Babs Posted August 21, 2005 #301 Share Posted August 21, 2005 (edited) iaapac...you are not a realist. You are living in a dream world.... when are you going to come down to earth? I don't listen to Rush and I voted for Gore, and I will be voting for Hillary next. I voted for Bush this last time and Cheney is the man! After 911 things changed. I have traveled and lived outside my country and know the dangers waiting outside my nation. You are irresponsible in telling the average joe to go off and live in another country. Most people aren't set up like you-- your temperament or intellectual life-- and they haven't traveled extensively or lived outside the US. If a person were to leave their country and live in a far-off land, they would undergo severe psychological trauma. It would scar them, possibly for a lifetime. What you have done, I wouldn't recommend. I don't think it is noble, either ...In fact isn't there another word for it? Edited August 21, 2005 by Babs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekorig Posted August 21, 2005 #302 Share Posted August 21, 2005 iaapac...you are not a realist. You are living in a dream world.... when are you going to come down to earth? I don't listen to Rush and I voted for Gore, and I will be voting for Hillary next. I voted for Bush this last time and Cheney is the man! After 911 things changed. I have traveled and lived outside my country and know the dangers waiting outside my nation. You are irresponsible in telling the average joe to go off and live in another country. Most people aren't set up like you-- your temperament or intellectual life-- and they haven't traveled extensively or lived outside the US. If a person were to leave their country and live in a far-off land, they would undergo severe psychological trauma. It would scar them, possibly for a lifetime. What you have done, I wouldn't recommend. I don't think it is noble, either ...In fact isn't there another word for it? 802514[/snapback] WHAT? My brother lives in foregein land, and qork in another country ffrom time to time (spain and norway to be corrrect). IS he trautized? no. Almost all the people i know that lives in another country diferent of where they born live in a perfect way. An small minority feels a little lonely, b ut they adapt. I know people from argentina living in japan, people from the USA living in Russia, Russians living in Kenya, etc etc, and no one get asevere psicological trauma. Maybe you had a severe "siege mentality" and belives that everynone must live in their respective country because your type of razoning cant see more than that idea. Make a serious travel (no Canada, but Argentina, some african country, some asian country), open your mind a little more, and then talk about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmgspycat Posted August 22, 2005 #303 Share Posted August 22, 2005 If you want to see a list of her questions to Bush, go to Representative John Conyers site. http://johnconyers.campaignoffice.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babs Posted August 22, 2005 #304 Share Posted August 22, 2005 iaapac...you are not a realist. You are living in a dream world.... when are you going to come down to earth? I don't listen to Rush and I voted for Gore, and I will be voting for Hillary next. I voted for Bush this last time and Cheney is the man! After 911 things changed. I have traveled and lived outside my country and know the dangers waiting outside my nation. You are irresponsible in telling the average joe to go off and live in another country. Most people aren't set up like you-- your temperament or intellectual life-- and they haven't traveled extensively or lived outside the US. If a person were to leave their country and live in a far-off land, they would undergo severe psychological trauma. It would scar them, possibly for a lifetime. What you have done, I wouldn't recommend. I don't think it is noble, either ...In fact isn't there another word for it? 802514[/snapback] WHAT? My brother lives in foregein land, and qork in another country ffrom time to time (spain and norway to be corrrect). IS he trautized? no. Almost all the people i know that lives in another country diferent of where they born live in a perfect way. An small minority feels a little lonely, b ut they adapt. I know people from argentina living in japan, people from the USA living in Russia, Russians living in Kenya, etc etc, and no one get asevere psicological trauma. Maybe you had a severe "siege mentality" and belives that everynone must live in their respective country because your type of razoning cant see more than that idea. Make a serious travel (no Canada, but Argentina, some african country, some asian country), open your mind a little more, and then talk about it. 802806[/snapback] I have done serious travel. I have also done Canada and Mexico. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekorig Posted August 22, 2005 #305 Share Posted August 22, 2005 Other than Canada (too much liek the USA9 and Mexico (i concede there, its diferent to the USA), what other place have you went? I have been in Uruguay, Spain, the UK, Mexico and Japan (only two weeks invited by a friend). