Soldier's mom protests near Bush's ranch

[Nxt2Hvn]

Kabutarian....Kabu, you have a lot to learn.

799136[/snapback]

Yeah Babs... I just started ignoring her.. after I looked and saw how young she is.... lots to learn

[Babs]

Nxt..

[sanchera1978]

Thats probably the best thing to do just ignore people with opposing views. Age has nothing to do with it. Someone thats 40 can be alot more stupid then someone who 15 it just depends on the mentality of the person.

Your not going to have to different opinions magically agree. Each person uses their own logic.. some people's logic/common sense is better than others.

Edited August 19, 2005 by sanchera1978

[Kabutarian]

Mmm, more personal shots. I expected better from people trying to be taken seriously, but I guess with Republicans, it's to be expected.

Still, if I have so much to learn, then you should have no trouble verbally annihilating me, which you have yet to do

[Babs]

We have, you just don't know it.

[Babs]

Some of you guys are way too uptight. Relax and enjoy life. Just because someone doesnt agree with your views doesnt make them stupid. Everybody has their own thoughts and opinions and we are all allowed to express those thoughts however we wish as long as we dont harm anyone else or infringe on their rights. Thats what makes this country so great but it looks like people are starting to lose all sense of reason.  Obviously this country is divided right now half support bush and his war and the other half dont.. We need to respect each others views before there ends up being a civil war.  I know alot of you dont think this could happen but if enough people believe in their cause anything is possible.

797922[/snapback]

sanchera wrote:

Some of you guys are way too uptight. Relax and enjoy life.

....I agree, you and Kabu should lighten up.

[Kabutarian]

We have, you just don't know it.

799542[/snapback]

Show me where.

[jeceris]

Some of you guys are way too uptight. Relax and enjoy life. Just because someone doesnt agree with your views doesnt make them stupid. Everybody has their own thoughts and opinions and we are all allowed to express those thoughts however we wish as long as we dont harm anyone else or infringe on their rights. Thats what makes this country so great but it looks like people are starting to lose all sense of reason.   Obviously this country is divided right now half support bush and his war and the other half dont.. We need to respect each others views before there ends up being a civil war.  I know alot of you dont think this could happen but if enough people believe in their cause anything is possible.

797922[/snapback]

sanchera wrote:

Some of you guys are way too uptight. Relax and enjoy life.

....I agree, you and Kabu should lighten up.

799599[/snapback]

geez. i am done with debating this topic, although with you babs, it's never so much a debate, as a "i told you so" and "oh yeah" kinda spat.

you don't know when to lay off, you always take it personal, and YOU come across as the little kid, your age is not at all indicitive of the juvenile banter you spew, with no references to back up any of your claims.

agree to disagree, and move on, BUT DO try to lighten up.

[Babs]

Some of you guys are way too uptight. Relax and enjoy life. Just because someone doesnt agree with your views doesnt make them stupid. Everybody has their own thoughts and opinions and we are all allowed to express those thoughts however we wish as long as we dont harm anyone else or infringe on their rights. Thats what makes this country so great but it looks like people are starting to lose all sense of reason.   Obviously this country is divided right now half support bush and his war and the other half dont.. We need to respect each others views before there ends up being a civil war.  I know alot of you dont think this could happen but if enough people believe in their cause anything is possible.

797922[/snapback]

sanchera wrote:

Some of you guys are way too uptight. Relax and enjoy life.

....I agree, you and Kabu should lighten up.

799599[/snapback]

geez. i am done with debating this topic, although with you babs, it's never so much a debate, as a "i told you so" and "oh yeah" kinda spat.

you don't know when to lay off, you always take it personal, and YOU come across as the little kid, your age is not at all indicitive of the juvenile banter you spew, with no references to back up any of your claims.

agree to disagree, and move on, BUT DO try to lighten up.

799640[/snapback]

Jee wiz. I don't take it personally, I thought you did. That's always my banter or banner , "Don't take this personally."

