Elephants are Forming "Armies"...

[SilverCougar]

*sighs* Joc.. stop it. I've explained my views and giving me senarios that will probaly never happen to me isn't going to help you're case any more then telling me I'm a sick individual like other's have.

[+joc]

Oh come on!!!! Play Gummbe, dammbit! No fun...going back to work on my taxes.

[SilverCougar]

OMGS I WOULD STRIP DOWN AND JUMP IN AND SAVE THAT SQUIRREL!! Then I would towel dry it, knitt is a sweater, give it some almonds and go on my way...

Is that what you want, Tax boy?? HUH!!?? ;P

[Prefect of Shouchun]

For gods sake, leave SilverCougar alone. She is allowed to think whatever she pleases and none of you are in any place to tell her that her opinions are wrong.

Please continue.

And i am doing the same.

By all right.. humans are no more then animals. I've favoring a balance. Where humanity isn't in this arrogant stance that other animals are less then them.

If you don't think humans are far superior than animals look around you. I hardly think this a debatable matter.

[SilverCougar]

*shrugs* what I see is different from what you do. Hardly a debatable matter... But let me ask you this. What's more superior? waisting land, building dirty cities, miles and miles of garbage dumps... or accually living within nature's balance like so many of the other species we share this planet with?

No.. on second thought... don't answer. I know the answer. *chuckles*

Right then... this has been fun, but like many other felines before me.. my intrest has wanned... have fun.

[Prefect of Shouchun]

*shrugs* what I see is different from what you do. Hardly a debatable matter... But let me ask you this. What's more superior? waisting land, building dirty cities, miles and miles of garbage dumps... or accually living within nature's balance like so many of the other species we share this planet with?

No.. on second thought... don't answer. I know the answer. *chuckles*

Right then... this has been fun, but like many other felines before me.. my intrest has wanned... have fun.

hmm fair enough but let me leave a quote.

"The act of living is for one's ownself, not others" - Sima Hui

[evil_kenshin]

But what you favor are stupid animals.

That it self shows that you have given up on social life.

see this is the problem, idiots like you who got the people who are killed into that situation, the "its an animal, who cares if its killed" type now the elephants are fighting back, so thats why to a degree they deserve it, I don't like the fact that innocent people are getting killed but at the same time they didnt really do to much to stop the poachers and have forced the elephants into this situation, this was an inevitable event

i mean its no different to on the official australian playstation site, there was a discussion about the japanese hunting the whales to extinction and many said who care if whales become extinct, so i hardly find humans superiori, sure we can kill many other species but we haven't got the brains to comprehend were doing to much negative stuff to other and that we should stop before we ruin the ecosystem even more than we have

Edited October 4, 2005 by evil_kenshin

[Prefect of Shouchun]

see this is the problem, idiots like you who got the people who are killed into that situation, the "its an animal, who cares if its killed" type now the elephants are fighting back, so thats why to a degree they deserve it, I don't like the fact that innocent people are getting killed but at the same time they didnt really do to much to stop the poachers and have forced the elephants into this situation, this was an inevitable event

i mean its no different to on the official australian playstation site, there was a discussion about the japanese hunting the whales to extinction and many said who care if whales become extinct, so i hardly find humans superiori, sure we can kill many other species but we haven't got the brains to comprehend were doing to much negative stuff to other and that we should stop before we ruin the ecosystem even more than we have

I do not understand what you are saying. Please clearify.

[evil_kenshin]

what i'm saying is the attitude that animals are stupid and it doesnt matter if their killed or not is the reason for the elephants starting the attacks in the first place

Edited October 4, 2005 by evil_kenshin

[Wingman]

*shrugs* what I see is different from what you do. Hardly a debatable matter... But let me ask you this. What's more superior? waisting land, building dirty cities, miles and miles of garbage dumps... or accually living within nature's balance like so many of the other species we share this planet with?

