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Sensuei

Exorcism of Anneliese Michel

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Methos1

Hello seanp,

I guess as usual it depends on what you read-The basis for this ritual was the "Rituale Romanum", which was still, at the time, a valid Cannon Law from the 17th century. It was determined that Anneliese must be saved from the possession by several demons, including Lucifer, Judas Iscariot, Nero, Cain, Hitler, and Fleischmann, a disgraced Frankish Priest from the 16th century, and some other damned souls which had manifested through her.

:tu:

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Radian

Hiya folks..

Im veeeeeery new here...came across this site just now.... my first post--- so please I beg for you, regulars, bare with my ignorance. :blush: . Ive been searching (researching- profusely) Anneliese Michel for a quite some time now. I dont know what's been found, such as transcripts, audio, priest's transcript..etc.. In b/t interpretating the German..geeez, it gives me a headache, and reading the same spewd "opinionated" dressed up as facts crap is about to make me pull my hair out.....

Now, Im not exactly a Dr. in Psychology, but close enough, I suppose, for the time being.... I recieved a masters in Criminology/abnormal Psychology, and work with the abnormal of the abnormal.... I'm not exactly stuuuupid when it comes to the Psychoanalysis explanations of this case (in particular), or willing to accept any given psychological hypothesis (aka; so called "fact") of an explanation is my point. ----

I am convinced there was much much more going on inside of Annelies Michel than what has been given justice by the press/media, professionals, everyone. This (my opionion) has nothing to do with religion, this has everything to do with spirit, and supreme spiritual manipulation.

Sunny

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Boltwave

Hi Sunny98, welcome to UM. :D

That's an interesting ideal concept, I think when the issue boils down you have to admit that is most likely true. :yes:

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Radian

Hi Sunny98, welcome to UM. :D

That's an interesting ideal concept, I think when the issue boils down you have to admit that is most likely true. :yes:

Thanks so much for the welcome!! :D ..You have no idea how excited I am about coming across this forum---There is so much I just want to get off my chest here.....I have held in so much until last night I had to vent...I am sorry if i offended anyone..

No misunderstandings here!!!! I am convinced she was possessed by spiritual entity(s)/ demon(s). I DO NOT have a doubt in my mind. I say that while researching and keeping an open mind, and attempting to keep rational while doing so. I truly didn't think she was when I started the research......However, I have changed my mind.

I have seen the movie I remember thinking "well, her symptoms could be very well stemming from a mental disorder(s)." After filtering the hollywood drama, I could see that most certainly.

The *first* thing (and Ill mention that right now) was the history of her EEGs and the dates of those taken, not to mention the results (negative). So during the first few years of "demonic harrassment" & catatonic symtoms, the scans are being done, and resulting negative, with the "diagnosis of" epeleptic seizures/ depression...how do you get that (harrassment, physical symptoms) from that (siezures, depression)? It wasn't until years after taking Tegratol daily that a "slight" glimmish shows on the dadgum scan...Years after her avid complaints......And her complaints started, in fact, 2 years prior to the "exorcist" movie....and I have more.... (sigh)

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h4ck3r4chr1s7
SpringhealedJack

I am astounded that anyone actually believes this story was anything other than mental illness and corrupt priests that are responsible for her death. Its people who fantasise about this being real, that are the ones that keep these stupid superstitious alive which resulted in the death of Anneliese, and has also caused countless others around the world that have mental problems, that have not gotten the proper help, because some delusional priest thinks its "Satan"

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h4ck3r4chr1s7

I am astounded that anyone actually believes this story was anything other than mental illness and corrupt priests that are responsible for her death. Its people who fantasise about this being real, that are the ones that keep these stupid superstitious alive which resulted in the death of Anneliese, and has also caused countless others around the world that have mental problems, that have not gotten the proper help, because some delusional priest thinks its "Satan"

I have researched this case for sometime. When I first started I kept an open mind to possiblities, not religion. I would agree in most exorcisms to people that believed are possessed have a negative prospective in the mind.

Applying to what is stated above to a person who believes is possessed will result in more negative energy and fear. However after researching both sides of this paricular case, I still couldn't decide.

