Blackleaf Posted August 28, 2005 #1 Share Posted August 28, 2005 (edited) Old Europe, Looking Older By Jean-Christophe Mounicq Last week's election results shows that France is at a dead end, with huge economic problems and no political solutions being offered. France is dying of socialism because all French politicians -- including the ones who claim otherwise -- are socialist. The welfare system and the state are heading toward bankruptcy, and all they can promise is still more public and social spending. The recent French regional elections were a Berezina for Jacques Chirac's new party, UMP (labeled center Right but in fact center Left), which was routed for having done nearly nothing. The Socialist and Green parties won without any program but to "restore socialism", and with no credibility the National Front (populist nationalists on the far right) made no progress despite an extremely favorable environment. Of 22 French regions, only one will be governed by the UMP-UDF coalition. This is a major political debacle: less than two years ago, the UMP alone (which previously ruled 13 regions) enjoyed a landslide victory with 400 out of 577 members in the French National Assembly. This change is as abnormal as the Soviet score of 82 percent that allowed Chirac to be re-elected president in May 2002 against the National Front's Jean-Marie Le Pen. Since the election of François Mitterrand in 1981, the French have systematically sanctioned the team in power. The size and acceleration of the sanction are linked to the size and the acceleration of the decline. It shows how lost we French are. Lost and schizophrenic. We cling to our antiquated welfare system built by Communist ministers at the end of WWII, and our "public services", although these two elements precipitate the country into decline and bankruptcy. The French now face this economic panorama: a growth rate of 0 percent in 2003 (despite the 4 percent growth in public spending which accounts for more than half of the GNP), a continuous rise in unemployment since July 2001 (even since 1973 if most unemployed people had not been withdrawn from official figures by "social treatment", pre-retirement, etc.), a decline in investments for the first time since 1997, a diminution of the number of jobs for the first time since 1993, and so on. Bad social news follows bad economic news. The French also are aware of high "real" inflation -- on housing, food, public services -- and the decline of their purchasing power. European statistics reveal a decline in the French standard of living that dropped from 3rd to 12th place among EU countries in just ten years. The entrenched French politico-media system claims that European statistics are not reliable. But lies have limits. Even if they see the problems, most French think the system is eternal. They do not believe they could go into bankruptcy. Bankruptcy is a problem for "stupid" African or South American people. Being the cleverest people on earth, the French elites, must have invented the best system in the world. The French are not the only pretentious people. But, among the developed countries, France is probably the one where political elites have the tightest control of the media and the political system. All media are in the hands of conglomerates that do business with the state and thus do not criticize the "civil-servant-politician" caste. Intellectuals, specialists and journalists repeat false statements until people think they are true. The French have been so brainwashed that many not only think they make the best cheese (would a foreigner at least concede us this superiority or is it the desperate sign of my chauvinism?) but in every other field, as well. The French think they have the best retirement system in the world despite the fact that the state does not have any reserve. They also believe they have the "best health care system in the world", the "best transportation system in the world", the "best electric system", etc. What about 15,000 deaths caused by a heat wave in July 2003, ten times as many as in Spain or in Germany? The answers of "the system" are simple: the Spanish are used to heat, and Germans spend more money to take care of their elderly. The British spend higher still. What about huge deficits of €15 billion for the public medical system or €12 billion for the national railway company? This must be because the rich do not pay enough taxes. But if you raise taxes, business goes away. Businesses go to China or the US, two unjust countries where the poor and the ill are dying in the streets: we need to stop globalization or set a worldwide tax. In the meantime, before the French elites and their foreign socialist counterparts, with the help of the United Nations, were able to convince the world to build a communist planet, France is collapsing "alone" with other socialist countries. But France is failing more rapidly since its system is closer to communism than any other. Property's rights are annihilated by taxes; market efficiency is destroyed by preposterous laws. All that French elites do is advocate more public and social spending. Thus even with one of the highest tax rates of all developed countries, the system can not be balanced. The last balanced budget was in 1973. The first oil shock has still not been absorbed. The French state has had a deficit for more than 30 years. France has the largest deficit of all EU members: over 4.1 percent of GNP. French elites, in their typical bad faith, repeat that it is not such a problem since the US deficit is a little higher (5 percent). They just "forget" to remind us that the US is in a completely different situation. First the US is at war on two fronts, in Afghanistan and in Iraq, with tremendous costs. Second the US deficit is also due to efficient tax cuts that are enhancing the US