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Faeden

Soldier's mom protests near Bush's ranch

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jeceris
Subject: Fw: Worth reading and thinking about

An essay by E. L. Doctorow

Edgar Lawrence Doctorow occupies a central position in the history of

American literature. He is generally considered to be among the most

talented, ambitious, and admired novelists of the second half of the

twentieth century. Doctorow has received the National Book Award, two

National Book Critics Circle Awards, the PEN/Faulkner Award, the Edith

Wharton Citation for Fiction, the William Dean Howell Medal of the American

Academy of Arts and Letters, and the residentially conferred National

Humanities Medal.

Doctorow was born in New York City on January 6, 1931. After graduating

with honors from Kenyon College in 1952, he did graduate work at Columbia

University and served in the U.S. Army. Doctorow was senior editor for New

American Library from 1959 to 1964 and then served as editor in chief at

Dial Press until 1969. Since then, he has devoted his time to writing and

teaching. He holds the Glucksman Chair in American Letters at New York

University and over the years has taught at several institutions, including

Yale University Drama School, Princeton University, Sarah Lawrence College,

and the University of California, Irvine.

  ================================================================

I fault this president (George W. Bush) for not knowing what death is. He

does not suffer the death of our twenty-one year olds who wanted to be what

they could be. On the eve of D-day in 1944 General Eisenhower prayed to God

for the lives of the young soldiers he knew were going to die. He knew what

death was. Even in a justifiable war, a war not of choice but of necessity,

a war of survival, the cost was almost more than Eisenhower could bear.

But this president does not know what death is. He hasn't the mind for it.

You see him joking with the press, peering under the table for the WMDs he

can't seem to find, you see him at rallies strutting up to the stage in

shirt sleeves to the roar of the carefully screened crowd, smiling and

waving, triumphal, a he-man. He does not mourn. He doesn't understand why

he should mourn. He is satisfied during the course of a speech written for

him to look solemn for a moment and speak of the brave young Americans who

made the ultimate sacrifice for their country. But you study him, you look

into his eyes and know he dissembles an emotion which he does not feel in

the depths of his being because he has no capacity for it. He does not feel

a personal responsibility for the thousand dead young men and women who

wanted to be what they could be. 

They come to his desk not as youngsters with mothers and fathers or wives

and children who will suffer to the end of their days a terribly torn

fabric of familial relationships and the inconsolable remembrance of

aborted life.... They come to his desk as a political liability which is

why the press is not permitted to photograph the arrival of their coffins

from Iraq.

How then can he mourn? To mourn is to express regret and he regrets

nothing. He does not regret that his reason for going to war was, as he

knew, unsubstantiated by the facts. He does not regret that his bungled

plan for the war's aftermath has made of his mission-accomplished a

disaster. He does not regret that rather than controlling terrorism his war

in Iraq has licensed it. So he never mourns for the dead and crippled

youngsters who have fought this war of his choice. He wanted to go to war

and he did.

He had not the mind to perceive the costs of war, or to listen to those who

knew those costs. He did not understand that you do not go to war when it

is one of the options, but when it is the only option; you go not because

you want to but because you have to. This president knew it would be

difficult for Americans not to cheer the overthrow of a foreign dictator.

He knew that much.

This president and his supporters would seem to have a mind for only one

thing --- to take power, to remain in power, and to use that power for the

sake of themselves and their friends. A war will do that as well as

anything. You become a wartime leader. The country gets behind you. Dissent

becomes inappropriate. And so he does not drop to his knees, he is not

contrite, he does not sit in the church with the grieving parents and wives

and children.

He is the President who does not feel. He does not feel for the families of

the dead; he does not feel for the thirty five million of us who live in

poverty; he does not feel for the forty percent who cannot afford health

insurance; he does not feel for the miners whose lungs are turning black or

for the working people he has deprived of the chance to work overtime at

time-and-a-half to pay their bills --- it is amazing for how many people in

this country this President does not feel.

But he will dissemble feeling. He will say in all sincerity he is relieving

the wealthiest one percent of the population of their tax burden for the

sake of the rest of us, and that he is polluting the air we breathe for the

sake of our economy, and that he is decreasing the safety regulations for

coal mines to save the coal miners' jobs, and that he is depriving workers

of their time-and-a-half benefits for overtime because this is actually a

way to honor them by raising them into the professional class. And this

litany of lies he will versify with reverences for God and the flag and

democracy, when just what he and his party are doing to our democracy is

choking the life out of it.

