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Sherapy

The Positives of not being Religious

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hyperactive

What about something other than our universe, on the outside so to speak.

the most permiating of forces would be the base ones that other things are formed from. Also note that for things to be 'the way they are' at a fundamental level there is a dynamic equalibrium at play that utilizes all the forces, so there is not one that is any more important than any other.

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artymoon

the most permiating of forces would be the base ones that other things are formed from. Also note that for things to be 'the way they are' at a fundamental level there is a dynamic equalibrium at play that utilizes all the forces, so there is not one that is any more important than any other.

But how do you know this? :devils advocate

Edited by artymoon

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Sherapy

Hyper i am so glad to have it calrified that this "higher Power" or superior being or this higher authority are the same religous construct said anoter way, lol Namaste Sheri

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Yelekiah

i have only read sources

I wasn't aware that there were other sources. But I think people should read different sources just for kicks. I only brought up this Jesus thing in response to comparison with Greek and Roman mythology. Not really in response to the topic, just to let you know (unless you know this already).

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Sherapy

I wasn't aware that there were other sources. But I think people should read different sources just for kicks. I only brought up this Jesus thing in response to comparison with Greek and Roman mythology. Not really in response to the topic, just to let you know (unless you know this already).

I appreciate it I enjoy your perspective its very enlightening , post away yele :D Namaste Sheri

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Yelekiah

the most permiating of forces would be the base ones that other things are formed from. Also note that for things to be 'the way they are' at a fundamental level there is a dynamic equalibrium at play that utilizes all the forces, so there is not one that is any more important than any other.

I disagree. Gravity is only important when you have matter. :P

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hyperactive

and what if it turns out that gravity is just an illusion? see holographic theory

Edited by hyperactive

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Yelekiah

and what if it turns out that gravity is just an illusion? you don't need matter for gravity, but matter generates gravity

You could say time is an illusion, but not gravity. The universe would be destroyed without it. Matter bends space-time, and that bend in space-time is gravity. Well, now I'm thinking gravity, although the weakest force, would be a very important one, at least to humans anyway.

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hyperactive

actually, i can say that gravity may well be an illusion!

look into it, it is quite fascinating! part of the model includes that we are not in a 3d (+1d time_ universe at all but a "2d + time" universe. look into it, you should find it very fascinating.

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Yelekiah

actually, i can say that gravity may well be an illusion!

look into it, it is quite fascinating! part of the model includes that we are not in a 3d (+1d time_ universe at all but a "2d + time" universe. look into it, you should find it very fascinating.

Not more of an illusion than time, but I'll check it out. Onto positives of not being religious!

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Yelekiah

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/

^looool, omg, that title is hilarious. Not super-imperative to the subject but interesting stuff.

A lot of the positives, people have already mentioned. But would you feel less guilty if you had no religion? Is religion inspired by guilt?

In my opinion, it is.

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ShaunZero

what makes you think this?

why?

Why not?

Oh, and are you open to those with the same point of view as the person you quoted?

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ramster83

Yele i personally put little if any stock into the authenticity of the bible i have only read sources that strongly suggest those that twrote of jesus didn't know him,I also am leaning very heavily towards ther was no Jesus. I think whatever works for the person, namaste Sheri

Basically all serious scholars have no doubt in Jesus' existance...You dont know more than them Sheri. Why do you doubt Jesus' existance? When scholars of all faiths and paths are convinced that he indeed existed.

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Paranoid Android
Very poetic, but not entirely true. If you don't believe in any kind of religion then you are more likely to be hedonistic.

Or Nihilistic......

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Paranoid Android

Sorry for the long post, but rather than make a million posts addressing each comment, I thought I'd put them altogether and save space.

So here goes....

No risk of religious fanatacism.

There'd be other forms of fanatacism in its place. Ever seen a soccer riot? People die, property damaged, lives wrecked - all for a sports match.

by following something that tells you who you should be and how to act, and not to question you are putting your selves in to the position to be stereo typed...

Christians are continually encouraged to ask questions. The fact that some don't is a different point altogether.

But when it comes to eating Christ in a chip of stale bread, Praying with phrases that sound like magical spells, Confessing personal information to someone you don't even know, etc etc, The list goes on. All for what?

No offense, but you have a very small view of religion. Not only do you not even think about other religious worldviews other than Christian, you label all Christians under the heading of "Catholic".

