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etvisitor7

'Gods' from the Stars

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etvisitor7

In "Gods and Spacemen in the Ancient East" (1968), W. Raymond Drake writes:

"In those glorious days when our Earth was young and Nature shone in newness, Celestials winged down from the stars (in "chariots of fire", "celestial cars", "vimanas", "bright clouds", etc) to teach the arts of civilisation to unsophisticated Man, creating that Golden Age sung by all the poets of Antiquity. For centuries the whole world basked in a brilliant culture (in Mu, Lemuria, Atlantis and other advanced Earth civilisations), humanity prospered under the benign rule of the Space Kings (so-called 'gods') who mastered a psychic science attuned to the cosmic forces of the universe and the powers within the human soul; they worshipped the Sun, the divine Androgyne, symbolising the Creator; they taught of life after death, reincarnation, ascending through existences in different dimensions to UNION WITH GOD. Earth's develpment was fostered by the Solar Planets in a higher octave of evolution; they fringed the Galactic Federation whose myriad worlds flowered in dazzling splendour; on treasured occasions Beings of transcendant wisdom (such as Jesus, Buddha and Krishna who were from high-dimensional, Etheric planets) would descend to Earth and impart their arcane secrets and technology to chosen Initiates. :yes:

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etvisitor7

I hope you like this site, it goes in-depth on vimanas.

http://www.ufoevidence.org/topics/Vimanas.htm

So many ancient civilizations refer to their gods being from the sky, etc.

Yelekiah, many thanks for the website link; I appreciate it. I'll check it out shortly. Mark :alien:

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mako

Somehow, I have trouble accepting theories or beliefs when there is not one iota of evidence that couldn't be better explained by alternate means. There is not one single item that can be attributed to aliens coming to earth in ancient times. It seems that even advanced races would lose items from their kits, pockets, purses or other carryalls. It also seems that we would find at least one of them, yet the absence of evidence is deafening! Ask again when you have any real evidence and then we will talk. :yes:

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Paranoid Android

Evidence Mako? Egypt has plenty of it. THe Pyramids of Giza for example are simply beyond the technical abilities of those people. The gradient of the side is much steeper than any other pyramid, suggesting that all pyramids were inferior copies of the Giza pyramids (where they came from, who knows. Perhaps a race of aliens????).

Additionally, some of the obelisks in Egypt have holes in them - there are rutt's and burr's inside the holes consistent with high-powered drills.

Elsewhere in the world - The Nazca Lines, the heads at Easter Island, Stonehenge, just to name a few. There are so many unexplained phenomena in our world, which may be best explained by aliens, or at the least a previous intelligent race on our planet (though there is no archaelogical evidence of the last).

regards, PA

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mako
Elsewhere in the world - The Nazca Lines, the heads at Easter Island, Stonehenge, just to name a few.

Isn't it awfully strange that you can only find the drilled hole or the lifted rock and never any remanent of the tool that drilled or lifted? Even advanced cultures would have tools broken or lost, yet there is not one little cog, broken drill bit, metal or plastic casing around, not one plastic food wrapping (sure they could have recycled, but you want to tell me that the ancient humans wouldn't have lusted after something as mundane as a clear plastic spoon - nothing like that exists in nature) or a a MRE (Meals Ready to Eat) pouch? Our species has proven over and over again, we can and do steal everything not nailed down. Those aliens would be lucky to have left still wearing their shorts and undershirts, that is if they could have left (we might have stolen their ships piece by piece). Sorry, the so-called "mysteries" have been shown to be man-made with no outside help. Archaeologists have demonstrated the methods that could have been used, but those that want "woo-woo" explanations tend to ignore logic. Same as religion and probably an off-shoot of the same psychological need. :yes:

Edited by mako

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Paranoid Android
Archaeologists have demonstrated the methods that could have been used

You mean like getting a rock and banging it for a couple of hours to produce a small hole to prove that obelisks could have been made that way?

look, don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating that there ARE aliens who came to this world. Just pointing out the possibilities. How do you think the markings of a high-powered drill could have appeared inside the hole? And how come only the Pyramids of Giza have a 42degree slope (from memory I think that's what it is), compared to every other pyramid's 36degree gradient (again, I think that's the specs) - considering a 42 degree slope would be difficult using modern tools, let alone ancient.

This is probably not the right section to ask those questions, assuming there is an answer, I'm just saying the possibilities are there.

