Soldier's mom protests near Bush's ranch

[Nxt2Hvn]

Look better to who?  Bush doesn't have to impress anyone by saying things to make him look better...

Dear god may you be with us and help us all.............. Bush doesn’t need to impress anyone????????

Our Father which art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive them that trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation. But deliver us from evil. Amen.................

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WOW

Hey .. if it helps....

[jeceris]

I don't think Bush should meet with her because it might be dangerous for him. She is obviously distraught.

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and Psychotic... anyone who will camp out day in and day out, outside in the Texas heat can't be all there!!

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YES!

WELL DONE!

that of course being the next course of action with something like this, make the validity of her cause seem ridiculous by accusing her of having mental illness.

right out of the oreilly handbook.

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I'm not trying to validate anything... I think she should be charged with trespassing and harassment whether she has a mental illness or not

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whaaaaa???

why are you questioning whether she has a mental illness.

i don't know her, but my guess is she doesn't.

my point is, when one side, and be it right or left, cause i've seen the left do this to, decide to undermine someones beliefs or stance, they call into question their mental status, which more times than not, is quite allright.

[Babs]

You are making me laugh. I didn't do all that jeceris. I am worried about safety for the president and for anyone, if you get right down to it. If this wasn't a political deal, I would still be worried that something could happen because she is obviously distraught.

....safety first.

[iaapac]

I see all this talk about protecting America. First of all, Iraq did not have arms of mass destruction. That was a lie. If they did have arms of mass destruction, they had no mechanism for delivering them. Where was this imaginary threat to America? How was Iraq tied to 9/11? But Saudi Arabia (home of bin Laden, of course) was tied to the attack but when did Bush take action against them? At any rate, would someone please explain to me how this business of protecting America can be justified?

[Faeden]

Babs

You are making me laugh. I didn't do all that jeceris. I am worried about safety for the president and for anyone, if you get right down to it. If this wasn't a political deal, I would still be worried that something could happen because she is obviously distraught. 

....safety first.

How is the lady going to be a threat to Bush? He is going to have body guards all around him, and she will be searched, the most she can do is smash him over the head with her hand bag now that would make for good TV

And yes accusing people that are anti Bush as mentally ill is such a common tactic, and a pretty low one at that.

All the best

Faeden

[iaapac]

When comparing this woman's behavior with that of George Bush, perhaps she is the one needing protection.

[Faeden]

When comparing this woman's behavior with that of George Bush, perhaps she is the one needing protection.

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Cant argue with that. But I am sure some will have a good go...

[Celumnaz]

inanity is inanity, I can't argue against it

[Babs]

Babs

You are making me laugh. I didn't do all that jeceris. I am worried about safety for the president and for anyone, if you get right down to it. If this wasn't a political deal, I would still be worried that something could happen because she is obviously distraught. 

....safety first.

How is the lady going to be a threat to Bush? He is going to have body guards all around him, and she will be searched, the most she can do is smash him over the head with her hand bag now that would make for good TV

And yes accusing people that are anti Bush as mentally ill is such a common tactic, and a pretty low one at that.

All the best

Faeden

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I didn't accuse her of being mentally ill. She is grieving, I thought. You know something I don't?

You never know what people will do when they are grieving and encouraged to spew their hatred against the president, or the current administration, or say that the president killed her son. It could be a dangerous situation.

Think about it.

[Faeden]

I was not directing the mentally ill thing to you babs, I was agreeing with what the member who brought it up said. Sorry I should have been clearer.

I am thinking about it, and I cant see how Bush's life would be in danger just by meeting the women, she is not out for his blood, just an explanation, and as I said there will be security all over the place, and she would have been searched. At the most she would be mad, and raise her voice, I am sure he can handle that, being he is used to world leaders shouting at him.

All the best

Faeden

[+joc]

The only good thing from the war is that Saddam was taken out, but the negative out weigh the positive, being that because of the war America and the UK are now hated by even more nations, which will only cause more conflicts in the future.

A. Easy for you to say because your mother and sister weren't part of the rape rooms and your father and brother weren't taken out and castrated and shot.

B. I don't give a damn who hates us. The terrorists obviously hated us before we went into Iraq. Ever hear of 9/11?

The years of putting our finger in the air and seeing who is going to hate us if we do such and such were over when Clinton left the White house.

