Bush's response to the tragedy...

[Richdog]

Wow I am watching the news now and it is truly SHOCKING. There are thousands with NO food or water. There is NO sign of government help of relief... women are holding babies that haven't eaten for almost two days... the police were crying.

The most powerful country in the world cannot launch a co-ordinated relief effort? No buses to transport people? No food shipped out straight away?

With all the technology and resources... nothing? As I said... truly shocking, I would have expected a far more rapid response. Truly astonishing... it's a shambles.

Or am I missing some valid reason why the response has been so poor?

Also on the news was that before the attack on the WTC, the 3 main areas for USA disaster concerns were New Orleans, New York (terrorism) and something else I can't remember.

New York happened as we all know, so what then... did Bush suddenly think "Oh well, lets forget about the other two?" New Orleans should have been prepared for... it wasn't...

Very worrying if you ask me... America seems to be there instantly for Third-World countries... what about its' own...?

Edited September 1, 2005 by Richdog

[jeceris]

y'know richdog, i was looking for somewhere to rant about all of this, was even thinking of starting a new thread, but i'll go with yours, cause i wanna talk about this mess, and how it's all falling apart here, and bush, well he's always a problem, will now likely show just how little he cares for the working poor of the country, but hang on a moment, let me just go over the whole thing and see if we can see what the bigger problem is here.

ok. you have to deal with nature and it's weather. we all know that.

hurricanes happen, and they will continue.

but here's what i read so far about new orleans.

first it being built below sea level is bad enough, and the levy's are only supposed to be good enough for a category 3 hurricane, anything more and there not going to keep the water out.

so, 200 million dollars from the federal government was set aside a few years ago to build up the levys and reinforce the city.

the money never got there, it went to the war in iraq.

hold on, i know, you think i'm blaming the iraq war for the troubles in new orleans, hardly, but i just want to mention a few things here which have added the catastrophe of the hurricane.

ok, so we have money that was meant for civic infrastructure diverted to the war.

how about the ecologists. now someone who lives or knows the layout of new orleans may know more about this than i, but here's what i read.

there were marshlands around new orleans, and the ecologists had stated it needed to be left alone, to act as buffer for any storms that blew through. but the oil hungry greedy burn the earth types drilled through the marshlands laying pipelines for all the oil that comes in, this caused the marshlands to sink and when the storm hit, and the surges of water, the natural buffer wasn't there. but that's always the story right, screw the ecologists, the tree huggers they know nothing, and we don't need the marshalands.

and now to bush.

what was that tepid pile of spam he went on about last night.

i see america without a strong leader, when, now of all times you really need one.

there is no plan, there seems to be little concern for the truly poor.

stories of people being airlifted from their homes, to be dropped in the street and told, you're on your own now.

dead bodies in the lobby at the superdome, cause, well. where you gonna put them.

and lastly, what about the military there, allready stretched to it's limits, because all of the miltary is in iraq.

this is a third world mess in america. could it have been prevented? no. the storm would've come.

but if the money back then had have been used properly, if the money needed now, wasn't being blown in iraq, if bush was truly a leader, and if you had all the military you really need at your disposal, then it would definately not be as bad as it is right now.

and if bush thought his popularity was falling, wait a month, it's going to be abissmal.

and he probably doesn't care, cause he won't be running for office again.

i feel sorry for the poor who are sitting in the streets with no food or water, i feel sorry for the city of new orleans, which has become the 21st centuries pompei, and i feel sorry most of all for america.

you are truly in trouble.

i hope you can show the rest of the world what i know you're made of, and climb out of this mess.

[+joc]

Or am I missing some valid reason why the response has been so poor?

I think you are just under-estimating the devastation of the storm. Keep in mind that New Orleans is not the only place hit...the entire Gulf Coast is gone...do you understand that? Can you understand that?

...the other thing you probably don't understand is that Louisiana was pretty much a Third World Country before the storm....you have no idea the stealing and looting that went on before the storm...in the halls of past Louisiana governorships...

first it being built below sea level is bad enough

The city wasn't built below sea level...it sank.