economy with a 4 percent growth rate while France has globally raised its taxes and knocked down its economy to no growth at all. The general idea in France is why should we reform our system if we have the best in the world, if deficits and debts are no problem and if bankruptcy is impossible? Even the small reforms made by the government of Jean-Pierre Raffarin were labeled unfair and unjustified by civil servants. This explains partly his electoral defeat. But the main reason is probably that French Conservatives simply did not mobilize to support a government that has done so little. Its "biggest", but still small, reform was of the pension system. Most of the 7 million civil servants now have to work 40 years, in theory, to retire. Instead of 37.5. The same process was applied to the 15 million workers in the private sector ten years ago. But the pensions of civil servants have not been lowered as they have has for others. The rates are still calculated on their last six months' salary as opposed to the "average of the best 25 years" formula of the private sector. Despite their very favorable situation (better salaries, fewer working hours, more lucrative retirement package, etc.) more civil servants voted than two years ago. They voted against the small reforms thus highlighting their hypocrisy. They do not complain when the state puts the burden on people working in the private sector. Deficits are not a problem... when it affects civil servants. Despite the small reforms made by Raffarin, one must avoid a common mistake made by foreign and French commentators. Chirac, UMP, UDF and the government of Jean-Pierre Raffarin are described as "conservative" or "from the right". As all the preceding so called "conservative" governments of the last 25 years, this government of civil servants has, in fact, continued to protect the privileges of civil servants, raised taxes, public and social spending, preserved preposterous laws conceived to regulate the economy. It was in reality a socialist government in disguise. In theory, the French have a choice between left and right coalitions as in any democratic country. In fact, the French can only vote for statist-minded Stalinist civil servants. They have the choice between socialism and socialism. Because there is no freedom-oriented political offering, the country is condemned to the status quo. But as the French decline shows, the status quo is not sustainable in an evolving world. In most developed countries, a majority of people, including even a few socialists, now understand that socialism does not work. New-Zealander socialists and Italian communists have lowered the number of civil servants. Swedish socialists have privatized or cut costs in public services. Socialists have been forced by financial realities to lower taxes, encourage market solutions and freedom. In France, even the "conservatives" have not done it. It is the "French exception": French "conservative" politicians are to the left of most socialists of the planet. One may compare France with the former USSR. The right is Stalinist (Chirac distributed the newspaper of the communist party during his studies) while the left is Trotskyite (former socialist Prime minister Lionel Jospin was a Trotskyite until his late forties). These latest elections show that no reform of the state, not even the smallest, is possible any longer. Even with an alliance with the populist National Front -- like the ones in Austria, Italy or Switzerland -- UMP and UDF could not have won a majority. Like all French political life, the "new" French government is a farce: still the same prime minister and senior ministers, with some newcomers who think like old politicians. The French "conservatives" that were already socialist-minded said they understood the message of the voters: "We are going to make more socialism". With an aging population and an already deteriorated system, this will mean more deficits. Couldn't French civil servants and politicians at least give a damn about the European economy? They have already destroyed the French economy. Europe one is the least of their worries. Not only France but the whole of Europe may thus experience a major financial collapse. The socialist victories in France and in Spain two weeks earlier make old Europe look even older. www.techcentralstation.com . . . Edited August 28, 2005 by Blackleaf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saru Posted August 28, 2005 #2 Share Posted August 28, 2005 What point are you trying to put across by posting this ? The article appears to do nothing but put down and criticise France, hardly grounds for a constructive discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maghrebia Posted August 28, 2005 #3 Share Posted August 28, 2005 Even if they see the problems, most French think the system is eternal. They do not believe they could go into bankruptcy. Bankruptcy is a problem for "stupid" African or South American people. Being the cleverest people on earth, the French elites, must have invented the best system in the world. i doubt most french think that way though, I go to a french school so I'll ask around. the rest is good to know. not that I'm happy about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richdog Posted August 28, 2005 #4 Share Posted August 28, 2005 Agreed... bit of a pointless thread... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baku Posted August 28, 2005 #5 Share Posted August 28, 2005 I bet it took you a couple of days to form a article like that, geez you must really have something against the French Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Posted August 28, 2005 #6 Share Posted August 28, 2005 Yet another ‘French economy isn’t doing so well’ thread. Blackleaf do you have any personal opinions on the state of the French economy or proposed solutions to the circumstances they face? Perhaps even dare to start a discussion on the matter? The French economy is obviously a topic you feel rather close to, so tell us your thoughts on the matter. I only ask because I am tired of reading the same story every day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Posted August 29, 2005 #7 Share Posted August 29, 2005 French wrongly believe France is great France is a former superpower, makes world class wine, a world famous language, fought for the side of good in two World Wars and Paris is a tourist capital of the world. France is a great European nation and has every right to be proud of itself. The only embarrassing part of France's history is the colonial Empire bit, and I don't think anyone from Britain can criticise it for that considering what the British Empire did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wunarmdscissor Posted August 29, 2005 #8 Share Posted August 29, 2005 its just the fact he clearly hates the french , his hatred is no better than racism. this is really gettin annoyin. who cares? why are u taking pleasure in french people's misery? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Ed Posted August 29, 2005 #9 Share Posted August 29, 2005 Blackleaf, a few odd jokes at the French, fine. The rivalry between England and France has been going for centuries. However, you seem to take it too seriously, it is only a joke. There isn't anything really wrong with the French, no more than what is wrong with the English... This constant anti-French bs is getting old and stopped being funny a while ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lottie Posted August 29, 2005 #10 Share Posted August 29, 2005 French wrongly believe France is great France is a former superpower, makes world class wine, a world famous language, fought for the side of good in two World Wars and Paris is a tourist capital of the world. France is a great European nation and has every right to be proud of itself. The only embarrassing part of France's history is the colonial Empire bit, and I don't think anyone from Britain can criticise it for that considering what the British Empire did. 815018[/snapback] To add to your list .... France is also the biggest Champagne producer in the world. Paris will always be the capital of haute couture! Oh and the French have produced some of the very best Artists, Architects, Musicians and Fashion Designers in the world. And the countryside and the language is quite beautiful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Ed Posted August 29, 2005 #11 Share Posted August 29, 2005 France is also the only country that makes and can make Champagne! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bboy Posted August 30, 2005 #12 Share Posted August 30, 2005 French wrongly believe France is great The only embarrassing part of France's history is the colonial Empire bit, and I don't think anyone from Britain can criticise it for that considering what the British Empire did. 815018[/snapback] And laying down while the Germans march into Paris. And letting the U.S. come in and help them in Vietnam, while they quietly leave. I can think of many more embarrassing parts if you would like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bboy Posted August 30, 2005 #13 Share Posted August 30, 2005 France is also the only country that makes and can make Champagne! 816518[/snapback] That's like saying Yugoslavia is the only country that makes and can make Yugos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Posted August 30, 2005 #14 Share Posted August 30, 2005 (edited) And laying down while the Germans march into Paris. And letting the U.S. come in and help them in Vietnam, while they quietly leave. I can think of many more embarrassing parts if you would like. Okay, if you want to attack the French like that, we can say then the British lay down when Hitler took the Channel Islands and then waited until the US came in and helped them get the islands back. And you seem to ignore than the British army was driven off the mainland in 1939 by the Germans. Don't kid yourself, if it wasn't for the channel Britain would have been occupied just the same as every other European state the Germans could access easily had been. In WW2 only two miltary forces were stronger than Germany, the Red Army and the US army. France is also the only country that makes and can make Champagne! That's like saying Yugoslavia is the only country that makes and can make Yugos. The French make the best wine deal with it. Edited August 30, 2005 by Talon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bboy Posted August 30, 2005 #15 Share Posted August 30, 2005 France is also the only country that makes and can make Champagne! That's like saying Yugoslavia is the only country that makes and can make Yugos. The French make the best wine deal with it. 818188[/snapback] That might very well be true, but champange is just sparkling wine, from the Champange region of France. So obviously no other country can make "champange" per say. They are some fine sparkling wines out there though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffybunny Posted August 30, 2005 #16 Share Posted August 30, 2005 French wrongly believe France is great The only embarrassing part of France's history is the colonial Empire bit, and I don't think anyone from Britain can criticise it for that considering what the British Empire did. 815018[/snapback] And laying down while the Germans march into Paris. And letting the U.S. come in and help them in Vietnam, while they quietly leave. I can think of many more embarrassing parts if you would like. 818111[/snapback] If you had even the slightest understanding of military history you would realize that your simplistic view of WWII is wrong. The French did not have