Israelis urge U.S. to stop Iran's nuke goals

[Baku]

Oh, it is alright for the terrorists to laugh and celebrate 911 and hurricane Katrina, but when we get happy cause the terrorists might have died, you don't like that?

TOUGH

....isn't it like Baku to ignore the fact that I think the earthquake is horrible.... and that we stand ready to help Pakistan as they helped us with hurricane Katrina? If Baku would go onto the earthquake thread he would read some of what I have said. Shame on you, Baku.

I didnt know about the earthquake thread, but still its wrong to make such a statement surely you understand what I mean.

[Babs]

babs, acting like the terrorists do makes you no better than them. you should know that.

Guilty there. True, but they need a kick in the ....

....You know I don't really care about all this high-mindedness, being better than the terrorists; I only care about killing them. Killing them, killing them!

*KILL THE TERRORISTS*

...Hamas is trying to take over Syria with their stupid violence, now. I guess things are starting.

zep...I am still looking for something to post for you; I hope to find it soon, it was something I read and you mentioned it a day or two after I had read it. I read 5 and 6 books at a time, so 'heaven knows' what book it's in.

Edited October 12, 2005 by Babs

[wunarmdscissor]

what exactly did i get wrong?

where you not stating , that perhaps the earthquake had quite a big positive , in that it ma OR MAY NOT have killed a few terrorists among the tens of thousands of innocent dead men women and children?

i got what you meant. the problem is you just cant see how utterly sick you and your twisted points of view are.

[I am me]

Guilty there. True, but they need a kick in the ....

....You know I don't really care about all this high-mindedness, being better than the terrorists; I only care about killing them. Killing them, killing them!

*KILL THE TERRORISTS*

...Hamas is trying to take over Syria with their stupid violence, now. I guess things are starting.

zep...I am still looking for something to post for you; I hope to find it soon, it was something I read and you mentioned it a day or two after I had read it. I read 5 and 6 books at a time, so 'heaven knows' what book it's in.

they want to kill you, you want to kill them. perpetual war for a perpetual peace. it will never happen.

[Erikl]

Better yet, what does Stellar propose? I don't even know what your principles are. We don't seem to be on the same page, here, while some of your posting, I don't even comprehend. I know you have these high-blown ideals and won't go to war unless these principles are met. What do you say to your superiors on a day when your country hasn't quite come up to your standards? ... "Sorry, sarg, but I can't go today.".... I can't fight today, and I can't save my countrymen today because you guys haven't met my moral standards."

Babs, there is a principle in my military (and I believe that it exists in the Canadian military as well) which is called "manifestly unlawful command". As a soldier (well, an airman) I am obligated to disobey such an order.

As a matter of fact - I MUST disobey such orders as much as I have to defend my country.

If I won't disobey them, I'll be personally responsible for the outcome of my actions. The "I was just following orders" excuse isn't valid in the Israeli military, as I'm sure it isn't valid in the Canadian or the US militaries as well.

[Babs]

what exactly did i get wrong?

where you not stating , that perhaps the earthquake had quite a big positive , in that it ma OR MAY NOT have killed a few terrorists among the tens of thousands of innocent dead men women and children?

i got what you meant. the problem is you just cant see how utterly sick you and your twisted points of view are.

Nothing personal wun, but I think you are mental.

Where did I say I want tens of thousands of innocent people dead? Only in your mind. I said I want the terrorists dead. In fact, after I stated this, the news said the same thing,...that there might be a positive, in the fact, that Osama Bin Laden may be dead.

If you read my entire post you will see that I think the natural disaster is horrible and if you go to the earthquake post, as Baku did, you will see that I said the U.S. stands ready to help Pakistan (as they helped us in Hurricane Katrina). Which brings me to the next question. You were conspicuously absent during the terrrible hurricanes, we had, Katrina and Rita. You never came on the board and offered any compassion to any of us, here in the states. Why?