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babs Posted August 22, 2005 #306 Share Posted August 22, 2005 (edited) England, Ireland, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Iceland, Nassau and the Bahamas. Mexico, Canada.... I want to go to Jerusalem (Israel) and Italy, but I think it is too dangerous. I haven't traveled out of the country for a good many years, too dangerous for me. I spend a lot of time down in the keys...Florida keys, the islands, you know where Ernest Hemmingway lived? iaapac brought Hemmingway up. Been to quite a few states: from New York to San Francisco, L.A. to Miami. ...Miami, Florida... and many more states in-between. Going to Montana and New Mexico this summer; might even visit Colorado and see sanchera. Edited August 22, 2005 by Babs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babs Posted August 22, 2005 #307 Share Posted August 22, 2005 Mekorig tells me to travel a little more and open my mind. Mekorig, it looks like I have opened my mind a little more than you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleever1 Posted August 22, 2005 #308 Share Posted August 22, 2005 CRAWFORD, Texas (AP) -- The angry mother of a fallen U.S. soldier staged a protest near President Bush's ranch Saturday, demanding an accounting from Bush of how he has conducted the war in Iraq. Cindy Sheehan holds pictures of her son as she leads an anti-war march near President Bush's ranch. Supported by more than 50 demonstrators who chanted, "W. killed her son!" Cindy Sheehan told reporters: "I want to ask the president, 'Why did you kill my son? What did my son die for?"' Sheehan, 48, didn't get to see Bush, but did talk about 45 minutes with national security adviser Steve Hadley and deputy White House chief of staff Joe Hagin, who went out to hear her concerns. Appreciative of their attention, yet undaunted, Sheehan said she planned to continue her roadside vigil, except for a few breaks, until she gets to talk to Bush. Her son, Casey, 24, was killed in Sadr City, Iraq, on April 4, 2004. He was an Army specialist, a Humvee mechanic. "They (the advisers) said we are in Iraq because they believed Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction, that the world's a better place with Saddam gone and that we're making the world a safer place with what we're doing over there," Sheehan said in a telephone interview after the meeting. "They were very respectful. They were nice men. I told them Iraq was not a threat to the United States and that now people are dead for nothing. I told them I wouldn't leave until I talked to George Bush." She said Hagin told her, "I want to assure you that he (Bush) really does care." "And I said if he does care, why doesn't he come out and talk to me." Sheehan arrived in Crawford aboard a bus painted red, white and blue and emblazoned with the words, "Impeachment Tour." Sheehan, from Vacaville, California, had been attending a Veterans for Peace convention in Dallas. The bus, trailed by about 20 cars of protesters and reporters, drove at about 15 mph toward Bush's ranch. After several miles, they parked the vehicles and began to march, in stifling heat, farther down the narrow country road. Flanked by miles of pasture, Sheehan spoke with reporters while clutching two photographs, one of her son in uniform, and the other, a baby picture, when he was seven months old. She said she decided to come to Crawford a few days ago after Bush said that fallen U.S. troops had died for a noble cause and that the mission must be completed. "I want to ask the president, `Why did you kill my son? What did my son die for?" she said, her voice cracking with emotion. "Last week, you said my son died for a noble cause' and I want to ask him what that noble cause is?" White House spokesman Trent Duffy said response that Bush also wants the troops to return home safely. "Many of the hundreds of families the president has met with know their loved one died for a noble cause and that the best way to honor their sacrifice is to complete the mission," Duffy said. "It is a message the president has heard time and again from those he has met with and comforted. Like all Americans, he wants the troops home as soon as possible." The group marched about a half-mile before local law enforcement officials stopped them at a bend in the road, still four to five miles from the ranch's entrance. Capt. Kenneth Vanek of the McLennan County Sheriff's Office said the group was stopped because some marchers ignored instructions to walk in the ditch beside the road, not on the road. "If they won't cooperate, we won't," Vanek said. From Here 776709[/snapback] That womans son is undoubtedly rolling in his grave. Aftr he died in the service of his country by his own choice and his mother is shamelessly playing the oh poor me card, apparently for the her 15 minutes of fame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmgspycat Posted August 22, 2005 #309 Share Posted August 22, 2005 How could you say that? As if you know...or know what she is going through...Im sick of people like you...no brains...no heart...mindless zombies that do not think or feel. You fall into Rush Limbaughs category of jackasses that try to demonize this woman who lost her son. I very much think she deserves answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekorig Posted August 22, 2005 #310 Share Posted August 22, 2005 Mekorig tells me to travel a little more and open my mind. Mekorig, it looks like I have opened my mind a little more than you. 803013[/snapback] Well, you dont appear it. Your coments in the las year (?) you have been in the forum, shows a great lack of understanding in international politics and other countries points of view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wunarmdscissor Posted August 22, 2005 #311 Share Posted August 22, 2005 so its too dangerous for americans in the uk and other european countres. yeah cos our countries are rife with hate attacks on americans your probably safer in the uk walking down yer average street than in america Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkyburd Posted August 22, 2005 #312 Share Posted August 22, 2005 (edited) Hmmm, interesting story. My opinion is that it's tragic that this woman has lost her son; she will live with that pain the rest of her