'Dragons' photographed from plane over Tibet

[mypaddedroom]

Yeah it looked like it got photoshopped. That is so fake.

811970[/snapback]

agree this pic has not value at all. Well except for like people who like editing pics.

[draconic chronicler]

I believe this is not a "faked" photo, but glaciers rivers as others have pointed out. What make these structures look so reptilian, is the delineations in the "tail" that so closely resemble the belly scutes of a snake (or dragon). But as shown in supplementary photos, glacial rivers have this same curious feature.

Real dragons, of course, cannot be so huge, and have a fairly uniform length of approximately 50 - 60 feet, and at this moderate size are so able to comfortably coil in the the confines of the "Holy of Holies" cubicle in the Temple of Solomon, where one was always stationed. This is why the specifications of this room as well as the Israelite tabernacle were so specifically detailed in Biblical accounts.

Contrary to the comments of several people, originally Chinese dragons looked nearly the same as so called "Western" ones. The very elongated Chinese dragon that flies through the air without wings is a relatively "late" artistic style. Dragons depicted in the artwork of the Han dynasty and before have poportionally "normal" looking bodies as do most western dragon depiections, complete with a pair of wings.

One could make the argument that if dragons are "real" creatures of some sort, and seen all over the world in ancient times as numerous cultures everywhere attest, they would have a fairly uniform appearance, but as they became less and less seen, memories would fade, and appearances would alter until we have the markedly different "types" of dragons in the different cultures that we know today.

The earliest true dragons appear in ancient Sumeria and are servant creatures to the Middle Eastern Gods, including the God of the Hebrew Bible. If we accept the premise that there is some validity to this religious system, it would explain why dragons have been seen throughout the world for centuries, yet with no fossil evidence of their existence, as they are "immortal" creatures, sometimes referred to as dragons, leviathan or destroyers, but also by their offices such as Seraphim and Cherubim.

[The Skeptic Eric Raven]

No real evidence that dragon's ever existed. In ancient times perhaps they found dinosaur bones and mistook them for dragons. That makes sense.

[zandore]

Eric

It seems I have heard something to that effect.

[draconic chronicler]

Of course no authentic dragon remains have ever been found, the Bible is very specific on the point they cannot be killed. All those dragon slaying myths are merely the products of human imagination and wishful thinking.

Most humans believe in things far less well documented than the existence of flying, intelligent, fire (and brimstone) spewing dragons. No other "unexplained" entity the world over has been so firmly believed in by so many different human cultures.

[sneeze]

Forgive me if I sound ignorant but where exactly are dragons mentioned in the bible? Surely you're not referring to the horned beast in revelations.

[draconic chronicler]

Sneeze said, "Forgive me if I sound ignorant but where exactly are dragons mentioned in the bible? Surely you're not referring to the horned beast in revelations."

In fact, dragons are mentioned something like 20 times in the Old Testament, (but some Bibles are now taking them out), and many more if we also include their other names such as Destroyers, Leviathan, Cherubim and Seraphim. They have also been misidentified in later Bible translations, for example the "fish" or "whale" in the Jonah story, is in fact a dragon, as the Hebrew word "Tannin" indicates, and all ancient representations of Jonah depict him being swallowed by a classic dragon, and not a fish or whale. Dragons also appear in many "lost books" of the Bible, usually in circumstances substantiating their role as "servant creatures". For example, God sends a giant dragon-serpent to partially swallow alive, and then release Moses as a warning, and one can clearly see the spot where this was edited out of Exodus, though it survives in other ancient Hebrew versions of the Exodus story, which most people are unaware of.

Being devoured by these heavenly dragons was a traditional punishment of the unrighteous by the Jewish God until Greek pagan ideas infiltrated both Jewish and Early Christian religious doctrine and "hell" was copied from Hades, even complete with the same pagan greek gods running it! Jesus however, may have implied the traditional dragon punishment when he mentions the "immortal worm" that torments the wicked, instead of a Greek Hades like hell created by his Greek cultured followers. It is interesting that the ancient egyptians also had a soul-devouring dragon-like creature as the fate of the unrighteous.

I am just completing a comprehensive book that examines the now largely forgotten role of dragons in the Judao-Christian religions, how this effected world-wide dragon legends, and the conspiracy to cover up the fact that they were clearly recognized as the highest servants of this God. It will be available on Amazon soon and will probably be mentioned in future discussions here on UM.

