Iran defies nuclear referral risk

[Dan'O]

Flag burnings and such that your evening news loves to show you so much are exactly shows made by a few actors for your evening news

I think they need a new stunt director because I have seen a few of them actors get badly burned while doing it. But, it does make me laugh when that happens.

Perhaps they are doing comedies?

[Super Pancake]

The governments of both sides vomit hate propaganda, and the public on both side eat it up.

Americans are evil

Iran is part of the axis of evil

Allah will kill the Americans

Iran is helping Al Queda

Death to president bush

and it goes on and on and on, ****

Edited September 15, 2005 by Super Pancake

[zephyr]

What kind of fantasy world do you live in Zeph, the flag burnings are fake?  are you nuts?  How far is the wool pulled over your eyes to be this ignorant of the truth.  The only propoganda is whats coming out of your mouth.

845169[/snapback]

What kind of fantasy world do you live in Stixxman, the flag burnings are not fake, they are real movies and as Dan said, with not such good actors sometimes, designed to manipulate simple minds! Are you nuts? How far is the wool pulled over your eyes to be this ignorant of the truth, you've been watching too much of that nonsense they show you on your evening news. The only propaganda is what's coming out of your tv and back out of your mouth; you sound like a recording of the evening news And here's a friendly suggestion; if you like to talk about issues concerning other countries, do a more detailed research than the usual propaganda you receive from your tv on those issues before throwing nonsense out about subjects you don't properly comprehend.

Perhaps they are doing comedies?

They make me laugh in any case!

The governments of both sides vomit hate propaganda, and the public on both side eat it up.

The naive members of the public eat it up, and fortunately not everyone.

[zephyr]

Hey Stixxman; Since you obviously lack the ability to hold an adult-like conversation and run short on valid arguments relatively fast, you're getting too personal and especially too impolite for me. So maybe you should look for someone your age if you like blabbing nonsense based on ignorance provided by the propaganda on your tv all day; you got the wrong MAN here and I'm going to let you go on believing in whatever it is that you consider as the absolute truth!

And FYI stupe I used to live in Montreal, I spoke mainly english most of if not all of my friends are Iranian, Lebonese, Syrian, and even some eccentric Italians. Why don't you PM me and display how much of my culture you know.

Montreal? that's a nice place, I have been lucky enough to have the occasion to visit it, especially that I used to have a girl-friend from Quebec and I owe my French to her, eventhough I built on that during my stays in France and Switzerland. Where are you Manon? I miss you! I've learned my bad English during my studies in England (Surrey) and in the US (Iowa); mind you that I only blame myself for not learning it properly, I had fantastic teachers and professors in both of those countries to whom I owe a great deal. Besides your good English, How many other languages do you speak? Have you been lucky enough to have the opportunity to visit Iran? Italy is a nice place as well, I don't miss any occasion to go to my friend's villa by the sea near the port of Genova, just a pity I don't speak Italian, but he speaks very good English and French. Boy those Italians are fun to be with, especially when they are the eccentric type. I would need to occupy many pages of this generous site in order to show-off(as if I haven't done enough already ), about my international friends and where they all come from and the countries we have visited together, but I can tell you that it is absolutely no problem for me to match your Lebanese, Syrian and Iranian friends.

I know more about your culture than you know about mine (judging by your posts that is), but then contrary to you, I don't have a habit of making far-fetched assumptions about other cultures and post them in forums and pretend I know better than the people who are actually from those cultures and even get as rediculous as asking them to go away when their arguments don't quite match my stereotypes about them. Believe me having a conversation with you through PMs is the last thing I want to do in a nice, end of summer evening; I've already learned enough as it is!

[Celumnaz]

This was a movie?

http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/meast/9902/11/iran.anniversary.01/

In the capital Tehran, Iranians carrying banners and balloons burned American flags and chanted "God is great" and "Death to America".