No.. on second thought... don't answer. I know the answer. *chuckles*

Right then... this has been fun, but like many other felines before me.. my intrest has wanned... have fun.

Sorry to hear you left the topic, silver . I was just about to show you an end of the world scenario labeled evil cats

[Richdog]

What I have to wonder is if any of the human-hating extremist population here at good ol' UM... that are glad to see elephants fight back and kill innocents for the faults of others... have any children. I would just be curious... because these people seem to see nothing good about humanity in the slightest. And trust me, that is not normal, it is completely morbid... and inaccurate.

People can spout all this "we are no different to animals" nonsense as much as they like, but i'm afraid evolution (or creation depending what you adhere to) would disagree with you 100%. We have been given full complex coignative capabilities, complex emotions, complex rationalising on a scale animals will never have. We can build cities, create wondrous works of art... fly into space for crying out loud! But... we're not different right?

The question should not be "are we better" because the answer to that is yes... but "do we have more rights"... and that is a difficult one to answer, with many grey areas. As far as destroying the habitat of wild animals goes and overhunting them, poaching them... no we have no right to do that. We have a right to take as much as we need to survive... as man has always done... but the problem here is that man is subject to greed and avarice, and will take more than his fair share. It is often the large corporate companies who rely on the desperation and neediness of the poor workers who have no choice but to do what is asked of them... or starve. Prime example being the deforestation of the Brazilian rainforest. Humanity as a whole isn't evil... it's the people who are unwilling to share what we have with nature and let their greed take what they have no right to take. They do not represent the whole of human nature though, not by a long chalk.

Theoretically speaking, given the scenario that you have one of two lifes you can save, however unlikely it may be... that of a human baby girl and a small puppy... whoever would choose to save the puppy in my humble opinion needs some serious psychological help. Period.

[evil_kenshin]

If you read my second last post (not this one or hte previouse one but the one before that) i said i don't like the fact that innocents are being killed, but it was an inevitable thing to happen also to answer your question, no i'm 18 and don't have any kids, nor do i view humanity in a fully negative few

<Removed redundant quote>

Edited October 4, 2005 by Richdog

[Baku]

*chuckles* Not going to work. I don't drive. And that kind of situation doesn't happen enough to make it valid.

But I would have to abid by human law... Since it's geared more to preserve human life. Which is... hitting a squirrel.. aww oh well. Hitting a child.. to avoid that other life...you're a horrible monster.

Damned if you do.. damned if you don't. So why does it matter what I choose. They're both living things.

Silver your a monster! I have never seen such a evil person in my life. Thank God there arent much of you guys!

The question should not be "are we better" because the answer to that is yes... but "do we have more rights"... and that is a difficult one to answer, with many grey areas. As far as destroying the habitat of wild animals goes and overhunting them, poaching them... no we have no right to do that. We have a right to take as much as we need to survive... as man has always done... but the problem here is that man is subject to greed and avarice, and will take more than his fair share. It is often the large corporate companies who rely on the desperation and neediness of the poor workers who have no choice but to do what is asked of them... or starve. Prime example being the deforestation of the Brazilian rainforest. Humanity as a whole isn't evil... it's the people who are unwilling to share what we have with nature and let their greed take what they have no right to take. They do not represent the whole of human nature though, not by a long chalk.

I agree here, most of those poor people are just doing what they are told by big companies. And this greediness is those companies fault not those innocent people who just work there.

[Purplos]

The following is a possible explanation for the "I hate humans" thing, and does not necessarily reflect the views of the management. <tee hee hee>

Some people, PERHAPS silvercougar included (I am NOT putting words in her mouth here), view the world as a living entity of a sort where things are always attempting to make a natural balance. Humans, thru killing off of species and ruining natural ecosystems, are destroying that balance. Elephants killing humans is an attempt of the Earth (Mother Nature... whatever) to regain that balance in some small way. Every being on the planet, whether it be a human or an elephant or a plant, is interconnected with every other being, making the individual unimportant except as it contributes to the natural balance.

