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Sensuei

Exorcism of Anneliese Michel

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Bluefinger

If that is a legitimate recording, that is quite an sound. I can't say I've heard anything quite like it. Definitely not something to listen to in a dark room , right before bed! :wacko:

I wonder about the video technology of 1972. When this whole thing is alleged to have taken place. If a fraud, as some purport the tape to be, perhaps a video would show something amiss between the audio and the visual.

However , if this were in fact a possession, why wouldn't the church want it to be known?! And pull out all stops so as to record it in every medium. Audio/video. After all, what an advertisement for the necessity of the church, to show a young woman possessed by the very entity they are charged to save the world from!?

And since we're on the subject of video's of exorcism; *edit* Just realized I double posted a link to this.* :no:

maybe because the exocism failed? Behold, the power of Liturgy! :no:

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Imaginary Friend

The movie trailer of Emily Rose has parts of this exorcism in it.....

Russian girl exorcism recording....

Becareful....not for th easily spooked!

Fraud or no, that is one hell of a soundtrack on a moonless night, with heat lightening flaring outside now and then, when suddenly the power kicks out just as it's over! :ph34r: *cough* Or so I've heard. Yeah, that's it. :unsure2::w00t:

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Beelzebub

Someone back there said that a demon can possess you if you're a Christian. That's wrong. If you're a Christian, you're already possessed by the Spirit of Jehovah (the Holy Spirit). God does not share real estate with demons. The differences between the two kinds of possession are obvious - one is destructive and eliminates free will, the other is constructive and allows free will.

Someone else asked why a demon would want to possess a human being. Here is one theory, which I find convincing, but definitely cannot prove:

A lot of different ancient cultures have stories (including Jewish culture in the Torah/Old Testament) about supernatural or "alien" beings who mate with humans. We have those stories today with the "alien abduction" phenomena. The offspring of those matings were half-breeds: Part fallen angel and part human. Early documents describe them as "giants" and they are definitely NOT nice. Their fathers are fallen angels. They are so big that they eventually run out of things to eat, so they start eating human beings.

This is the real cause of the flood of Noah. Almost every ancient culture also has a story of a worldwide flood, which is a pretty odd co-incidence. God intended the human race to be just that - purely human - and the disasterous corruption of the fallen angels and their offspring was destroying the world. In the Torah, Noah is described as "perfect in his generations", which is a very odd phrase. I think it means that he didn't have any genetic heritage from the fallen angels, and that's why God chose him to survive the flood.

Also according to the Torah, Noah saved his three sons and their wives. I believe that one of those daughter-in-laws (a wife of his son) carried the genetic heritage of the fallen angels, because the history of the Middle East, plus a lot of other ancient cultures, includes giants after the worldwide flood.

Anyway, these half-breed giants were all drowned in the flood, but they have no spiritual destiny. They can't go to judgement because they're not human, and they can't leave the Earth because they're not angels. So they're "stuck", their spiritual half doesn't "move on" and their bodies are long gone.

I believe these are the demons that possess people. They long for a physical existance, for their old, destroyed bodies. When they take control fo a person, they do so for the same reason that you would want a lost arm replaced. You wouldn't cut off someone else's arm to replace your own - but you're not totally evil, either. They are, and they do.

This also explains all the mystic power of "Holy Water". There's nothing special about this water, demons hate ALL water. Later Jewish prophets (Old Testament) describe the demons as inhabiting "dry, desolate" places. They remember their drowning, how they lost their physical halves, and they hate water.

One of the very best techniques for excorcism is to put the possessed person in a life-preserver and sit them in the shallow end of a swimming pool or spa or something. Demons do not like water at all, and this definitely encourages them to leave.

I also believe, despite the scraps of stories we get about Annaliese Michel, that no demon is granted the power to kill, no matter what the possessed person did to invite that demon inside. They are tormentors, they are not allowed to be killers. This may not have been true before Christ's resurrection, but I believe it's true today.