[Stixxman]

Once again you fail to grasp the obvious here, I practically lived with my friends in Montreal, I was part of the family. I was included in many celebrations that were culturally different to me. I LEARNED from them, the only thing you have learned from your broad experience with the west is hatred for it. Or is it jealousy of how good our situation works? Don't you just WISH you could say the same? I've walked the Champs de lyse, I've stood on Vhimy ridge, I've flown down the grand canyon, I've stood in front of big ben, and I've been to the north pole. I speak english, french, dogrib, and some inuktitut(just enough to get lucky in a bar), I used to speak german because of my dads mom too. You have not displayed any understanding of my culture just a simple form of bigotry. Thats why the situation is so screwed up, because there are people like you out there bereft of common sense. Keep the blinders on buddy.

[Baku]

Once again you fail to grasp the obvious here, I practically lived with my friends in Montreal, I was part of the family.  I was included in many celebrations that were culturally different to me.  I LEARNED from them, the only thing you have learned from your broad experience with the west is hatred for it.  Or is it jealousy of how good our situation works?  Don't you just WISH you could say the same?  I've walked the Champs de lyse, I've stood on Vhimy ridge, I've flown down the grand canyon, I've stood in front of big ben, and I've been to the north pole.  I speak english, french, dogrib, and some inuktitut(just enough to get lucky in a bar), I used to speak german because of my dads mom too.  You have not displayed any understanding of my culture just a simple form of bigotry.  Thats why the situation is so screwed up, because there are people like you out there bereft of common sense.  Keep the blinders on buddy.

847080[/snapback]

Um Persians are pretty much very open, friendly and generous people, so they would even invite you to their wedding without actually knowing you. If you think you know so much about Persians, try asking them about this topic and ask them what they think about it, you'll be surprised. And since your trying to show off, I lived in Sovjet Union (and it was great), Persia, White-Russia, Azerbaycan and now I live in The Netherlands, been to moscow, leningrad, stalingrad, siberia, kiev, Ukraine (very, very nice people), east and west Germany, pretty much all over EU. I speak Dutch, German, English, Azeri, Russian, Turkish and Persian. But that not the point now is it, you actually think Persians hate US (thats how I understand it)? If so then you really need to check yourself cuz back 2 pages ago you were saying that our goverment hates you guys, not the people. Now your saying the people hate the US cuz they are bruning flags?

Let me just show how much you guys hate the middle east, take a look at the pics below, I found them on different site's when I was surfing. And this is just of the internet, just try imagine what the people on the streets are thinking about the middle east and islam (people like yourself). Now try to compare this hatred against ours, you'll see the difference of the mouse and elephant. And I can tell you the elephant is not on our side.

But I dont blame you, you guys got to much propagenda going on, no wonder most of you are brainwashed. Hell you guys dont even know that palistinians are christians and that the Sovjet Union was socialism not communism so you really dont have any idea about what your saying here

[Stixxman]

I was not showing off, I was giving examples of the different middle eastern cultures I've come in contact with and enjoyed meeting. The two of you are misinterpreting a lot of what I say on purpose cause you are not very good at reading and interpreting english. Not to mention the obvious feelings of inferiority you have. Baku I never once said anything you have accused me of, you may wish it but it just isn't true. Qoute me the portions of text that "I" wrote if you can please. So far the only thing you guys have done is be insulted without reason.

Here is my quote from two pages back that you found so insulting

"What makes me nervous zeph is a country that is lead by a man who professes hatred for the way me and many westerners live our lives. I'm nervous about a country with such a bad track record for human rights, an indication of what passes for fair in that country. Face facts zeph there are many decent persian people, but they are not in charge are they, the not so decent fanatical ones are."

now what in gods name are you talking about you semi literate dingbat its not even insulting. At no time during your incoherent rambling did you make anything resembling sense Baku. If there is any brainwshing to witness its from the both of you, but then again it looks as if the both of you is the one of you anyway.