[Talon]

What I have to wonder is if any of the human-hating extremist population here at good ol' UM... that are glad to see elephants fight back and kill innocents for the faults of others... have any children. I would just be curious... because these people seem to see nothing good about humanity in the slightest. And trust me, that is not normal, it is completely morbid... and inaccurate.

People can spout all this "we are no different to animals" nonsense as much as they like, but i'm afraid evolution (or creation depending what you adhere to) would disagree with you 100%. We have been given full complex coignative capabilities, complex emotions, complex rationalising on a scale animals will never have. We can build cities, create wondrous works of art... fly into space for crying out loud! But... we're not different right?

No offense, but by saying anyone who points out that we're animals is automatically a 'human-hating extremist' is itself an extremist view. I don't 'hate' humans and don't see anywhere on this thread where I've said I want babies to die, however, I am under no dillussion about our place in nature, and the rights of other species to live.

Also the extremist posts where people are swearing and insulting at other posters here is completely limited to those who place Humans above everything else. So far those on the elephants side haven't mentioned a single insult, yet they have been insulted for the last 8 pages by some of the most immuture b*tching this forum has seen.

Also, just because you have a different view from someone does not make them an 'extremist' and you a 'moderate'. Indeed animal rights activists are often called 'extreme', but then again, at one time so where those who wanted to end slavery and give blacks equality.

Also I don't want to start a debate or anything because I don't how its relevent to elephant rights, but you mention works of art and space. There have been 100 billion people in the existance of our species, of them only a few thousand were capable of great works of art. And of them those who could send men to the moon were in their hundreds. The average human such as you and I could not standing here send a man to the moon even if we had the knowledge of how to do it in a book, and we could never create it from scratch. Einstein's and Micheagelo's etc are one in a million (almost) super-humans who's creative abilities and intellegence is godlike to our own. As a UNi student I'll have an IQ above 130 easily, but compared to someone with an IQ of 250 I might as well be brain dead. My point is, all our acomplishments have been accomplished by the minority, not the majority. The Human species is where it is, by standing on the shoulders of giants a famous biologist once said.

[Richdog]

No offense, but by saying anyone who points out that we're animals is automatically a 'human-hating extremist' is itself an extremist view. I don't 'hate' humans and don't see anywhere on this thread where I've said I want babies to die

Then maybe I was not referring to you... I did not say "anyone who points out we are animals are automatically human-haters", you're putting words in my mouth again.

However, I am under no dillussion about our place in nature, and the rights of other species to live.

Neither am I, I went to great lengths to explain this in my post.

Also the extremist posts where people are swearing and insulting at other posters here is completely limited to those who place Humans above everything else. So far those on the elephants side haven't mentioned a single insult, yet they have been insulted for the last 8 pages by some of the most immuture b*tching this forum has seen.

Unfortunately I cannot control what Kuomi wriites and I have warned her for it via PM and made a note of it in the staff section. She knows if she carries on she's going to have trouble posting here.

Also, just because you have a different view from someone does not make them an 'extremist' and you a 'moderate'. Indeed animal rights activists are often called 'extreme', but then again, at one time so where those who wanted to end slavery and give blacks equality.

Of course someone having a different view as me does not m,ake them an extremist, but when that person posts enthusiastically about humans getting killed and how a human child is worth no more than an animal life then my opinion stems from there. I would put big money that Cougars views would be viewed as extreme by the majority of people that read them, especially those of a professional medical nature.

Also I don't want to start a debate or anything because I don't how its relevent to elephant rights, but you mention works of art and space. There have been 100 billion people in the existance of our species, of them only a few thousand were capable of great works of art. And of them those who could send men to the moon were in their hundreds. The average human such as you and I could not standing here send a man to the moon even if we had the knowledge of how to do it in a book, and we could never create it from scratch.