But there is one more terribly sad thing about all of this. I remember the

millions of people here and around the world who marched against the war.

It was extraordinary, that spontaneously aroused oversoul of alarm and

protest that transcended national borders. Why did it happen? After all,

this was not the only war anyone had ever seen coming.  There are little

wars all over the world most of the time. But the cry of protest was the

appalled understanding of millions of people that America was ceding its

role as the last best hope of mankind. It was their perception that the

classic archetype of democracy was morphing into a rogue nation. The

greatest democratic republic in history was turning its back on the future,

using its extraordinary power and standing not to advance the ideal of a

concordance of civilizations but to endorse the kind of tribal combat that

originated with the Neanderthals, a people, now extinct, who could imagine

ensuring their survival by no other means than pre-emptive war.

The president we get is the country we get. With each president the nation

is conformed spiritually. He is the artificer of our malleable national

soul. He proposes not only the laws but the kinds of lawlessness that

govern our lives and invoke our responses. The people he appoints are cast

in his image. The trouble they get into and get us into, is his

characteristic trouble.

Finally the media amplify his character into our moral weather report. He

becomes the face of our sky, the conditions that prevail: How can we

sustain ourselves as the United States of America given the stupid and

ineffective war-making, the constitutionally insensitive lawgiving, and the

monarchal economics of this president? He cannot mourn but is a figure of

such moral vacancy as to make us mourn for ourselves.

E.L. Doctorow

Eastern Shores School Board

http://www.easternshores.qc.ca

thats the best i've ever heard it all summed up about "w"

782896[/snapback]

i've been reading the banter back and forth between you all, and it's the same ol' stuff from the same ol' people with the same ol' point of view.

but did any of you take the time to read that essay, cause i think it's spot on when it comes to bush, and he really doesn't see the harm he is doing to the majority of americans, he justifies his actions with the approval from his rich friends, and that's why he will never come out and meet that mother, she's not someone who's opinion matters in his eyes, and more importantly, it's not a good photo opp.

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Celumnaz

http://www.thereporter.com/republished/ci_2923921

Article Launched: 06/24/2004 06:00:00 AM

Bush, Sheehans share moments

By David Henson/Staff Writer

Since learning in April that their son, Army Spc. Casey Sheehan, had been killed in Iraq, life has been everything but normal for the Sheehan family of Vacaville.

Casey's parents, Cindy and Patrick, as well as their three children, have attended event after event honoring the soldier both locally and abroad, received countless letters of support and fielded questions from reporters across the country.

"That's the way our whole lives have been since April 4," Patrick said. "It's been surreal."

But none of that prepared the family for the message left on their answering machine last week, inviting them to have a face-to-face meeting with President George W. Bush at Fort Lewis near Seattle.

Surreal soon seemed like an understatement, as the Sheehans - one of 17 families who met Thursday with Bush - were whisked in a matter of days to the Army post and given the VIP treatment from the military. But as their meeting with the president approached, the family was faced with a dilemma as to what to say when faced with Casey's commander-in-chief.

"We haven't been happy with the way the war has been handled," Cindy said. "The president has changed his reasons for being over there every time a reason is proven false or an objective reached."

The 10 minutes of face time with the president could have given the family a chance to vent their frustrations or ask Bush some of the difficult questions they have been asking themselves, such as whether Casey's sacrifice would make the world a safer place.

But in the end, the family decided against such talk, deferring to how they believed Casey would have wanted them to act. In addition, Pat noted that Bush wasn't stumping for votes or trying to gain a political edge for the upcoming election.

"We have a lot of respect for the office of the president, and I have a new respect for him because he was sincere and he didn't have to take the time to meet with us," Pat said.

Sincerity was something Cindy had hoped to find in the meeting. Shortly after Casey died, Bush sent the family a form letter expressing his condolences, and Cindy said she felt it was an impersonal gesture.

"I now know he's sincere about wanting freedom for the Iraqis," Cindy said after their meeting. "I know he's sorry and feels some pain for our loss. And I know he's a man of faith."

The meeting didn't last long, but in their time with Bush, Cindy spoke about Casey and asked the president to make her son's sacrifice count for something. They also spoke of their faith.

While meeting with Bush, as well as Sen. John McCain, R-Arizona, was an honor, it was almost a tangent benefit of the trip. The Sheehans said they enjoyed meeting the other families of fallen soldiers, sharing stories, contact information, grief and support.

