[Merged] The Bosnian Pyramid Thread

[Bosanchero]

ooooo how i hate people that just want to be on the "WINNING" side, you join axis when you start losing you switch allies, but you keep door open in case you want to go back axis ???

"Mi Cemo Ispasti Budale" we will look like fools WHY ??? because we BELIVED in something and went through with it ??? well if someone is going to call me fool because of that than go right ahead, could care less

p.s. this means that millions in this world are fools because they folow different religions...

[Zlatan]

ooooo how i hate people that just want to be on the "WINNING" side, you join axis when you start losing you switch allies, but you keep door open in case you want to go back axis ???

I'm not going on the "winning" side. Are you saying that sceptics are winning against the foundation? I hope not...

I'm just saying that geological explenation is more logical.

"Mi Cemo Ispasti Budale" we will look like fools WHY ??? because we BELIVED in something and went through with it ??? well if someone is going to call me fool because of that than go right ahead, could care less

That's good, people shouldn't care about those kinds of things. However, how do you think our general image will be? Do you think there will be consequences? I do.

p.s. this means that millions in this world are fools because they folow different religions...

Religion is quite more different than archaeology and science. Science is based on evidence - religion is not. People just choosed to believe something that came from a book.

[Bosanchero]

I'm not going on the "winning" side. Are you saying that sceptics are winning against the foundation? I hope not...

I'm just saying that geological explenation is more logical.

i said that because obviously they have something better than we do if they can make your change your mind ...

That's good, people shouldn't care about those kinds of things. However, how do you think our general image will be? Do you think there will be consequences? I do.

Whats our General Image right now ???

99.99% of people in USA think that war is still happening In Bosnia, you must understand noone really gives a #### about us, this will change nothing if its nothing, if its something it will improve our status, so we got nothing to lose ??? Correct ???

Religion is quite more different than archaeology and science. Science is based on evidence - religion is not. People just choosed to believe something that came from a book.

actually what i am talking about is EXACLY THE SAME,

there is evidence that says loads of stuff in bible is wrong, but people still belive because someone long time ago told everyone they should

even if Osmanagich is doing the same thing what gives any of you right to stop him ??

hope u understand me a bit better now, if not i will talk to you on MSN when i get a chance

[Zlatan]

Whats our General Image right now ???

99.99% of people in USA think that war is still happening In Bosnia, you must understand noone really gives a #### about us, this will change nothing if its nothing, if its something it will improve our status, so we got nothing to lose ??? Correct ???

People will think that all of this was organised propaganda just to collect more money and get international attention. Which we in a way need, but, if you can't help Africa, you can't help Bosnia. If you know what I mean?

even if Osmanagich is doing the same thing what gives any of you right to stop him ??

Any of you!? Dear Bosanchero, I have nothing against Osmanagic personally, nor the Foundation. They can dig whatever they want. No one can stop them.

hope u understand me a bit better now, if not i will talk to you on MSN when i get a chance

I understand you very well. But i'm still interrested in speaking with you at MSN, though it would be easier if you were located in Europe!!!

[edo bg]

People will think that all of this was organised propaganda just to collect more money and get international attention. Which we in a way need, but, if you can't help Africa, you can't help Bosnia. If you know what I mean?

Any of you!? Dear Bosanchero, I have nothing against Osmanagic personally, nor the Foundation. They can dig whatever they want. No one can stop them.

I understand you very well. But i'm still interrested in speaking with you at MSN, though it would be easier if you were located in Europe!!!

Even if the hill is a natural formation, it is without a doubt that there is a lot of work done by man on it. Some of the structures can be explained by the work of nature if you try hard enough ( i don't think it was), but there are structures especially on piramida mjeseca that can not be explained as works of nature. Either way you put it Osmanagic is not wasting our time.