Her medical exams and EEG's were negative and clean and the medicine had no affect on her whatsoever. I don't recall her having any disorders or similiar incidents as a child. How she spoke languages she had never encountered or had never been exposed to is beyond me. What really leaves a splinter in my mind is when her body was exhumed for examination, no one not even the parents got to see if her body was still intact.After the mayor took the body in the presence of forensic pathologists in inspection,according to its data, it was prevented by policemen from the entrance to the mortuary. Hastily the corpse of the young girl is again buried still on the same day. What did the authorities want to hide? Was the body of the Anneliese Michel actually intact? Was the proof for the "grace of God" hushed up? And thus at the same time the proof for the existence of the devil?

Is the devil a symbolic concept of evil or do demons and angels have an objective existence?

"I know that we did the right thing because I saw the sign of Christ in her hands. She was bearing stigmata and that was a sign from God that we should exorcise the demons. She died to save other lost souls, to atone for their sins." - Anna Michel (Anneliese's mother, 2005)

I'm not trying to gravitate towards a certain side of the story, but if you read up on the other side of the story you'll find yourself in a nuetral state to where you will realize after 30 years only the same questions remain unanswered. People find it disturbing to see her images and other material posted on the internet but she has her part in history just like everything else.

"What if no military officer paid attention to the Holocaust when it was discovered. A large part of humanity would of been tortured and killed, without there story being told to the world."

-Azalin

No one can really state that she was possessed or not because it makes you look at your own religious inventory and decide what new possiblities and information you are willing to take in whether you are Christian or not.The medical treatment had not done any good and the medical tests were clean yet she still suffered. Some questions are up to the viewer to decide but there are so inexplicable.

In short, learn the other religious half of the story to its full extent. I wasn't really religious until this case came along.

Either side leads to a dead end. The main significance is possibility.

...................................................... :unsure2:

Edited by h4ck3r4chr1s7

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Methos1

Hello and thanks for posting the links. Anyone listened to these yet and want to give an opinion of what they thought and if they are worth downloading or an overview of what they are?

Thanks

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redhen

Hello and thanks for posting the links. Anyone listened to these yet and want to give an opinion of what they thought and if they are worth downloading or an overview of what they are?

Thanks

I found only three links there that had audio, all of them had the same thing.

Ich bin zwar Deutsche, und Ich hab uberhaupt gar nichts verstanden von diesem audio.

You guys can try to run this through Bablefish or whatever translater you want but it won't help. It's nothing but growling and shrieking garbage.

I could mimic the same thing if I wanted too.

If you have any recording that has any audible human language in it to translate, let me know.

Tschuss

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Radian

The medical treatment had not done any good and the medical tests were clean yet she still suffered. Some questions are up to the viewer to decide but there are so inexplicable.

In short, learn the other religious half of the story to its full extent. I wasn't really religious until this case came along.

Either side leads to a dead end. The main significance is possibility.

...................................................... :unsure2:

I suppose it would sum it all up for everyone that it boils down to what a person is *willing to accept* or not, ya think?

I have put my time in the study of this case as well-- & what unsettles me

more than anything is the focus of the "mental disorders" as a justifiable excuse in her actions ( so- called signs of possession)...(Ie, depression, and epilepsy). When the truth is, it just doesnt add up. --- The depression for the most part is apparent. From what information I have recieved- and studied-- the symptoms/diagnosis, or assumptions of epileptic seizures, even schizophrenic tendencies, & dissasociative Identity disorder are not so apparent,. Her actions/ behaviors were so far end of the spectrum, even the most serious cases of schizophrenia/DID doesn't even touch it-- that Im aware of! Not according to the DSM_IV, it doesn't.... {{Unless someone sends me authentic information from authentic resources showing otherwise from her study}} I went into this study with the notion* she was a possible schizophrenic, DID victim who was assumed/ or "accused" to be possessed by the church and died as a consequence. She was a victim of the church and the Dr.s who diagnosed/treated her & I dont think that anylonger-- :devil::innocent:

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SpringhealedJack

Sunny its not a matter of what I am willing to personally accept, I believe in God, angels, ghosts UFOs and all sorts of things others would consider stupid, I only disbelieve in this because its screaming bullsh1t, I even believe that demonic possession is possible (not by Satan or fallen angels, I believe in demons in a different way than the churches myths) but I have studied many cases of exorcisms, and seen the recent people training to be exorcists in Rome. Now the fact is Satan and Satanic possession is not real, its just the propaganda for the church, so they can be given a job. Think about it what if people realised the truth, and that Satan did not exist, and that its down to the individual personals responsibility for there wrong doings, or in this case mental illness, and that it was not Satan that made me do this or that, it is up to us as individual with free will to own up to our evil actions, the church would be out of a job. Not that Annaliese had a choice of free will, as she was mentally ill, but I am making a point that if Satan was real it would be an insult to our God given right of free will.