For some, grief was still visceral and raw, while for others it had melted into the background of their lives, the pain as common as breathing. Cindy said she saw her reflection in the troubled eyes of each.

"It's hard to lose a son," she said. "But we (all) lost a son in the Iraqi war."

The trip had one benefit that none of the Sheehans expected.

For a moment, life returned to the way it was before Casey died. They laughed, joked and bickered playfully as they briefly toured Seattle.

For the first time in 11 weeks, they felt whole again.

"That was the gift the president gave us, the gift of happiness, of being together," Cindy said.

David Henson can be reached at schools@thereporter.com.

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Faeden

Hi bathory

No offence, but I found your comments confusing and hard to understand, but ill comment as to what I think you meant.

so what? do you even realise the extent of curruption within the UN? Libya headed the UN Human rights commision for gods sake

I do not know about that, can you find me evidence of this, I am not saying it didn’t as I do not know either way, but its not something I heard of. The fact is the UN where against the war, and America and Britain should have listened, as that was the agreement with all UN supported countries.

such as? which countries did the US invade pre 9/11?

You have missed quoted me, I said they never took much interest in us=UK before we started invading there countries. I did not mean the U.S.

Kuwait maybe? i can really see how stopping that secular Saddam from invading Kuwait must have really irked those religious fundamentalists! stop attributing the blame towards the west and actually look at fundamentalist islam for what it is.

You know, you really should read what I said again, because you have twisted my beliefs, please go back now and look for where I only blamed the west, if you read what I said instead of only seeing what you want to, you will see I blame all sides. I put blame on Islamic, Christian, and republican and ignorant fundamentalists on all sides. When it comes to murder I do not distinguish between one side or the other, they are all murderers in my opinion.

why oh why don't we get moonbat lefties defending neo-nazis and other such far right groups when they are more than comfortable defending the actions of islamic fascists, i think its the brown skin

Excuse me!!! this is a very confusing comment... Are you saying because I do not support killing I support nazi's? That is a very hypocritical comment to make, as the nazi's where all about killing others that did not have the same values as them selves if you did not mean it in that way then I apologise. If you look at many people in the world that support war, (Not saying that everyone that supports a war is a nazi ) but many have similar ideologies that the nazis have/had such as they all think that they are better than there "enemy". Look to the deep south of America, the bible belt, where not all, but many people support wars, and then listen to them in the privacy of there own homes, I think your find that fascism is a lot more common than one might think, not to say how ever than all American southerners are like that, but a lot are, its why the KKK thrive there.

Who defends the actions of Islamic fundamentalists? Not me as I have said a million times, I condemn any form of fundamentalism that harms anyone.

All the best

Faeden

Edited by Faeden

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Celumnaz
...

Cindy Sheehan told reporters: "I want to ask the president, 'Why did you kill my son? What did my son die for?"'

...

"And I said if he does care, why doesn't he come out and talk to me."

...

"I want to ask the president, `Why did you kill my son? What did my son die for?" she said, her voice cracking with emotion.

http://www.thereporter.com/republished/ci_2923921

Article Launched: 06/24/2004 06:00:00 AM 

Bush, Sheehans share moments

...

The 10 minutes of face time with the president could have given the family a chance to vent their frustrations or ask Bush some of the difficult questions they have been asking themselves, such as whether Casey's sacrifice would make the world a safer place.

But in the end, the family decided against such talk, deferring to how they believed Casey would have wanted them to act.

...

"I now know he's sincere about wanting freedom for the Iraqis," Cindy said after their meeting. "I know he's sorry and feels some pain for our loss. And I know he's a man of faith."

...

For a moment, life returned to the way it was before Casey died. They laughed, joked and bickered playfully as they briefly toured Seattle.

For the first time in 11 weeks, they felt whole again.

"That was the gift the president gave us, the gift of happiness, of being together," Cindy said.

David Henson can be reached at schools@thereporter.com.

783116[/snapback]

Edited by Celumnaz

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Babs
Hmmm Tough thing........ I for one am in the military and I dont want to die but if it means bringing peace fom terrorists I shall do that, My Father is proud of what I do and what I have accomplished He Knows the risks I take So my children in the end will live a happier and better life..... I pray there is no more terror attacks , But If there  is I will be ready to fight to stop it even its your children. I am willling to die for them.

Sunlit_Coyote

778456[/snapback]

I think this is wonderful. You put many to shame here. sad.gifblush.gif And I noticed you are female_ putting many more to shame. thumbsup.gif

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Faeden

Faeden hangs his head in shame….