Of course, the possessed person may be so overwhelmed or evil that they choose death while possessed. That's a different issue, and yes, there are evil people who very much enjoy being possessed by demons, and view it as a great priviledge. There's no point in doing exorcisms on them.

I don't know what happened to Annaliese, but I do know that there is no excuse for her death, possessed or just crazy.

As for the demons naming themselves as Nero, Hitler, etc., it's incredibly dangerous to listen to anything a demon says. No conversations. Yes, some demons are peons and smart-alecks and they will not trick you into doing something evil. But some are NOT peons and if they talk to you for three minutes they can convince you to kill everyone you love and as many strangers as possible, and you will feel GREAT about it. It's not supernatural, it's just the effect of arguing with a 5,000 year-old meta-genius who is pure evil.

Given that caveat, it's actually possible that many of the names which Annaliese' demons gave were accurate - there is a lot of historical and prophetic material to indicate that those "big names" were able to accomplish their catastrophic evil because they were possessed by demons who are very, very high in the chain of command.

I mean, you look at Hitler killing 6 million of Jehovah's chosen people in only 4 years - is it so hard to believe he was being driven by a demon? Likewise, look what Nero did to the first Christians. I'm not saying those names are correct, but it's possible.

The promise of Christ is that we are placed *above* the angels, fallen or othewise. We are given power over all of creation on a level with Christ himself. IF Annaliese was possessed by the same demon who was in Nero or Hitler, or by Satan himself, it doesn't matter. We are possessed by the Spirit of Jehovah, and He is the one who has power over all. The death and resurrection of Christ gave us all the power to be called "sons [daughters] of God", just as Jesus was. We're made of pure human flesh, unlike Jesus, so we can't be perfect in our bodies. But the Holy Spirit inside us is perfect, and that makes all the difference when confronting any kind of evil.

I skimmed this thread, but I came across this and thought I would correct you with a little Demonology 101. I'm sure you've heard of Leviathan, yes? You honestly think that he would hate water? Holy water maybe. But his name is practically synonymous with 'water beast' anymore. Infact, in the Old Testament he was a sea monster. (Psalms 74:13-14; Job 41; Isaiah 27:1).

So I'm going to tell you firstly, there are demons in accordance with each of the four elements. Wind, water, fire, and air. But neither is afraid of the other, and any can possess a human, regardless of what their religion is. Yes, some demons raped humans and had offspring. These creatures, I assure you, will rest in hell in a post-judgement day world. But, for now, no demon is restricted to hell. Only damned human souls are. Think of hell as a... Headquarters for demons with a jail for humans. Demons may come and go as they like between hell and earth, but humans may not.

Now, you're right, demons can't kill or force anyone to commit suicide. Yes, they can influence someone to do those things, and they can beat a human seneless, in both body and spirit, but not kill; and they are only allowed to beat someone spiritually and physically if that person does not de facto any religion, and I'll come back to this later and tell you how to save yourself.

Hitler, Nero, Stalin, etc., all of these people were not demons themselves nor were they possessed by demons. That I can assure you. Think of them like... People who are raised by demons, nurtured by demons, taught by demons, and protected by demons. They went under the wings of demons, or so to speak. No demon is a peon, for even the lowest ranking demon or angel has more intelligence than even the most brilliant person - Solomon included. This is why Solomon himself spoke to, you guessed it! Beelzebub Himself.

Here is the dialogue.

And I summoned again to stand before me Beelzeboul, the prince of demons, and I sat him down on a raised seat of honour, and said to him: "Why art thou alone, prince of the demons?" And he said to me: "Because I alone am left of the angels of heaven that came down. For I was first angel in the first heaven, being entitled Beelzeboul. And now I control all who are bound in Tartarus . . . "

I Solomon said unto him: "Beelzeboul, what is thy employment?" And he answered me: "I destroy kings. I ally myself with foreign tyrants. And my own demons I set on to men, in order that the latter may believe in them and be lost. And the chosen servants of God, priests and faithful men, I excite unto desires for wicked sins, and evil heresies, and lawless deeds; and they obey me, and I bear them on to destruction. And I inspire men with envy, and murder, and for wars and sodomy, and other evil things. And I will destroy the world . . . "

I said to him: "Tell me by what angel thou art frustrated." And he answered: "By the holy and precious name of the Almighty God, called by the Hebrews by a row of numbers, of which the sum is 644, and among the Greeks it is Emmanuel. And if one of the Romans adjure me by the name of the power Eleêth, I disappear at once."

