Helen of Annoy Posted April 26, 2011 #1326 Share Posted April 26, 2011 Yes, it does. Yes, it is. Next question please. Harte Does it naturally come with inscriptions too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
questionmark Posted April 26, 2011 #1327 Share Posted April 26, 2011 Does it naturally come with inscriptions too? No, but generally the inscriptions are newer than the rock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helen of Annoy Posted April 26, 2011 #1328 Share Posted April 26, 2011 No, but generally the inscriptions are newer than the rock. heh Speaking of inscriptions, all the inscriptions from inside tunnels in Visočica are considered fake, right? I was wondering why. It is possible someone (Semir) faked them, but it’s also possible that they’re real, made by culture like Vučedol culture, for example. Just because Vučedol culture is not that popular doesn’t mean it wasn’t very real and it also left artifacts with complex set of graphic symbols, a writing actually. Honestly, I have no idea what was the reason why those inscriptions were deemed fake, probably the traces of modern tools? How accurate was the method used? Were chemical traces of modern alloys found or it was only someone’s subjective opinion that inscriptions look like they were made by modern tools? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irna Posted April 26, 2011 #1329 Share Posted April 26, 2011 (edited) I will not argue weather it is a pyramid or not but the link you gave is a proven anti-bosnian site. This site is a facsistic site which denies the Bosnian statehood. So much for the credibility. "proven anti-bosnian"? "facsistic"? Odas, you have already said some similar things in this same thread, and have not been able to provide with any argument: http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=53967&st=1170&p=2052587entry2052587 So I'll repeat: Could you please, one of you Edo or Odas, provide a single post from me, either here or on my website or on any forum, where I am supposed to show "hatred" to Bosnia or Bosnians? or any nationalistic trend? Please give us a quotation and a link, or else shut up on this subject. And let me say that the lack of respect for Bosnia is more on the side of the ones who have slandered its intellectuals and scientists for more than two years. You just have to replace "two years" with "five years"... I rather have you posted something new from Anthony Harding or someone else credible who does not believe in the pyramids. Is Dr. Nabil Swelim (you know, the chairman of the 2008 conference in Sarajevo) sufficiently credible for you? http://www.nabilswelim.com/downloads/vic_10.pdf Is Dr. Amer Smailbegovic (the one who provided the Foundation with a satellite analysis) sufficiently credible for you? http://irna.lautre.net/IMG/pdf/Geo_Vis_Eng_806.pdf Strangely, none of these reports has ever been published on the Foundation website... For Helen of Annoy: Speaking of inscriptions, all the inscriptions from inside tunnels in Visočica are considered fake, right? I was wondering why. Mr. Osmanagic's former geologist, Ms. Nukic, thinks they were carved by one of the workers at the very beginning of the exploration of the tunnel: http://irna.lautre.net/Nadija-Nukic-Osmanagic-has-driven.html and http://irna.lautre.net/In-search-of-the-lost-reports.html Even if you don't believe Ms. Nukic's version, there are some very strange circumstances around the discovery of these inscriptions, including the fact that the Foundation claims that they were discovered by Dr. Aly Barakat on April 29, 2006, when Dr. Barakat arrived in Visoko on May 15, 2006: http://irna.lautre.net/In-which-the-proto-Bosnian.html Cordially, Irna Edited April 26, 2011 by Irna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oniomancer Posted April 27, 2011 #1330 Share Posted April 27, 2011 I will not argue weather it is a pyramid or not but the link you gave is a proven anti-bosnian site. This site is a facsistic site which denies the Bosnian statehood. So much for the credibility. In as much as the site is ostensibly anti-Osmanagic, who happens to be Bosnian, and that it denies Bosnia as the home of an ancient super-civilization, then yes. Beyond that, one struggles to see how you arrived at that conclusion. In point of fact, Irna has shown herself to be a supporter of the Bosnian people against those who would destroy their cultural heritage to make a quick dishonest buck and make them a laughing stock. I rather have you posted something new from Anthony Harding or someone else credible who does not believe in the pyramids. If you feel Irna's or her correspondent's research is not credible, then by all means, feel free to provide refutation. Given what I've observed of Osmanagic's talent for fact manipulation however, you'll forgive me if I don't take his word as such without verification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odas Posted April 27, 2011 #1331 Share Posted April 27, 2011 "proven anti-bosnian"? "facsistic"? Odas, you have already said some similar things in this same thread, and have not been able to provide with any argument: http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=53967&st=1170&p=2052587entry2052587 So I'll repeat: You just have to replace "two years" with "five years"... Is Dr. Nabil Swelim (you know, the chairman of the 2008 conference in Sarajevo) sufficiently credible for you? http://www.nabilswelim.com/downloads/vic_10.pdf Is Dr. Amer Smailbegovic (the one who provided the Foundation with a satellite analysis) sufficiently credible for you? http://irna.lautre.net/IMG/pdf/Geo_Vis_Eng_806.pdf Strangely, none of these reports has ever been published on the Foundation website... For Helen of Annoy: Mr. Osmanagic's former geologist, Ms. Nukic, thinks they were carved by one of the workers at the very beginning of the exploration of the tunnel: http://irna.lautre.net/Nadija-Nukic-Osmanagic-has-driven.html and http://irna.lautre.net/In-search-of-the-lost-reports.html Even if you don't believe Ms. Nukic's version, there are some very strange circumstances around the discovery of these inscriptions, including the fact that the Foundation claims that they were discovered by Dr. Aly Barakat on April 29, 2006, when Dr. Barakat arrived in Visoko on May 15, 2006: http://irna.lautre.net/In-which-the-proto-Bosnian.html Cordially, Irna Irna, eh? The fact that you are promoting your own website on UM is great. Moderators be aware. I believe this is against the UM rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odas Posted April 27, 2011 #1332 Share Posted April 27, 2011 „After visiting Bosnian Valley of the Pyramids I can say with certainty that it is the product of human work“, said by american engineer, scientist and researcher Christopher Dunn in Wednesday at press conference in Sarajevo Dunn stressed out in media statements that he was especially impressed by underground tunnel complex which was, he said, obiously created by human hand and added how he presumes that on this location operated civilzation with highly developed technology. http://www.piramidasunca.ba/en/index.php/CHRISTOPHER-DUNN-HAS-VISITED-PYRAMIDS-IN-VISOKO-THIS-IS-A-GREAT-MYSTERY.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swede Posted April 27, 2011 #1333 Share Posted April 27, 2011 „After visiting Bosnian Valley of the Pyramids I can say with certainty that it is the product of human work", said by american engineer, scientist and researcher Christopher Dunn in Wednesday at press conference in Sarajevo Dunn stressed out in media statements that he was especially impressed by underground tunnel complex which was, he said, obiously created by human hand and added how he presumes that on this location operated civilzation with highly developed technology. http://www.piramidas...AT-MYSTERY.html Which may be of importance were it not for the reality that Dunn is a machinist, is not a trained or qualified scientist, has a notable tendency to exaggerate his curriculum vitae, and has "rather' questionable research credentials. Just for starters: http://www.gizapyramid.com/BIO-Dunn.htm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Dunn_%28author%29 Can understand why you may have been initially impressed by the salesmanship. Do not be misled. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted April 27, 2011 #1334 Share Posted April 27, 2011 Honestly, I have no idea what was the reason why those inscriptions were deemed fake, probably the traces of modern tools? How accurate was the method used? Were chemical traces of modern alloys found or it was only someone’s subjective opinion that inscriptions look like they were made by modern tools? What I read years ago, was that several local people went and explored some of the tunnels with, or for, Semir, and several of them said there was no scribings on anything when they went in there. This was just after the first "symbol" was found. Numerous pics were taken of the single symbol. But all those pics disappeared off Pro-pyramid sites, when pics of the same boulder and some walls, showed up with more symbols on them. If you go after a boulder with a rock hammer and make lines it is easy to tell it was recent. The first pics all looked incredibly new. The lines were all light colored and had no debris in them. Latter pics showed the lines of the symbols as much darker in the lines and had debris on them. Like someone was trying to make them look older. The fact that the number and variety of the symbols seems to have increased with time, and the older pics showing less symbols disappearing off the Bosnian-pyramid sites, seem to me to point at the symbols being faked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted April 27, 2011 #1335 Share Posted April 27, 2011 „After visiting Bosnian Valley of the Pyramids I can say with certainty that it is the product of human work“, said by american engineer, scientist and researcher Christopher Dunn in Wednesday at press conference in Sarajevo Dunn stressed out in media statements that he was especially impressed by underground tunnel complex which was, he said, obiously created by human hand and added how he presumes that on this location operated civilzation with highly developed technology. http://www.piramidasunca.ba/en/index.php/CHRISTOPHER-DUNN-HAS-VISITED-PYRAMIDS-IN-VISOKO-THIS-IS-A-GREAT-MYSTERY.html Semir is always parading someone around the site. He's also always, always inflating the status of his "experts", some of the people in the link, I cannot find anything about other then on pyramid sites. Italian Dr Paolo De Bertolis... complete blank. German Mr Christo Makovec of World Wide Search... his site seems to be about promoting these same Bosnian Pyramids. I don't see anything online that references Mr Makovec other then Bosnian Pyramid sites. It makes you wonder.