I am having a good time and some of you get all uptight. Just like little sanchera was saying.

Well, let's get back to topic, just let this go; you guys are too serious. Of course, if I was 'a liberal lefty', I'd be worried too.

[Mekorig]

babs, you are an endless fountain of wonder and laughs.....

[Babs]

Thank you Mekorig.

[Mekorig]

[iaapac]

Much of the banter we see here is because much of the pro-Bush, pro-War, pro-conservative, pro-gung-ho-America attitude is the result of the lack of exposure to the world. It is much like the man featured on BBC who was sitting in his little town in Minnesota and had never been more than 200 miles from his home ranting that America is the best nation in the world. Without experiences that permit you to have opinions based upon comparisons . . . . real life comparisons, not the right or left news media or lies straight from Capitol Hill . . . . but opinions formed from a worldly view, not an opinion reaching as far as the continental limits of the United States.

To the rest of the world, George Bush is a political idiot maintaining a middle finger foreign policy with no regard for the welfare of the world, much less his own people. Because of Bush, the international opinion of the United States is that it is now the most dangerous nation on earth and that the tragedy of the wTC has been manipulated and exploited to impose an expansionist philosophy upon the rest of the world.

Many Europeans believe, and with sound logic to support it, that Bush and his clones feared that the Euro would surpass the dollar and give Europe the role of financial leadership in the world. But if middle eastern oil could be controlled and nationalized (in the name of the U.S., of course) then the Euro could be devaluated and equally controlled.

Where some European nations were hungry for dollars gained from U.S. tourists, today those same nations solicit tourism from other nations and prefer that Americans stay at home. General Motors closed its plants in Germany because the market bottomed out for U.S. cars. A big part of American Airlines problems is the decline in European tourists to the United States.

"People don't want to go where they don't feel welcome," says Cathy Pelaez, chief operating officer of agency giant Liberty Travel. "Right now they don't feel very welcome in some European countries."

These situations were not caused by individual Americans but the individual suffers because he is considered to be a reflection of a government that cares little about world opinion, cares less about the welfare of the world and then wants the same world to believe them when they use the U.N. as an excuse to invade Iraq even though the U.N. refused to endorse the invasion. Now the world is listening to the same U.N. excuse being used in relation to Iran and the only people who believe it are those living in the U.S.

One Princeton historian said only, "Ulysses S. Grant will owe a big debt to George Bush when his second term ends. Grant will no longer be listed as the worst president in the history of the United States."

Now the bottom line question is whether or not we are citizens of this planet and if our concept of brotherhood is limited to those who were accidentally born in the United States? If anyone is intelligent enough to recognize that we have greater responsibilities to our world than our nation and that we have a responsibility to WORK TOGETHER for the common good, then we are starting toward the right track.

Those who cannot have this vision will, unfortunately, contribute to the problems created by Bush and support the destruction of lives and futures and perhaps a nation . . . . the United States.

[Babs]

I am not sucked in. You wouldn't, I hope, recommend that the average joe leave his country and take up life in another country, would you? I questioned your move before I knew anything about you. I assumed you were an average joe. (that's why I was asking for background) And before anyone jumps on average joe, when I say average joe, I am not talking average intelligence. I am talking 'travel experience' and living outside his country for extended periods of time. The average person attempting to leave his country and live in a far-off land will bring immense damage upon himself (and his family). It screws with your psyche. I am saying it really messes you up_ scars you for a lifetime. Not to mention the guilt when you leave your native land and your family and all your  responsibilities there.

Anyway that was my point and what I was getting at. Could you give me a definition of ex-patriot?

795487[/snapback]

iaapac, could you give me a definition?

[Babs]

iaapac, you talk about taking a realistic view of war, but you, yourself, don't have one. All war has civilian casualties. And let's put the blame where it belongs. On terrorists.  They hide out amongst civilians.

795510[/snapback]

I thought I would re-post this.

[sanchera1978]

Babs Quote

"Just like little sanchera was saying.""