Regards, PA

Edited by Paranoid Android

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mako

Have you ever seen or heard of a bow drill? With a flint drill bit, the bow drill could drill precise holes in bone, ivory, wood and softer stone, with a bronze drill bit, it could drill precise holes in stone (more slowly than a modern power drill, but you wouldn’t be able to tell it from a hole made by the former). Actually, different archaeologists have quarried stone in the ancient Egyptian manner from the original quarry, formed it in the manner the originals were formed, transported it in the same manner and lifted it (not to the top of a pyramid naturally) in the manner the Egyptians. They have shown how the ancient Indians could have laid out the Nazcan lines, how the lintels of Stonehenge were lifted into place, even how the statues of Easter Island were moved into place. There is a logical and valid explanation for all those mysteries. :yes:

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zandore

We would be hard pressed to build the Pyramids with the equipment we have today and match the close tolerances that the original builders achieved using ancient tools and ramps.

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mako

Isn't it wonderful what time and patience will accomplish. Spainard soldiers watched Incan builders slowly grind the stones down to close tolerances by using a suspended harness and rubbing the stone to be placed against the course of stones beneath it until it fit perfectly. I'm sure the Egyptians did the same. :yes:

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QuantumE

Somehow, I have trouble accepting theories or beliefs when there is not one iota of evidence that couldn't be better explained by alternate means. There is not one single item that can be attributed to aliens coming to earth in ancient times. It seems that even advanced races would lose items from their kits, pockets, purses or other carryalls. It also seems that we would find at least one of them, yet the absence of evidence is deafening! Ask again when you have any real evidence and then we will talk. :yes:

There's no evidence of god existing either, or any evidence of anything for that which you have not seen or something left behind for that matter. Can you prove that a man named Jesus the son of god existed? Just because people say they saw him dosent make it any more plausible then me telling you that I and a group of ten others just saw an alien in my kitchen.

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QuantumE

QUOTE MAKO

"Isn't it awfully strange that you can only find the drilled hole or the lifted rock and never any remanent of the tool that drilled or lifted? Even advanced cultures would have tools broken or lost, yet there is not one little cog, broken drill bit, metal or plastic casing around,"

So your saying if I shot someone with a beretta and took the bullet out, grabbed the spent casing then hide the gun that theirs not enough evidence to prove he was shot from a gun?

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zandore

Isn't it wonderful what time and patience will accomplish. Spainard soldiers watched Incan builders slowly grind the stones down to close tolerances by using a suspended harness and rubbing the stone to be placed against the course of stones beneath it until it fit perfectly. I'm sure the Egyptians did the same. :yes:

And maintain over-all tolerances:

North/south orientation

The squareness of the base

The angles of the sides

The whole structure level

There are over 2 million blocks in it.

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mako
There's no evidence of god existing either, or any evidence of anything for that which you have not seen or something left behind for that matter. Can you prove that a man named Jesus the son of god existed? Just because people say they saw him dosent make it any more plausible then me telling you that I and a group of ten others just saw an alien in my kitchen.

Now, are you trying to take my normal argument away from me? I can’t prove that he existed, but I can give you some pretty good evidence (not conclusive, but sure raises strong suspicion) that he never existed. I would ask you (as I would ask those claiming to see Jesus) for verifiable evidence of the alien in your kitchen. Eyewitnesses are the most unreliable evidence going, cops cringe when that is all they have available in a case. I will accept alien devices, DNA samples, or corpses as evidence….otherwise it is just another “woo-woo” story.

So your saying if I shot someone with a beretta and took the bullet out, grabbed the spent casing then hide the gun that theirs not enough evidence to prove he was shot from a gun?

Why yes I am. I have seen holes caused by crossbow bolts, iron rods, and other hard tubular items that look just like a hole caused by a bullet, even to the point that caliber can be determined. That is why MOs will not state positively (in the absence of a bullet, bullet fragments, etc) that a wound was cause by a bullet, only that possibly or probably was. But the question was why no evidence of alien tools, and since there is a lack of these tools and/or their components and the areas that they supposedly operated in are quite extensive, the probability based on this lack is that these tools never existed! Just bring us one laser hole-borer with an unknown language inscribed along it’s plastic, metal, or material of unknown composition casing and then the case for alien interference with our ancestors has some validity, otherwise, just another “woo-woo” story.

And maintain over-all tolerances:

North/south orientation

The squareness of the base

The angles of the sides

The whole structure level

As I said, time and patience is wonderful, you should see some of the things those artisans during the Middle Ages could do, with none of the tools or lenses or measuring equipment we have today! :yes:

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sanchera1978

so are you saying its Impossible that we may have had visitors from space and mistook them for gods?