Edited September 2, 2005 by joc

[Nameless]

Back to the election, i was surprised that the United States voted the President that spent most of his time on vacation then being in the office and working. A man who, when heard of the first plane ramming into the trade center, continued to talk to preschoolers.

I'm sure that he is trying really hard to make everything better but if he spent less time on vacation, alot more lives could have been saved.

[jeceris]

uh no jock, the city was built below sea level, 20 feet or thereabouts.

and the laying of the pipeline helped sink the surrounding marshlands.

or are you saying the city sank after the hurricane?

[+joc]

Back to the election, i was surprised that the United States voted the President that spent most of his time on vacation then being in the office and working. A man who, when heard of the first plane ramming into the trade center, continued to talk to preschoolers.

I'm sure that he is trying really hard to make everything better but if he spent less time on vacation, alot more lives could have been saved.

Idiocy pevails.

Is it possible for you people to just put your hatred for Bush aside for a moment and consider the magnitude of this horrific event?

[jeceris]

you're missing the point joc.

regardless of how i feel about bush, i am not blaming him directly for the misery that now exists.

more could've been done before to prepare for such a disaster, and so much could be done now.

and the war in iraq is not directly related to the problems in new orleans, but the money allready spent, and the military there, doesn't help those who need help the most now in your own country.

he's dropped the ball, and you do that when you focus on something else, and in his case, it's his obsession with iraq.

[Babs]

Richdog...there are no words. You've said it all. And jeceris, thank you for the boost to our morale. I would like to join this discussion, but it's too soon for me. This is a good thread.

[Kabutarian]

joc, jeceris isn't saying that Bush has it out for the people of New Orleans or anything. It's more carelessness on the part of the administration then it is malicious intent.

[+joc]

regardless of how i feel about bush, i am not blaming him directly for the misery that now exists.

Yes you are:

he's dropped the ball, and you do that when you focus on something else, and in his case, it's his obsession with iraq.

Do you really think that FEMA is sitting on the sidelines twiddling their thumbs because they don't have enough money or resources? The fact is that:

(CBS/AP) President Bush on Sunday urged people living in the path of Hurricane Katrina to take the storm extremely seriously and to move to safer ground. "We cannot stress enough the danger this hurricane poses to Gulf Coast communities," said the president.

"We will do everything in our power to help the people and the communities affected by this storm," President Bush said as Katrina bore down on a stretch of coastline that includes New Orleans, a city sitting below sea level with 485,000 inhabitants. "I urge all citizens to put their own safety and the safety of their families first by moving to safe ground."

In addition to packing winds of up to nearly 175 mph, the category five storm also carried a threat of a massive storm surge.

Mr. Bush spoke with reporters on his central Texas ranch shortly after New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin ordered an immediate mandatory evacuation for all of New Orleans.

Late Sunday, President Bush pressed for an emergency declaration in Alabama, which would allow federal operations in. Florida, Louisiana and Mississippi were already declared disaster states.

Source

[Piney]

What urked me was that the rich got out, the poor were left, and like joc said 'It is a third world country' the minumun wage isn't even enforced and some of those people make $3.00 an hour. My Aunt Willa who lived down there and visits her family says her sisters dream salarly is $7,000 a year and the state and Govenor are to blame in Louisiana's case. National guard and emergency reponse are the states responsibility. Compare this mess with New York's response to 911. It is a different state and you can't compare it. What do you people think we have a national ambulance squad or firefighter corps.

lapi'che ni'tis

[Faeden]

I wonder if this had happened in Hollywood, would they have had more and quicker help?

[JennRose]

he's dropped the ball, and you do that when you focus on something else, and in his case, it's his obsession with iraq.

822042[/snapback]

I think you had hit the nail on the head with this. Bush has been more preoccupied with this war of his, and now the issues with our gas prices are taking precedence. Such is the price we pay when we elect an oil baron to the White House.

[bathory]

if only bush had sent the national guard to New Orleans to shoot at the storm

[jeceris]

bathory, your suggestions are getting better, keep trying buddy, you'll get it eventually

[bathory]

what is the government response like in comparison to say the florida hurricanes?

New orleans is screwed, but so is much of the entire coast, i imagine taking that into account would explain why things appear to be moving slowly

[Richdog]

Or am I missing some valid reason why the response has been so poor?