[Dan'O]

Dan was being sarcastic

846809[/snapback]

Aye, I was. Sorry Zeph. But I would not doubt that "staged" flag burnings have occured. I think most are genuine acts of hatred. You can kinda see it in their dim witted and brain washed eyes. But anyhoo... I would like to go to Iran sometime. I just hope the weather is nice and not raining nukes. I really wanted to go see the giant Budda in Afganistan before it was blown up by the Taliban. That made me sad.

[zephyr]

Dan was being sarcastic

846809[/snapback]

Aye, I was. Sorry Zeph. But I would not doubt that "staged" flag burnings have occured. I think most are genuine acts of hatred. You can kinda see it in their dim witted and brain washed eyes. But anyhoo... I would like to go to Iran sometime. I just hope the weather is nice and not raining nukes. I really wanted to go see the giant Budda in Afganistan before it was blown up by the Taliban. That made me sad.

847584[/snapback]

I knew you were, Dan! I just tried to use your sarcasm and show how close to reality it really was, but obviously I failed. All flag burnings are staged, it is used mainly as a means to creat hatred and exploit it to score short-term political points. Of course those who take part as actors in those movies are brainwashed lunatics, otherwise they wouldn't be burning flags to begin with. But it's falling straight into the trap of hatemongers if one believes that there is a genuine, grass-root hatred of the west amongst Iranians in general. The military threats that persist against Iran are also part of that same movie, those are the guys who show-off nukes in order to encourage the flag burners to burn flags. When I talk about a movie, I mean a well directed movie played with real people and flags and nukes and tvs and....

Please do come to Iran sometime, you know I'm only a PM away. The weather is really what keeps me here, it's nice all the time, and it's not the old, mediatic bluffs about nukes that are going to make me leave!

The Taliban and their foreign buddies terrorized all of Afghanistan, including the dead(they used to punish certain bodies by lashes ), and the giant Buddas. God knows what Afghanistan would have looked like today had there not have been 9/11.

[Dan'O]

Ah, the sarcasm was in the other post. I was referring to visiting some place and referencing any potential dismay at bad weather AND OR any military strike on a place I would like to go to. Since I would genuinely like to go there and not want anything to hamper that activity I thought it was a simple, easily understood metaphoric comparison. (Thanks for the offer Zeph I may take you up on that at some point)

Anyway, what I posted is called a metaphor. I am not really sure what you read into it. But, it seems that your blindness to my lighthearted post is not new nor, again, does it surprise me. I am not going to go into the whole intelligence factor here but you may want to think about something before you post insults or start flaming someone.

[edit] look it up for your self...

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=defin...G=Google+Search

Edited September 19, 2005 by Dan'O

[Mekorig]

whatever you say Dan´o . Call it a metaphor or a banana plant. Since you are in this forum i have read your posts, and usually you make "intelligent" remarks like the oone of the rain of nukes. Soo please, dont try to make yourself look better truying the metaphor card.

[Baku]

whatever you say Dan´o . Call it a metaphor or a banana plant. Since you are in this forum i have read your posts, and usually you make "intelligent" remarks like the oone of the rain of nukes. Soo please, dont try to make yourself look better truying the metaphor card.

851033[/snapback]

Are you kidding me or something like that? He only meant it figurative not literally like you understand it

[Babs]

I hope other countries can and will deal with Iran; the U.S. has too much on it's plate these days with natural disasters and such. I am hoping the UN or anyone else will take up the mission.

zep, talks on here like everything is okay: biding time, I imagine: Iran is just 6 months away from a nuclear bomb. I guess it will be world-war time then.

Edited September 21, 2005 by Babs

[Fluffybunny]

After deleting umpteen posts that were little more than a flame filled bickering match I am going to remind everyone here that this forum has rules against personal attacks towards each other. If someone is being out of line please us the report button to let a mod know.

Responding and getting into a flaming post match will land you in as much trouble as the instigator.

Please express yourselves in a civil matter, this is an important discussion that deserves attention and discussion; not fighting.

There are governments that are busy doing that.