[Bosanchero]

Even if the hill is a natural formation, it is without a doubt that there is a lot of work done by man on it. Some of the structures can be explained by the work of nature if you try hard enough ( i don't think it was), but there are structures especially on piramida mjeseca that can not be explained as works of nature. Either way you put it Osmanagic is not wasting our time.

thats what i am saying even if its not piramids, there is something there we didnt know about and wether you like it or not OSMANAGIC found it ...

[Shaftsbury]

It's only my opinion but I think you are taking this way too personally.

What is the purpose of an excavation? it's to find the truth isn't it?

The truth can be any of 3 possibilities as far as I can see:

1) The pyramids are entirely natural

2) The pyramids are entirely man made

3) The pyramids are a combination of 1 and 2

If you are going to pick sides, pick the one that uses good science, and ignores public opinion.

They do need to continue digging until they reach the point where the evidence is indesbutable.

[Bosanchero]

It's only my opinion but I think you are taking this way too personally.

What is the purpose of an excavation? it's to find the truth isn't it?

The truth can be any of 3 possibilities as far as I can see:

1) The pyramids are entirely natural

2) The pyramids are entirely man made

3) The pyramids are a combination of 1 and 2

If you are going to pick sides, pick the one that uses good science, and ignores public opinion.

They do need to continue digging until they reach the point where the evidence is indesbutable.

very smart comment however if you take a look at the link in my signature, it seems that Sceptics want excavation to stop thats what i dont understand are they afraid they will be proven wrong or what ?

[Shaftsbury]

I suppose it depends on whether the skeptic is a professional or simply an interested observer.

Credibility goes a long way to the point where it could make or break someones career, and no doubt there are a few people out there who may have a great deal to lose depending on the outcome.

However, quitting a project mid stream probably won't bolster your credibility much either.

[dmurdock36]

My only problem with this whole thing is that science is supposed to be pure science not politics, not a way to make money. Once you bring politics and money into any scientific discovery it destroys the science. I think they want them to stop digging because this is a historic spot already and they dont want that destroyed while trying to find a pyramid.

[Zlatan]

Even if the hill is a natural formation, it is without a doubt that there is a lot of work done by man on it. Some of the structures can be explained by the work of nature if you try hard enough ( i don't think it was), but there are structures especially on piramida mjeseca that can not be explained as works of nature. Either way you put it Osmanagic is not wasting our time.

What do you believe is natural? On pljesevica, everyone agrees this is manmade, even the sceptics:

1) The pyramids are entirely natural

2) The pyramids are entirely man made

3) The pyramids are a combination of 1 and 2

Well there could be additional possibilities. Such as;

1) The pyramids are natural, but do have artificial remains (As seen as above.)

2) The pyramids are artificial, but do have natural features.

But what makes it a pyramid? We haven't found steps, entrance, artefacts (related to pyramidal structures.) etc. The only thing that indicates this is a pyramid is the shape. Even though it's not all 4 sides.

however if you take a look at the link in my signature, it seems that Sceptics want excavation to stop dontgetit.gif thats what i dont understand

Neither do I. That's stupid. I mean, if someone believes there's nothing underneath these hills, why try to stop the excavations then? When you're so confident about it being nothing...

this is a historic spot already and they dont want that destroyed while trying to find a pyramid.

Yes, Visoko is a Medieval town. People claim that there's remains on top of Visocica of a castle. Though, I haven't seen any pictures that confirms this.

Besides, no one cared about this. It wasn't protected before. Suddenly, sceptics take this in focus and use it as a way to stop the excavations from ruining the remains.

[dmurdock36]

Yes, Visoko is a Medieval town. People claim that there's remains on top of Visocica of a castle. Though, I haven't seen any pictures that confirms this.

Besides, no one cared about this. It wasn't protected before. Suddenly, sceptics take this in focus and use it as a way to stop the excavations from ruining the remains.

Well if that is true then I dont understand why they would want to stop excavating there unless there is something there they dont want them to find, it could just be that the so called experts dont want to be proved wrong so they want them to stop so that wouldnt happen, if so this is a case of personal beleif coming in conflict with science and that should be stopped.