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mako

Not impossible, but highly improbable. Had it happened, there would been physical evidence and there is none. :no:

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QuantumE

QUOTE MAKO

"Now, are you trying to take my normal argument away from me? I can’t prove that he existed, but I can give you some pretty good evidence (not conclusive, but sure raises strong suspicion) that he never existed. I would ask you (as I would ask those claiming to see Jesus) for verifiable evidence of the alien in your kitchen. Eyewitnesses are the most unreliable evidence going, cops cringe when that is all they have available in a case. I will accept alien devices, DNA samples, or corpses as evidence….otherwise it is just another “woo-woo” story."

So to you religion is a "woo-woo" theory, since you don't have any evidence for any of it.

QUOTE MAKO

"Why yes I am. I have seen holes caused by crossbow bolts, iron rods, and other hard tubular items that look just like a hole caused by a bullet, even to the point that caliber can be determined. That is why MOs will not state positively (in the absence of a bullet, bullet fragments, etc) that a wound was cause by a bullet, only that possibly or probably was. But the question was why no evidence of alien tools, and since there is a lack of these tools and/or their components and the areas that they supposedly operated in are quite extensive, the probability based on this lack is that these tools never existed! Just bring us one laser hole-borer with an unknown language inscribed along it’s plastic, metal, or material of unknown composition casing and then the case for alien interference with our ancestors has some validity, otherwise, just another “woo-woo” story."

Crossbow bolt impacts are very different from bullet impacts. Iron rods? huh? how what does an iron rod have to do with anything? You see a small hole wound in somebody but you dont have any evidence your going to know it's from a bullet.

From various tests on the wound, which would point that it is a bullet. Just like they tested these holes in the pyramids, they could only be made from some type of drill.

QUOTE MAKO

"As I said, time and patience is wonderful, you should see some of the things those artisans during the Middle Ages could do, with none of the tools or lenses or measuring equipment we have today!"

Were talking about pyramids on a grand scale built in ancient times that would take alot of technological tecniques needed. The rock the pyramids are made of came from an area that was hundreds of miles away from the site, and the biggest piece from the pyramid is over 100,000 tons, carrying something that big can't be acheived by todays advanced cranes, not to mention transporting it over hundreds of miles. The middle ages is a long time since the egyptian timeframe. The middle ages had castles made from stone, big woop thats a ginger bread house compared to the pyramids.

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QuantumE

Not impossible, but highly improbable. Had it happened, there would been physical evidence and there is none. :no:

The holes themselves are physical evidence. You dont need to have a bat sitting in your right hand to know that the baseball in your left hand can be hit by it.

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Nadal

Not impossible, but highly improbable. Had it happened, there would been physical evidence and there is none. :no:

I'm sure a civilization millions of year more advance than ours has ways of...you know...keeping themselves fomr clumbsy dropping something. . . I say they'd be more "wise" than that.

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Sherapy

IMO I don't think Mark is expecting anyone to give up their philosophy and this is the new Way, do you think its interesting do you think its not interesting , Is it possible is it not, the hardest thing to change is a beleif system because of a new idea no ones is gonna dissintegrate its a talk forum ,with that being said i think its an inteesting idea its an oppourtunity to look at things in new way have a little fun thankyou mark fior your great topics they are fresh Namaste sheri

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draconic chronicler

Are you saying Zandore, that you have "faith" that extraterrestrials helped build the pyramids because you do not think it within the abilities of ancient humans alone? Might such extraterrestrials be the root of most "God" legends then? I seem to have been under the impression from your previous posts that religion was all superstitious nonsense, yet now are you are suggesting a basis for it?

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Paranoid Android

Have you ever seen or heard of a bow drill? With a flint drill bit, the bow drill could drill precise holes in bone, ivory, wood and softer stone, with a bronze drill bit, it could drill precise holes in stone (more slowly than a modern power drill, but you wouldn’t be able to tell it from a hole made by the former).

I'm not denying there weren't drills. But I'm sorry to tell you Mako, but there is a big difference between the pattern of a high-powered drill and a hand-held one.

As I said, I'm not saying that this IS what happened - indeed, this theory would deem that the God I follow and worship is nothing more than an alien - but I'm just trying to show that there are unexplained mysteries out there that do not necessarily have a rational explanation.

Regards, PA

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zandore

Are you saying Zandore, that you have "faith" that extraterrestrials helped build the pyramids because you do not think it within the abilities of ancient humans alone?

I am not saying either way. The building of the pyramids alone is not the only anomaly involved with the pyramids.