The western, anti-dragon conspiracy began when it was determined by the early Christian leaders that their religion must become "dualistic" to compete with the popular pagan religions of its time. For example, the Cherubim-Dragon Satan is never depicted as an enemy of God in the original Old Testament, and not connected at all with the Garden of Eden. Instead, the culprit is simply an anonymous "trickster" snake character exactly like the one in the Epic of Gilgamesh who also deprived man of eternal life. Satan in fact, is a Cherubim dragon, and may have been one of the guardians of these sacred trees, exactly like the dragons that guard sacred trees in numerous other religions (all of which must have a common lineage for the coincidence is too great). The early Christian writers essentially "rewrote" the Bible in their New Testament to give their new religion a "bad God" for the "good God" to fight, a universal pagan concept but one repungent to the monotheistic Jews. The best candidate for a "bad God" for the early Christians was one of the fearsome dragon servants of the "Good God", and what better choice than the dragon who watched the humans and reported their inequities to God, which was his actual duties as established in the Book of Job, and punished them accordingly. (Sodom and Gemorrah were destroyed by thes dragons). It is no coincidence then that one of the popular eastern religions in which many concepts of Christianity were imitated from (Zorastrianism), has a dragon for their "bad God" so the Christians followed suit. The irony however, is the fact that these Persians and Arabians adopted a dragon as their "bad god" because they justifiably feared and hated the dragon servants of the Jewish God, and in fact, their writings claim that the Jewish God was a dragon himself! The so-called "War in Heaven" and fall of the angels had nothing to do with any of the heavenly dragons, but was merely the Christian "rewrite" of a minor incident in which some horny angels went to earth to have sex with human women without God's permission (which doesn't really make for a good "war" story to create a new dualistic religion around). For the real angels were never the winged "spirit creature" which is a pagan idea, but were flesh and blood humans that ate food and had no wings as the Old Testament confirms. (and which Jesus endorsed as the authentic word of God).

Oh, we do see these dragons again in Revelation, but not the symbolic "beast" you refer too. Instead, they are the 'heavenly army' of 300 million fire and brimstone spitting, sharp toothed, snake tailed "creatures" ridden by human-like (wingless)angels, that are destined to destroy one third of the world's population someday in the future. St. John was reluctant to call these creatures "dragons" because the early Christians had already conspired to turn the dragons into villains, and it would have confused his readers (not that Revelations is already very confusing).

So it is a probably a good thing that U.M. is the world's unofficial "Dragon Watch" site as this thread confirms. It is probably for the best then, (for most of us, anyway), that the "Tibeten dragons" turned out to only be a Glacier and not the vanguard of a heavenly army of divine retribution.

Edited August 28, 2005 by draconic chronicler

[The Skeptic Eric Raven]

Please. Just because there is a world wide myth of dragons does not make them real. There has always been myths of demons and gods. Does that mean they are real. No. No.

[zandore]

Of course no authentic dragon remains have ever been found, the Bible is very specific on the point they cannot be killed.  All those dragon slaying myths are merely the products of human imagination and wishful thinking.

There are many on this forum that consider the Bible to be a work of fiction.

Most humans believe in things far less well documented than the existence of flying, intelligent, fire (and brimstone) spewing dragons.  No other "unexplained" entity the world over has been so firmly believed in by so many different human cultures.

813202[/snapback]

There are many pictures that can not be explained of UFOs but no pictures of God. I wonder why that is?

In fact, dragons are mentioned something like 20 times in the Old Testament, (but some Bibles are now taking them out),....

DC Have you ever wondered just how much of the Bible has been taken out and how much has been edited?

.....and many more if we also include their other names such as Destroyers, Leviathan, Cherubim and Seraphim.

Cherubim and Seraphim are Angels not dinosaurs/destroyers.

and one can clearly see the spot where this was edited out of Exodus, though it survives in other ancient Hebrew versions of the Exodus story, which most people are unaware of.

That is my point!

With so much of the Bible gone or changed how can you still believe in it?

There has always been myths of demons and gods.

[draconic chronicler]

Only one religious system that I am aware of, can, with reasonable interpretation, be compatible with current theories of a big bang creation, an evoultionary development of life, first beginning with life in the sea, knew there were dinosaurs, and describe the creation of humans in the last era. A great (though not world wide flood has also been proven, and many historical events in the Bible have likewise been vindicated.) So if we look for an explanation for dragons, it may be found in this, the most "authentic and realistic" of the worlds early religions. This is not to say however, that ignorant though well-meaning fundamentalists, who have no idea of science and history have turned it into a laughable fairy tale.