-- Testament of Solomon, first century AD, translated by F. C. Coynbeare

Beelzeboul is Beelzebub, which is hebrew for Lord of the Flies.

If Mary, Jesus, The Holy Spirit, or God commands a demon to speak the truth, then he must. Lucifer/Satan included. And he will tell the truth, the whole truth.

Even if you are not religious you can see some things here that are very true in modern society. World leaders for the most part are greedy. They are not religious, and they are in war, civil or international. And religiously, they are indifferent. This is the will of Satan, and this is what Beelzebub is talking about. He doesn't tell them directly in most cases to do his bidding, but he gives them the power and then fills them with the thoughts to do it. And they follow Him, while not even knowing it. Like a blind sheep trusting his shepard.

Now - Back on the topic of saving yourself. Look into the archangels. They all hold individual purpose. If you go under their wings, demons, including Lucifer cannot touch you. They cannot hurt you. And you will live a good life. Satanists become Satanists because they want earthly desires, I.E. wealth, power, women, etc. But they are not happy.

Money can buy a book, but not knowledge. It can buy women, but not love, and it can buy a Bible, but not faith. Get what I mean here?

Demons... why they possess. Boredom, usually. I'm being serious. To cause misery to the person and the family, but most of all - Because they can. Which demon possesses people? Any. Even Beelzebub has been known to do so.

But I want you to realize something. To Them, you are a peon. Insignificant speck on the ass of society. And always will be. But wisdom is an infinite well in which you are standing next to with a bucket. Dip it in and take as much as you want. Learn of the demons, and learn of the Angels.

One more thing. I skimmed over the speaking in tongues part... No. They don't speak 'random languages'. It's usually Latin. I've never heard a possessed person speak in say, French, or Farsi, Swahili, etc. Demons know all languages, I mean, come on, they've been here forever and have perfect intelligence. But they choose latin over others. Why? This is the first language of the Roman Catholic church. Just like the upside down cross, it is small way of mocking the Roman Catholics.

Be warned about demonology though;

A daemonibus docetur, de daemonibus docet, et ad daemones ducit.

P.s. Anneliese Michel was not possessed. Trust me. I know.

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Methos1

I can post a link to a few claimed real pictures of Anneliese Michel,but when others saw them on this very board they were offended and upset that no warning was posted. So for those interested i will post a link and for those who will be offended THIS IS YOUR WARNING because people jumped all over the guy who posted them before.

Many said it was wrong to show pics of her in that condition and others said it is make up or fake but many changed their minds also, so it is up to you.

So let me know.

Edited by Methos1

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Beelzebub

Private message me them. Or add me on MSN and send them there.

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Imaginary Friend

I must have missed that post of her actual possession stills, so please PM me as well. :)

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Boltwave

Ummm, why not just say it was me that posted the thread???

Anyways, here's the link:

http://www.wdr.de/tv/monitor/real.phtml?bid=757&sid=138

There you'll find a segment of her recordings and images, of course you may also find them in my thread I posted in the paranormal section called "Pictures of Anneliese Michel"

Here's the link to the thread:

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...showtopic=64450

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Beckys_Mom

Ummm, why not just say it was me that posted the thread???

Anyways, here's the link:

http://www.wdr.de/tv/monitor/real.phtml?bid=757&sid=138

There you'll find a segment of her recordings and images, of course you may also find them in my thread I posted in the paranormal section called "Pictures of Anneliese Michel"

Here's the link to the thread:

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...showtopic=64450

But its fine posted here too...here is WHY

There is no rule against starting a thread to discuss a subject which has already been discussed. An old topic being discussed by new members brings new information to light, new opinions and can lead to entirely different conclusions.