Wow Babs you dont know when to shut up do you? I try to be civil with you yet you still talk trash... The only thing you know what to do when someone doesnt agree with you is resort to name calling and childish behavior. How old are you again? Its to bad that after all these years of living on this planet you still haven't fully matured. I would expect your behavior from a teen but not from someone as old as you... I luv how you cant come up with anything to counter iaapac's post so you resort to repeating yourself.... your really showing your intelligence there keep up the good work.

[iaapac]

I am not sucked in. You wouldn't, I hope, recommend that the average joe leave his country and take up life in another country, would you? I questioned your move before I knew anything about you. I assumed you were an average joe. (that's why I was asking for background) And before anyone jumps on average joe, when I say average joe, I am not talking average intelligence. I am talking 'travel experience' and living outside his country for extended periods of time. The average person attempting to leave his country and live in a far-off land will bring immense damage upon himself (and his family). It screws with your psyche. I am saying it really messes you up_ scars you for a lifetime. Not to mention the guilt when you leave your native land and your family and all your  responsibilities there.

Anyway that was my point and what I was getting at. Could you give me a definition of ex-patriot?

795487[/snapback]

iaapac, could you give me a definition?

801406[/snapback]

I would recommend that anyone who cannot find happiness or his personal destiny in his native land travel with the goal of finding a place where he can live with contentment and success. I cannot understand or accept this concept of guilt because one decides to leave the land where he was born. No one selects where they are born and if they choose to leave, that should be a personal choice without criticism from those who stay because they want to, or as I often hear from visiting Americans, don't have the courage to make the move.

Having moved and made the decision to remain outside of the U.S., I am totally unable to detect any "damage" that it has caused me. Friends who visit me from the states don't seem to detect any differences in me other than I am happier.

I will say that I experienced some sacrifices but damages? On the contrary, when tourists come to my village, the most common comments I hear are, "Tell me how I can do what you've done." It's easy. Learn a new language, new food, new music, a new culture, accept social mores and do harm to no one. If those principles cause "damage," then I cannot understand how.

The idea that living abroad "screws up your psyche" must come from some experience you have had that I have not. I know that I am certainly not "scarred for a lifetime," by living in Mexico, rather, I have been able to heal many scars here and to forget their causes.

As for a definition, the dictionary says "1. To send into exile.

2. To remove (oneself) from residence in one's native land.

v.intr.

1. To give up residence in one's homeland.

2. To renounce allegiance to one's homeland.

n. (-t, -t)

1. One who has taken up residence in a foreign country.

2. One who has renounced one's native land.

adj. (-t, -t)

Residing in a foreign country; expatriated"

I see it as something much bigger than that. I see an expatriate as the person with a sense of value to his life that seeks the best environment for it. It is a person who learns something about his planet and understands that a homeland is not an anchor but a launching pad. It is to explore, learn, grow and live.

[PadawanOsswe]

Much of the banter we see here is because much of the pro-Bush, pro-War, pro-conservative, pro-gung-ho-America attitude is the result of the lack of exposure to the world.  It is much like the man featured on BBC who was sitting in his little town in Minnesota and had never been more than 200 miles from his home ranting that America is the best nation in the world.  Without experiences that permit you to have opinions based upon comparisons . . . . real life comparisons, not the right or left news media or lies straight from Capitol Hill . . . . but opinions formed from a worldly view, not an opinion reaching as far as the continental limits of the United States.

To the rest of the world, George Bush is a political idiot maintaining a middle finger foreign policy with no regard for the welfare of the world, much less his own people.  Because of Bush, the international opinion of the United States is that it is now the most dangerous nation on earth and that the tragedy of the wTC has been manipulated and exploited to impose an expansionist philosophy upon the rest of the world.

Many Europeans believe, and with sound logic to support it, that Bush and his clones feared that the Euro would surpass the dollar and give Europe the role of financial leadership in the world.  But if middle eastern oil could be controlled and nationalized (in the name of the U.S., of course) then the Euro could be devaluated and equally controlled.