[Celumnaz]

Flag burnings and such that your evening news loves to show you so much are exactly shows made by a few actors for your evening news

That really struck me and I'm going to start looking for more of this. So far, all I've found is this:

http://seconddraft.org/rushes.php

http://seconddraft.org/streaming/pallywood.wmv

Which is Very compelling to me as it rings true to my initial impressions that are shot down for being inhumane, racist, bigoted, etc, etc, etc...

[zephyr]

celumnaz; I made that statement ONLY in connection with Iran, the subject of this thread; I wasn't talking about all flag burnings all over the world. I also made more comments about that in a later post than the one quoted. I think it should be clear by now that I'm not questioning whether they really exist or not especially since they have been on tv, but rather, the goals persued by the actors and the directors; and obviously, drawing media attention is high on that list. An easy way to manipulate the public opinion by burning flags with evening news tv cameras crawling all over the place; hey? I think when we start seeing through this propaganda shows and stop stereotyping about whole countries based on them, then they might stop, but as long as people go for this sort of thing there isn't really much hope, is there?

I don't know if the end part of your post was intended for me, but I for one never used any of those words that you mention!

[Celumnaz]

No Zep, I wasn't refering to you. You may or may not have expressed that about me in the past, it's irrelivant, others have and I'm not limiting that to only my UM experience.

Just pointing out that you might just be right on this. This is a prime example of exactly what you're talking about, the only difference is it's Palestinian manipulation of our media and not Iranian in this specific example.

I think when we start seeing through this propaganda shows and stop stereotyping about whole countries based on them, then they might stop, but as long as people go for this sort of thing there isn't really much hope, is there?

My links are in support of this statement of yours. The whole world falls for this propaganda of supposed agressors/victims.

Just like I've been Very leery of poll interpretations, I want to start seeing the raw unedited footage of these "demonstrations" and "conflicts" and such. Not real time, after the fact is fine so as not to compromise any legit actions, but it's going to be necessary to start seeing unedited footage to know if what we're being told is true. Cause obviously, the "pictures" are used for lies.

[Mr Slayer]

Flag burnings and such that your evening news loves to show you so much are exactly shows made by a few actors for your evening news

So true. FOX and similar media channels are actually feeding the main stereotype about...well, for example, arabs. Yes, they're always running on the streets, screaming, behaving like primitives, burning flags...

And Americans are inbred rednecks shooting at each other...? No?

But to respond to the main post;

yes, why shouldn't Iran have their own nuclear program? Are they really that "unstable" a nation?

I mean, just because America is considered "sane" and not being on the "Rogue Nation"-list haven't stopped it from using nuclear weapons in the Gulf war, Yugoslavia and Afghanistan. Am I right?

Hypocrisy is such a sweet thing.

[Mekorig]

I mean, just because America is considered "sane" and not being on the "Rogue Nation"-list haven't stopped it from using nuclear weapons in the Gulf war, Yugoslavia and Afghanistan. Am I right?

Hypocrisy is such a sweet thing.

Well, your last statement can give place to controversy. Some people dont consider Poor Uraniun ammo has "nuclear weapons".

PD: Its poor uranium, empodership uraniun?, i dont know how to translate "empobrecido".

[Dr_Strangelove]

Well, your last statement can give place to controversy. Some people dont consider Poor Uraniun ammo has "nuclear weapons".

PD: Its poor uranium, empodership uraniun?, i dont know how to translate "empobrecido".

I think you are talking about DU; Depleted Uranium. The United States uses it as the punching core on a variety of different munitions. I don't know that I would class it in the same terms as tactical nuclear weapons but some people have definite issues with it.

[Mr Slayer]

I think you are talking about DU; Depleted Uranium. The United States uses it as the punching core on a variety of different munitions. I don't know that I would class it in the same terms as tactical nuclear weapons but some people have definite issues with it.

Yes, I also think he's talking about DU.

