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Talon

Iran defies nuclear referral risk

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zephyr
What makes me nervous zeph is a country that is lead by a man who professes hatred for the way me and many westerners live our lives.  I'm nervous about a country with such a bad track record for human rights, an indication of what passes for fair in that country.  Face facts zeph there are many decent persian people, but they are not in charge are they, the not so decent fanatical ones are.

842276[/snapback]

Although I don't agree with many of the Iranian government's policies, but your statement about a man professing hatred toward Westerners and their way of life is simply not true. They criticize the Western governments' agressive policies towards Iran and one has to distinguish between political rhetoric and a genuine hatred for cultures. I must add that any attempt to profess hatred towards western cultures has definately failed to persuade the people since such a genuine hatred simply does not exist here in the grass-roots level.

As for human rights record, I'm nervous about it as well and we are concerned about that much more than anybody in the West might be. The battle for freedom and equality is an ongoing and a constant one in this country which is often hampered by daily military threats against Iran. How do you expect a people to fight for their rights at home when their country is being threatened from abroad? The West is not doing the Iranian people and their quest for democracy a favour by threatening Iran with missiles and bombs. That's why I sometimes wonder if the west is not actually cooperating with the anti-democratic forces in Iran.

Of course the Iranian people are in charge eventhough there are those both within Iran and outside that would like to resist the will of the people and make it look like they are in full control. Look at the changes that have taken place in the past couple of decades. Who do you think has brought about all those changes? Certainly not the government by itself and not because of our good looks, and certainly not the West with its short-sighted policies. The government has had to bow to the desire of people little by little and painfully, but it has had to do it. There is still a lot to be done and it's going to take time and the more military threats there are against Iran, the longer that time is going to be. It is impossible to run a country like Iran today without taking into account the public opinion. It has to be understood in the West that we have had a major social, political and cultural revolution, it's naive to expect to have everything nice and cozy and according to the taste of the whole world within a relatively short period of time. People are going to have to learn to be patient and especially understand the dynamics of the Iranian society.

Just for the sake of comparison, fanatics are in charge of a lot of countries including superpowers armed to their teeth with nukes, and neither the decent people of those countries, nor the decent people of other countries are in charge of those fanatics, so it's a total illusion and extremely naive not to worry about all the fanatics in charge around the world and single out just one country. yes.gif

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zephyr
Actually I would be willing to bet that right now the only nukes we have targetted on Iran are a few tactical yield weapons. It really wouldn't be logical for us to aim the high yield weapons at them.
It's not logical for you to talk about aiming nukes(tactical or otherwise) at people all the time eventhough this might be the case. Everyone has their own hypothetical war plans and so does Iran, but if you go around talking about it in the form of threats all the time it will lose its effectiveness. It will make people hostile to you and will make them look for weapons to match those pointed at them which is of course contrary to everyone's supposed policy of arms control and reduction.

We would want to impress them with the idea that if they use a nuke against us we would just slaughter several million of them in about a half hour.

Who has said anything about using nukes against you? You are the one who doesn't mind slaughtering millions in half an hour and fortunately for everyone living on this planet, not everybody thinks that way, that's why those words don't impress me one bit. no.gif

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Dr_Strangelove
Actually I would be willing to bet that right now the only nukes we have targetted on Iran are a few tactical yield weapons. It really wouldn't be logical for us to aim the high yield weapons at them.
It's not logical for you to talk about aiming nukes(tactical or otherwise) at people all the time eventhough this might be the case. Everyone has their own hypothetical war plans and so does Iran, but if you go around talking about it in the form of threats all the time it will lose its effectiveness. It will make people hostile to you and will make them look for weapons to match those pointed at them which is of course contrary to everyone's supposed policy of arms control and reduction.

We would want to impress them with the idea that if they use a nuke against us we would just slaughter several million of them in about a half hour.

Who has said anything about using nukes against you? You are the one who doesn't mind slaughtering millions in half an hour and fortunately for everyone living on this planet, not everybody thinks that way, that's why those words don't impress me one bit. no.gif

843117[/snapback]

You still don't get it do you? Well, Iran can go ahead and get the weapons. Actually it is very logical that we have tactical nukes targetted! It just find it kind of funny that you think we wouldn't; tactical nuclear weapons are far more flexible in their usage. Just about any attack submarine of the Los Angeles class would carry a few SLCM for that.