The church targets the mentally ill so they can induce more fear onto people, so they can stay in business, I don’t really understand why I have to be explaining this, its just obvious.

I remember reading about a case similar to this religious neglect of priests and parents, where a girl whose 2 sisters brought her into the emergency room. Reason, well because the girl confessed that she'd been having lustful thoughts, and these fundamentalists took the Bible literally and removed her eyeballs in an attempt to save her soul. And the girl sat rocking, wiping her blood-streaming eye-sockets, screaming "THANK YOU JESUS! THANK YOU JESUS!"

Then the fundamentalists become accused as being possessed when the story got out to the public, and the priests got some good work out of the mental illness caused by stupid superstition.

Here is something I found..............

Exorcisms are in vogue again. Evangelists like Bob Larson roam the country performing “deliverances” on (and profiting from) members of his audience that he convinces have demons in them. Similar deliverances are conducted in churches and by ministries around the world – including Russia, on which I reported in the article “Exorcism in Russia.”

Even the Catholic Church, which for decades kept exorcism in the closet, is once again bringing it out into the open. In early 2005, about 100 Catholic priests signed up for a Vatican-sanctioned course on exorcism, and today the Church’s ranks of official exorcists has swollen to more than 400.

No doubt about it. The interest in expelling demonic forces is high and growing. And when a film like The Exorcism of Emily Rose hits the theaters, fascination increases – especially when it is promoted as being based on a true story.

The same thing happened when The Exorcist shocked viewers back in 1973, a story also said to be inspired by true events.

What’s going on? Is there really an increase in demonic activity and possession of humans? Or are we becoming increasingly superstitious, blaming extraordinary psychiatric and physical ailments on the Devil, much as people did in the unenlightened Middle Ages?

No Evidence

The truth is, there is no evidence whatsoever for the idea of demonic possession.

I have been researching paranormal phenomena for many years, and have never come across or read about one plausible case of possession that could not be explained better as mental illness, physical ailments and hoaxes. (Psychic phenomena might be evident in some rare cases.) There is good evidence for ghost and haunting phenomena, Bigfoot, psychic phenomena and many other areas of the paranormal, but there is no good evidence for demonic possession. If there is, I'd like to see it.

As you can now tell, I am highly skeptical on this matter. And to be fair, I have never attended an exorcism or personally encountered a person thought to be possessed, but even those who have cannot seem to produce the slightest bit of evidence. No film, video or photos of levitation or other supernatural events – although they are often claimed to take place during exorcisms.

You’ve seen the videos and heard the recordings of alleged possession and exorcisms. Did you ever see or hear anything that could be regarded as truly supernatural? These recordings can be eerie and even disturbing, to be sure, but that’s the extent of it. Howling, growling, yelps, cursing and screams. Crazy, even frightening, but nothing a mentally disturbed or hysterical person cannot manufacture. “Extraordinary strength” is one of the most common attributes that exorcists describe for the possessed. It has long been known that the mentally ill and even persons under great stress can muster such strength.

The Case of “Emily Rose”

The Exorcism of Emily Rose is based on the tragic case of a young German woman named Anneliese Michel, who in the early 1970s underwent an ordeal that eventually led to her death. The details of her case can be found in such Web article as “The Real Emily Rose” and “What Really Happened to Emily Rose?”. The controversy surrounding her illness, exorcism and death resulted in a sensational trial, all of which are part of the Emily Rose film.

Anneliese was diagnosed by doctors as suffering from grand mal epilepsy, a condition of the brain that causes severe seizures. This, compounded by other possible mental and psychological disorders, resulted in hallucinations of demonic faces and voices. Her religious parents, apparently baffled and frustrated by their 16-year-old daughter’s increasingly psychotic and often violent behavior, chose to thwart the medical diagnosis and sought an exorcism.