[Irna]

Yes, Visoko is a Medieval town. People claim that there's remains on top of Visocica of a castle. Though, I haven't seen any pictures that confirms this.

Besides, no one cared about this. It wasn't protected before. Suddenly, sceptics take this in focus and use it as a way to stop the excavations from ruining the remains.

Hi Zlatan,

here are some links that could interest you (the pages are in bosnian and english, but more complete in bosnian) :

photos of the fortress on Visocica

The history of Stari Grad Visoki (at the end of the page, an interesting mention by the commission for national monuments of the different types of risks that could endanger the monument)

The protected national monuments of Visoko (and yes, the fortress was protected)

Irna

[Zlatan]

Hi Zlatan,

here are some links that could interest you (the pages are in bosnian and english, but more complete in bosnian) :

photos of the fortress on Visocica

Thank you very much Irna, it's first time I see pictures of these remains.

The history of Stari Grad Visoki (at the end of the page, an interesting mention by the commission for national monuments of the different types of risks that could endanger the monument)

Ofcourse it could cause damage of the remains. But it depends where the foundation sets the excavations. The current excavations are near the bottom of Visocica, I doubt anything can be destroyed.

Even if they're going to dig higher up the hill, they would need to ask for permissions.

The protected national monuments of Visoko (and yes, the fortress was protected)

Surely it was protected, officially. But before the international focus on the town, I doubt it was.

[louie]

October 31, 2004

More Peruvian pyramids ?

Recently, Peru got its own proper pyramids: Caral. But are they the only pyramids in Peru? On December 30, 1975, the Landsat II satellite photographed over the jungles of southeastern Peru (13 degrees south latitude; 71.30 degrees west longitude) in the Madre de Dios region of the Amazon. The site is known as Parotoari by the local Machiguenga Indians. The photo shows eight symmetrical structures on the edge of the Amazon jungle. Further reconnaissance by helicopter confirms these pyramid-shaped structures. The Institute of Andean Archeology in Lima estimated that each object had a height that was slightly less than the height of the Great Pyramid, which would make them sit in the same category as the pyramids of Caral.

Two enormous rectangular forms in the vegetation, as well as two other semi-circles to the south, have been identified nearby. It suggests they are linked to the pyramids.

Natural or artificial? That question was asked in the 1980s by Charles Berlitz. At present, that question remains open. Some expeditions to the site were organised in the late 1970s, each of which failed. One expedition was mounted in 1996, which described the area as “amongst the most uncomfortable we’ve ever encountered”. That expedition stated that they believed the formations to be natural features.

Some have speculated that the structures show “washouts”, in which trees and shrubs “washed out” along the side of the structure, unable to get a firm hold in the ground. Suggestive of an artificial origin? Who knows. At present, it seems that Caral might still be a unique site – but will it remain so?

link

http://www.philipcoppens.com/roadnews01.html

[+DieChecker]

here are some links that could interest you (the pages are in bosnian and english, but more complete in bosnian) :

photos of the fortress on Visocica

The protected national monuments of Visoko (and yes, the fortress was protected)

Very interesting. Thanks for posting this information. I had read there was a fortress, but had not seen the layout of the walls and buildings before.

[Bosanchero]

Hi Zlatan,

here are some links that could interest you (the pages are in bosnian and english, but more complete in bosnian) :

photos of the fortress on Visocica

The history of Stari Grad Visoki (at the end of the page, an interesting mention by the commission for national monuments of the different types of risks that could endanger the monument)

The protected national monuments of Visoko (and yes, the fortress was protected)

Irna

People digging have gone NOWHERE CLOSE to the top of the hill, where VISOKI is located ! ! ! and you know this irna, so lets stop the BS, nothing is beeing destroyed, VISOKI is still protected, i myself would kick OSMANAGICHS BUTT if he was destroying an medival capital of MY COUNTRY,

but hes not so stop making it look like he is

[Shaftsbury]

Are all the ruins of medieval/earlier works documented somewhere?