C. Illegal war? My ass. The UN voted on the sanctions and the UN voted for the war.

Go kiss a communist for me.

[saladins follower]

man most of these kids go to the army for a free college scholar ship Thats very sad to hear that most of them are dying... What are we still doing in Iraq,but the media just shows the one sided-story -_- but the german soldiers are very cool

tho and u dont understand , the women lost it when bush said that her son died for a noble cause.. What noble cause is that really ? The one for fighting for a

cause thats already done ? The cause so that the price of gas could go down ? The cause for a education thats limited to people.. some people are just ignorant right joc? ur not doing research dumb as* jus a lil joke

The U.N. wasnt voting for the war on iraq... whered u get that information from

Edited August 13, 2005 by saladins follower

[JayRob303]

Simply stated...we need to get our boys home.

For those of you not in the US...If it was put to a vote by the people of the US, chances are, we would pull out of that hell-hole as fast as possible. I believe that Bush is wrong for remaining there with forces...it might be different if the government in power over there actually asked the UN for assistance...

Just for clarification...I support our troops, not the decision to be there...

Edited August 13, 2005 by JayRob303

[saladins follower]

i agree wit ya

[JayRob303]

I do agree with the decision to remove Saddam and his 'political party' from power though...but the jobs done...lets go home.

[+joc]

I do agree with the decision to remove Saddam and his 'political party' from power though...but the jobs done...lets go home.

The job isn't done! What is the point in even going in there and removing Sadaam if we are just going to then let it fall to Al Queda? When the job is done...and it is getting closer everyday...we will pull out.

man most of these kids go to the army for a free college scholar ship

Wrong! There is no Free Scholarship for joining the military. Where did you get that nonsense? The truth is that most join because they don't have many options other than the military. But they all know the inherent danger associated with being in the military.

Thats very sad to hear that most of them are dying...

Wrong again! Most of them are NOT dying. With a force of around 150,000 a death toll of 2000 is not really that astonishing. Actually it is. If you consider that going in the Casualty Estimates were in the tens of thousands.

And....do you have any idea how many soldiers died in the first day of assaults on Iwo Jima?

and u dont understand , the women lost it when bush said that her son died for a noble cause.. What noble cause is that really ? The one for fighting for a

cause thats already done ? The cause so that the price of gas could go down ? The cause for a education thats limited to people.. some people are just ignorant right joc? 

Well, judging from your post I would have to say yes, some people are.

Edited August 13, 2005 by joc

[JayRob303]

I do agree with the decision to remove Saddam and his 'political party' from power though...but the jobs done...lets go home.

The job isn't done! What is the point in even going in there and removing Sadaam if we are just going to then let it fall to Al Queda? When the job is done...and it is getting closer everyday...we will pull out.

We removed the dictatorship, gave the country to the people, are helping them rebuild it, and assisting in establishing a democratic government. What else can we do?

We can't 'babysit' this country for the rest of our existance. They don't want us there, and to tell the truth, neither do our soldiers...well...most of them. How do I know (see below)? Their government may be overthrown in a matter of months...then what...we go back in and do it all over again?

I know it's just a matter of time before we pull out...but when will that point be...

I WAS THERE! AND IT SUCKED! IT'S FREAKIN' HOT THERE, AND REALLY FREAKIN' COLD AT NIGHT! I LOST A LOT OF FRIENDS OVER THERE, NOT JUST TO COMBAT, BUT HEAT AND ACCIDENTS! Here's a story for you... The XO of Delta Company wanted to 'patrol' a recently recon'd area, however, the topography hadn't come in. There were 5 men in the Bradley including the XO, that DROVE OFF A CLIFFED SAND DUNE. The XO was in the gunner hatch (sticking out the top)when the Bradley went into a roll...he was cut in half. 2 of the others inside of the Bradley died, the other 2 were injured, and evac'ed off. I was in Echo Company, and when your over there, you really get to know your Battalion, and played cards with a couple of the guys inside...so I can honestly say IT SUCKED OVER THERE!

[Faeden]

Hi joc

To be honest, going on your past posts I do not really care what you have to say, going on you make jokes about dead people, and do not seem to have a concept of your rudeness.

A. Easy for you to say because your mother and sister weren't part of the rape rooms and your father and brother weren't taken out and castrated and shot.