For years, the Church refused to grant an exorcism. They accepted the medical diagnosis, finding no supernatural criteria to warrant an exorcism. There were certainly very serious and highly disturbing symptoms: Anneliese would mutilate herself, eat flies and coal, drink her own urine and physically lash out at her family. A profoundly disturbed girl. But there was no levitation, no documented telekinesis (heck, even poltergeist cases have some telekinesis) – nothing whatsoever that could be deemed supernatural.

Making Matters Worse

Despite this lack of evidence, however, in 1975 the Michels finally convinced priests to perform exorcisms – a whole series of them, in fact, sometimes two rites a week! Certainly, this only reinforced Anneliese’s delusion that demons were inside her. And not just any demons. She claimed to be possessed by the spirits of Cain, Judas Iscariot, Nero, even Adolf Hitler, among others.

Only for a short time did she seem to improve because of the exorcism rites. But soon the mental anguish returned with a vengeance. She stopped eating and her knees ruptured from the 600 genuflections she performed obsessively.

Ultimately, the exorcisms failed. On July 30, 1976, Anneliese died of starvation, and her parents and exorcising priests were charged with negligent homicide – and rightly convicted.

The exorcisms failed because there was nothing to exorcise. Anneliese Michel was not possessed; she required heavy duty medical attention. Had her parents sought proper medical care for their daughter instead of seeking refuge in superstition, Anneliese might be alive today. With the improved medications and treatments now available, she might even be living a normal life.

Source

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Radian

Sunny its not a matter of what I am willing to personally accept, I believe in God, angels, ghosts UFOs and all sorts of things others would consider stupid, I only disbelieve in this because its screaming bullsh1t, I even believe that demonic possession is possible (not by Satan or fallen angels, I believe in demons in a different way than the churches myths) but I have studied many cases of exorcisms, and seen the recent people training to be exorcists in Rome. Now the fact is Satan and Satanic possession is not real, its just the propaganda for the church, so they can be given a job. Think about it what if people realised the truth, and that Satan did not exist, and that its down to the individual personals responsibility for there wrong doings, or in this case mental illness, and that it was not Satan that made me do this or that, it is up to us as individual with free will to own up to our evil actions, the church would be out of a job. Not that Annaliese had a choice of free will, as she was mentally ill, but I am making a point that if Satan was real it would be an insult to our God given right of free will.

The church targets the mentally ill so they can induce more fear onto people, so they can stay in business, I don’t really understand why I have to be explaining this, its just obvious.

I remember reading about a case similar to this religious neglect of priests and parents, where a girl whose 2 sisters brought her into the emergency room. Reason, well because the girl confessed that she'd been having lustful thoughts, and these fundamentalists took the Bible literally and removed her eyeballs in an attempt to save her soul. And the girl sat rocking, wiping her blood-streaming eye-sockets, screaming "THANK YOU JESUS! THANK YOU JESUS!"

Then the fundamentalists become accused as being possessed when the story got out to the public, and the priests got some good work out of the mental illness caused by stupid superstition.

Here is something I found..............

Exorcisms are in vogue again. Evangelists like Bob Larson roam the country performing “deliverances” on (and profiting from) members of his audience that he convinces have demons in them. Similar deliverances are conducted in churches and by ministries around the world – including Russia, on which I reported in the article “Exorcism in Russia.”

Even the Catholic Church, which for decades kept exorcism in the closet, is once again bringing it out into the open. In early 2005, about 100 Catholic priests signed up for a Vatican-sanctioned course on exorcism, and today the Church’s ranks of official exorcists has swollen to more than 400.

No doubt about it. The interest in expelling demonic forces is high and growing. And when a film like The Exorcism of Emily Rose hits the theaters, fascination increases – especially when it is promoted as being based on a true story.

The same thing happened when The Exorcist shocked viewers back in 1973, a story also said to be inspired by true events.

What’s going on? Is there really an increase in demonic activity and possession of humans? Or are we becoming increasingly superstitious, blaming extraordinary psychiatric and physical ailments on the Devil, much as people did in the unenlightened Middle Ages?

No Evidence

The truth is, there is no evidence whatsoever for the idea of demonic possession.