anywhere near the resources or manpower that Germany had at the time of the invasion, nor the finances to be able to build such a military powerhouse. The amount of military that France had in ratio to their national budget and resources to support it was very high, and unlike the common misunderstanding the did fight as much as they could until they were overwhelmed. Rather than chance destroying the entire country they conceded and put together one of histories best underground resistance that saved countless American lives and allowed much information to get to the Allies. As for Vietnam the US did the same thing that the French did a decade earlier, so why are you using that as an example? France has been a center for art and culture for longer than most countries have been established and continues to do so. Unlike the folks that run around putting down the french without ever actually been there; I have been there several times. The French are rather kind and outgoing people if they are treated with respect and not confronted with the very attitude that you seem to have. Arrogance and condescension towards an entire country and its people will make anyone rude, and from experience I can tell you that Americans that go to France expecting the French to learn english rather than the other way around is just the start of American rudeness that makes me understand the friction between the two countries. What you are doing is no different than saying that all blacks are criminals or all mexicans are lazy; it is racist and ignorant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Posted August 30, 2005 #17 Share Posted August 30, 2005 That might very well be true, but champange is just sparkling wine, from the Champange region of France. So obviously no other country can make "champange" per say. They are some fine sparkling wines out there though. Actually in my Supermarket they sell a veriety of Champange, from different countries. The French invented it doesn't mean others haven't copied it. Its like Whiskey, Scotland invented it, and tons of other countries tried unsuccessfully to copy it. Personally I hate Champange and prefer US-burbon, Vodka (I don't really care if its Russian or not), and Dark Rum (preferably Caribbean). However, everyone I know who liked Champange agrees only the French one is worth anything and the various knock-offs from vineyards around the rest of world suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bboy Posted August 30, 2005 #18 Share Posted August 30, 2005 French wrongly believe France is great The only embarrassing part of France's history is the colonial Empire bit, and I don't think anyone from Britain can criticise it for that considering what the British Empire did. 815018[/snapback] And laying down while the Germans march into Paris. And letting the U.S. come in and help them in Vietnam, while they quietly leave. I can think of many more embarrassing parts if you would like. 818111[/snapback] If you had even the slightest understanding of military history you would realize that your simplistic view of WWII is wrong. The French did not have anywhere near the resources or manpower that Germany had at the time of the invasion, nor the finances to be able to build such a military powerhouse. The amount of military that France had in ratio to their national budget and resources to support it was very high, and unlike the common misunderstanding the did fight as much as they could until they were overwhelmed. Rather than chance destroying the entire country they conceded and put together one of histories best underground resistance that saved countless American lives and allowed much information to get to the Allies. As for Vietnam the US did the same thing that the French did a decade earlier, so why are you using that as an example? France has been a center for art and culture for longer than most countries have been established and continues to do so. Unlike the folks that run around putting down the french without ever actually been there; I have been there several times. The French are rather kind and outgoing people if they are treated with respect and not confronted with the very attitude that you seem to have. Arrogance and condescension towards an entire country and its people will make anyone rude, and from experience I can tell you that Americans that go to France expecting the French to learn english rather than the other way around is just the start of American rudeness that makes me understand the friction between the two countries. What you are doing is no different than saying that all blacks are criminals or all mexicans are lazy; it is racist and ignorant. 818242[/snapback] So me stating the misdeeds of the French in recent military history makes me a racist? I think you have issues with people stepping on France, and I am the scapegoat. I am just simplistically stating the facts, not being ignorant or racist towards France. I have nothing against the French, I just don't like their current administration. I guess if that makes me a racist in your eyes, I can't change that. One day I hope to travel to Europe and see France. I majored in History in College, so I know a few things about military history. I am at work so sometimes I don't have the time to fully articulate my argument. But if you attack me for my so called "ignorance" of military history from 3 sentences, than so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Posted August 30, 2005 #19 Share Posted August 30, 2005 (edited) So me stating the misdeeds of the French in recent military history makes me a racist? I think you have issues with people stepping on France If you're not racist against them why do you feel the need to step on them? France lost to Germany, so what? Britain got hammered too, had it not been for the channel we'd have