Where your mother or sister part of the rape rooms? And where your father and bother castrated and shot? If so I am sorry, but if they where not you have no right to use this as an example because that makes you as unenlightened as I am.

B. I don't give a damn who hates us.

And you wonder why people are turning against Americans like you. arrogant. Ignorant. and could not give a damn for anyone unless they share your beliefs. its the way of people that think like you that give Americans a bad name, I give a damn who hates me, because there has to be a reason for it instead of playing ignorant I try and learn. You do not have to like those that hate you but your not going to ever get anywhere with your attitude.

The terrorists obviously hated us before we went into Iraq. Ever hear of 9/11?

Yes pretty evil wasn’t it? Ever heard of the first war on Iraq?

C. Illegal war? My ass. The UN voted on the sanctions and the UN voted for the war.

Go kiss a communist for me.

I am glad you ended on this as it sums up your ideas perfectly.... You might want to do some research and come back when you have a slight understanding on things.

I do not wish to kiss any communists, as they are no different from republicans, they both repel me...

All the best

Faeden

[Babs]

I don't know if there is cause to criticize Mrs. Sheehan or not because I have not kept up on all that has happened.  I do, however, want everyone to note that there are other mothers attending this protest, such as Sherry Bohlen and Rebecca Bahr from Scottsdale, Arizona and mothers from Iowa and others . . . . all asking the same basic question, "Why should our sons be exposed to the threat of death in a war that is not justifiable, is not sanctioned by the world's community of nations and was based upon misinformation and outright lies from the administration?"

The rest of the opinions about wanting publicity, writing books or appearing in MMs next movie are all superficial until the question is answered by GWB, "Why should these young men die when there is no justifiable cause?"

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iaapac....that is just a bunch of democractic hype that woman is listening to. Now that she has lost her son she is easy pickins for the democrats to start a major problem for Bush. Get out!...this is political now.

[wunarmdscissor]

Yes pretty evil wasn’t it? Ever heard of the first war on Iraq?

oh yeah you mean that war that was unanimously backed by the UN security council.

[iaapac]

Babs, and your words justifies this invasion? I agree, this is political. But if you cannot justify this invasion, then you cannot justify this young man's, or any young man's, death on a foreign field for political interests.

And joc, perhaps the job isn't done but it is not your job. It is not the job or the right of the United States to determine which countries have dictators and need intervention. If the realm of a dictator is so horrible that it deserves attention, then that is the decision of the United Nations, not the United States.

Even when Hussein was in power, Amnesty International listed Kim Jong of North Korea and King Fahd and Crown Prince Abdullah, Saudi Arabia as greater and more horrendous dictators than Hussein. So why do we have this marvelous alliance with Saudi Arabia? Why does that international friendship exist when 11 of the 13 terrorists attacking the World Trade Towers were from Saudi? None, incidentally, were from Iraq.

What job isn't finished? An illegal, unjust invasion isn't finished? And if you had gotten killed over there, I hope to God your mother would have been protesting the loss of a son for no justifyable reason.

[iaapac]

Excuse me for the addition . . . .

But Babs, no one can start a major problem for Bush. Bush IS the major problem.

[Faeden]

Hi wunarmdscissor

oh yeah you mean that war that was unanimously backed by the UN security council.

I was talking about the second, and so was Joc when debating about Iraq. I only brought up the first war after he said that the UN supported the second (which it didn’t). What is your point wunarmdscissor? I never said the UN did not support the first. I brought up the first because Joc used Sep 11th as a way of saying people hated America before the second war, so I brought up the first as a example of it going back further than that, because of American actions. I did not say the UN did not support the first. Why you brought that up I do not know, maybe you did not read the conversations correctly?

All the best

Faeden

[Babs]

One of the beauties of being an expatriate is that it is no longer important what people think or what opinions they have about your decision to live elsewhere.  Even so, the stereotype image of Mexico has kept it free from an invasion of Americans and I am grateful for that.

First of all, the economy is not the disaster U.S. politicians like people to believe.  I see more new commercial construction here than in the U.S.  I know many cities here that have a better economy than say, Detroit or some of the steel cities in Indiana and Pennsylvania.  New car sales are at a respectable level here and restaurants are full.

What troubles Mexico is the fact that its wealth is placed in 20% of its population and 80% are poor.  There are efforts to correct that with a system of an almost-free college education and high levels of training in technology fields.  Already some changes can be seen.

