Belgian woman fined for wearing burka.

[Blackleaf]

A woman in Belgium was fined for wearing an Islamic burka, but because she is on welfare, the city will end up paying the fine.

So what's the point in fining the woman in the first place?!

Crazy Europe strikes again.

City to pay woman's fine

for breach of burka ban

25 August 2005

BRUSSELS — In the Limburg city of Maaseik the first fine for wearing an Islamic burka has been issued.

Police booked a young woman of Moroccan origin three weeks ago for wearing the all-concealing Islamic veil, newspaper 'De Standaard' reported on Thursday.

The woman will now be required to pay a EUR 125 fine, Maaseik Mayor Jan Creemers said on Wednesday.

Ironically, the city will probably end up paying the fine because the woman is receiving social security payments from the OCMW benefits office.

The woman will not be the only one fined however. Police have already booked four other women for the same crime.

The incidents may also lead to the

payment of fines, but Maaseik will also end up paying their fines because the women are on social security recipients also.

On 27 December last year, the Maaseik City Council approved the controversial and so-called 'burka decision'.

The decision banned the wearing of a burka — a body-covering garment with veiled holes for the eyes — and a niqab, a face veil covering the lower part of the face up to the eyes.

www.expatica.com . . .

Edited August 26, 2005 by Blackleaf

[morpheas]

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Edited November 18, 2005 by morpheas

[Talon]

forcing women not to wear it is as bad as forcing women to wear it. my sympathies are with the woman who was only practicing her religion, which while i was growing up was not a crime 

I desagree, if Belguim makes it the law not to cover yourself head to foot like a second class citizen, then its the law and she should follow it. Personally it scares the cr*p out of me that I'm seeing women, completing cover up, walking around Glasgow the year. Since when did we become the Taliban? That holw outfit is just a sign of degrigation and not as much as it might be part of this women's culture, it simply isn't accaptable behaviour in the west. As you yourself, morpheas said in the Iraq thread next to this, the Middle East and West have a very different culture, these women should realise they now live in the west.

I also feel sorry for Belguim where's its something like 20% of the population are Mulsim, refuse to intergrate, and most can't even speak the language. I'd be getting sick of that too if that were happening here. Its Belguim, not Afghanistan.

[Baku]

The woman is probably from Marokko. Personally I think every foreigner should life and accept the ways of living in the country they are in. Sure Im for freedom, freedom of wearing your own clothes and choosing your own religion. But like in France, this freedom is dominating the France culture. About 40% of France wears a headscarf, the whole France culture is slowly vanishing. And its kinda the same case as in Belgium.

[Guest Lottie]

forcing women not to wear it is as bad as forcing women to wear it. my sympathies are with the woman who was only practicing her religion, which while i was growing up was not a crime

811524[/snapback]

I agree, the irony is its a crime to these women that they are fining her for something that is part of her life even though I find the whole garb incredibly demoralising and degrading to these women.

I find myself wavering in the middle with issues such as this.

If you live in anothers country you abide by the laws of that country and if you don't like it tough.

I cannot help but feel though this whole terrorist threat gets way out of hand sometimes, thanks to the media luvvies. This is the West and these women have nothing to fear but I really don't think its that simple. I imagine these women have had it drummed into them all their lives that they must act and wear these garments accordingly. Its not so easy to break that cycle and if they are doing no harm anyway I do not see the problem. As far as I am concerned time and time again all religion does is cause conflict and segregation, its evident throughout history and is shown in this article. The more I read about situations like this the more I cannot see how any 'long term' good can come of this kind of action.

Edited August 27, 2005 by Lottie

[morpheas]

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Edited November 18, 2005 by morpheas

[Talon]

give over talon, you're sounding like a hardline mullah, listen to yourself. we're talking about a piece of cloth, not something barbaric like stoning, how does wearing a piece of cloth influence someones behaviour???

'give over talon, you're sounding like a hardline mullah'? ... thats rubbish, don't be so hostile.

And as for 'piece of cloth'? I'd describe it as a 'cage' myself.

[morpheas]

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Edited November 18, 2005 by morpheas

[Talon]

dont be so hostile???????  where was i hostile? because i said give over?? check out what the northerners say, it is not a hostile phraise in the slightest. 

It certainly sounded hostile saying someone sounds like a hardiner.

its a piece of CLOTH, if you confuse it with a cage, i cant help thinking you need glasses

Oh now your insulting my eye sight, seriously morphous, lighten up.

Anyway, I'm looking at it. I see cage.

[morpheas]

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Edited November 18, 2005 by morpheas

[Talon]

i see CLOTH  not a cage.