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted April 27, 2011 #1336 Share Posted April 27, 2011 It is still fun though to see Semir is still wearing his trademark hat... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyaneyed Posted April 27, 2011 #1337 Share Posted April 27, 2011 I'm sure at some point last year I was reading this same thread and there was someone here posting who was working on the site, posting photos, and expressing his frustrations/finds etc. Was that this thread? At 90 pages long now, I don't have the patience to trawl all the way back, but I'm curious if that guy is still posting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irna Posted April 27, 2011 #1338 Share Posted April 27, 2011 Irna, eh? The fact that you are promoting your own website on UM is great. Moderators be aware. I believe this is against the UM rules. Oh, and you don't believe that defaming someone with accusations of "facsistic" ideas is against the rules, do you? By the way, did you find this post of mine that "denies Bosnian statehood"? Did you read Dr. Nabil Swelim second report http://www.nabilswelim.com/downloads/vic_10.pdf ? Let me quote some interesting extracts: If nature creates a geological pyramid shape, why don’t we give it the proper descriptive term:pyramid hill? The arguments on this nomination at Visočica persist because of: [...] 2) wrong belief that pyramids are MANMADE The main subjects to understand the pyramid hill Visočica are geological At Visočica the calculated base is found to be rectangular but in fact there is no physical base for thisnatural structure. Field architecture begins in the wake of definite discoveries of manmade or humanintervention. If no traces are found then our pyramid hill becomes a geological case. This text was written by Dr. Swelim in 2010. Dr. Swelim is, according to Mr. Osmanagic, "One of the leading world experts on the pyramids". He used, apparently, to support Mr. Osmanagic's theories back in 2008, but it seems he has changed his mind: if he's still calling Visocica "pyramid hill", it is clear that it's only because of its shape, and that he doesn't think at all that it is a pyramid in the archaeological sense... Irna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helen of Annoy Posted April 27, 2011 #1339 Share Posted April 27, 2011 What I read years ago, was that several local people went and explored some of the tunnels with, or for, Semir, and several of them said there was no scribings on anything when they went in there. This was just after the first "symbol" was found. Numerous pics were taken of the single symbol. But all those pics disappeared off Pro-pyramid sites, when pics of the same boulder and some walls, showed up with more symbols on them. If you go after a boulder with a rock hammer and make lines it is easy to tell it was recent. The first pics all looked incredibly new. The lines were all light colored and had no debris in them. Latter pics showed the lines of the symbols as much darker in the lines and had debris on them. Like someone was trying to make them look older. The fact that the number and variety of the symbols seems to have increased with time, and the older pics showing less symbols disappearing off the Bosnian-pyramid sites, seem to me to point at the symbols being faked. Thanks, I don’t have time or patience to seriously dig in this, so I appreciate your summary. Though I’m recreational Bosnian pyramid supporter (mostly to spite politicians involved in the story) I must admit this doesn’t sound good. On the other hand, tunnels in Visočica are real and nothing extraordinary, a lot of hills in Bosnia have old (medieval or earlier) mining tunnels, not proper mines in modern sense of the word, and it would be surprising not to find any inscriptions inside. Contrary to popular belief, this part of the world had cultures and writings (proper and proto-writings) as far as 3000 years BC (Vučedol). So if there were no inscriptions found inside Visoko tunnels, it’s a matter of time when they will be found. I don't expect hieroglyphs, of course, but I do expect anything from Vučedol type of symbols, over old Slavic rune-like writing to something like Glagolitic (see my sig). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted April 27, 2011 #1340 Share Posted April 27, 2011 Thanks, I don’t have time or patience to seriously dig in this, so I appreciate your summary. Though I’m recreational Bosnian pyramid supporter (mostly to spite politicians involved in the story) I must admit this doesn’t sound good. On the other hand, tunnels in Visočica are real and nothing extraordinary, a lot of hills in Bosnia have old (medieval or earlier) mining tunnels, not proper mines in modern sense of the word, and it would be surprising not to find any inscriptions inside. Contrary to popular belief, this part of the world had cultures and writings (proper and proto-writings) as far as 3000 years BC (Vučedol). So if there were no inscriptions found inside Visoko tunnels, it’s a matter of time when they will be found. I don't expect hieroglyphs, of course, but I do expect anything from Vučedol type of symbols, over old Slavic rune-like writing to something like Glagolitic (see my sig). That is only if the tunnels are really that old. They have found carbon dated material that apparently is thousands of years old in the tunnels, but really that could have come from anywhere. They need a serious archeological site done in the tunnels to confirm how old they are. If they just keep hauling out the loose debris and dirt, they will never proove anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helen of Annoy Posted April 27, 2011 #1341 Share Posted April 27, 2011 That is only if the tunnels are really that old. They have found carbon dated material that apparently is thousands of years old in the tunnels, but really that could have come from anywhere. They need a serious archeological site done in the tunnels to confirm how old they are. If they just keep hauling out the loose debris and dirt, they will never proove anything. The tunnels are at least medieval, but could be as old as 3000 BC, because that Vučedol culture I keep harping about knew how to mine and work metals. Serious approach... absolutely, I agree. The problem is that serious money is needed for serious research. It would be also very helpful if politics could back off, which is, of course, impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
questionmark Posted April 27, 2011 #1342 Share Posted April 27, 2011 The tunnels are at least medieval, but could be as old as 3000 BC, because that Vučedol culture I keep harping about knew how to mine and work metals. Serious approach... absolutely, I agree. The problem is that serious money is needed for serious research. It would be also very helpful if politics could back off, which is, of course, impossible. I tend to disagree with the serious money part, what you need is a serious will, solid knowledge and serious dedication. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abramelin Posted April 27, 2011 #1343 Share Posted April 27, 2011 The tunnels are at least medieval, but could be as old as 3000 BC, because that Vučedol culture I keep harping about knew how to mine and work metals. Serious approach... absolutely, I agree. The problem is that serious money is needed for serious research. It would be also very helpful if politics could back off, which is, of course, impossible. Helen, that culture you talk about is an interesting topic on its own. I found some links: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vu%C4%8Dedol_culture http://www.iol.co.za/scitech/technology/oldest-european-calendar-deciphered-1.66747 http://www.kompas-travel.com/upoznaj-hrvatsku/arheologija_en.pdf http://www.cosy.sbg.ac.at/~zzspri/travels/regional_history/HistorySum.html http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:en0U6jbc6bIJ:hrcak.srce.hr/file/8594+Archaeologist+Aleksandar+Durman&hl=nl&gl=nl&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEEShPqI5dUYhpIjZ7Pe1Bp7VYd8eYO-0B2LcWfy2yDg_F4nkbWqj71ayv-Pas231CX4WPtD98-CDou--jCDUqvwk-KJZUKdgO2ySh5LZKlJge3EiGMAzbmRoakqo-E2iJlYXzfM1g&sig=AHIEtbT1qioLXrt9DLvHAM3IEQYrjKGhPQ . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helen of Annoy Posted April 27, 2011 #1344 Share Posted April 27, 2011 I tend to disagree with the serious money part, what you need is a serious will, solid knowledge and serious dedication. Sorry, I meant “serious money for my and Bosnian perception”. Will they have, dedication can be developed if there’s motivation, knowledge... yes, well, some professional approach wouldn’t hurt, though by strict mainstream science, there would never be any site there at all. Just funny shaped hill and folk legends. I’m slightly boring with that folk legends, but people usually invent stories based on actual events or inspired by places that are different in some way. In my own – no one said sane – opinion, legends are good guidance where to dig. Helen, that culture you talk about is an interesting topic on its own. I found some links: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vu%C4%8Dedol_culture http://www.iol.co.za/scitech/technology/oldest-european-calendar-deciphered-1.66747 http://www.kompas-travel.com/upoznaj-hrvatsku/arheologija_en.pdf http://www.cosy.sbg.ac.at/~zzspri/travels/regional_history/HistorySum.html http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:en0U6jbc6bIJ:hrcak.srce.hr/file/8594+Archaeologist+Aleksandar+Durman&hl=nl&gl=nl&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEEShPqI5dUYhpIjZ7Pe1Bp7VYd8eYO-0B2LcWfy2yDg_F4nkbWqj71ayv-Pas231CX4WPtD98-CDou--jCDUqvwk-KJZUKdgO2ySh5LZKlJge3EiGMAzbmRoakqo-E2iJlYXzfM1g&sig=AHIEtbT1qioLXrt9DLvHAM3IEQYrjKGhPQ . Good morning, kind sir, do I know you from somewhere? Kidding. Yes, quite interesting, especially since it’s so old. God knows what else sleeps under layers Pannonian mud, waiting to be dug out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abramelin Posted April 27, 2011 #1345 Share Posted April 27, 2011 (edited) Sorry, I meant “serious money for my and Bosnian perception”. Will they have, dedication can be developed if there’s