It seems to me that if you have a medieval castle at the top of the mountain it's a pretty good bet that you are going to have tunnels and other man made structures at the bottom and possibly throughout.

Is it possible for them to say what is medieval and what is truly ancient if they find something?

[sonofkrypton]

Are all the ruins of medieval/earlier works documented somewhere?

It seems to me that if you have a medieval castle at the top of the mountain it's a pretty good bet that you are going to have tunnels and other man made structures at the bottom and possibly throughout.

Is it possible for them to say what is medieval and what is truly ancient if they find something?

good point i hope after all the dust settles that they haven't ruined real history with all the digging ?????????

[Irna]

Are all the ruins of medieval/earlier works documented somewhere?

It seems to me that if you have a medieval castle at the top of the mountain it's a pretty good bet that you are going to have tunnels and other man made structures at the bottom and possibly throughout.

Yes, that's a very good point. In the page in bosnian I mentioned they talk about some terraces on the south and west slopes of Visocica that have probably been used by medieval settlements. There also seems to have been a medieval town called Podvisoki under the hill and the fortress. But none of this was ever properly excavated or documented. The fact is that M. Osmanagic's team is looking for a pyramid, so they are digging off the dust as quick as possible in order to reach the stone slabs, they are not really interested in what could be found in the dust... And you must not forget that there are, in the near vicinity of Visoko, some really important neolithic sites (Okoliste), and that the region was inhabited continuously since the last thousands years, so that every excavation in this region could well endanger archaeological sites if not correctly managed. In that context, the use of a bulldozer, however small, is disquieting, even if they are not actually digging at the fort of Visoki.

Irna

[odas]

Yes, that's a very good point. In the page in bosnian I mentioned they talk about some terraces on the south and west slopes of Visocica that have probably been used by medieval settlements. There also seems to have been a medieval town called Podvisoki under the hill and the fortress. But none of this was ever properly excavated or documented. The fact is that M. Osmanagic's team is looking for a pyramid, so they are digging off the dust as quick as possible in order to reach the stone slabs, they are not really interested in what could be found in the dust... And you must not forget that there are, in the near vicinity of Visoko, some really important neolithic sites (Okoliste), and that the region was inhabited continuously since the last thousands years, so that every excavation in this region could well endanger archaeological sites if not correctly managed. In that context, the use of a bulldozer, however small, is disquieting, even if they are not actually digging at the fort of Visoki.

Irna

Everything is possible. But, I am just wondering, why did noone give a damn sh** about the fortress and the possible medievel settlement before Mr. Osmanagic started digging?

As usual, everybody is smarter afterwards and the dumbest are the smartest.

Knowing our mentality the "experts" are threven to deny anything about a pyramidical structure because they were not able to recognize the significanse of this Hill, with or without a pyramid underneath. Tacka.

[+DieChecker]

Are all the ruins of medieval/earlier works documented somewhere?

It seems to me that if you have a medieval castle at the top of the mountain it's a pretty good bet that you are going to have tunnels and other man made structures at the bottom and possibly throughout.

Is it possible for them to say what is medieval and what is truly ancient if they find something?

There would need to be a road, at least, that went up to the fortress. Do we know were that road is?

Everything is possible. But, I am just wondering, why did noone give a damn sh** about the fortress and the possible medievel settlement before Mr. Osmanagic started digging?

That is not true. Someone said in an earlier post that the Fortress was a National Historic Monument site or something.

In the US we would need hundreds of pages of paperwork, including permits, land surveys, expert opinions, environmental studies, etc... before anyone could dig so close to a historic site. Some of us just think it is unprofessional to just dig away whole areas to expose the blocks under the dirt, ignoring any other artifacts or sites that are found in the dirt above the blocks.

[Bosanchero]

In the US we would need hundreds of pages of paperwork, including permits, land surveys, expert opinions, environmental studies, etc... before anyone could dig so close to a historic site. Some of us just think it is unprofessional to just dig away whole areas to expose the blocks under the dirt, ignoring any other artifacts or sites that are found in the dirt above the blocks.