I have been researching paranormal phenomena for many years, and have never come across or read about one plausible case of possession that could not be explained better as mental illness, physical ailments and hoaxes. (Psychic phenomena might be evident in some rare cases.) There is good evidence for ghost and haunting phenomena, Bigfoot, psychic phenomena and many other areas of the paranormal, but there is no good evidence for demonic possession. If there is, I'd like to see it.

As you can now tell, I am highly skeptical on this matter. And to be fair, I have never attended an exorcism or personally encountered a person thought to be possessed, but even those who have cannot seem to produce the slightest bit of evidence. No film, video or photos of levitation or other supernatural events – although they are often claimed to take place during exorcisms.

You’ve seen the videos and heard the recordings of alleged possession and exorcisms. Did you ever see or hear anything that could be regarded as truly supernatural? These recordings can be eerie and even disturbing, to be sure, but that’s the extent of it. Howling, growling, yelps, cursing and screams. Crazy, even frightening, but nothing a mentally disturbed or hysterical person cannot manufacture. “Extraordinary strength” is one of the most common attributes that exorcists describe for the possessed. It has long been known that the mentally ill and even persons under great stress can muster such strength.

:tu: appreciate your feedback {SpirnghealedJack}- :D I feel I need to clarify that I'm not here with the intentions on trying to persuay/convince anyone different from their own opinions, or belief, on this matter... Im not in any way a "religious" person, I'm not deeply interested in the paranormal, & I'm somewhat intuned with mental illnesses/disorders (masters) in the field of Abnormal Psychology/Criminology. Now, that being said.

I can certainly see where some would believe that exorcism could be used as a form of propaganda to scare folks, and out of this fear it moves them into the church. As a result it would keep the church in business.........- But, isn't that the same as the church being guilty of progaganda by convincing as many people as possible, that there is a God, so those same people would feel a conviction to go to church, be forgiven, to avoid hell? If church uses propaganda in such a way (ex..exorcism) then God doesn't exist, the underlying truth would be God is greed, or money-.... So, the purpose of the bible would be only to give power to the church out of fear of being a damned soul to hades... I don't think most people fear being possessed by evil as much as they fear dying and going to hell....But, I don't know the stats on that..:}

From what I understand, the Catholic church has/had attempted to cover their "embarracing" past regarding exorcism, until (it) bacame virtually non -existent/ or almost forgotten. I wouldn't say that a priest being designated to an exorcism ritual is advertisement, IOW. These movies enable mass hysteria, no doubt... similar to school shootings, one spots on the evening news, lo and behold, youll have a few more within the next couple weeks (copycats)........I think most of us are aware these movies do NOT convey truths or facts about the subject...even when the film states "based on a true story"...that's propaganda---Increase viewers, increase the dollar! In all honesty, one has to wonder if the Catholic church hasn't been a victim or scrutinized unnecessarily due to films such as "The Exorcist," or "The Exorcism of Emily Rose." Sort of like Linda Blair will always be that little girl in the bed with her head spinning..everytime I see her I think of that.. :hmm: Maybe we are a little too effecient in confusing hollywood drama with reality...dunno.

{IMHO} that Bob Larson is crock of crudmuck--- These drive thru exorcisms, to me, or completely ludicrous. Positive Psychological benefits for those who believe him, or those like him, maybe so.

I have a daughter with autism...... (I remember reading about a boy who was autistic and thought to be possessed. The "exorcism" killed him- by covering his mouth so he would not talk, he suffocated).....Yes, they (mentally challenged) are stronger than what most people realize. I understand this unusual strength she is mere 98 pounds but you wouldn't know it during a violent tantrum...I deal with that on a daily...!

You said " if we realized the truth, and if satan did not exist" which was a good question, I thought.....and I ask you, what if you realized the truth, and learned that he did exist.....?

:devil::unsure2::innocent:

I have studied the transcripts of AM, witness accounts/testimonies, transcripts of priests, documentation of medicals..etc, and there is a large gaping hole in specific areas ( I found this mostly in the priests documentations), true. Certainly makes it more difficult to understand--but what (unnerves) me are not the "tape, or video." I wish it were that simple to rationalize my opinion- but, as I said in previous post, I am convinced through neurology/psy medicals, personal/non transcripts (& records of her behavior, psychological, other occurances) Even the Dsm of that era, could not have effeciently diagnosed her with any mental illness other than depression accurately (the onset of the depression 1970, & the onset of bizare symtoms began in 68). A (Dr. Luthy) who diagnosed epilepsy on an "assumed" accumilation, even after negative EEG(s)/ & neurological system exams ( was, in fact, inadequate)...I was amazed at the number of neurologicals, psychological, & internal medicine exams taken place on this girl b/t 69-76, and their results.