I think you are the disgusting one.

Edited October 12, 2005 by Babs

[Babs]

Babs, there is a principle in my military (and I believe that it exists in the Canadian military as well) which is called "manifestly unlawful command". As a soldier (well, an airman) I am obligated to disobey such an order.

As a matter of fact - I MUST disobey such orders as much as I have to defend my country.

If I won't disobey them, I'll be personally responsible for the outcome of my actions. The "I was just following orders" excuse isn't valid in the Israeli military, as I'm sure it isn't valid in the Canadian or the US militaries as well.

Thank you for giving that education there. Interesting and a good policy.

[Stellar]

Babs, there is a principle in my military (and I believe that it exists in the Canadian military as well) which is called "manifestly unlawful command". As a soldier (well, an airman) I am obligated to disobey such an order.

As a matter of fact - I MUST disobey such orders as much as I have to defend my country.

If I won't disobey them, I'll be personally responsible for the outcome of my actions. The "I was just following orders" excuse isn't valid in the Israeli military, as I'm sure it isn't valid in the Canadian or the US militaries as well.

On the day that my country is fighting for evil reasons (Hmm, lets put this situation up to the table. Canada, for whatever unlikely reason, decides that americans are infidels and wants to terrorise the US, much like Al Qaida wants to do to the US right now) I'll say "Sorry, but it is my duty to disobey a manifestly unlawful command such as..." Oh, I dont know... "Go and round up 100 civilians to execute as an example."

[Celumnaz]

assuming you understand what's going on at the time, one man's freedom fighter...

[Babs]

Honestly, Stellar I don't get what you are saying or what the big argument is. I don't have any problem or argument with that. But that isn't what we started out arguing.... you are confusing.

I don't like people trying to get out of the draft, for false reasons, stating that they don't believe in the war or fighting for their country or believing in violence. I don't believe or condone violence either, but there comes a time when you have to fight to survive. And I don't like the people who quibble about philosophy when your country needs you to go to war. "That don't get it, for me." I am for re-enacting the draft. I think this is what we were talking about...or it was, at least, what I was talking about.

[I am me]

Honestly, Stellar I don't get what you are saying or what the big argument is. I don't have any problem or argument with that. But that isn't what we started out arguing.... you are confusing.

I don't like people trying to get out of the draft, for false reasons, stating that they don't believe in the war or fighting for their country or believing in violence. I don't believe or condone violence either, but there comes a time when you have to fight to survive. And I don't like the people who quibble about philosophy when your country needs you to go to war. "That don't get it, for me." I am for re-enacting the draft. I think this is what we were talking about...or it was, at least, what I was talking about.

fighting to survive and being forced to fight somewhere else in a war that does not have any bearing on your life, now those are two different things. what's worse, lying to the government about why you don't want to fight, or forcing somebody to fight for a cause they may not believe in?

[Babs]

fighting to survive and being forced to fight somewhere else in a war that does not have any bearing on your life, now those are two different things. what's worse, lying to the government about why you don't want to fight, or forcing somebody to fight for a cause they may not believe in?

Could you elaborate on that. I think I agree on some of that...could you explain more of what you are saying?

...Forcing somebody to fight for a cause they truely don't believe in, is sad.

Edited October 12, 2005 by Babs

[Stellar]

Honestly, Stellar I don't get what you are saying or what the big argument is. I don't have any problem or argument with that. But that isn't what we started out arguing....

It is related.

you are confusing.

No, you are simply confused. Probably because you tried changing what I said and meant every so slightly in order to attack me.

I don't like people trying to get out of the draft, for false reasons, stating that they don't believe in the war or fighting for their country or believing in violence.

What if it was the German army drafting people in WW2?

I don't believe or condone violence either, but there comes a time when you have to fight to survive.

And thats fine. Fight to survive. Fight to help others get the liberty and justice they deserve. DONT, however, fight to kill innocent people simply because they have a certain belief.