So... are you trying to say that because every human being in the world is not capable of such feats that it makes the achievements any less spectacular?

Einstein's and Micheagelo's etc are one in a million (almost) super-humans who's creative abilities and intellegence is godlike to our own. As a UNi student I'll have an IQ above 130 easily, but compared to someone with an IQ of 250 I might as well be brain dead.

lol really? You believe that just because you have a lower IQ you can not accomplish great things, that you may as well be brain-dead? How... umm... bizzarre...

My point is, all our acomplishments have been accomplished by the minority, not the majority. The Human species is where it is, by standing on the shoulders of giants a famous biologist once said.

I'm still unsure as to what the point of that is... do you think it is realistic for every human being to be able to achieve miracles in the lifetime? obviously not...

I'm not going to nit-pick over my every word, I made myself pretty clear I think, and I did not accuse "everyone" with a contradictory view of human-hating and extremism, I was quite specific as to what I meant.

That's all I have to say about my post... there's no point running back and forth over things i've made clear... (as has happened before).

Regards,

Rich.

Edited October 4, 2005 by Richdog

[Talon]

Then maybe I was not referring to you... I did not say "anyone who points out we are animals are automatically human-haters", you're putting words in my mouth again. wink2.gif

Not really I'm assumed you meant, Silvercouger as she's the only person who has mentioned hating humans. However, you mentioned Human hater's in plural tense, so my post is simily underlining that not everyone here who is on the elephants view is a human-hater. I'm not saying you'd beleived this, only that my post is to emphasis the difference between animal-lovers and Human-haters to those other readers.

However, I am under no dillussion about our place in nature, and the rights of other species to live.

Neither am I, I went to great lengths to explain this in my post.

Indeed, but I wasn't talking about you, I was talking about myself. Thats why I used the term 'I'. I wasn't saying I was the only person who beleived it, only that I did.

Unfortunately I cannot control what Kuomi wriites and I have warned her for it via PM and made a note of it in the staff section. She knows if she carries on she's going to have trouble posting here.

It is good to know that its not being ignored But what I meant in my post wasn't that those who beleived humans were above animals were all violent, only that the animal-lovers (Silvercouger included )are pretty passive for the title extreme.

Of course someone having a different view as me does not m,ake them an extremist, but when that person posts enthusiastically about humans getting killed and how a human child is worth no more than an animal life then my opinion stems from there. I would put big money that Cougars views would be viewed as extreme by the majority of people that read them, especially those of a professional medical nature.

Oh I agree that her views are pretty... 'extreme' (although I use that term with the least amount of enthusam). Certainly more extreme than my own. Her views are not much unlike Earth First! Ideology. However, I simply mean that extreme is really a matter of opinion and historical time framing.

So... are you trying to say that because every human being in the world is not capable of such feats that it makes the achievements any less spectacular?

I'm simply pointing out we are not gods.

lol really? You believe that just because you have a lower IQ you can not accomplish great things, that you may as well be brain-dead? How... umm... bizzarre...

No. I said even those with high IQs, if we hadn't reached the moon yet, would have no idea where to start, and neither would 98% of humans. Although ironically the weirdest ideas (such as making a giant firework) is capable of being grasped by anyone, but it needs an Einstein to turn that into a computer-run rocket. Humans of most intellegence levels can learn how to use an item, or even think of ways to improve on it, such as cars, but it took someone with one weird dream and one hell of an intellect to design the very first car.

In fact the whole concept of 'mad scientist' comes from this notion, as some of our most key theories of the world come from the most daft ideas. E.g. Gravity. For 3 million years humans walked around and never gave thought to why things fall. Then along came Newton, who was so intellegent he actually wondered why things fall when nobody had before him. Not only that he then managed create an acturate formula as to how it works, which many of us even today took at and think 'eh?'. Yet his 'mad' idea of gravity is now accepted by almost everyone.