I do not believe every Tom, Dick or Harry, as it seems to be projecting in media, even on the net for example are genuinely "possessed." I sincerely think that there are far and few between who do meet the genuine standard. --

The bottom line is no one knows for an absolute fact. All we have is what we have absorbed through our lifespan...our conclusions always reflect that.

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SpringhealedJack
If church uses propaganda in such a way (ex..exorcism) then God doesn't exist, the underlying truth would be God is greed, or money-....

Just because the church uses propaganda through fear to get more members, doesn’t mean God is not true. I believe in God, but believe the bible and any other "Holy Book" has little or nothing to do with God.

Just because the bible is a tool of control, doesn’t mean God doesn’t exist. People believed in God long before the church and the bible were invented.

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Radian

Just because the church uses propaganda through fear to get more members, doesn’t mean God is not true. I believe in God, but believe the bible and any other "Holy Book" has little or nothing to do with God.

Just because the bible is a tool of control, doesn’t mean God doesn’t exist. People believed in God long before the church and the bible were invented.

I was hoping youd see my point- If the church uses exorcism as a form of propaganda then wouldn't it seem to be more productive to use the bible, scriptures, laws, and the idea of a hell to bring in more members, thereby increasing more jobs for church?

& I agree with you absolutely- God existed before any bible. Before any man. I personally don't feel there aren't any "correct" religions/bibles. All we have are handed down opinions or translations of someone else. I treasure my bible, don't get me wrong. I take it for what it is. That's all I have..... I read my scriptures, I study/ research what I dont understand. But I dont necessarily take a scripture for what someone tells me it means, I study it my self first...usually the answer is right in front of me....

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Empyrean

Well I dont really know to much on schizophrenia other then the the few people that walk around town yelling at some invisible person. But I do know quite alot about depression since I do suffer from it. I have taken medication for it and that was a complete failure. I have been off thoes medications for over a year now, I am still depressesd but can cope with it nicely since it is one of my highest proirities. Now I have never ever heard of any one ever that had their depression turn into some thing like that. most likely if she had schizophrenia and epilepse she would have become depressesed because of it and then the depression would be a side note to the real problems. the medications could also cause even more severe problems then what would normaly be as in my case where the drugs caused me to almost premeditatively kill some one. once that happened I dropped the pills and never had a nother feeling liek that since. now that is what doctors gave me today so what would you think the mental medications the doctors back then would have done. So with that note I cant really find that the doctors back then would have really been able to do something avout the situation if it reallye was a severe mental dissorder. That brings me to my other point, the severity of her case aside from the EEG's not showing anything and such Anneliese was a very very...........very extreme case. not only in the medical realm but also the spiritual. All the other presumed real exorcisms I have heard about, none of them touch the severity of this case. So I personaly can not come to any real conclusions on this case. Was she possesses or was she not??? I dont know. the only thing that I can try to say that would support the Schizophrenia idea is that the name that she mentioned, Judas, Lucifer and Hitler. The other names I do not know much about but these three I deem them as very cultural. Hilter...... well Hitler was the leader of germany she was german. Judas would have benn demonized by the religous people and she was religous and the devil would never mention himself as Lucifer seeing that Lucifer was never the name of the devil it was just a miss translation in the bible. Basicaly she never really mentioned name that were not known to her, they were all cultually driven names that she would have well known to be bad people. Either way I can not say if she was or was not possessed.

I am really seepy and have been drinking beer while typing this so if it does not make any sense or you are unsure what I mean please let me konw and I will try to explain a little better when I am not drinking and really sleepy.

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h4ck3r4chr1s7

I am not certain that anyone knows of this incident of San Damiano, located in Northern Italy. Almost before the priest had gotten involved, Anneliese's father offered to take her up to San Damiano. She was quite depressed at the time and going through harsh time due to school, her visits to her phyician, occassional visions of the world ending in flames, grimace faces, etc.