Now the fun thing about having a nuke is that once you have them everybody starts to wonder who you might be thinking of using them on. There is even a term for it among planners, "atomic paranoia".

What if really comes down to is the simple fact that if Iran gets the bomb then she should be ready for annilation.

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zephyr
You still don't get it do you? Well, Iran can go ahead and get the weapons
You still don't get it do you? Iran has never said it wants to get nuclear weapons, nuke loving people like you are encouraging her to do so. yes.gif

Actually it is very logical that we have tactical nukes targetted!
that might be logical rolleyes.gif , but boasting about it isn't, but then I know all about your logic by now! rolleyes.gif

It just find it kind of funny that you think we wouldn't;
Knowing you, I never thought you wouldn't, I always thought you couldn't. rolleyes.gif

tactical nuclear weapons are far more flexible in their usage.
Good for you then! rolleyes.gif

Now the fun thing about having a nuke is that once you have them everybody starts to wonder who you might be thinking of using them on. There is even a term for it among planners, "atomic paranoia".

That's very much fun indeed, making people wonder if you're going to slaughter them in half an hour. rolleyes.gif

What if really comes down to is the simple fact that if Iran gets the bomb then she should be ready for annilation.

Take a look at the 3000 year old history of Iran and see for yourself where those who tried to annihilate her ended up but she's still here; thank god. I'm sure you'll even abandon the thought and the talk of annihilating Iran then. mad.gif

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Dr_Strangelove

Yeah Zeph, but they didn't have nukes! I have a feeling that a few large yield nukes would have a dramatic effect on Iran in terms of national viability.

Sure I love nukes! Its part of my living. Just trying to do you a favor by letting you know what it will be like if Iran decides to get some nukes of their own.

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zephyr
Yeah Zeph, but they didn't have nukes
Having them and not being able to use them is the same as not having them. grin2.gif We even have some old Persian saying to that effect... funny... I don't remember it, must be that new tea! blink.gif

I have a feeling that a few large yield nukes would have a dramatic effect on Iran in terms of national viability.

Sure they would, but then are you sure that the consequences of such a foolish act wouldn't have the same dramatic effect on other countries in terms of national viability, and are you sure that the lunatics who would have commited such an attrocity would be able to control the final outcome of it? unsure.gifno.gif

Sure I love nukes!
Do you have a t-shirt with that written on it? grin2.gif

Its part of my living
Never experienced living with nukes; must be something though if you're doing it. wacko.gif

Just trying to do you a favor by letting you know what it will be like if Iran decides to get some nukes of their own.
Thanks for the favor, and I'm returning it by letting you know that since the toothless camel was spotted around here today, there's no way any Eskimo is going to find him in his bed tonight; I better turn on the light before going to mine though! grin2.gif

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Stixxman

Zeph I'm going to have to disagree with you, the leader of Iran using anti western dogma to fire up his people, and it works witness the multiple flag burning ceremonies and celebratory parties at some misfortune for western culture. It is not even close to deniable, I've seen it on the evening news. I've seen video of your parliament?(I not sure if that is what it is called) where one Iranina politician was using hateful remarks about the west to make a point. You cannot deny that these things happen. How could any reasonable and intellegent person from my culture NOT be nervous about this. Niether of our cultures is making much of an effort to understand each other so the problem will be endless. What can you do?

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Baku
Zeph I'm going to have to disagree with you, the leader of Iran using anti western dogma to fire up his people, and it works witness the multiple flag burning ceremonies and celebratory parties at some misfortune for western culture.  It is not even close to deniable, I've seen it on the evening news.  I've seen video of your parliament?(I not sure if that is what it is called) where one Iranina politician was using hateful remarks about the west to make a point.  You cannot deny that these things happen.  How could any reasonable and intellegent person from my culture NOT be nervous about this.  Niether of our cultures is making much of an effort to understand each other so the problem will be endless.  What can you do?

843475[/snapback]

Dude think for a sec, you honestly think you westerlings dont do any hate against Persians? Your so naive, thinking you guys are the good and we are the bad. Sure there are some policitians and moron who are burning flag, but they dont represent Iran. It seems to me that whenever Persians do something negative it gets all over the US news. But when you guys do something like saying Iran is a evil country to the whole world, its not such a bad thing. Think from both sides next time.