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JayRob303
Hmmm Tough thing........ I for one am in the military and I dont want to die but if it means bringing peace fom terrorists I shall do that, My Father is proud of what I do and what I have accomplished He Knows the risks I take So my children in the end will live a happier and better life..... I pray there is no more terror attacks , But If there  is I will be ready to fight to stop it even its your children. I am willling to die for them.

Sunlit_Coyote

Well spoken thumbsup.gif

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bboy
IMO, he joined the military knowing full well that he may die for his country.

Although his mother deserves and gets mt full sympathy, what does she expect?

It's not like he was drafted or "snatched up" into the military.

777011[/snapback]

Let's compare that to an automatic death penalty for killing a policeman. Didn't the cop know what he was getting into when he signed his application?

778154[/snapback]

huh?

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bathory
I do not know about that, can you find me evidence of this, I am not saying it didn’t as I do not know either way, but its not something I heard of. The fact is the UN where against the war, and America and Britain should have listened, as that was the agreement with all UN supported countries.

Lybia chairs UN Human Rights commision, UN loses what little credibility it had

Who cares what the UN thinks?

You have missed quoted me, I said they never took much interest in us=UK before we started invading there countries. I did not mean the U.S.

you mean like the various fundamentalist preachers in the UK who have been screaming for british blood for the past 20 or so years? though you do have a point, they are targetting you now because they see you as a threat to islamist power, instead of targetting you later:)

Who defends the actions of Islamic fundamentalists? Not me as I have said a million times, I condemn any form of fundamentalism that harms anyone.

by constantly shifting the blame over towards the west, it sure comes off as though you are defending them

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wunarmdscissor

oh come on faedan do a little research its ridiculous to say that islam wasnt interested in us previously.

the very fact we've been been involved in countless wars witht ehm over the last 5 centuries destroys that theory.

the USSR tried to warn the west about muslim fundamentalists for the last 4 decades yet we ignored them and funded them, only thing we succeded in doing was give them the right pillars to attack us as well.

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wunarmdscissor
OK maybe calling Blair a monster was a little over the top, but he is certainly stupid, and i do not support him one bit

to call blair stupid is teh most ridiculous thing ive ever heard, he's quite possibly one of the cleverest politicians on the international stage since thatcher.

and why cant you understand what im telling you about blair and his involvment in Iraq.

forget your preconceptions that ehs a monster, open your mind and look at the position he's in.

i can bet he has probably a helluva a lot more forsight than you and me.

answer me one question?

if none of the worlds powerful nations , especially the USA's strongest and closest ally the UK joined in , what wouldve happened?

1. America wouldve attack 6 months earlier without even consulting the UN.

2. America's attack wouldve been far more extreme and shocking had blair not been constantly giving the president a balanced opnion and pressurising him.

3. Iraq would have been a COMPLETE disaster , no elections nothing at all.

4. the UN would be completley destroyed , its in a mess just now but at least it exists , becaus ethe UK SLOWED america down.

5. we enter a new low in international relations, possibly even the begginning of a new cold war race, NO nation would respect each other again.

I dont doubt that blair if given the choice wouldnt have went to Iraq but he KNEW america was goin wether he was on board or not , and he UNDERSTOOD the consequences if they did it alone..

see this is teh difference between you siitn in you armchair calling genuine people monsters and actually being in charge of a powerful nation.

This is why i would never vote loberal, by defininition tehy are incapable of making hard decisions.

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Faeden

Hi wunarmdscissor

to call blair stupid is teh most ridiculous thing ive ever heard, he's quite possibly one of the cleverest politicians on the international stage since thatcher.

The man is a bloody idiot, and if you cant see that then that is just scary.... If it where up to folk such as your self politicians would be able to get away with murder, and just do what they like.. Oh wait they all ready do.

And the fact that you believe Thatcher was clever is just plain terrifying.

forget your preconceptions that ehs a monster, open your mind and look at the position he's in.

Yes one he put him self in.

if none of the worlds powerful nations , especially the USA's strongest and closest ally the UK joined in , what wouldve happened?

Well its been debated a lot, and its been said by many that America would not go into Iraq alone if they knew that every single country (especially the UK) where against them doing so, some believe even Bush is not that stupid, its the fact that the UK told them they would go with the US that the crime happened. The only good thing about the war is that Saddam is gone, but then American and UK troops have probably killed more Iraqis than Saddam would have done anyway, so its kind of bitter sweet.

see this is teh difference between you siitn in you armchair calling genuine people monsters and actually being in charge of a powerful nation.