If there is an existing topic running on the same subject at the same time then it's fair to request that you use that topic rather than having two running simultaneously, but if it's been a while since the topic has been discussed then a new thread on that subject is perfectly acceptable.

:innocent:

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Boltwave

But its fine posted here too...here is WHY

:innocent:

That's completely irrelevant, what was the purpose of even mentioning that?

Tell me your not trying to be a pain in the ass by following me around are you? :rolleyes:

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Beckys_Mom

That's completely irrelevant, what was the purpose of even mentioning that?

Tell me your not trying to be a pain in the ass by following me around are you? :rolleyes:

LOL dont flatter yourself Bolty I dont like you THAT MUCH :w00t:^_^ and the OP has a right to post what he/she likes ^_^

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Imaginary Friend

Ummm, why not just say it was me that posted the thread???

Anyways, here's the link:

http://www.wdr.de/tv/monitor/real.phtml?bid=757&sid=138

There you'll find a segment of her recordings and images, of course you may also find them in my thread I posted in the paranormal section called "Pictures of Anneliese Michel"

Here's the link to the thread:

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...showtopic=64450

I see the small pic. However, the larger still at the photo server does not load! :hmm:

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Methos1

Hello again Boltwave,

I was surprised many on this thread missed the first thread about this and since you seemed to get some moaning from others on the other thread even though they did not have to look at the pics, so i figured i would try and spare you the complaints on this thread if they were warned before i put a link from the pics on your first post to the thread here.

Edited by Methos1

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Boltwave

Hello again Boltwave,

I was surprised many on this thread missed the first thread about this and since you seemed to get some moaning from others on the other thread even though they did not have to look at the pics, so i figured i would try and spare you the complaints on this thread if they were warned before i put a link from the pics on your first post to the thread here.

Meh, I don't care that much, just curious and wanted to know if you knew it was me or not.

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mypaddedroom

I just watched the movie last night(Emily Rose) For the very first time.

Creepy stuff At the moment I'm listening to the audio posted.... wow also creepy stuff!

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Rendwich

*** I skimmed this thread, but I came across this and thought I would correct you with a little Demonology 101. I'm sure you've heard of Leviathan, yes? You honestly think that he would hate water? Holy water maybe. But his name is practically synonymous with 'water beast' anymore. Infact, in the Old Testament he was a sea monster.

It's a "sea monster" by your own words. I agree 100% that sea monsters like water. What does this have to do with demons? You are making no sense so far.

*** So I'm going to tell you firstly, there are demons in accordance with each of the four elements. Wind, water, fire, and air.

It makes a great video game or perhaps Dante's "Inferno", but it's wrong. You're making fallen angels and their offspring into Aristotlean anthropomorphisms. Which they definitely are not.

*** But neither is afraid of the other, and any can possess a human, regardless of what their religion is."

The Holy Spirit does not share real estate with demons, plain and simple. I can't speak for other religions but I can speak for truly "born again" Christians - already possessed by the most powerful force in the Universe, with diplomatic immunity from the Prince of the Power of the Air.

*** Yes, some demons raped humans and had offspring.

There's nothing in the most reliable and ancient documents to indicate rape. I'm not saying it's impossible, but the vast, vast majority of these matings were in the context of consentual marriage. Humanity bears equal responsibility with the fallen angels for these pairiings.

*** These creatures, I assure you, will rest in hell in a post-judgement day world. But, for now, no demon is restricted to hell. Only damned human souls are. Think of hell as a... Headquarters for demons with a jail for humans. Demons may come and go as they like between hell and earth, but humans may not."

Again, this is great for Saturday morning cartoons and post-Julianus Africanus Catholics, but for those with even a most primitive understanding of metaphysics, this is pure crap. The fathers of the pre-flood demons are being held as prisoners in Tartarus, a place *different* than Hell, until the final judgement. The devil, other fallen angels, and the demons do not spend any time in Hell at all. The devil is the current ruler of this world. Why would he go to a place of torment?