I think you are just under-estimating the devastation of the storm. Keep in mind that New Orleans is not the only place hit...the entire Gulf Coast is gone...do you understand that? Can you understand that?

Well to be honest bud with my limited comprehension skills I have real trouble writing my own name onto cleaning job application forms but I think if I struggle really hard that I know what you may be getting at.

BUT my dear joc, disaster EXPERTS (i.e: not some young man hanging around on an internet forum) seem to disagree with you, and appear to think that the response has been poor and ill-prepared http://news.yahoo.com/s/krwashbureau/20050...icize_exclusive

The experts, including a former Bush administration disaster response manager, told Knight Ridder that the government wasn't prepared, scrimped on storm spending and shifted its attention from dealing with natural disasters to fighting the global war on terrorism.

Read this transcripted Bush interview regarding the disaster, WTF is he talking about... is this the sign of a confident and assured president? http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...5041100879.html

"I don't think anybody anticipated the breach of the levees," Bush said.

Wrong.

Just for starters, how about Sunday's New Orleans Times-Picayune , which described a computer model run by the LSU Hurricane Center. "It indicated the metropolitan area was poised to see a repeat of Betsy's flooding, or worse, with storm surge of as much as 16 feet moving up the Mississippi River-Gulf Outlet and topping levees in Chalmette and eastern New Orleans, and pushing water into the 9th Ward and parts of Mid-City."

Or Monday's New York Times , in which New Orleans Mayor C. Ray Nagin is quoted as saying that "Hurricane Katrina could bring 15 inches of rain and a storm surge of 20 feet or higher that would 'most likely topple' the network of levees and canals that normally protect the bowl-shaped city from flooding.

And as Andrew C. Revkin and Christopher Drew write in today's New York Times: "The 17th Street levee that gave way and led to the flooding of New Orleans was part of an intricate, aging system of barriers and pumps that was so chronically underfinanced that senior regional officials of the Army Corps of Engineers complained about it publicly for years."

Here is another damning appraisal of the giovernment response... http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/na...-home-headlines

Thereare more if you search the world news but that is MORE than enough for now.

Hey but joc, if it's ok I can start a new thread if you like titled "Bush managing disaster wonderfully, supporters agree he is doing all he can", would that be better?

Tis' as you said joc in your usual unimitable 'style'... "idiocy rules"... and nowhere more so than America.

Do you understand that? Can you understand that?

[Rhomphaia]

First of all, every single one of you who is b****ing about the lack of aid, get off your ass and do something. Donate money, get down there yourself, do something to help make the situation better or shut up. As for me, as soon as the bank opens, I am going to see how much I can donate.

Secondly, I have heard estimates of a ninety-thousand (yes, a 9 with four 0s behind it) square MILES of land has been devastated by this hurricane. To put it in a box, that is a 300 x 300 mile area, which is a hair smaller than the size of the state of Oregon. This is a huge area filled with people needing evacuation and help, places needing supplies delivered, areas needing cleaned up and everything else that goes along with a disaster.

This is unprecidented in the history of the US. This is the single largest disaster that has hit the United States. A city is pretty much gone, and countless communities other than that. You cannot tell me that any of these 'experts' have anything to compare this to because emergency services, national guard and FEMA have never had to deal with anything of this enormity before. There is nothing in US history on US soil to compare it to. Nothing.

Just be happy there is a response at all.

Oh, and one more thing...

Tis' as you said joc in your usual unimitable 'style'... "idiocy rules"... and nowhere more so than America.

Care to lay off the America bashing for a bit jackass? It's getting old.

Edited September 2, 2005 by Rhomphaia

[Guest Lottie]

This is the most powerful nation in the world and I too am shocked at the lack of aid happening and the slowness of recovery over there. When it first happened I was under the impression that America had it pretty much covered for major emergencies and incidents such as natural disasters, seeing as the weather over there is so unpredictable.

Instead I see something along the lines of what happed in Thailand and surrounding lands with the Tsunami and YET this is not Thailand or any of those poor third world nations where people have nothing. Its complete lunacy that a country so powerful and so rich is in utter chaos and its people dying because of lack of food and clean water. Noproper sanitation, doctors and nurses working in dirty surroundings and children and women being god knows what. It is again truly shocking

Edited again- my last post may of caused a shouting match. lol.

