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Me_Again

How New Orleans Was Lost...

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jeceris

then close all the threads.

i thought this was a place where you can come and voice your thoughts, it's not about laying blame, just 20/20 hindsight thoughts.

but obviously coming here to discuss this stuff, upsets many.

and if any of my posts have done that, then i apologize.

like everyone else. it's my opinion, that what the point of this forum is.

but it seems lately it's wrong to discuss what one iterprets as being wrong, with the world.

fine snuffy, and the rest. you win.

i'm out. not point discussing anything anymore.

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Faeden

Yes because if it was up to people like Rhomphaia everyone should just stick there head in the sand and never question a thing, because politicians are so perfect, and you should not question them because they know what is best for us right? Rhomphaia your a politicians dream, they would go around doing what they wish, and no one would ever question them. No one said Bush is responsible for the hurricane, as that would just be stupid, but Bush is one of the most unintelligent politicians on the planet in humans history, he needs to constantly be questioned the man is clueless.

All the best

Faeden

Edited by Faeden

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Me_Again
Bush Calls Relief Efforts 'Not Acceptable'

President Tours Devastation Amid Mounting Criticism

Wow wacko.gif

"Now we're in the darkest days," Bush said.

Link

crying.gif

I am doing something besides what I do everyday, I am shedding some light on this tragedy. I won't shut up wub.gif Snuffypuffer

*crying to the POWER OF LOVE

edit: anyone who is angry or offended by this thread - NEED NOT REPLY. I would like to keep this thread open to discussion on problem solving strategies, positivity and other like-minded ideals. The President has admitted that the efforts so far have been "unacceptable"... On a positive side ... wub.gif

Helping

Everything is as it should be - in Light and Love, Me_Again

Edited by Me_Again

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Raptor
Most of the Louisiana NG wasn't even mobilized before the storm. The Iraq deployments didn't make any difference.

Then there is the swirl of accusations against Bush now taking shape. Democrats in Congress have blamed him for diverting funds to homeland defence that should have been used to shore up New Orleans’s sinking levees.

That's the most ridiculous thing I've read here all day. Yeah, I'll bet Bush just plucked a wad of cash right out of the envelope marked "New Orleans leevee" and stuck it into one marked "neo-con plots."

822453[/snapback]

To be honest, Im really not sure what happened; I live in England and I dont keep up with affairs like this so bear with me. From what I recall...

When they realised that the sinking levee's could become hazardous; a grant was requested to have the levee's replaced/repaired; but because homeland defence was the priority, the grant was denied. Do a google and Im sure you will find lots of info on it.

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Michelle

They've been trying to get money for the levee from many administrations, not just this one. None of them seemed to think it was important enough to allocate money for something that may never happen.

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Raptor

Remember the time I was talking about 3rd world country's, and I said

'If something like that happened in America, they would get all the aid in the world', turns out I was wrong. mellow.gif

Edited by T-Nemesis

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ajagsfairy
Remember the time I was talking about 3rd world country's, and I said

'If something like that happened in America, they would get all the aid in the world', turns out I was wrong.  mellow.gif

823355[/snapback]

The lower class and poor here dont get aid but the rich and higher class do. Its sad and pathetic. I'm so glad i'm moving to the Uk soon.

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__Kratos__
Remember the time I was talking about 3rd world country's, and I said

'If something like that happened in America, they would get all the aid in the world', turns out I was wrong.  mellow.gif

823355[/snapback]

The lower class and poor here dont get aid but the rich and higher class do. Its sad and pathetic. I'm so glad i'm moving to the Uk soon.

823416[/snapback]

I'm waiting live footage, listening to the police scanner and keeping up on cnn.com... seems to me EVERYBODY is getting aid.

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bboy
Remember the time I was talking about 3rd world country's, and I said

'If something like that happened in America, they would get all the aid in the world', turns out I was wrong.  mellow.gif

823355[/snapback]

I'm so glad i'm moving to the Uk soon.