life. However, he did sign up for the military and knew he would be in the line of fire. I also think its ridiculous to demand answers from the president, who has a thousand other things to do in actually running this country (along with being a dumbass half the time ). But I dunno for sure, I've never lost a child. I would imagine your life would come to a halt if you lost your son or daughter... Edited August 22, 2005 by Kismit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babs Posted August 22, 2005 #313 Share Posted August 22, 2005 Mekorig tells me to travel a little more and open my mind. Mekorig, it looks like I have opened my mind a little more than you. 803013[/snapback] Well, you dont appear it. Your coments in the las year (?) you have been in the forum, shows a great lack of understanding in international politics and other countries points of view. 803446[/snapback] Right, according to who ....you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babs Posted August 22, 2005 #314 Share Posted August 22, 2005 (edited) iaapac...you are not a realist. You are living in a dream world.... when are you going to come down to earth? I don't listen to Rush and I voted for Gore, and I will be voting for Hillary next. I voted for Bush this last time and Cheney is the man! After 911 things changed. I have traveled and lived outside my country and know the dangers waiting outside my nation. You are irresponsible in telling the average joe to go off and live in another country. Most people aren't set up like you-- your temperament or intellectual life-- and they haven't traveled extensively or lived outside the US. If a person were to leave their country and live in a far-off land, they would undergo severe psychological trauma. It would scar them, possibly for a lifetime. What you have done, I wouldn't recommend. I don't think it is noble, either ...In fact isn't there another word for it? 802514[/snapback] WHAT? My brother lives in foregein land, and qork in another country ffrom time to time (spain and norway to be corrrect). IS he trautized? no. Almost all the people i know that lives in another country diferent of where they born live in a perfect way. An small minority feels a little lonely, b ut they adapt. I know people from argentina living in japan, people from the USA living in Russia, Russians living in Kenya, etc etc, and no one get asevere psicological trauma. Maybe you had a severe "siege mentality" and belives that everynone must live in their respective country because your type of razoning cant see more than that idea. Make a serious travel (no Canada, but Argentina, some african country, some asian country), open your mind a little more, and then talk about it. 802806[/snapback] I have done serious travel. I have also done Canada and Mexico. 802892[/snapback] Yeah, Canadian border patrol don't really care for Americans coming in. This was years ago, mine you (something tells me it is the same today). Everyone else was very nice (Montreal, Quebec and out in- the-wilds ). Edited August 22, 2005 by Kismit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celumnaz Posted August 22, 2005 #315 Share Posted August 22, 2005 lol considering the sources... so many compliments! The lady's a tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iaapac Posted August 22, 2005 #316 Share Posted August 22, 2005 Much of the banter we see here is because much of the pro-Bush, pro-War, pro-conservative, pro-gung-ho-America attitude is the result of the lack of exposure to the world. It is much like the man featured on BBC who was sitting in his little town in Minnesota and had never been more than 200 miles from his home ranting that America is the best nation in the world. Without experiences that permit you to have opinions based upon comparisons . . . . real life comparisons, not the right or left news media or lies straight from Capitol Hill . . . . but opinions formed from a worldly view, not an opinion reaching as far as the continental limits of the United States. To the rest of the world, George Bush is a political idiot maintaining a middle finger foreign policy with no regard for the welfare of the world, much less his own people. Because of Bush, the international opinion of the United States is that it is now the most dangerous nation on earth and that the tragedy of the wTC has been manipulated and exploited to impose an expansionist philosophy upon the rest of the world. Many Europeans believe, and with sound logic to support it, that Bush and his clones feared that the Euro would surpass the dollar and give Europe the role of financial leadership in the world. But if middle eastern oil could be controlled and nationalized (in the name of the U.S., of course) then the Euro could be devaluated and equally controlled. Where some European nations were hungry for dollars gained from U.S. tourists, today those same nations solicit tourism from other nations and prefer that Americans stay at home. General Motors closed its plants in Germany because the market bottomed out for U.S. cars. A big part of American Airlines problems is the decline in European tourists to the United States. "People don't want to go where they don't feel welcome," says Cathy Pelaez, chief operating officer of agency giant Liberty Travel. "Right now they don't feel very welcome in some European countries." These situations were not caused by individual Americans but the individual suffers because he is considered to be a reflection of a government that cares little about world opinion, cares less about the welfare of the world and then wants the same world to believe them when they use the U.N. as an excuse to invade Iraq even though the U.N. refused to endorse the invasion. Now the world is listening