What if really comes down to is the simple fact that if Iran gets the bomb then she should be ready for annilation.

843155[/snapback]

laugh.gif hehe thats a good one annihilating Iran, we been here since mankind started and we aint going nowere. Now go back to your room and play Risk with your imaginary friends thumbsup.gif

Sure I love nukes! Its part of my living. Just trying to do you a favor by letting you know what it will be like if Iran decides to get some nukes of their own.

843213[/snapback]

Maybe you should get a real hobby or something like that? Try sports, girls, cars, etc Hell almost everything beats nukes and standing in the shadow of your goverment.

Edited by Baku

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Stixxman

Listen if anyone is bigoted here its you, you seem to have a chip on your shoulder. Did I say all persians are bad, read my posts nunce. These are the LEADERS of the country, none of your pleasant friends are going to have their hands on the hot button, it'll be the aforementioned wingbats that will be. You need to grow up and find some logical reading and reasoning skill, you have very little idea hwta your saying. I know more about your people than you do. That must really burn.

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Baku
Listen if anyone is bigoted here its you, you seem to have a chip on your shoulder.  Did I say all persians are bad, read my posts nunce.  These are the LEADERS of the country, none of your pleasant friends are going to have their hands on the hot button, it'll be the aforementioned wingbats that will be.  You need to grow up and find some logical reading and reasoning skill, you have very little idea hwta your saying.  I know more about your people than you do.  That must really burn.

843634[/snapback]

Geez if you gonna reply, then the least you can do is reply on my point, not to my spellings. I know what you said, and you didnt say Persians are bad but that the goverment is, and I said your goverment sucks to. I dont know what you understood or what I wrote wrong but thats my point. And I dont even think you know your own people, so start there first, now you just got embarrassed.

Edited by Baku

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Stixxman

I know who my people are, I know who your people are, while my ancestors were mucking out mud huts yours were inventing math and science and chemistry. Look how far they have fallen from what they were, look at what historically their leadership has done to them. Your ancestors had the world at their feet and fu^&ed it all up. What do you know about my people?

And learn the nuances of the english language better, I wasn't commenting on your grammar, I could care less, what I was saying is your interpreting my words wrong when you read them and to read more closely.

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Baku
I know who my people are, I know who your people are, while my ancestors were mucking out mud huts yours were inventing math and science and chemistry.  Look how far they have fallen from what they were, look at what historically their leadership  has done to them.  Your ancestors had the world at their feet and fu^&ed it all up.  What do you know about my people?

And learn the nuances of the english language better, I wasn't commenting on your grammar, I could care less, what I was saying is your interpreting my words wrong when you read them and to read more closely.

843652[/snapback]

Actually we didnt **** up, the Mullahs did, there is a difference between that. They destroyed the Persian civilization but every nation in this world has fallen, this is how is goes arround.

And I hate the Mullahs, I hate there ugly faces, there beards, there stupid rules I hate about everything that has to do with them. But the US goverment is no different them they are, only it got some nice lies with them. And since the US is threathning Persia with nukes, which can kill alot of innocent people. People who are actually for freedom in Persia so I think its best to have nukes pointed back. In order to secure the situation of the civilians cuz it would be devastating to see innocent people taking up the fire. Maybe I didnt explain it right but try to imagine the US is at war with Iran, and wanna fire nukes, but they cant cuz else Iran would nuke back. And this will save millions of lifes! Maybe you will think its not the right way, but would it be right to fire nukes then? After all this is kinda the point of having nukes, to defend a country and to have the ability to threat back untill both sides drop the whole thing.

Anyways I readed your words very loud and cleary did you read mine? I doubt it, I told you what the point was yet you continue on discussing about reading words right.

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Stixxman

At least I don't take offense where none is given, thats why its important to understand the words your reading better. FYI the original response was for Zeph anyway, I don't know what you were doing in the conversation.

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indeed

user posted imageuser posted imageuser posted image

Situations like this can turn bad for both sides, each side has a valid point !!

Understanding and restraint would help both sides original.gif

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Stixxman

Who asked you? thumbdown.gif

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sanchera1978

Since when did someone have to ask permission to post?