And I don't like the people who quibble about philosophy when your country needs you to go to war.

What if its Germany during WW2? You think people should have faught for their country? The basis of their war was to subjugate people and kill the "sub humans". That is not just, that is not good, that is evil. Do you not oppose this? You'd be happy to be part of this?

"That don't get it, for me." I am for re-enacting the draft.

You know what I hate? I hate people who are so actively support war, drafts and say people should join and fight for their country, while they themselves do not. I hate that hypocrisy. How old are you babs? Why dont you join the army, hmm? I've seen people who were in their 40s and 50s doing basic training. Why havent you joined earlier, when you were younger. You're country "needed you" then too. Where were you then?

The truth is, you're scared. You dont want to go to war and possibly get killed. You like the comfort of your own home... the thing is, it eats away inside of you that you're too scared to do what you advocate. You are scared and always were, so you attempt to shrugg it off and hide that fear through the use of excuses and sarcasm in an effort to convince yourself and reassure yourself, and trying to convince others that you are a decent person.

Edited October 12, 2005 by Stellar

[british_patriot]

Well said Stellar!

[Mekorig]

Well said Stellar....there are too many "amrchair generals" in this forum. In other forum where i post, some have similar opinions, but at least ther have been in the army, or are in it.

[british_patriot]

Well said Stellar....there are too many "amrchair generals" in this forum. In other forum where i post, some have similar opinions, but at least ther have been in the army, or are in it.

How do you know I haven't joined the army?

[Celumnaz]

my respect for stellar (and Erikl) is keeping me from commenting on the many things wrong with what he's saying, and I kinda agree with the *general* stance. Hopefully my earlier statement in the context of what they're saying lights a bulb.

Hopefully it is sufficient to say for the more current theme of military service:

I don't need to be hit with a mac truck, to know it hurts.

[Babs]

Well, the first part of your post started off well, but at the end you got ridiculous. If what you say is true about me then why does it bother you guys? I mean, if I am scared and hoping to bolster myself, why don't you guys go debate somebody else?

I still don't get it. I am not scared. And many on here know that I am honest and will fight. Like I said before, if you guys think this, why the big uproar?

[Stellar]

my respect for stellar (and Erikl) is keeping me from commenting on the many things wrong with what he's saying

Go ahead and tell me what you think is wrong.

If what you say is true about me then why does it bother you guys?

Because of the abundant hypocrisy in advocating people joining the armed forces and risking their lives and saying you are doing this for good while you yourself are too scared to join. I have a problem with people putting down others for not joining, yet they themselves find excuses not to join.

I mean, if I am scared and hoping to bolster myself, why don't you guys go debate somebody else?

Because you keep comming back and acting like a hypocrite.

And many on here know that I am honest and will fight.

Words mean nothing. Actions mean everything. If you say you will fight, go and enlist. Otherwise, stop being a hypocrite and telling others what they should do.

[Fluffybunny]

The "I was just following orders" excuse isn't valid in the Israeli military, as I'm sure it isn't valid in the Canadian or the US militaries as well.

No it isn't, and if you watch the news, from time to time there is an assault charge or murder charge that pops up against a US soldier for doing something illegal. As a soldier your are help accountable for your actions if your step outside of the Geneva convention(as well as military artcicles of war).

As for babs earlier comment about my fairness, she is partially correct. Although I have been working at the fire department for the past couple days and have not had much chance ot visit the forum or comment on the tangent that this thread has gone off on lately. In theory I should have taken more time to read this thread and maybe help get things back on track, but I was busy helping people and protecting lives.

In looking at the exchange over the past page, I do get a guilty pleasure in seeing how far folks can stick their feet in their mouth making a point...

...It is a foible of mine, and if I were a better human being I would probably not get so much enjoyment out of it, but I do...