Have you been in VISOKO ??? how do you know work is done UNPROFESIONALLY ??

please someone tell me its not only me that sees a PATERN in all this

FIRST sceptics said that all the STONE SLABS were the remains of the "VISOKI" that fell apart and magicly slid down the hill on all 4 sides... HOWEVER when this theory was proven to be COMPLETLY WRONG by the digging done on "Pyramid of Moon" all the sceptics decided to say ITS ALL NATURAL, because it has to be,

sceptics were facing with VERY dificult decision, since there is 2 of these hills it either had to be pyramid complex, or NATURAL HILL, not willing to fall under the BELIVERS train most sceptics decided to say that kahm it was NATURAL...

than one after another MANY MANY geologists, archeologists said that it was all MAN MADE, and ONE said it was natural...

after the examination of the "GLUE" that connects slabs was done, it was concluded that it is MANMADE, so now we go back to VISOKI, and how its DANGEROUS to dig near it,

ARE YOU SERIOUS ??? really what do you want ??? are you bosnian ??? is VISOKI your Medival CAPITAL ??? do you have anything to do with VISOKI ??? COULD you have even shown VISOKO on a Map before all this ??? Can you find visoko on map now ???

where exacly were you all before the pyramid idea ??? who cared about VISOKI back than ??? any of you ??? NOTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT !!! so what do you want now than ??? go away leave the man alone, let him do this job,

OKOLISTE is close by but so is Sarajevo (that means nothing) Visoki is on top of visocica (ut diging is done nowhere near it) so whats the problem ???

you want to see how interested ARCHEOLOGYSTS in bosnia are in our history ???

here you go i show youmy city

Built in 13 or at the start of 14 century i visited it last summer, what pics show is NOTHING compared to whats on top of the hill at enterence to my city wall about 5 m high goes for about 100M up hill and stops a the (Old Zvornik) which is a Fortress... You can not access the fortress due to the fact that its completly overgrown but the fact/ or rather a point i am trying to make is NOONE CARES ABOUT IT, however if i went to Zvornik and said that there is a TOMB inside the hill, i would be stoped by these same skeptics bitcing and moaning about that fortress as well, and to point out in 1480 zvornik was a state under Turkish rule, one of the 3 in the Bosnia region. (see the Importance ??? ) yet noone seems to care

and 99.99% of you never even HEARD of any of this until i just posted it ... thats how ARCHEOLOGICLY ADVANCED MY GREAT COUNTRY IS

P.S. Its 2:40 AM SO please IGNORE spelling Mistakes

[odas]

Very true Bosanchero.

I was in Zvornik a gzillion times and drove under the bridge. Nobody ever cared about it, just like noone cared about Visocica. Now everyone is all of a sudden so "concered".

I know what the concern is. Digging in those areas would mean changing the History of this part of Europe and in the case of Visocica maybe even the World.

As for our "experts" it is a matter of pride. All those things were always in front of their "scientific" nose and they did not see it.

Now they want to hide their failure.

Mr. Osmanagic is defenitly on a major discovery, even if it is important only localy.

That is why I say: Keep on diggin', Semirbeg.

You know what I liked the most in Zvornik? A beautiful girl names Amela, and of course the famous white Bread.

[Essan]

Everything is possible. But, I am just wondering, why did noone give a damn sh** about the fortress and the possible medievel settlement before Mr. Osmanagic started digging?

Simple: money. It's costs a lot of money to finance a proper archaeological dig. Plus you need people to carry out the dig.

Obviously, outside of Bosnia few people knew of its existence. But even then, a big American University, for example, if given the choice of spending 10 years digging at Visocica, a Mayan temple complex or an Egyptian Tomb is unlikely to go for Visocica. Sadly, such work is only going to be carried out by local archaeologists. If they can ever obtain money to do it....

And given recent history, I rather feel that local people had more pressing demands than putting together a finance plan to excavate an old fortress.