The offer did cheer her up, for she had always dreamed of praying the rosary there. The rosary became a daily prayer performed often almost ever night in the Miche house. Frau Hein, the woman who organized the trip and Anneliese's father(Josef), reported what near-incident she had left there.

She was unable to enter the shrine. She approached it with greatest hesitation, then said that the soil burned like fire and simply coulb not stand it. She walked around the shrine and approached it from the back. She got as far as the edge of the little garden, then she had to turn back. Coming from the front again, she had to avert her glance from the picture of Christ. She also noted that she could no longer look at medals or pictures of saints; they sparkled so intensely that she no stand it.

The pilgrims were usually a mixed crowd: a few members of a prayer group from Miltenburg perhaps; a piched-faced housewife wearing a hat, a postal official from Ebersbach with his wife; a retired schoolteacher with binoculars and a camera around his neck. They were strangers to each other, but still everyone watched to see if they behaved properly. "Crazy, did you see that she refused to drink of the miraculous well water?As if it were bad or something." the postal stated. A girl form the prayer group walking beside them shook her head." She sure acts strange. Her father bought her a medal but she wouldn't wear it. He kept coaxing, but she said it pressed on her chest so she couldn't breathe. I heard her say that."

Anneliese could not, of course, help noticing that the people spoke of her. But neither she was able to change the way she was behaving. " My will is not my own." she said later."Something else is manipulating me."

On the way home, Anneliese behaved in a most uncertain way toward Frau Hein. She spoke with a voice like a man's, made fun of, so to speak, of Frau Hein, was uncertain of herself; she simply was not Anneliese anymore. She tore off the medal that Frau was wearing and exuded a stench that smelled like no other, like fecal matter or something burning. Everyone on the bus could smell it.

" We will torment that snotnose, we will torment her," they would shriek from her mouth.

Referring from a Most Reverend Bishop:

Two days later, a fellow priest( Father Herrmann) who was going to take charge of the case visited me. He handed me two letters, one written by mother Michel , the other by Anneliese. I was unable to read them because, all of a sudden, I became so nauseated that I thought I was going to faint.I experienced a strange excitation such as I had never been subject to before, considerably frightening and startled my fellow priest, who was witness of all this. Naturally, even this experience, of course, did not in any way prove that we were dealing with a case of possession.

That eveing, I celebrated the mass. I was mentally preparing for the transubstantiation and also included that as yet unknown girl in thesacrifice. All of a sudden something hit me in the back, the air turned cold and, at the same time, there was an intense stench as though something were burning. I had to lean against the altar. With great effort and only by dint of considerable concentration was I able to speakl the rest of the text. I felt deeply distresse, as if a negative force were surrounding me.

The subsequent night was the most restless I have ever spent. I had taken a very effective sleeping pill, one that previously had always helped, but I could find no rest. My apartment was filled with a variety of stenches, as though something were burning. It didn't matter whether I reached out for the rosary or whether I spoke some other prayer, the stench continued. It was literally infernal. In addition, there was occational loud thumping in my wardrobe. I lay in bed , feeling sorely pressed. I tried to pray. In my own words I spoke an exorcism. For a few minutes I felt easier, but I was simotaneously ice-cold and and yet bathed in perspiration. In my extremity I called to Father Pio for help, since I knew that he had experienced similiar tribulations. Nothing happened. I repeated my prayer to him and suddenly my room was filled with such an intense fragrance of violets that I thought I had dumped after-shaved lotion on my pajamas, but only of my own sweat. Strangely, at the same time I stopped perspiring and my body felt warm. I breathed with relief and only then did I discover, to my amazement, that my field of vision had been very much narrowed, and that my color perception was reduced. Now I was able to see colors once more in their normal intensity. The pressure on my head had disappeared.

When the following evening, I told my fellow priest about all of this, they were suddenly able to smell the same strange stench. Their entire parish house smelled as though of burning, although the windows were open.

Father Alt. tells the Bishop in the same letter:

In the evening I took a walk with my friend, Father Roth, and once more, as we talked about Anneliese Michel, we smelled the same series of stenches.