to the same U.N. excuse being used in relation to Iran and the only people who believe it are those living in the U.S. One Princeton historian said only, "Ulysses S. Grant will owe a big debt to George Bush when his second term ends. Grant will no longer be listed as the worst president in the history of the United States." Now the bottom line question is whether or not we are citizens of this planet and if our concept of brotherhood is limited to those who were accidentally born in the United States? If anyone is intelligent enough to recognize that we have greater responsibilities to our world than our nation and that we have a responsibility to WORK TOGETHER for the common good, then we are starting toward the right track. Those who cannot have this vision will, unfortunately, contribute to the problems created by Bush and support the destruction of lives and futures and perhaps a nation . . . . the United States. 801264[/snapback] hmm, interesting that you leave america, settle in mexico,and yet still rant about american polotics. btw who are you to tel us that our views are wrong? please, enlighten us all knowing god of truth. 801720[/snapback] A 1953 Supreme Court decision declared that expatriates do not lose their rights to voice political opinion, vote or protest. It is always strange to me that thouse who beat the patriot drum the loudest are the first to want to deny inherent rights to others. I have never told you that your views are wrong or claimed to know it all. It is, however, fairly obvious that I know more than you. (middle finger) What is stranger is that while you think I am an arrogant know-it-all, I have always thought you were an intelligent, obserant person. I guess we were both wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmgspycat Posted August 23, 2005 #317 Share Posted August 23, 2005 IAAPAC...your my hero! Like your style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+joc Posted August 23, 2005 #318 Share Posted August 23, 2005 (edited) I don't listen to Rush and I voted for Gore, and I will be voting for Hillary next You do realize that you have just nullified any political argument that you have ever made? I very much think she deserves answers. She already talked to Bush in June...now she has caused her husband to divorce her and her mother to have a stroke...you should pity them not her Edited August 23, 2005 by joc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmgspycat Posted August 23, 2005 #319 Share Posted August 23, 2005 LOL joc at your first comment. On your second comment...marriage is dynamic, you have to be able to roll with the turns...no? She is a woman of conviction and belief...someone took her son for all the wrong reasons and she actually is speaking for all mothers who feel the same way...she is not the only one who wants answers. I am sorry her family is falling apart but maybe her husband was shallow? Where is his support for her? He is obviously so partisan that he divorced his wife. Lastly, her meeting in June with the President wasn't even a meeting and he didn't even acknowledge her questions. If you ask me...he should of faked it a whole lot better...because now she is also asking about those Downing St Memos...ouch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+joc Posted August 23, 2005 #320 Share Posted August 23, 2005 someone took her son for all the wrong reasons I know this is a hard concept for you, but: Soldiers die in wars! He enlisted voluntarily and then re enlisted to go back to Iraq...he believed in what he was doing . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babs Posted August 23, 2005 #321 Share Posted August 23, 2005 (edited) I don't listen to Rush and I voted for Gore, and I will be voting for Hillary next You do realize that you have just nullified any political argument that you have ever made? I very much think she deserves answers. She already talked to Bush in June...now she has caused her husband to divorce her and her mother to have a stroke...you should pity them not her 804445[/snapback] Yeah, but I am being honest, I will vote for Hillary; we need a woman in the White House. We need to address more women's issues. As I said in another thread, if Condi Rice runs, she will be my main man! It depends on the war and I think the war will be around for a long time. As long as there is war, the republicans should be in office. As soon as war is over, the dems will scoot in there. They have a lot of work to do. There is a lot of brain power in the democrats, they help our country progress. We are a progressive nation and progress is the most important item on our agenda, next to military. I really think the republicans should be in office next term, the war ain't over yet. Go Condi! .........I am really talking with iaapac, I am really listening to him. I think he is a very interesting fella. I want to know where he is coming from and I'd like him to know where I am coming from. Edited August 23, 2005 by Babs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babs Posted August 23, 2005 #322 Share Posted August 23, 2005 (edited) iaapac...are you out there? When you talk about the stereotype republican you are wrong about me. ....And many others, who voted Bush in. Many democrats are 'for' Bush. I jump parties depending on what issues need to be addressed... there are many people in this country doing that today. So everything isn't 'black and white' as joc would have you believe. I understand what you are saying and really would love to indulge in that dream you are weaving, but I have to be a realist and stand on terra firma. *The majority of the country voted Bush in, didn't you know??