Say what you want, I still see a cage.

edit : i also see that this woman has to 'pay' for wearing the burka in belgium,

Not really, she was to lazy to get a job and so is letting the public pay the fine for her.

live and let be talon!!!!

Wish you'd thought of that before saying I sounded like a hardliner and saying I needed glasses just because I don't agree with you.

[morpheas]

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Edited November 18, 2005 by morpheas

[Talon]

im not the one dictating how anyone should dress 

Strange, I don't remember the western nations being the ones that make women wearing burka's and headcothes part of the religion .

Morpheas, deal with it, its a western country and doesn't have to share your cultural views. To us the sight of a women covered head to foot in a heavy cloth like a monkey in a cage is a sign of oppression and its not acceptable here. If she wanted to wear a Burka there are plenty of countries that will make sure she wears it, but she's in Begluim and should respect what they beleive is right and wrong, instead of spunging off the state as she's currently doing.

Considering your rant in the Iraq thread about how the west should learn that Middle Eastern countries had different cultural views and we shouldn't expect them to sudden decide to accept ours, its very hypocritical that you don't think the situation works in reverse.

Edited August 27, 2005 by Talon

[morpheas]

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Edited November 18, 2005 by morpheas

[Talon]

To us the sight of a women covered head to foot in a heavy cloth like that is like a monkey in a cage is a sign of oppression and its not acceptable here.

it is equalling oppressing to dictate at all what women should wear in my opinion, or is it only acceptable if they flash a bit of clevage?

I don't care if they should clevage or not, thats their buiness not yours or mine. As long as they don't wear a symbol of the oppressed like the Burka or a symbol of oppression like a SS uniform I don't care. You can say all you want about freedoms of clothing, but there are limits, just the same as we can't have naked people running around.

but if she and her children have lived in belgium most of their lives under a government who did accept such dress, then why should she have to leave the country now, because they decided to DICTATE what was acceptable now? how is her dress hurting anyone? please tell me????

She should leave because she can't follow the laws, Morpheas. Laws are always changing, most people keep up. Its like saying after Black people were made equals, the KKK shouldn't have to feel like they arn't allowed to beat them up anymore. How would society ever funtion if people were allowed to say 'UYou know what, I'm going ingore this law because its only a few weeks old'.

And as for her dress, you might as well ask how does someone running around naked hurt anyone, or someone in a Nazi outfit hurt anyone. The answer is they do. Again morpheas, the west just has different levels of cultural acceptability than yourself, deal with it.

i dont think so at all, whatever the iraqi people want is the most important factor in the formation of a new government, why should a government be formed solely on what OUTSIDERS want, not considering what the occupants want?

And how is this different? Why should this woman be allowed to come into Belguim, live of welfare, with no regard to what the occupants (the Europeans who've lived there for several thousand year) want?

[morpheas]

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Edited November 18, 2005 by morpheas

[SilverCougar]

i see CLOTH  not a cage.

edit : i also see that this woman has to 'pay' for wearing the burka in belgium, just as she has to 'pay' for not wearing it in afghanistan. live and let be talon!!!!

813234[/snapback]

Fine.. I don't hear you saying you're wearing that "cloth". It's a bloody cage. It's trapping a woman inside of it so that she is hidden from and held from the world.

I would never want to be in a cage like that...

Cloths can be just as confining as cages, kiddo.

[Talon]

i used to boast in iran about how tolerant the west was where clothing was concerned, i cant do that anymore 

whatever, morpheas

[morpheas]

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Edited November 18, 2005 by morpheas

[SilverCougar]

You're making the assumption I wet the bed at age 4.

Even if you are 4 years younger then me.. you are still a kiddo in my eyes. Like the nick or not.

And how do you know I haven't. I said I'd never wear one.. that doesn't mean I haven't to make that conclution.. nor does that mean I don't know anyone who has. Accually I do know someone who has.. and she couldn't *WAIT* to be let out of that hot horrible prison. (and if you must know, she let me wear it so I could experiance it. It was hot, heavy... I couldn't breath clearly.. see clearly... hear clearly... It was like a near total sensory cut off. Now imagin that in the hot deserty lands of the middle east... Yeah, Real nice things to wear there... right?)

So becareful who you call ignorant.

[morpheas]

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Edited November 18, 2005 by morpheas

[SnakeProphet]

Morpheas...where have you been 6 months ago. I could've used your help

[RaginCajun]

there are some laws that are challenged and changed. this can lead to it. earlier back in this post a scottish said, "Since when did we become the Taliban?" in the west here you can do whatever you please as long as it is within rules and regulations.

i say:

"you need to get out more and learn."

Edited August 28, 2005 by RaginCajun

[SilverCougar]

Morpheas to quote you... sorry if I don't buy your little story.

[morpheas]

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Edited November 18, 2005 by morpheas