There is no record in *any* ancient text of Satan ruling over Hell. None. It was always known and written that Satan is the ruler of the Earth. Not forever, but for now.

*** they are only allowed to beat someone spiritually and physically if that person does not de facto any religion, and I'll come back to this later and tell you how to save yourself.

"de facto" is not a verb, it is an adjective meaning "default". You earlier wrote that anyone could be possessed, regardless of religion, now you're writing that only those without any religion can be attacked. Seems very self-contradictory.

*** Hitler, Nero, Stalin, etc., all of these people were not demons themselves nor were they possessed by demons. That I can assure you. Think of them like... People who are raised by demons, nurtured by demons, taught by demons, and protected by demons. They went under the wings of demons, or so to speak.

Well, it's an interesting theory, but the writings in Daniel and Revelation, along with scattered relerences by Isaiah and Ezekiel, contrafict your claim. Given their history and accuracy, I'm sticking with them.

*** No demon is a peon, for even the lowest ranking demon or angel has more intelligence than even the most brilliant person - Solomon included. This is why Solomon himself spoke to, you guessed it! Beelzebub Himself.

The "Testament of Solomon" is well-known to me, but the fact that it makes its first historical appearance 1100 years after Solomon's death places it's squarely in the "same as a comic book" camp.

*** 'Why art thou alone, prince of the demons?' And he said to me: 'Because I alone am left of the angels of heaven that came down. For I was first angel in the first heaven, being entitled Beelzeboul. And now I control all who are bound in Tartarus . . . '

Here he says he is the last of the fallen angels, and that he controls Tarturus - which is not the Judeo-Christian Hell, but a special holding place for the fallen angels who married human wives.

*** '... And my own demons I set on to men, in order that the latter may believe in them and be lost.'

So despite being all alone among the fallen angels, he now has his own demons - what does that tell you?

*** I said to him: 'Tell me by what angel thou art frustrated.' And he answered: 'By the holy and precious name of the Almighty God, called by the Hebrews by a row of numbers, of which the sum is 644, and among the Greeks it is Emmanuel. And if one of the Romans adjure me by the name of the power Eleêth, I disappear at once.'

The Romans were *nothing* during the life of Solomon, they weren't even a recognized nation or people. That came later. Which shows how worthless this text is for finding real truth.

*** Now - Back on the topic of saving yourself. Look into the archangels. They all hold individual purpose. If you go under their wings, demons, including Lucifer cannot touch you. They cannot hurt you. And you will live a good life.

It's just the same way that the fallen angels were worshipped before the flood. Angels are simply the tools of God's will, nothing more. Appealling to them directly is even stupider than appealling to a demon or fallen angel. At least with the fallen ones, you have a tiny chance of being noticed and getting something. With the true angels of God, they only do what the LORD commands them - so that's Who you better get busy trusting and praising and petitioning.

*** Demons... why they possess. Boredom, usually. I'm being serious. To cause misery to the person and the family, but most of all - Because they can. Which demon possesses people? Any. Even Beelzebub has been known to do so.

"Boredom" is cracking me up! Surely you can do better than that.

*** Learn of the demons, and learn of the Angels.

A recipe for eternal separation from God. Learn of the Creator, whom we can know through the willing sacrifice of Jesus. The rest of this "wisdom" you speak of is mostly lies and definitely death.

*** Demons know all languages, I mean, come on, they've been here forever and have perfect intelligence.

Perfect intelligence! Know all languages? Do you have any idea what you're implying here?

*** P.s. Anneliese Michel was not possessed. Trust me. I know.

Seriously, give us something we can latch onto besides "trust me."

Edited by Rendwich

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LeraG

*** I skimmed this thread, but I came across this and thought I would correct you with a little Demonology 101. I'm sure you've heard of Leviathan, yes? You honestly think that he would hate water? Holy water maybe. But his name is practically synonymous with 'water beast' anymore. Infact, in the Old Testament he was a sea monster.