* Edited August 23, 2005 by Babs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wunarmdscissor Posted August 23, 2005 #323 Share Posted August 23, 2005 *The majority of the country voted Bush in, didn't you know??* the "majority of the country " did note vote bush in. he won by a slim majority of the cast votes 51 to 49 % kif i recall correctly, that is by no means the majority of the country. it was nearly 50/ 50 its fair to say that half or almost half of ALL americans do NOT support bush, and theyre entitled to their opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabutarian Posted August 23, 2005 #324 Share Posted August 23, 2005 *The majority of the country voted Bush in, didn't you know??* the "majority of the country " did note vote bush in. he won by a slim majority of the cast votes 51 to 49 % kif i recall correctly, that is by no means the majority of the country. it was nearly 50/ 50 its fair to say that half or almost half of ALL americans do NOT support bush, and theyre entitled to their opinion. 805288[/snapback] Besides, she seems to be going on the assumption that everyone who was eligible to vote did so, and that there was no voter fraud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nxt2Hvn Posted August 23, 2005 #325 Share Posted August 23, 2005 (edited) I LOVE the last paragraph! CINDY SHEEHAN: COMMANDER IN GRIEF To expiate the pain of losing her firstborn son in the Iraq war, Cindy Sheehan decided to cheer herself up by engaging in Stalinist agitprop outside President Bush's Crawford ranch. It's the strangest method of grieving I've seen since Paul Wellstone's funeral. Someone needs to teach these liberals how to mourn. Call me old-fashioned, but a grief-stricken war mother shouldn't have her own full-time PR flack. After your third profile on "Entertainment Tonight," you're no longer a grieving mom; you're a C-list celebrity trolling for a book deal or a reality show. We're sorry about Ms. Sheehan's son, but the entire nation was attacked on 9/11. This isn't about her personal loss. America has been under relentless attack from Islamic terrorists for 20 years, culminating in a devastating attack on U.S. soil on 9/11. It's not going to stop unless we fight back, annihilate Muslim fanatics, destroy their bases, eliminate their sponsors and end all their hope. A lot more mothers will be grieving if our military policy is: No one gets hurt! Fortunately, the Constitution vests authority to make foreign policy with the president of the United States, not with this week's sad story. But liberals think that since they have been able to produce a grieving mother, the commander in chief should step aside and let Cindy Sheehan make foreign policy for the nation. As Maureen Dowd said, it's "inhumane" for Bush not "to understand that the moral authority of parents who bury children killed in Iraq is absolute." I'm not sure what "moral authority" is supposed to mean in that sentence, but if it has anything to do with Cindy Sheehan dictating America's foreign policy, then no, it is not "absolute." It's not even conditional, provisional, fleeting, theoretical or ephemeral. The logical, intellectual and ethical shortcomings of such a statement are staggering. If one dead son means no one can win an argument with you, how about two dead sons? What if the person arguing with you is a mother who also lost a son in Iraq and she's pro-war? Do we decide the winner with a coin toss? Or do we see if there's a woman out there who lost two children in Iraq and see what she thinks about the war? Dowd's "absolute" moral authority column demonstrates, once again, what can happen when liberals start tossing around terms they don't understand like "absolute" and "moral." It seems that the inspiration for Dowd's column was also absolute. On the rocks. Liberals demand that we listen with rapt attention to Sheehan, but she has nothing new to say about the war. At least nothing we haven't heard from Michael Moore since approximately 11 a.m., Sept. 11, 2001. It's a neocon war; we're fighting for Israel; it's a war for oil; Bush lied, kids died; there is no connection between Saddam Hussein and al-Qaida. Turn on MSNBC's "Hardball" and you can hear it right now. At this point, Cindy Sheehan is like a touring company of Air America radio: Same old script and it's not even the original cast. These arguments didn't persuade Hillary Clinton or John McCain to vote against the war. They didn't persuade Democratic primary voters, who unceremoniously dumped anti-war candidate Howard Dean in favor of John Kerry, who voted for the war before he voted against it. They certainly didn't persuade a majority of American voters who re-upped George Bush's tenure as the nation's commander in chief last November. But now liberals demand that we listen to the same old arguments all over again, not because Sheehan has any new insights, but because she has the ability to repel dissent by citing her grief. On the bright side, Sheehan shows us what Democrats would say if they thought they were immunized from disagreement. Sheehan has called President Bush "that filth-spewer and warmonger." She says "America has been killing people on this continent since it was started" and "the killing has gone on unabated for over 200 years." She calls the U.S. government a "morally repugnant system" and says, "This country is not worth dying for." I have a feeling every time this gal opens her trap, Michael Moore gets a residuals check. Evidently, however, there are some things worth killing for. Sheehan recently said she only seemed calm "because if I started hitting something, I wouldn't stop 'til it was dead." It's a wonder Bush won't meet with her. Ann Coulter/Link Source Edited August 23, 2005 by Nxt2Hvn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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