No one likes seeing pointless arguments escalating on these threads.

Can't we all just get along laugh.gif

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Stixxman

I'm not arguing I'm debating here, the whole point of which is two people with different veiws. As always the right of it is somewhere in the middle. We both have to agree where that middle is before we can conclude the debate, that requires energetic discussion.

Edited by Stixxman

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Baku
I'm  not arguing I'm debating here, the whole point of which is two people with different veiws.  As always the right of it is somewhere in the middle.  We both have to agree where that middle is before we can conclude the debate, that requires energetic discussion.

843808[/snapback]

Thats something we can agree on tongue.gif

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Stixxman
grin2.giftongue.gif

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indeed

w00t.gif fine then, blow the northern hemisphere away, just ignore australia in your power trips thumbsup.gif

We don't want to know about it original.gif

(Edit)

Have fun ........ I wont bother the super powers again as I don't want a nuke aimed at me for no reason no.gif

Edited by indeed

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sanchera1978
thumbsup.gif see that wasnt so hard you both agreed on something. laugh.gif

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Dr_Strangelove

Wow! Just leave the terminal to go to work for a few hours and look at what happens!

Where is the love!

Don't worry! I have hobbies! Do you want to see my pictures from Aberdeen Proving Grounds or Ellsworth AFB?

Nope, don't have a T-shirt that says anything about loving the bomb. I do have a poster on the wall of my office showing the evolution of nuclear weapons and a Minuteman III letter opener.

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zephyr
Zeph I'm going to have to disagree with you, the leader of Iran using anti western dogma to fire up his people, and it works witness the multiple flag burning ceremonies and celebratory parties at some misfortune for western culture.  It is not even close to deniable, I've seen it on the evening news.  I've seen video of your parliament?(I not sure if that is what it is called) where one Iranina politician was using hateful remarks about the west to make a point.  You cannot deny that these things happen.  How could any reasonable and intellegent person from my culture NOT be nervous about this.  Niether of our cultures is making much of an effort to understand each other so the problem will be endless.  What can you do?

843475[/snapback]

The leaders of Iran might use anti-western dogma, the leaders of the west use anti-Iran dogma as well, especially those of the US. The difference between the two is that the Iranian people have not gone for their leaders' rhetoric(if you know the smallest thing about the Iranian society, you will know that the hatred of the west does not exist among the people here), but the western leaders and their mouthpieces the media have succeeded in brainwashing a lot of their people into far-fetched assumptions about Iran (obvious from some of the posts here). yes.gif Flag burnings and such that your evening news loves to show you so much are exactly shows made by a few actors for your evening news; it has nothing to do with how the people feel; but obviously the propaganda is so strong that people simply fail to see the truth and choose instead to believe the fanatics that fabricate the news. I suggest you go beyond your evening news if you want to learn about the realities of Iran today. yes.gif Well, I think when lunatics in the west are drawing cynical plans against Iran and boasting about them all the time, it's kind of hard to expect the Iranian politicians to make rosy remarks about their western counter-parts. yes.gif And how can any reasonable and intelligent person from my culture NOT be nervous about those warmongering maniacs from your culture? ohmy.gif I totally agree with you on people, especially the politicians on both sides not making an effort to understand each other and that's a real shame. The next best thing is for you guys to chain your lunatics before they hurt themselves and others and we'll try the same on our side, okay? yes.gif

Where is the love!

I don't know, it seems to be lost somewhere among all those nukes. Have the cleaning lady look for it next time she does your office! geek.gif

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Dr_Strangelove

I hate to tell you this Zeph but in all the corporate cost saving that has happened around here the cleaning lady was one of the first people to go. I have to clean my own office now and don't do a half bad job if I say so myself.

As much as I have come to admire the American nuclear establishment I don't relish the idea of our ever using it. The thing about having nukes is that they sort of grow on you. I don't have all that intimate an involvement with them. I spend most of my time thinking of new ways to insure the 3CI infrastructure.

I just wish more nations would see the very good reasons not to get into nukes in the first place. Its sort of like smoking; once you start its hard to quit.

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Stixxman

What kind of fantasy world do you live in Zeph, the flag burnings are fake? are you nuts? How far is the wool pulled over your eyes to be this ignorant of the truth. The only propoganda is whats coming out of your mouth.

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