It's a "sea monster" by your own words. I agree 100% that sea monsters like water. What does this have to do with demons? You are making no sense so far.

*** So I'm going to tell you firstly, there are demons in accordance with each of the four elements. Wind, water, fire, and air.

It makes a great video game or perhaps Dante's "Inferno", but it's wrong. You're making fallen angels and their offspring into Aristotlean anthropomorphisms. Which they definitely are not.

*** But neither is afraid of the other, and any can possess a human, regardless of what their religion is."

The Holy Spirit does not share real estate with demons, plain and simple. I can't speak for other religions but I can speak for truly "born again" Christians - already possessed by the most powerful force in the Universe, with diplomatic immunity from the Prince of the Power of the Air.

*** Yes, some demons raped humans and had offspring.

There's nothing in the most reliable and ancient documents to indicate rape. I'm not saying it's impossible, but the vast, vast majority of these matings were in the context of consentual marriage. Humanity bears equal responsibility with the fallen angels for these pairiings.

*** These creatures, I assure you, will rest in hell in a post-judgement day world. But, for now, no demon is restricted to hell. Only damned human souls are. Think of hell as a... Headquarters for demons with a jail for humans. Demons may come and go as they like between hell and earth, but humans may not."

Again, this is great for Saturday morning cartoons and post-Julianus Africanus Catholics, but for those with even a most primitive understanding of metaphysics, this is pure crap. The fathers of the pre-flood demons are being held as prisoners in Tartarus, a place *different* than Hell, until the final judgement. The devil, other fallen angels, and the demons do not spend any time in Hell at all. The devil is the current ruler of this world. Why would he go to a place of torment?

There is no record in *any* ancient text of Satan ruling over Hell. None. It was always known and written that Satan is the ruler of the Earth. Not forever, but for now.

*** they are only allowed to beat someone spiritually and physically if that person does not de facto any religion, and I'll come back to this later and tell you how to save yourself.

"de facto" is not a verb, it is an adjective meaning "default". You earlier wrote that anyone could be possessed, regardless of religion, now you're writing that only those without any religion can be attacked. Seems very self-contradictory.

*** Hitler, Nero, Stalin, etc., all of these people were not demons themselves nor were they possessed by demons. That I can assure you. Think of them like... People who are raised by demons, nurtured by demons, taught by demons, and protected by demons. They went under the wings of demons, or so to speak.

Well, it's an interesting theory, but the writings in Daniel and Revelation, along with scattered relerences by Isaiah and Ezekiel, contrafict your claim. Given their history and accuracy, I'm sticking with them.

*** No demon is a peon, for even the lowest ranking demon or angel has more intelligence than even the most brilliant person - Solomon included. This is why Solomon himself spoke to, you guessed it! Beelzebub Himself.

The "Testament of Solomon" is well-known to me, but the fact that it makes its first historical appearance 1100 years after Solomon's death places it's squarely in the "same as a comic book" camp.

*** 'Why art thou alone, prince of the demons?' And he said to me: 'Because I alone am left of the angels of heaven that came down. For I was first angel in the first heaven, being entitled Beelzeboul. And now I control all who are bound in Tartarus . . . '

Here he says he is the last of the fallen angels, and that he controls Tarturus - which is not the Judeo-Christian Hell, but a special holding place for the fallen angels who married human wives.

*** '... And my own demons I set on to men, in order that the latter may believe in them and be lost.'

So despite being all alone among the fallen angels, he now has his own demons - what does that tell you?

*** I said to him: 'Tell me by what angel thou art frustrated.' And he answered: 'By the holy and precious name of the Almighty God, called by the Hebrews by a row of numbers, of which the sum is 644, and among the Greeks it is Emmanuel. And if one of the Romans adjure me by the name of the power Eleêth, I disappear at once.'

The Romans were *nothing* during the life of Solomon, they weren't even a recognized nation or people. That came later. Which shows how worthless this text is for finding real truth.