It will probably surprise many people to know that evidence proving that the ancient Egyptians used tools such as straight saws, circular saws, and even lathes has been recognized for over a century. The lathe is the father of all machine tools in existence, and Petrie submits evidence showing that not only were lathes used by the ancient Egyptians, but they performed tasks which would, by today’s standards, be considered impossible without highly developed specialized techniques, such as cutting concave and convex sperical radii without splintering the material.
www.gizapower.com

Might such extraterrestrials be the root of most "God" legends then?
With the number of stars out there that are older that Sol (Our sun) it is ludicrous to think that we are the only intelligent species in this galaxy.

I seem to have been under the impression from your previous posts that religion was all superstitious nonsense, yet now are you are suggesting a basis for it?
I am not suggesting anything but it make more sense than a 6 or a 7 day creation fairy tale.

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zandore

I'm not denying there weren't drills. But I'm sorry to tell you Mako, but there is a big difference between the pattern of a high-powered drill and a hand-held one.

I have to agree with PA on this. Even in wood you can tell the difference between a hand drill and an old fashion hand crank drill.

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mako

Let me set the record straight. I do not discount the probability of non-terrestrial life in the universe, in this galaxy or even (galactically) relatively close to us. In fact, I would give the probability of such life existing a 95% chance. I wouldn’t even be surprised that there is life (probably simple) on Mars or on Titan (possibly complex, but not carbon/oxygen). Looking at the galaxy and the universe with their myriads of stars, stellar clusters, etc; the first thing you are struck by is the mind-boggling immensity of it all. The vast distances involved between galaxies, between stars and even between the planets of our solar system. Since the speed of light seems to be the speed limit in this continuum and the nearest star (a binary and probably not having a planetary system) is somewhere in the range of 4 light years away (38,000,000,000,000 km), we would take at least 4 years to travel to that system. Probably longer, since we can not even approach .5 C (half the speed of light) currently and won’t be able to, in the foreseeable future. Added into this is the fact that our resident galaxy is 150,000 light years across and the closest other galaxy (Andromeda) is 2.3 million light (21,000,000,000,000,000,000 km) years away, showing that even the local area encompasses immense distances, requiring unthinkable travel times (just to cross our galaxy at light speed would require more time than modern mankind has existed). Even if we could achieve the mythological FTL (faster than light) drive, in order to open up more than just the local block (an analogy), would require speeds of at least 1000 C (this would allow travel to Alpha Centuri in approximately 1 Terran calendar day), a speed that would let us explore our nearby neighbors, but little else. Then when you stop and think about the other factors that govern speed - inertia, centrifugal force, etc, it becomes obvious that even the speed of 1000 C would mean little to a thin smear of protoplasm on the buckling plates of a starship floor! I am not saying that FTL is impossible, just not really feasible with what we know, now and anytime soon. Even the thought of “warping” or “folding” space, would have it’s drawbacks….Still I do believe that eventually we will overcome at least one of the obstacles and achieve some sort of interstellar drive. As far as advanced intelligent life forms, well – our sun is a third generation star, which means that it coalesced in a dust nebula that was rich in metals, carbon, oxygen, etc. This led to a metal using life form capable of manipulating its environment by the use of tools. A first generation star would not have planets, being composed of the only two existing elements at that time Hydrogen and Helium. When these “pioneer” stars reached the end of their life cycles and went nova, they would have spewed a slightly enriched dust cloud into interstellar space. Eventually, the 2nd generation of stars would begin forming. These stars would be able to have planetary systems, but any planets forming would be metal poor and even if life formed and progressed, it would more than likely have been doomed to an eternal Stone Age existence. Finally our generation of stars would begin arising from the ashes of the 2nd generation stars. These stars would be able to have planetary systems, and these planets would be metal rich, water rich, and carbon rich. These planets would probably spawn myriads of life forms, a bustling, striving, fighting zoo of creatures that would very possibly lead to a mammal equivalent and even a human equivalent. These “humanoids” would develop tools, culture, religion (can you imagine the Sirusian equivalent of PA arguing the existence of his god to the Sirusian equivalent of Mako) and eventually science. Not being an astrophysicist, I can’t say how long this would take, but I like to think that the 2nd generation planets and their life would all be close to the same age. I don’t know, but I would think that no race would be 1,000,000 years ahead of another. I can see advanced by a few thousand years, but not much more. These creatures, if they managed to overcome all the obstacles I have mentioned and began interstellar exploration, they would not be the god-like creatures that you folks seem to expect them to be, but more like Joe at the corner bar. They would be as prone as us to lose tools, materials, documents, etc. Just as we are as prone as Homo Hablis or Homo erectus to lose items of daily use. For this reason, I can see the lack of physical evidence as indicative of lack of alien contact. I wish it wasn’t otherwise, but at present that how it seems. :yes:

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