823416[/snapback]

Me too..... thumbsup.gif

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The Caspian Hare
I have a crazy idea. And it may just work, it's so out there with it's zaniness. Why doesn't everyone here just shut the **** up and donate some time or money to helping these folks out?

Laying blame is pointless, the situation is what it is, and all this bickering does nothing to help anything. All you're doing is making noise.

823169[/snapback]

Because it's much easier to moan and whine and feign outrage.

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Raptor
I'm waiting live footage, listening to the police scanner and keeping up on cnn.com... seems to me EVERYBODY is getting aid.

823429[/snapback]

That might be the case now but it certainly wasn't the case earlier.

I'm glad the aid is finally getting around now; anyway. Maybe this whole thing will be a wake up call as to what's going on in third world countries. thumbsup.gif

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joc
And that's why NO fell: because no-one wants to pay more taxes to provide better defences against a storm that might not happen.

Actually it is a bit more sinister than that. No one wants to pay taxes period. It isn't the populace to blame...it is the government....but not the Federal Government.

Louisiana is a 'good ole boy' state and as such many of the governors were crooked. For instance Governor Edwards was indicted and tried on several counts including rackateering. None of the 'leaders' wanted to spend money on a 'disaster that might not ever happen' when they could spend it on programs designed to keep them in office.

The disaster of New Orleans is the fault not of Hurricane Katrina...nor of GWBush, but rather of the short-sighted, money-grubbing, crooked as a stick governors and mayors of the Great State of Louisiana. Consider the tax revenues generated from the casinos alone. And not one penny went to shoring up the levees. It was ...oh Daddy Washington please won't you give us some money to fix our levees...

The blame is on the past leaders of Louisiana who thought 'someday' would never really happen. Exactly why President Bush is making Social Security an issue. It isn't in default yet but why wait until a disaster to fix things...in the case of NO it is just too damn late. And it is so, so sad. ph34r.gif

Edited by joc

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Me_Again

I won't blame anymore tongue.gif The blaming is over...

I won't blame the victims for being black or white or undereducated or overweight. I won't blame the victims for not leaving. I won't blame the victims for being scared, angry and hungry. I won't blame the levees. I won't blame the military for shooting people for looting, I won't blame FEMA for just learning about the people in the convention center. I won't blame politics. I won't blame GW Bush *grits teeth grin2.gif .

At this point, I am stopping all blaming and sticking to problem solving without blaming. The name of this thread is How New Orleans was lost and I am renaming it to... How the entire region that was destroyed by the hurricane and seemed to be lost, was found. Let's post some heroic stories of people helping people. Let's post some uplifting miraculous stories. yes.gifwub.gif OK here is the first one... Link

Celebrating Micro Miracles

As a survivor of the outskirts of Hurricane Katrina, right now, this is what I know:

-- that in Baton Rouge, La., the winds hit 110 miles per hour, and the hummingbirds navigated this wind, which picked up 200 ton blocks of concrete in Mississippi, like a breeze;

-- that a tree frog successfully rode out the storm on the leeward side of a Mexican fan palm that battered our dining room window;

-- that though the wind thrashed the web of a writing spider and her egg sac, all three sailed through the storm without damage.

I am in awe of these micro miracles in the face of such macro devastation: trees down, power lines live, flooding, storm surge and death, even in our fair city. My mother evacuated here from Long Beach, Miss. We hope that she has a house to return to. We count our blessings for our friends and family who made it safely through the storm. We send our blessings to all the people we can't reach and the devastation we can't see.

-- Marybeth Lima, Baton Rouge, La

So the first problem that needs to be solved is...How can America help itself better, in times of catastrophe ? Please reply with your ideas...(this is going to take many. many, many years to solve (at it may not be solved wacko.gif )

Time to buy a bike and maybe one for your neighbor if you can thumbsup.gif and not just because John Titor said so ph34r.gif

Katrina Victims: Sources of Help and Where to Give Help

Problem solving help

I truly hope that the stories I've read about help not being accepted -

are wrong blink.gif

in Light and Love to ALL, Me_Again

Joc...