I do not claim to be a politician, and nor do I want to be. I am just giving my opinions and that is what a Internet forum is all about.

This is why i would never vote loberal, by defininition tehy are incapable of making hard decisions.

Don’t you mean they are less likely to be as corrupt? LOL

user posted image

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All the best

Faeden

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sanchera1978

Nice pics

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Babs

I like that one, "where we're only here for the oil." grin2.gif The others are sad really.

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Celumnaz

they need pics to understand what they're being fed

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iaapac

I am an expatriate who, because I could not morally support my nation under the leadership of George W. Bush, Jr., chose to leave it. That is not an easy thing to do. But neither is it easy to watch a great nation corrupted and the inherent rights of its citizens diluted by irresponsible and dangerous law making. It is not easy to watch the reputation of the United States diminished within the world community or to recognize that senseless wars represent an expansion movement far more than any noble cause.

I view this president as intellectually and morally bankrupt with absolutely no regard for the common welfare of the people of the United States. While there is legitimate cause to mourn the young men who sacrificed their lives for a false cause, it should also be noted that there are many thousands more innocent Iraquis who have died or been maimed by the mandates of this President.

I now see my nation from the outside. Sometimes it is a better view. I see it in decline and I anguish for the people who somehow ignore the theft of their rights and move silently in their daily struggle to survive within a disastrous economy.

I support no political party or cause. I support the America I once knew and I deeply fear that I will never see it again, even if I return.

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iaapac

Forgive me, I forgot to add what I think every time I hear George Bush speak . . . . BU _ _ SH_ _.

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Celumnaz

http://www.drudgereport.com/flashcs.htm

FAMILY OF FALLEN SOLDIER PLEADS: PLEASE STOP, CINDY!

Thu Aug 11 2005 12:56:21 ET

The family of American soldier Casey Sheehan, who was killed in Iraq on April 4, 2004, has broken its silence and spoken out against his mother Cindy Sheehan's anti-war vigil against George Bush held outside the president's Crawford, Texas ranch.

The following email was received by the DRUDGE REPORT from Cherie Quarterolo, Casey's aunt and godmother:

Our family has been so distressed by the recent activities of Cindy we are breaking our silence and we have collectively written a statement for release. Feel free to distribute it as you wish. Thanks Ð Cherie

In response to questions regarding the Cindy Sheehan/Crawford Texas issue: Sheehan Family Statement:

The Sheehan Family lost our beloved Casey in the Iraq War and we have been silently, respectfully grieving. We do not agree with the political motivations and publicity tactics of Cindy Sheehan. She now appears to be promoting her own personal agenda and notoriety at the the expense of her son's good name and reputation. The rest of the Sheehan Family supports the troops, our country, and our President, silently, with prayer and respect.

Sincerely,

Casey Sheehan's grandparents, aunts, uncles and numerous cousins.

Developing...

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Celumnaz

I'd like to know how this month long trip, and it's not just her, it's a bussload they shipped over from California... Is Funded? Do they work, or is this their job? To protest? Do the taxpayers get to pay them to do this?

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Faeden

Why would they refer to someone in there own family by there full name?

I think its pretty sick that someone would attack the mourning process of a mother that has lost there child, what is worse is its the mothers own family, and worse still they did it in such a public way. You would think that being that they are her family they would have understood that Cindy is just doing what she feels is right and respect her views, and that she has the freedom to believe what she wishes, they are not the ones that lost a child. They have sunken to a pretty low level.

All the best

Faeden

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Celumnaz

huh? I refer to many of my family members by their full name? I've already posted the article from last year that proves she's a hack, disrespectful of her son by her own admission, and driving the family name through the mud for noteriety. She had face to face time with Bush.

The lady, is a Hack. I guess some need pictures to understand.

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Faeden

I do not know what you mean by "some need pictures to understand" but seeing pictures of blown apart Americans Britons and Iraqis and of the pain there loved ones go through are the only pictures I need. She is standing up for her son.

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Celumnaz

I know you don't know what I mean. I wish I was an artist. She never had any respect for her son.

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Michelle

It sounds like her family knows exactly what she's up to if that many are speaking out against her.

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Faeden
I know you don't know what I mean.  I wish I was an artist.  She never had any respect for her son.

785028[/snapback]

I am confused as to what you mean sorry. But on the she never had any respect for her son thing, I think that is a pretty bad thing to say. Of course she respects him, he is her son.

All the best

Faeden

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