Cherubim and Seraphim were unquestionably dragons before the Christian conspiracies to turn them into Pagan Greek humanoid spirit creatures in theri rewrite of the Bible to make it acceptable to their pagan converts. The word Seraphim means in Hebrew "a flying and fiery serpent" which is a way of describing a dragon. These creatures also appear in ancient arwork, and are four limbed, winged scaly creatures which people today would call a "dragon", and are depicted guarding the gates of heaven, sacred trees, etc. which are the duties of Cherubim. They are even depicted on the base of the sacred Jewish menorah, because in those times, everyone knew that a Cherub was a winged "dragon". Finally, in the Bible, God is described riding these mighty Cherubim whose flapping wings created a great wind. Do you really think the bible writers were referring to God "riding" a chubby, winged baby idea of the cherubim? No, this idea was totally unknown then and came centuries later with the paganization of the Judao-Christian religions. You see exactly the same thing in pre-Christian, Greco Roman religous art which these ideas were borrowed by the early Christians. This is not to say that there were not angels. But angels looked exactly like normal people, and in fact were, becasue the bible also says they eat food. Angels were only to be messengers to mankind from God, because the heavenly dragons were to fearsome to undertake such mundane roles. Their purpose was to destroy the enemies of God, (and anyone else when they were on their "off-time", which explains much of their playful bouts of pillage, devouring and destruction among the unbelievers - though they apparently liked the Chinese, or maybe they just didn't happen to like their "taste". It is perhaps no coincidence than many of the "evil dragon" myths originate in places like Germany and Scandinavia where the people were pagan, quite big and fat, and perpetually filled with alcoholic beverages. All things that would consitute their making good "dragon fodder".

[zandore]

I am sorry Draconic Chronicler I forgot to say welcome to the UM Forum!

My Bad.

Only one religious system that I am aware of, can, with reasonable interpretation, be compatible with current theories of a big bang creation, an evoultionary development of life, first beginning with life in the sea, knew there were dinosaurs, and describe the creation of humans in the last era.

I am assuming that you mean Christianity and there lies the problem.

In Genesis chapter 1:25-27 Humans were created after the other animals.

1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

In Genesis chapter 2:18-19 Humans were created before the other animals.

2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

So I guess you are half right

[draconic chronicler]

Zandore, thanks for the welcome.

I am not of the fundmentalist viewpoint in that every word of the Bible was divinely inspired and has been "magically preserved" over the centuries. I know from my own research into the Biblical dragons, that the Bible has been edited over the centruries, much of it in the last few decades. I understand too, that for centuries these "stories" were an oral tradition, and have certainly changed in their retellings. Stories regarding the great flood (which we know didn't cover the entire world, but did flood regions of the middle east), Eden, etc. sometimes written down 1500 years before the Hebrew versions, are probably more accurate, and they are recognized in my book, particularly those dealing with dragon entities. Many historical event in the Bible, dismissed by critics for centuries, have now been verified thorugh archaeology.

The fact that there are some contradictions in the Bible, like the two verisons of the creation story, is no reason to dismiss the real history in that book, as well as references to things of supernatural or otherwise unexplained nature like souls/spirits and the remarkable fact that "dragons" have been believed in by virtually every world culture, yet here can be found the most plausible explanation for their existence.

Yet of all these cultures, only one has a "creation story" that some modern scientiets marvel at how closely it resembles what we have only learned through science in the past decades. And if that one culture also acknowledged that dragons were a kind of servant-creature to this creator-entity, which of all religions is far more closely in harmony with evolution and a long creation, then this is why I have primarily focused my research into the existence of "dragons" to these ancient texts, though it is by no means limited to them.

And when all of this information is compiled (far more than simply from the Bible), an interesting and plausible picture of what dragons really are emerges, as many people who have already read it have confirmed.

Edited August 29, 2005 by draconic chronicler

[manticoreconfusion]

its either a chinese dragon or a wyvern (a big dragon without any back legs)

one of the best ppics i can see and for those for cant see it look at the black thing in the corner and go up and u should see the dragon bit

its more a tail though

[starlitkate]

The pic don't show the whole bodys. But I can't see clouds looking such a detailed shape as a spine and the sharp structered of what is being shown in the clouds. I don't beleive there are dragons. Cuz someone by now would had seen them flying around. But this was made because there is more than clouds in the pic.

[Dante The Hunter]

these pics are unuaual, but i love the dragon myths, lets all hope people!!!!!!

[Oppono Astos]

Wow probably the best dragon pics ever taken

Well, as dragon's became extinct long before the invention of photography...

[zandore]

Go HERE (<a link) and everything will be explained.

[crystal sage]

http://www.cctv.com/english/20070614/103375.shtml

"A group of scientists has discovered the skeletal remains of a gigantic prehistoric bird in northern China's Inner Mongolia Autonomous Region."