Louisiana is a 'good ole boy' state and as such many of the governors were crooked

Edit: (couldn't resist innocent.giflaugh.gif )...Wasn't President Bush a former 'good ole boy' Governor from the state of Texas w00t.gif

Edited by Me_Again

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Elysiumfire

This has been a good thread, a good discussion, some good valid points made. Of course, this was one of those scenarios where elements that could make up a disaster fell neatly into place one following the other, and causing the catastrophe; Bush and his ludicrous policies just happened to be the last required element.

According to some analysis, we can actually go right back to the beginning (and here I am parenthesising so-called intelligent commentators from quality rags). There is a comment (actually there's two) in the Independent here in the UK, that actually blames the people whom settled New Orleans for building it in a disaster prone area. It's their fault! Just as it'll be the fault of all the Californians when the big shake arrives. Stupid is as stupid was according to these pillocks. So, for the last two hundred years, elements of the disaster that has just occurred have been drifting into position and lining up like dominoes, just waiting for a puff of wind to blow the first one over, yeah, and no one noticed! Makes you think what else is lining up for the future, doesn't it?

Question: Did the settlers actually know they were building in hurricane alley? And what about all those silly buggers living in tornado alley? And then there's those feet-warmers living near to the caldera in Yellowstone Park, yeah, people actually work in that area. Are they nuts? Of course, I took this serious commentary with a pinch of salt.

One thing is for sure. What happend in New Orleans over the course of those terrible 5 days, is probably a good sampling of what would happen if there was a massive insult to our society's infra-structure. There would be acts of heroism and acts of barbarity. Hurricane Katrina caused 2 thirds of the disaster, but the more lethal last third was man-made. The people of New Orleans need saving, and they needed saving like last week, so yes, let's concentrate on that job first and foremost; but let us also observe and record what we find and uncover, so that when the time comes to apportion blame, we can do so by hitting the right targets.

Hurricanes will batter New Orleans over and over again, but at least now the experience is there to ensure that the city is better prepared.

Regards all

Elysiumfire

Edited by Elysiumfire

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joc
At this point, I am stopping all blaming and sticking to problem solving without blaming. The name of this thread is How New Orleans was lost and I am renaming it to... How the entire region that was destroyed by the hurricane and seemed to be lost, was found. Let's post some heroic stories of people helping people.

Well done. thumbsup.gifclap.gifthumbup.gif

Joc...

Louisiana is a 'good ole boy' state and as such many of the governors were crooked

Edit: (couldn't resist )...Wasn't President Bush a former 'good ole boy' Governor from the state of Texas

No. Bush isn't a 'good ole boy'. The term in politics refers to those who take cash under the table in all sorts of scandalous illegal schemes.

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joc

But wait a minute..stop the tape...

...perhaps you were right after all....

Now we know why Bush found the rescue effort to be 'unacceptable'...he only wanted to get the situation under control so his cronies from Haliburton could cap those precious gas lines! tongue.gif

Nagin warned: "We have to convince them to leave. It's not safe here. There is toxic waste in the water and dead bodies and mosquitoes and gas. We are pumping about a million dollars' worth a gas a day in the air. Fires have been started and we don't have running water."

Source

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Me_Again

Bush hasn't beened involved in illegal activity laugh.gifblink.gifLink

He doesn't need to take cash under the table, when he is the one handing it out, under the table w00t.gif

Back on topic...I have an opinion on Bush and you are entitled to yours thumbsup.gif

I am not blaming him for the hurricane, I am posting another thread about the positive side to this story, as promised wink2.gif ...

Will do later yes.gif at work GTG wub.gif

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Michelle

Bravo, Elysiumfire... clap.gifthumbup.gif

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Me_Again

Here is a wonderful message I found, hope you like it thumbsup.gifwub.gif ...