As for me, I did my military service long ago so that wasn’t an issue.  I had lost faith in the government years before and started investing in foreign markets.  Increasing dividends while living in a much cheaper environment were a perfect combination.  And please don’t assert that my move was based on the economic advantages.  It wasn’t.  It was only that if you want to leave the U.S. and live in another nation, you need to plan on how you will survive.  That was my plan.

I saw the U.S. taking disastrous directions in regard to its economy.  The Clinton surplus was not totally expended because of 9/11, that’s bull.  But to revert the nation to a war economy while the people are slowly waking up to the fact that the war is unjust and unwarranted creates a conflict that will soon find its level of crisis. 

I travelled extensively and I could see the image of the United States and Americans diminish in almost all nations.  We were the aggressors who invaded nations that had not provoked attack in any form and did it while ignoring the collective voice of other nations within the world community.

I could see the decline of education, a growing poverty level, a much lower quality of life, higher levels of new business failures, escalating divorce rates, skyrocketing average debt levels per family, etc.  These are all symptoms of a nation in trouble and it exists as a subject of a government that forms no programs to resolve them.  A government that is drowning in self interests to the point that the best economic experts predict economic collapse within ten years.

I could not change anything.  Nor can you.  Given that situation, if someone wants quality of life, a nation dedicated to peace, a culture feeding upon family unity and a new direction for your personal existence,  being an expatriate is the only answer.

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There is so much here I don't know where to start. First off: are you of Mexican delineage or have in-law relatives who are Mexican? Were you born and raised in the U.S. and do you have Mexican heritage?

Leaving your country because of problems seems to be 'abandonment of ship' to me. And if you really wanted to leave the country you would have gone far and wide, not slip down to Mexico where you can jump, skip and be in the U.S. as soon as you cross that line. You aren't far, and therefore the psychological estrangement you would feel is much lessened...say as if you were in Germany. So, I don't really see you sacrificing that much by leaving hearth and home. You are still set up psychologically and don't have to suffer much homesickness or loss of family, as you said that even they are there with you.

Got to go, but I'd like to talk more about this subject. I totally disagree with you on the Iraq war and 911. You have a liberal view. We have to stay in Iraq as long as the terrorists do. Pure and simple. Blame the terrorists. We have the war contained, and the terrorists are popping out all over. The Iraqis' can't handle all of these guys and if we left the terrorists would begin their take-over. You know... of the world.

[Babs]

I do agree with the decision to remove Saddam and his 'political party' from power though...but the jobs done...lets go home.

The job isn't done! What is the point in even going in there and removing Sadaam if we are just going to then let it fall to Al Queda? When the job is done...and it is getting closer everyday...we will pull out.

We removed the dictatorship, gave the country to the people, are helping them rebuild it, and assisting in establishing a democratic government. What else can we do?

We can't 'babysit' this country for the rest of our existance. They don't want us there, and to tell the truth, neither do our soldiers...well...most of them. How do I know (see below)? Their government may be overthrown in a matter of months...then what...we go back in and do it all over again?

I know it's just a matter of time before we pull out...but when will that point be...

I WAS THERE! AND IT SUCKED! IT'S FREAKIN' HOT THERE, AND REALLY FREAKIN' COLD AT NIGHT! I LOST A LOT OF FRIENDS OVER THERE, NOT JUST TO COMBAT, BUT HEAT AND ACCIDENTS! Here's a story for you... The XO of Delta Company wanted to 'patrol' a recently recon'd area, however, the topography hadn't come in. There were 5 men in the Bradley including the XO, that DROVE OFF A CLIFFED SAND DUNE. The XO was in the gunner hatch (sticking out the top)when the Bradley went into a roll...he was cut in half. 2 of the others inside of the Bradley died, the other 2 were injured, and evac'ed off. I was in Echo Company, and when your over there, you really get to know your Battalion, and played cards with a couple of the guys inside...so I can honestly say IT SUCKED OVER THERE!

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I don't see us pulling out, like I said a few years back, "we are going to be there a long time". You said, yourself, that the government will be overtaken in a matter of months...guess by who? Not a good example to the world to allow the terrorists to take over a region.

We will stay there til the mission is done, till those dang terrorists stop breeding.