motivation, knowledge... yes, well, some professional approach wouldn’t hurt, though by strict mainstream science, there would never be any site there at all. Just funny shaped hill and folk legends. I’m slightly boring with that folk legends, but people usually invent stories based on actual events or inspired by places that are different in some way. In my own – no one said sane – opinion, legends are good guidance where to dig. Good morning, kind sir, do I know you from somewhere? Kidding. Yes, quite interesting, especially since it’s so old. God knows what else sleeps under layers Pannonian mud, waiting to be dug out. Goodmorning? What, does a second sun shine on Croatia, and Croatia alone?? Yep, you know me from 'somewhere', and your fellow countryman, the only other Croat I know, is behind bars, lol. But if I am finally able to show him what I found, he will be even more proud of his country. +++ No, I must correct myself here: I know another Croat, X Marić. He was once a collegue of mine, and hated by one and all, lol. He was an ex-policeman,. and it showed... My friend, a Hungarian, pulled him at his neck over a machine, and wanted to give his lower jaw a different shape. But I prevented it (not because I liked this Marić guy, but because I liked the Hungarian guy, hahaha !!). . Edited April 27, 2011 by Abramelin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
questionmark Posted April 27, 2011 #1346 Share Posted April 27, 2011 Sorry, I meant "serious money for my and Bosnian perception". Will they have, dedication can be developed if there's motivation, knowledge... yes, well, some professional approach wouldn't hurt, though by strict mainstream science, there would never be any site there at all. Just funny shaped hill and folk legends. I'm slightly boring with that folk legends, but people usually invent stories based on actual events or inspired by places that are different in some way. In my own – no one said sane – opinion, legends are good guidance where to dig. May I suggest a standard work? How to observe in Archeology, W.M. Flinders Petrie et al. Can be downloaded in e-formats at Project Gutenberg for free. It is 80 years old but one of the few works projected to amateurs wanting to do something of value. A few dozen amateurs going after those precepts may come up with something that interests the pros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helen of Annoy Posted April 27, 2011 #1347 Share Posted April 27, 2011 Goodmorning? What, does a second sun shine on Croatia, and Croatia alone?? Yep, you know me from 'somewhere', and your fellow countryman, the only other Croat I know, is behind bars, lol. But if I am finally able to show him what I found, he will be even more proud of his country. +++ No, I must correct myself here: I know another Croat, X Maric. He was once a collegue of mine, and hated by one and all, lol. He was an ex-policeman,. and it showed... My friend, a Hungarian, pulled him at his neck over a machine, and wanted to give his lower jaw a different shape. But I prevented it (not because I liked this Maric guy, but because I like the Hungarian guy, hahaha !!). . Nah, I was thinking you woke up as a new man, so a good morning seemed appropriate... but apparently, I was mistaken May I suggest a standard work? How to observe in Archeology, W.M. Flinders Petrie et al. Can be downloaded in e-formats at Project Gutenberg for free. It is 80 years old but one of the few works projected to amateurs wanting to do something of value. A few dozen amateurs going after those precepts may come up with something that interests the pros. Thank you, sounds reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abramelin Posted April 27, 2011 #1348 Share Posted April 27, 2011 Nah, I was thinking you woke up as a new man, so a good morning seemed appropriate... but apparently, I was mistaken Everytime I wake up, I see the same guy in the mirror. Well, maybe it's just an illusion, heh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irna Posted April 27, 2011 #1349 Share Posted April 27, 2011 That is only if the tunnels are really that old. They have found carbon dated material that apparently is thousands of years old in the tunnels, but really that could have come from anywhere. They need a serious archeological site done in the tunnels to confirm how old they are. If they just keep hauling out the loose debris and dirt, they will never proove anything. I agree they need some serious archaeologists, and ones without any preconception. They also need a real geologist (there has not been a single geologist there for years), but I'm afraid they're not ready to hear what he would have to say, that may be the reason why they have so much difficulties to find one :-) Irna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted April 28, 2011 #1350 Share Posted April 28, 2011 I agree they need some serious archaeologists, and ones without any preconception. They also need a real geologist (there has not been a single geologist there for years), but I'm afraid they're not ready to hear what he would have to say, that may be the reason why they have so much difficulties to find one :-) Irna Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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