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Radian

Maybe the names are not to be taken literal, or in the literal sense- I'm just guessing, but the names could represent a character of the (evil) spirit. And,accordingly,named itself after someone well known for that particular character/evil. Hitler, for example, (we know) him as a mass murderer, without mercy/ empathy, all the name of power & greed. Judas, *we know* betrayer (of the heavenly father), destruction of oneself->suicide, trader. Nero, self -rightous, power, insanity, narcissicism, vile/ ruthless, lack of empathy, sadist, murderer of possible thousands. Cain, drew first blood, jeolousy, murderer of his own blood-brother. Lucifer, is mentioned first in the book of Isaiah as a "fallen angel" but in the *original hebrew text of Isaiah "lucifer" refers to a babylonian king known for the persecution of the children of Isreal.

Another spirit anneliese mentioned she called "meat man," a 14th century priest who was a serial sadistic rapist/murderer that went unknown...secret.

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h4ck3r4chr1s7

Another spirit anneliese mentioned she called "meat man," a 14th century priest who was a serial sadistic rapist/murderer that went unknown...secret.

I have never heard of that particular spirit mentioned.

Do you happen to have a valid source to confirm that?

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Radian

I have never heard of that particular spirit mentioned.

Do you happen to have a valid source to confirm that?

*It's not CNN*..... but it's all I got at the moment--

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anneliese_Michel

-to get to "meat man" (fleischmann) find & click "statements of the devil...."

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=ht...Flanguage_tools

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=e...DUTF-8%26sa%3DG

http://enciclopedia.tiosam.com/enciclopedi...nneliese_Michel

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Envase

Okay. I'm not sure if anyone has made this point yet but...

The Exorcist was release in germany a few years before Anneliese Michel went under possession. I've found, and so has other sites, that the two cases of possession seem a great deal similar. Is it possible that Michel saw The Exorcist and mimiced what she saw to a point where it became phychotic? I'm not sure if theres any type of metal disuse that is like that but it seems plausible to me.

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Radian

Okay. I'm not sure if anyone has made this point yet but...

The Exorcist was release in germany a few years before Anneliese Michel went under possession. I've found, and so has other sites, that the two cases of possession seem a great deal similar. Is it possible that Michel saw The Exorcist and mimiced what she saw to a point where it became phychotic? I'm not sure if theres any type of metal disuse that is like that but it seems plausible to me.

The "Exorcist" was released in Germany in 1974, Anneliese started her ("demonic") sympoms in 1969--

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anneliese_Michel

http://www.chasingthefrog.com/reelfaces/emilyrose.php

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0070047/releaseinfo

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Imaginary Friend

Forgive me if I misunderstand your post, however if the "Exorcist" was released in 1974, how would it to influence AM who's symptomatology began to appear in 1969, relate to one another, if she began to experience her symptoms 5 years before the German theatrical debut of 1974? :blink:

Edited by Imaginary Friend

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Envase

Sorry if this is a repost...

Oops I must have had so bad resourses.

But still wasn't there a book...?

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seanph

AM was not possessed. Sadly she was diagnosed, and suffered terribly from, Temporal Lobe Epilepsy.

... The psychiatrists, who had been ordered by the court, talked about "Doctrinaire Induction." Saying the Priests offered Anneliese the contents of her psychotic behavior, consequentially she later assumed the behavior of a demonically possessed person. Also an unsettled sexual development, along with the diagnosed Temporal Lobe Epilepsy influenced Anneliese's psychosis...

Even a commission of the German Bishop-Conference later declared that Anneliese was not possessed. In fact, it was her case that spurred the Vatican to edit its Exorcism Rite for the first time since 1614!

The "Exorcist" was released in Germany in 1974, Anneliese started her ("demonic") sympoms in 1969--

True. But that doesn't mean that it didn't influence her later on as it did others.

... Short time before these events, William Friedkin's The Exorcist came to the cinemas in Germany (1974), and started a paranormal hysteria all over the land. Psychiatrists all over Europe, reported an increase of obsessive ideas in their patients. For the prosecutors, the factual situation is more than bizarre, and it took almost two years, until the "Klingenberg Case" was brought to court...

http://www.ropeofsilicon.com/news.php?id=2507

AM was a very sick, religiously hypersensitive, young lady. She was mentally ill--a fact attested to even by the Church. So I'm not sure why some still argue that this poor girl was possessed.

True story of AM

http://www.chasingthefrog.com/reelfaces/emilyrose.php

Kindly,

Sean

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