September 5 , 2005 

---Wynton Marsalis talks about the devastation in his hometown, New Orleans--- "New Orleans is the most unique of American cities because it is the only city in the world that created its own full culture -- architecture, music and festive ceremonies. It's of singular importance to the United States of America because it was the original melting pot with a mixture of Spanish, French, British, West African and American people living in the same city. The collision of these cultures created jazz and jazz is important because it's the only art form that objectifies the fundamental principals of American democracy. That's why it swept the country and the world representing the best of the United States. New Orleanians are blues people. We are resilient, so we are sure that our city will come back. This tragedy, however, provides an opportunity for the American people to demonstrate to ourselves and to the world that we are one nation determined to overcome our legacies of injustices based on race and class. At this time, all New Orleanians need the nation to unite in a deafening crescendo of affirmation to silence that desperate cry that is this disaster. We need people with their prayers, their pocketbooks, and above all their sense of purpose to show the world just who the modern American is and then we'll put our city back together in even greater fashion. This is gut check time for all of us as Americans. In a country with the most incredible resources in the world we need the ingenuity of our best engineers to put the cultural heart of our nation back together. To put it together with 2005 technical expertise and with 2005 social consciousness, which means without accommodating the ignorance of racism and the deplorable conditions of poverty, and lack of education that have been allowed to fester in many great American cities since slavery. We're only as civilized as our level of hospitality. Let's demonstrate to the world that what actually makes America the most powerful nation on earth is not guns, pornography and material wealth but transcendent and abiding soul, something perhaps we have lost a grip on, and this catastrophe gives us a great opportunity to handle up on."

Link

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bacca

How can anyone blame someone for what happened? Yes mistakes were made big ones, huge ones....And mostly on the part of local and state officials not the president....Do you really think he wanted to go down there and see that? Do you really think that everyone is not doing everything in their power to help those who have just lost everything as you are sitting there nice and comfy at your computer rambling on and on that there is someone to blame? Its sick and I'm sorry if you don't agree with me but pointing a finger is doing nothing to help those who now have nothing........the levies didn't work, well they knew that, the levies couldn't be fixed as easy as they hoped on day one which is sad......There are troops there there are national guard and the red cross, there is the salvation army and countless church groups.....my sons school is adopting a New Orleans school to donate money to......all those things are working for those poor people.......But blaming anyone is not......you may think you are shedding light onto this problem? is that right? So just a guess but you have no clue what they are living thru? you have never personally lived thru a natural disaster where you lost everything your home your clothes your neighborhood school and possibly some friends family pets you name it everything is gone.......Its heartbreaking, and this isnt' helping them....I understand those from other countries that may not feel anything towards those people but any US citizen who doesn't care or would rather blame someone is just wrong in my book angry.gif

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Elysiumfire

Dear Bacca,

Your sad little tantrum makes quite a point, in that it has no point. You do really need to fully read all the posts before you let yourself roll with an inaccurate diatribe.

Whom are you to determine that none of the posters on this board have ever lived through a disaster? Adopting a school is a nice idea, a decent contribution, but when you look past the immediate neccessities that New Orleans required from before day one, what you start to understand are the ignorant decisions that actually cost lives through prevarication, inept thinking, and downright slow movement on behalf of the authorities that those stranded in the city relied upon.

There's not much one can do against natural forces, but there is plenty one can do against bad management..

Regards

Elysiumfire

]

Edited by Elysiumfire

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joc
Bush hasn't beened involved in illegal activity

I know you don't believe all that garbage....I hope not anyway.. original.gif

I am not blaming him for the hurricane, I am posting another thread about the positive side to this story, as promised

We look forward to reading it. unsure.giftongue.gif

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bacca
Dear Bacca,

Your sad little tantrum makes quite a point, in that it has no point. You do really need to fully read all the posts before you let yourself roll with an inaccurate diatribe.

Whom are you to determine that none of the posters on this board have ever lived through a disaster? Adopting a school is a nice idea, a decent contribution, but when you look past the immediate neccessities that New Orleans required from before day one, what you start to understand are the ignorant decisions that actually cost lives through prevarication, inept thinking, and downright slow movement on behalf of the authorities that those stranded in the city relied upon.