And yes, personally, I do have "issues" about DU;

First of all, it contaminates soil, water, contributes to pollutant concentration in plant uptake and animals (which eventually leads to human ingestion).

Second, those effects are being extremely disregarded by media. For most people, it's only a "cool" weapon, which literally makes toast of people, machines and buildings it hits.

Third....er, I mean.... it's completely bizarre speaking about morality regarding weapons, but still I'd put DU in the same immoral weapon-group as cluster grenades, for example.

Edited September 24, 2005 by AshKatNah

[Erikl]

Zephyr, what about the continous talks about the total destruction of Israel by the Iranian governments since 1979? Isn't it just pure racism and anti-Semitism?

When did Israel ever harm Iran? We helped you against Saddam during the Iran-Iraq war (although covertly), we managed to destroy his nuclear reactor after your faild attempt. Yet Iranian officials keep calling for the total destruction of Israel.

I know it's the government, and not the majority of Iranian population who seeks this, but still - Iran isn't a democracy so the people don't really have a say in the foreign relations of that country.

So I repeat my question - Isn't calling for the total destruction of Israel just pure racism and anti-Semitism?

[zephyr]

Cause obviously, the "pictures" are used for lies.

I agree with you on that; celumnaz. In fact I agree with your entire post.

yes, why shouldn't Iran have their own nuclear program? Are they really that "unstable" a nation?

IMO, it's a mistake for Iran to go after nuclear weapons (no problems with the civilian use of it though). Since the stability of nations is not a sufficient enough guarantee that such weapons would not be used as you've clearly stated, the only logical way out of this danger is for everyone to dump their nukes. It's playing with fire to be armed to the teeth with such weapons and even threaten entire nations that don't have nukes with them, and then propagate laughable excuses such as "we're a democracy therefore it's okay for us to have them".

Hypocrisy is such a sweet thing.

That wouldn't be an old Swedish saying, would it Ash?

Some people dont consider Poor Uraniun ammo has "nuclear weapons".

I sure as hell do!

I think you are talking about DU; Depleted Uranium. The United States uses it as the punching core on a variety of different munitions. I don't know that I would class it in the same terms as tactical nuclear weapons but some people have definite issues with it

My knowledge of nukes has tremendously increased since I met you Doc, and I thank you for it; you seem to be a good engineer; and I'm serious! This way I would know more details about what hit me! What I would like to know is if you have, somewhere lost in those files in your office, a plan, or a computer game for the safe and total destruction of that arsenal?

those effects are being extremely disregarded by media

That's one way the media manipulates public opinion, by focusing on certain issues while disregarding others completely.

Isn't calling for the total destruction of Israel just pure racism and anti-Semitism?

You didn't need to ask twice; I heard you the first time! It might be racism and anti-semetism, especially that you regard much simpler things as 'anti-semetism', but that's not very important. You should looked at it as propaganda, in the same light as the flags, different name callings and threats by different parties(including Israel), etc. I don't think it has much to do with who's whose friend and who hates whom in reality, it's just made to look that way.

[Erikl]

It might be racism and anti-semetism, especially that you regard much simpler things as 'anti-semetism'

Well calling for the total destruction of 5.5 million Jews is pretty much ranking in the same level of what the Nazis thought, so yeah, it's pretty easy to consider less harsh actions and desires as anti-Semitic as well.

but that's not very important. You should looked at it as propaganda, in the same light as the flags, different name callings and threats by different parties(including Israel), etc. I don't think it has much to do with who's whose friend and who hates whom in reality, it's just made to look that way.

Zephyr, do you even know what's the point of propaganda?

You seem to use that word as an excuse to your government's actions, yet one has to ask why is it that your country puts so much into that kind of propaganda.

Why is it that Israel is found in official Iranian propaganda as one of the main targets? Israel has never attacked Iran - on the other hand, Israel, in my book, has been far too patient in it's response to the mass campaign played against it by the Iranian governments for the last 26 years.

Edited September 24, 2005 by Erikl