*** Now - Back on the topic of saving yourself. Look into the archangels. They all hold individual purpose. If you go under their wings, demons, including Lucifer cannot touch you. They cannot hurt you. And you will live a good life.

It's just the same way that the fallen angels were worshipped before the flood. Angels are simply the tools of God's will, nothing more. Appealling to them directly is even stupider than appealling to a demon or fallen angel. At least with the fallen ones, you have a tiny chance of being noticed and getting something. With the true angels of God, they only do what the LORD commands them - so that's Who you better get busy trusting and praising and petitioning.

*** Demons... why they possess. Boredom, usually. I'm being serious. To cause misery to the person and the family, but most of all - Because they can. Which demon possesses people? Any. Even Beelzebub has been known to do so.

"Boredom" is cracking me up! Surely you can do better than that.

*** Learn of the demons, and learn of the Angels.

A recipe for eternal separation from God. Learn of the Creator, whom we can know through the willing sacrifice of Jesus. The rest of this "wisdom" you speak of is mostly lies and definitely death.

*** Demons know all languages, I mean, come on, they've been here forever and have perfect intelligence.

Perfect intelligence! Know all languages? Do you have any idea what you're implying here?

*** P.s. Anneliese Michel was not possessed. Trust me. I know.

Seriously, give us something we can latch onto besides "trust me."

I'm waiting for a response to this too! Why does that person feel that Anneliese wasn't possessed? WAITING TOO!!!

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Imaginary Friend

I'm waiting for a response to this too! Why does that person feel that Anneliese wasn't possessed? WAITING TOO!!!

:lol: Why wait any longer!? No one can discount the veracity of AM's possession utilizing the statement; "trust me I know". Why should we trust them, when they say they know? That is not evidence to discount what we've heard and what was witnessed of the event itself. The evidence relative to AM's condition is documented. Whereas, "Trust me I know", is not. ;)

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LeraG

:lol: Why wait any longer!? No one can discount the veracity of AM's possession utilizing the statement; "trust me I know". Why should we trust them, when they say they know? That is not evidence to discount what we've heard and what was witnessed of the event itself. The evidence relative to AM's condition is documented. Whereas, "Trust me I know", is not. ;)

Oh so true, I just wanted to hear the explanation this person would give. ;)

I heard the director state that a woman orginally wrote about AM story and that book was out of print. Does anyone know what the title is, author, or if indeed it is still out of pring?

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Imaginary Friend

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seanph
I'm waiting for a response to this too! Why does that person feel that Anneliese wasn't possessed? WAITING TOO!!!

I can't speak for "that person" ... But AM was not possessed. Sadly she was diagnosed, and suffered terribly from, Temporal Lobe Epilepsy.

... The psychiatrists, who had been ordered by the court, talked about "Doctrinaire Induction." Saying the Priests offered Anneliese the contents of her psychotic behavior, consequentially she later assumed the behavior of a demonically possessed person. Also an unsettled sexual development, along with the diagnosed Temporal Lobe Epilepsy influenced Anneliese's psychosis...

Even a commission of the German Bishop-Conference later declared that Anneliese was not possessed. In fact, it was her case that spurred the Vatican to edit its Exorcism Rite for the first time since 1614!

What's even more sad about this story, is that ... Short time before these events, William Friedkin's The Exorcist came to the cinemas in Germany (1974), and started a paranormal hysteria all over the land. Psychiatrists all over Europe, reported an increase of obsessive ideas in their patients. For the prosecutors, the factual situation is more than bizarre, and it took almost two years, until the "Klingenberg Case" was brought to court...

http://www.ropeofsilicon.com/news.php?id=2507

AM was a very sick, religiously hypersensitive, young lady. She was not possessed by Hitler et al. She was mentally ill--a fact attested to even by the Church. And why the heck are those who claim to be possessed ... always possessed by Hitler, Nero et al?! This is so ridiculous. If it wasn't so damned tragic, it would be funny.

Demons are about as real as elves. Such things are the inventions of uneducated people, in an ancient mystical time, who were trying to understand the complex workings of their world. Perfectly understandable.