Where some European nations were hungry for dollars gained from U.S. tourists, today those same nations solicit tourism from other nations and prefer that Americans stay at home.  General Motors closed its plants in Germany because the market bottomed out for U.S. cars.  A big part of American Airlines problems is the decline in European tourists to the United States. 

"People don't want to go where they don't feel welcome," says Cathy Pelaez, chief operating officer of agency giant Liberty Travel. "Right now they don't feel very welcome in some European countries."

These situations were not caused by individual Americans but the individual suffers because he is considered to be a reflection of a government that cares little about world opinion, cares less about the welfare of the world and then wants the same world to believe them when they use the U.N. as an excuse to invade Iraq even though the U.N. refused to endorse the invasion.  Now the world is listening to the same U.N. excuse being used in relation to Iran and the only people who believe it are those living in the U.S.

One Princeton historian said only, "Ulysses S. Grant will owe a big debt to George Bush when his second term ends.  Grant will no longer be listed as the worst president in the history of the United States."

Now the bottom line question is whether or not we are citizens of this planet and if our concept of brotherhood is limited to those who were accidentally born in the United States?  If anyone is intelligent enough to recognize that we have greater responsibilities to our world than our nation and that we have a responsibility to WORK TOGETHER for the common good, then we are starting toward the right track. 

Those who cannot have this vision will, unfortunately, contribute to the problems created by Bush and support the destruction of lives and futures and perhaps a nation . . . . the United States.

801264[/snapback]

hmm, interesting that you leave america, settle in mexico,and yet still rant about american polotics.

btw who are you to tel us that our views are wrong? please, enlighten us all knowing god of truth.

[jeceris]

who is he? he's another person who's allowed to post his opinions.

who are you? the all knowing god of what can be posted?

[PadawanOsswe]

nope, I'm just an average joe that is tired of liberals telling people that they are wrong. people can go ahead and express their opinions. but once they start acting like they are omniciant is where I draw the line!

Edited August 21, 2005 by PadawanOsswe

[jeceris]

i take it you meant omnipotent

[PadawanOsswe]

no, omniscient is the word I mean to use. it means according to webster's dictionary

"having infinite awareness, understanding, and insight...possessed of universal or complete knowledge"

[Wings of Selkhet]

I just read all 20 pages of this thread and I am amazed by the comments I've read. A lot of you claim that the media is biased and that everyone you know doesn't support this woman, that more of America supports Bush than not, that everyone you know agrees with you and "the liberal media" doesn't portray America's opinions fairly.

I don't know what parts of American you people live in, but where I live, a normal suburb outside of Chicago, nearly everyone supports Sheehan and her protest. Either you're living extremely sheltered lives or I am, and somehow, I really doubt that I'm living a sheltered life 20 minutes away from the third largest city in the country. The media is not warping the situation. People across the country really do support this woman and people across the country really are sick of the situation in Iraq and the lack of answers we've received.

And by the way - believe it or not, it's not only America's opinion of the President that matters, it's also the world opinion. I recently stayed in Germany for a month and people were comparing Bush to Hitler. Now, I don't agree with that comparison at all, but it just shows that the rest of the world is *not* pleased with the way America is acting.

We don't rule the world. It's not only America's opinion that matters. Believe it or not, we have to coexist with hundreds of other nations on this planet and if we keep up with our superior, bullying attitude, we're not going to be around for much longer.

America hasn't even existed for 300 years yet. We've got a long way to go.

[wunarmdscissor]

some of the comments about this woman in this thread are a joke. she is an ameircan citizen , you pride yourselves in being the "land of the free" , she has every right to protest/.

[bathory]

some of the comments about this woman in this thread are a joke. she is an ameircan citizen , you pride yourselves in being the "land of the free" , she has every right to protest/.

802008[/snapback]

by the same token, they have the 'right' to say what they want too:P