So yes babs, I was being unfair by letting you hang yourself. I should have taken time away from helping human beings in need in order to keep people from calling you on your interesting black and white position on topics that you get yourself into on a regular basis. With all of the tons of money that I make being a Moderator, I ought to just spend all of my waking hours protecting you from yourself and others who dislike your opinions.

I will take your opinion under advisement, and make sure that I dedicate myself and my time to protect you.

My deepest apologies for my critical error in judgement. I feel that I am a better human being for this exchange. Thank you.

[Fluffybunny]

Oh, and it would be very much appreciated if everyone could get back on track and try to stay on topic of Iran and their nuclear goals. Thank you.

...I feel more noble already.

[Thanato]

So whats teh count, Stellar 10 to Babs 0?

Stellar is a soldier, he knows what a (Canadian) soldier is to do, and he is a good man. To fight for your country is wrong, to fight for whats right is, well right, its good. Im not a soldier, though i will be enlisting as soon as i go to collage, as Stellar knows

So i think, Stellar has won, and stop arguing.

~Thanato

P.S. Babs you are a hypocrit.

[Babs]

No it isn't, and if you watch the news, from time to time there is an assault charge or murder charge that pops up against a US soldier for doing something illegal. As a soldier your are help accountable for your actions if your step outside of the Geneva convention(as well as military artcicles of war).

As for babs earlier comment about my fairness, she is partially correct. Although I have been working at the fire department for the past couple days and have not had much chance ot visit the forum or comment on the tangent that this thread has gone off on lately. In theory I should have taken more time to read this thread and maybe help get things back on track, but I was busy helping people and protecting lives.

In looking at the exchange over the past page, I do get a guilty pleasure in seeing how far folks can stick their feet in their mouth making a point...

...It is a foible of mine, and if I were a better human being I would probably not get so much enjoyment out of it, but I do...

So yes babs, I was being unfair by letting you hang yourself. I should have taken time away from helping human beings in need in order to keep people from calling you on your interesting black and white position on topics that you get yourself into on a regular basis. With all of the tons of money that I make being a Moderator, I ought to just spend all of my waking hours protecting you from yourself and others who dislike your opinions.

I will take your opinion under advisement, and make sure that I dedicate myself and my time to protect you.

My deepest apologies for my critical error in judgement. I feel that I am a better human being for this exchange. Thank you.

Why, thank you, fluffy, I am so glad you see the error of your ways. My job saved a few women's lives and their children losing a mother, so I can understand where you are coming from. I am older than you and have retired, but still work on the net with stalking and domestic violence victims, so, I guess, I can say a lot of things you can't. I also had a boyfriend who was a fireman and know that you guys are our heros.

Well, back to topic. No one has changed my mind on the topic here and it is soooo hard to debate all of you. Please ...one at a time.

Edited October 13, 2005 by Babs

[Babs]

So whats teh count, Stellar 10 to Babs 0?

Stellar is a soldier, he knows what a (Canadian) soldier is to do, and he is a good man. To fight for your country is wrong, to fight for whats right is, well right, its good. Im not a soldier, though i will be enlisting as soon as i go to collage, as Stellar knows

So i think, Stellar has won, and stop arguing.

~Thanato

P.S. Babs you are a hypocrit.

You are going to become a soldier as soon as you go to college? Wow, can that be considered hypocritical by UM standards??

Hey, this is interesting...will you be a part-time soldier or part-time student?

Edited October 13, 2005 by Babs

[Babs]

Hey, wun...no answer to my post? Why have you been conspicously absent when the U.S. was in trouble with hurricanes Katrina and Rita? You never came on the board and offered any compassion to the Americans. Why? Yet, you offer so much compassion for the other countries in disaster time. Do you still hate America that much?

You and seraphina have always seemed to cast me in the role of "wicked witch of the north" on the UM board. .........I guess I can accept that role FOR HALLOWEEN! Oh, gosh, I feel my claws growing, now; I wonder what mischief I can create on the UM board tonight?

I think I will have wundscissor stew. Cackle. Cackle.