Sean

Edited by seanph

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Boltwave

Demons are about as real as elves. Such things are the inventions of uneducated people, in an ancient mystical time, who were trying to understand the complex workings of their world. Perfectly understandable.

Sean

I'm not going to go into detail about this subject, but I wouldn't doubt the probability or the likeness of their existences, I have read many accounts of where priests have addressed atheism to demons themselves (if you can think in a hypothetical way as in 'they do exist like you and I') and what I know is that they have stated "they're not intellects, they're mediocres!"

I can't say that God isn't real, and I can't say that demons aren't either, as far as I know, whether we see it for ourselves or can just assume, never doubt the supernatural. :no:

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Methos1

Hello seanph,

AM was a very sick, religiously hypersensitive, young lady. She was not possessed by Hitler et al. She was mentally ill--a fact attested to even by the Church. And why the heck are those who claim to be possessed ... always possessed by Hitler, Nero et al?! This is so ridiculous. If it wasn't so damned tragic, it would be funny./Quote

From reading different info about her possession the demons claim to be those who dwelled inside or possessed Nero, Hitler etc. and did not claim to be the people them selves possessing her. Just my 2 cents.

Thanks

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Boltwave

Hello seanph,

AM was a very sick, religiously hypersensitive, young lady. She was not possessed by Hitler et al. She was mentally ill--a fact attested to even by the Church. And why the heck are those who claim to be possessed ... always possessed by Hitler, Nero et al?! This is so ridiculous. If it wasn't so damned tragic, it would be funny./Quote

From reading different info about her possession the demons claim to be those who dwelled inside or possessed Nero, Hitler etc. and did not claim to be the people them selves possessing her. Just my 2 cents.

Thanks

He's right actually. :yes:

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seanph
rom reading different info about her possession the demons claim to be those who dwelled inside or possessed Nero, Hitler etc. and did not claim to be the people them selves possessing her. Just my 2 cents.

Morning M1. The priest claimed she was possessed by the individuals of Lucifer, Judas Iscariot, Nero, Cain, Hitler and Fleischmann, a disgraced Frankish Priest from the 16th century, and some other "Damned".

In September 1975, after an exact verification, the Bishop of Würzburg, Josef Stangl, assigns Father Arnold Renz and Pastor Ernst Alt with the order, to perform "The Great Exorcism" on Anneliese Michel. The basis for this ritual is the "Rituale Romanum," a still valid canon law from the 17th century, as Pastor Alt and Father Renz try to save Anneliese from over six individuals (Lucifer, Judas Iscariot, Nero, Cain, Hitler and Fleischmann, a disgraced Frankish Priest from the 16th century, and some other "Damned"), which are believed to manifest thru her...

I have read many accounts of where priests have addressed atheism to demons themselves

Morning BW. Well, Christians were called atheists in the first and second centuries because they did not partake in the worship of Roman gods. I wonder what these priests would have to say about that little quirk of history? Oh ... the irony! ;)

That said, if I'm possessed by a demon, why do I treat people kindly (most of the time), do good things for others whenever able, and not suffer horrible demonic attacks like AM suffered?

Respectfully,

Sean

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Boltwave

Morning BW. Well, Christians were called atheists in the first and second centuries because they did not partake in the worship of Roman gods. I wonder what these priests would have to say about that little quirk of history? Oh ... the irony! ;)

Yeah but the definition of the word has changed, at least as far as I remember. :huh:

That said, if I'm possessed by a demon, why do I treat people kindly (most of the time), do good things for others whenever able, and not suffer horrible demonic attacks like AM suffered?

Not sure if that's what I implied, I was just saying that from what I've heard if demons really do exist than they're looking at atheists like we would look at a monkey from the zoo, that too me just sounded like an interesting concept to share when priests have sometimes often mentioned atheism (as in no God and no demons) during exorcisms of confrontations of supernatural beings and what they thought of the whole issue, not very nice I agree, but then we are talking about evil spirits. ;)

Edited by Boltwave

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