There's not much one can do against natural forces, but there is plenty one can do against bad management..

Regards

Elysiumfire

]

831340[/snapback]

The problem that I see here is that they did what they could...Everyone in that city was told to get out days before the storm hit, and there are still people in the city who are refusing to get out still.....Yes I am very angry about people who will blame anyone for this...And yes I get very upset when I read anything that does so please excuse the tirade but there is so much that can be done to help but that blaming never helps anyone....everyone knows mistakes were made by everyone from the people who first thought it a good idea to build the city to the people he made levies that can only withstand a category three to the residents who didn't leave and the government who took to long to get those in shelters out. Being unprepared for the storm and all that....And yes I think they need to learn from this but no matter how much people know this right now the only thing that should be concentrated on is the people.....Again I do apologize for getting so angry I suppose i've been hearing to much blame around here lately and I am angry and upset that there isn't much that I can do other then what I am doing sad.gif

Thank you to all those who care about the dead missing homeless etc. The countries that are sending help those who donate time and money the generosity of people is amazing to me.........I have gotten to see the best side of human nature with what people give I suppose.......and I do hope that everyone learns something from this.........

One more time if I offended anyone with my anger and frustration I am truly sorry sad.gif

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Faeden

In reply to magickman on the (hate and jealousy thread) I was told that if I continue to speak my mind I will face the consequences, if he means ill be banned for speaking my mind, then so be it. I will not have my thoughts dictated to. I love this site, and many people agree with me here, and many don’t I never call people names, and over look people calling me names all the time, because I really do not care, yet I am told I will face the consequences if I continue to speak my mind, and that I am arrogant, how can I take part in a public debate if I am not allowed to speak my mind ? I might have strong opinions and be harsh, but if I am not entailed to my own thoughts and opinions, then do what you have to do, because I do not call people scum, and the lowest form of life, which I have been called openly, and nothing was said, yet I state my beliefs, and I am threatened with warnings, and probably even banning. I know this will probably be deleted pretty sharply as this is not allowed, but I just wanted to defend my self, as I follow the rules mostly others don’t and nothing is said, I am no angel but compared to some I do not do half as bad. I know many wont care, and ill be criticised for my post, but I had to get out my thoughts, I feel worried about saying anything anymore, or sharing my opinions, as they will be dictated or censored.

Well, hope to talk on here soon.

All the best

Faeden

Edited by Faeden

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LarryOldtimer

This one is just for you, Faeden:

CNNUSATODAYGALLUP POLL: ONLY 13% BLAME BUSH?

Wed Sep 07 2005 10:42:26 ET

A CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll of 609 adults taken September 5-6 shows:

Blame Game -- 13% said George W. Bush is "most responsible for the problems in New Orleans after the hurricane"; 18% said "federal agencies"; 25% said "state and local officials"; 38% said "no one is to blame"; 6% had no opinion. -- 29% said that "top officials in the federal agencies responsible for handling emergencies should be fired"; 63% said they should not; 8% had no opinion.

MORE

Government Performance -- 10% said George W. Bush has done a "great" job in "responding to the hurricane and subsequent flooding"; 25% said "good"; 21% said "neither good nor bad"; 18% said "bad"; 24% said "terrible"; 2% had no opinion. -- 8% said federal government agencies responsible for handling emergencies have done a "great" job in "responding to the hurricane and subsequent flooding"; 27% said "good"; 20% said "neither good nor bad"; 20% said "bad"; 22% said "terrible"; 3% had no opinion. -- 7% said state and local officials in Louisiana have done a "great" job in "responding to the hurricane and subsequent flooding"; 30% said "good"; 23% said "neither good nor bad"; 20% said "bad"; 15% said "terrible"; 5% had no opinion.

Only the small lunatic fringe is blaming Bush . . . and they would blame Bush if a comet struck the earth, anywhere. yes.gif

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