Anyway, I didn't mean anyone who is not intellegent should be brain-dead, I'm simply pointing out there is no comparrision between a normal person's intellegence and an Einstein's intellegence.

I'm still unsure as to what the point of that is... do you think it is realistic for every human being to be able to achieve miracles in the lifetime? obviously not...

Course not, as I've said, only a one in a million Einstein can achieve 'miracles' in technological advancement. And the point of the paragraph was simply to point out that human society is so advanced because of the minority, not the majority when you said humans were above the other species because we put people on the moon. As I said, I'm not seeking to debate the issue as I don't think its relevent to the topic of elephants, I was simply clarifying an issue that had been raised.

[thebarman]

I think this can be solved by a quick reasoning, I think both sides seem to have got the wrong end of the stick of the other.

No one here is saying we want humans to die, and no one here is saying lets shoot all the elephants, but at the moment that seems to be what each side thinks of the other.

It's snowballed out of hand completely and both sides have been exaggerated, these people are going to get trampled by elephants no matter what we do and elephants are going to be shot over it. It all comes down to which side you feel more sorry for.

At a rate of three elephant deaths to one human, I'm on their side - but that's just my opinion

[Richdog]

lol... phew that was far less of a roasting than I was expecting... I agree with you Talon on most of your points now that we've both clarified (seems to always take us a couple of posts each to get our points accross eh?).

[Talon]

(seems to always take us a couple of posts each to get our points accross eh?). original.gif

Of course, we both have a lot to say

[Talon]

It's snowballed out of hand completely and both sides have been exaggerated, these people are going to get trampled by elephants no matter what we do and elephants are going to be shot over it. It all comes down to which side you feel more sorry for.

I'll agree with that, the topic doesn't hasn't seemed to be about elephants for the last 5 pages

[JennRose]

I don't hate humans (at least not all of us ), bu tI must say I can't feel a lot of sympathy for these people. As had been stated, elephants are obviously intelligent enough to form a hunting party, so are smart enough to realize what is being done to their brethren and land. If a village has abducted or killed a young elephant and its herd is seeking revenge, I have little sympathy.

[frogfish]

I have symapthy for them...cause i know of their way of life...if you went thruogh the hardships like that..going without eating for days because the elephhanst took your crops, i would feel no sypathy for the elephants...I just cant believe how people can choose elephanst over humans...

[frogfish]

i completely agree with you Richdog

First off all, I have to explain the true reason why elephanst are "attacking" people...Its not poachers...there havent been one for years there...its not a big buisness (its a VILLAGE)...Its just a community of people trying to get by on meager rations and very little money. In Westen India, they risk being killed by gharials and bull sharks while wading in chest deep water to catch shrimp...TO EAT, NOT TO SELL!

They need that food...those villages havent expnaded their borders for years! Elephanst see the easy food, come and eat crops. Then villagers get hungry and angry. Small children die of starvation. The villagers keep patrol at night...to SCARE AWAY ELEPHANTS! NOT HURT THEM. the villagers have no intention of hurting elephnats. they fire rifles into the air. this strategy worked for months, until a stray bullet killed a young elephnat. The villagers had no idea what to do with the carcass, but to eat it...they needed the food. So the elephanst came back, smelled the baby scent, and tore through the village looking for the baby...its a MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH TO BOTH SIDE...and if its between a human just trying to survive naturally, or animals trying to survive...i would have to go with the humans

[Richdog]

They need that food...those villages havent expnaded their borders for years! Elephanst see the easy food, come and eat crops. Then villagers get hungry and angry. Small children die of starvation. The villagers keep patrol at night...to SCARE AWAY ELEPHANTS! NOT HURT THEM. the villagers have no intention of hurting elephnats. they fire rifles into the air.

I saw this on TV on the news when the elephants were attacking. The people did not harm the elephants or once aim a gun at them, they just scared them off with loud noise and shots in the air.