Edited September 2, 2005 by Lottie

[sleepygrizz]

on CNN they mentioned how when Bush called Congress back to pass legislation on the Terry Schiavo case that it took only one day...they met on a sunday ...so why did it take 4 days for them to do something about this???

[Guest]

The response has been dreadful! I don't understand why Canadian troops aren't there as well, why newscasters can roam the devestated streets but people bringing food can't do it.

There obviously isn't a lack of money, but it's pretty obvious that someone is really taking their time getting things done. The Mayor of New Orleans is furious, his people are dying, help is supposed to be coming... but it doesn't seem that way.

Last night on CNN they were saying that people are starting to complain of the smell of the dead. They also have people marching through the streets, going into houses and marking the number of dead people inside on their doors.

[Rhomphaia]

Why can't people stop complaining about the quality of a response and just be thankful that there is a response in the first place?

I am actually surprised that things are going this good. In addition to money, you need human resources. That means people on the ground. Right now, the only people on the ground are Americans. A number of nations pledged help, but it is all monetary and material. NO ONE, to my knowledge, has offered up to send volunteers or relief workers over to the disaster areas. The one exception is Mexico. Mexico is the only on I have heard that has offered to send people.

Right now, like I said, national guard, Red Cross and local authorities are trying to make sense of an area of chaos the size of Oregon. It's gonna take some time to sort sh** out, especially in New Orleans, where you have armed gunmen roaming the street shooting at cops and helicopters.

[Guest]

People are complaining of the quality of the response, because they know that the authorities can do better!

They do NOT need to be 'thankful that there is a response in the first place', when there are people dying on the street, surrounded by bodies and human waste, not having any food or water for days, and are fearful of being raped or murdered on top of all that!

There is not a lack of resources. Many countries have offered aid, but are no where to be seen. Food has been 'on it's way' for a few days now. These people can't wait anymore. Their response is not good enough.

[Richdog]

First of all, every single one of you who is b****ing about the lack of aid, get off your ass and do something. Donate money, get down there yourself, do something to help make the situation better or shut up. As for me, as soon as the bank opens, I am going to see how much I can donate.

I already donate money monthly to the situation in Africa, I simply cannot afford to give any more money away.

Care to lay off the America bashing for a bit jackass? It's getting old.

Jackass eh? Very mature, and a great way to get your point accross by childish insults. I'm impressed!

Why can't people stop complaining about the quality of a response and just be thankful that there is a response in the first place?

LMAO! Oh I can picture it now the victims saying: "THANK YOU Mr. President for providing us a response, I mean... we didn't really expect one or anything, why should we...? We are grateful that you deigned to aid us, event though it has been very late in coming and sloppily implemented. We are forever in your debt good sir!"

Do you realise how that sounds? Be thankful there's a respone in the first place? HELLOOOO! This is the 21st century, and these people are US CITIZENS, a country regarded as the most powerful and technologically advanced in ther world, is a response not EXPECTED by every tax-paying person in need? Should they be thankful they are noticed?

Rhomphaia until you start providing a sensible, non-fanboyish argument to counter the allegations that the government has responded poorly to the disaster then thy bother posting? Are you for one second trying to tell me you know better than disaster analysis experts or the media who have already pointed out the government flaws in this matter? Are you some sort of armchair oracle?

And for the record criticising the U.S. GOVERNMENT is not the same as being Anti-American! They are two completely different things!

Edited September 2, 2005 by Richdog

[Michelle]

This is the first disaster I've ever heard where people were actually shooting at the rescuers. It makes absolutely no sense.

The buses are having to be stopped before reaching the city because they are being ambushed. I've talked to a couple that were there on vacation and they said that the airline cancelled their flight before it was necessary and left them stranded. The hotel hired private buses to get them out and they had to sneak them out in the middle of the night. Even though, they were spotting by thugs who were banging on the bus and trying to get on threatening to kill them all. And, that was on the first night of the storm, before conditions got so bad.

Major fire power is the only way they are going to be able to get in.