been occupied. What has that got to do with the 'current administration' you metion or the French economy. I majored in History in College, so I know a few things about military history I did a BA Hons. in History with Politics at University, I know about WW2 too I'm also currently finish my Master in Politics... but that really doesn't cover WW2. But if you attack me for my so called "ignorance" of military history from 3 sentences, than so be it. Fluffy did not attack you, he was simply pointing out the errors in claiming the French were just 'laying down' to the German's when Paris was taken. And then calling it 'embarrassing' when Britain didn't do much better having fled mainland Europe during the same month and only avoiding occupation because of a stretch of water. The French have nothing to be embarrassed about in being occupied, they were invaded by a superior force and defeated in battle fighting the forces of evil. I don't call that embarassing - tragic - but not embarassing. Edited August 30, 2005 by Talon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bboy Posted August 30, 2005 #20 Share Posted August 30, 2005 (edited) So me stating the misdeeds of the French in recent military history makes me a racist? I think you have issues with people stepping on France If you're not racist against them why do you feel the need to step on them? France lost to Germany, so what? Britain got hammered too, had it not been for the channel we'd have been occupied. What has that got to do with the 'current administration' you metion or the French economy. I majored in History in College, so I know a few things about military history I did a BA Hons. in History with Politics at University, I know about WW2 too I'm also currently finish my Master in Politics... but that really doesn't cover WW2. But if you attack me for my so called "ignorance" of military history from 3 sentences, than so be it. Fluffy did not attack you, he was simply pointing out the errors in claiming the French were just 'laying down' to the German's when Paris was taken. And then calling it 'embarrassing' when Britain didn't do much better having fled mainland Europe during the same month and only avoiding occupation because of a stretch of water. The French have nothing to be embarrassed about in being occupied, they were invaded by a superior force and defeated in battle fighting the forces of evil. I don't call that embarassing - tragic - but not embarassing. 818293[/snapback] Education is never a bad thing, I hope you finish it out. But, he was attacking me. In his last sentence he hinted that I was racist and ignorant. He tried to skirt around it, but when it comes down to it, thats what he said. Edited August 30, 2005 by bboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Posted August 30, 2005 #21 Share Posted August 30, 2005 (edited) Education is never a bad thing, I hope you finish it out. I have a disertation of 15,000 words to had in at the end of this month (I'm actually more or less finished it at the mo, just needs grammar checked), then I'm officially " *insert real name* BA.hons / Msc " and after that my ego will know no bounds Muahahahahahahahahahaha But, he was attacking me. In his last sentence he hinted that I was racist and ignorant. He tried to skirt around it, but when it comes down to it, thats what he said. No he said the arguement was racist as it seemed to be sterotyping the French as cowards who waited for everyone else to save them. He didn't say 'you're a racist', there is a difference. Edited August 30, 2005 by Talon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackleaf Posted August 31, 2005 Author #22 Share Posted August 31, 2005 I bet it took you a couple of days to form a article like that, geez you must really have something against the French 814833[/snapback] Not really. I didn't even write the article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Ed Posted August 31, 2005 #23 Share Posted August 31, 2005 (edited) Actually in my Supermarket they sell a veriety of Champange, from different countries. The French invented it doesn't mean others haven't copied it. Its like Whiskey, Scotland invented it, and tons of other countries tried unsuccessfully to copy it. Talon, the only thing that can be called Champagne is the fizzy wine that is made in the place called champagne. B-boy is right, the rest of them are just high, or low quality fizzy wines. Some of them call themselves champagne though. Wtf am I talking about champagne for? I hate the stuff. Edited August 31, 2005 by Mr Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Posted August 31, 2005 #24 Share Posted August 31, 2005 (edited) Talon, the only thing that can be called Champagne is the fizzy wine that is made in the place called champagne. B-boy is right, the rest of them are just high, or low quality fizzy wines. Some of them call themselves champagne though. I never said the rest weren't knock offs, in fact I quite clearly said the French make the only good versions, but that hasn't stopped a ton of non-French companies to release bottles of what they call Champagne. And it works both ways , I've seen a French 'Malt Whiskey'..... who on earth came up with that insane concept?! Edited August 31, 2005 by Talon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iaapac Posted August 31, 2005 #25 Share Posted August 31, 2005 French wrongly believe that France is great???? And do Americans believe America is great? Or Italians about Italy, or Spaniards about Spain? No one is wrong. There is an inherent belief that our nation of birth is the greatest. Some of us learn differently but it is a generally sound belief system throughout the world and not one person with such beliefs is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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