No troubles at all with faith, with spirituality. Gives people peace. Gives me peace to have faith in my friends and in myself. To feel connected to the world, if not to a god with no visible face, is satisfying and makes me feel whole. I don't need to sit in a church on Sundays to feel it. I can sit in a pub with my friends on Saturday night and get the same results.

Good point :tu:

I appreciate all the response I definitly want to here PA, 101, turtle, Zero, everybody this is very interesting each post. Namaste Sheri

Is it urgent? I'm sort of tired and I've only got time to reply to this thread tonight. I'll get back to you in a day or two, ok.

Stem cell research, for example, could be used in the future to save countless lives...but religious groups are trying everything they can to stop it being used.

Sorry to break it to you, but there are non-Christians also against stem-cell research :yes:

but when someone else commits a "sin" in your eyes, you scold them or think less of them for it.

And you don't judge anyone? "That serial killer. What a monster/misguided fool/mentally unstable character". Though you are right sometimes. There are some very judgmental Christians. I can only speak for myself when I say I try not to do so.

How true could the books of the bible (and other texts) actually be? Considering the tales would have passed down orally, the truth would get watered down with the telling because different people will tell the same story different ways, emphasising what they feel needs the emphasis. By the time all this stuff got written down, who knows how much time had really passed, if whole events were lost in the telling or moved around to make a story sound more exciting, or, frankly, just made up for kicks? We don't know. We don't know how accurate transcribers were. Entire sections could have been misinterpreted, or key words mispelled, and the mistakes would be copied the next time, and the next time and the next time... Believers have to believe the book, because the book is all there is.

This isn't really the thread for me to bring this up, but [1] Oral tradition isn't like Chinese Whispers. They don't hear something once and then have to remember it. It is ingrained in them from birth. [2] (and more importantly) your theory on mistakes holds no historical accuracy. The oldest manuscripts of the Bible come from the Dead Sea Scrolls and match almost identically with other, more recent manuscripts.

Religion is built from childhood to be The Only Truth until, even in maturity, you stand there wondering just how much of your belief system is built by you, yourself, and how much of it hangs on from years of Catholic school.

Hmm. And those people who never went to Catholic School? Or even knew of a character named Jesus untl they were adults. Was it ingrained to them too?

Thus endeth my rant.

Regards, PA

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Ha Ha

I would think that the advantage of being in the "believer" group is that you are secure in your beliefs and the advantage of being in the "non-believer" group are exactly the same. The disadvantages are, of course, that regardless of which group your're in, there is always someone in the opposite group who is willing to harass you because of your beliefs!

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luckycanucky

if you look closely you may find quite the opposite is true for a great deal of people. Many have put no, or next to no, thought into what they beleive at all. It is a product of social conditioning that they have never questioned.

Okay, so I readjust my point. The builders of the belief structure have the power to make us believe whatever they want us to believe. Sure, some people are sure enough of themselves to make their own choices and be selective and question what they're told. I'd say these are the people who don't see religion as truth, are willing to look at alternatives and other paths.

Religion works as a belief structure because of social conditioning. That's true. So does racism, stereotypes and prejudice. Unt you reach a point in your life when you say, hey, wait a minute...

Assuming you ever do reach a point in your life when you say, hey, wait a minute...

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luckycanucky

Lucky great posts, I would like to ask you have you outgrown the Catholic construct or are you transcending it< Catholism was decided for me by my parents, when i relizesd i had a choice i rejected it. very early I was fortunate to have a mother that harboured dreams of being a feminist she nurtured those aspirations by allowing me to transfer to public school. And you at what point did it become nonsense?? Namaste Sheri

I hope I'm transcending it. I can't help but hold onto some of the ideas I grew up with, though. Stealing's still wrong, lying, cheating, killing, etc. Whether god says so or law or just basic respect for the individual. I assume my parents built my conscience for me. If I feel guilt over anything, it's that my folks may find out, not that God is going to send me to hell for it.

8 years of catholic school, never baptised. I asked my folks about it once. They told me they'd gone to the Father of the church and asked if it was necessary. They say that he said no. I was fitting in, doing well, making friends and he wasn't going to force me to become a "true" catholic. I presume he was leaving it up to me to decide later if I wanted to get communion and confirmation and all that. I passed on it. Seemed weird to be the only girl in her pew while everyone got up for the bread, though, but it didn't make me feel like I needed to join their club or anything.

Throughout school I gravitated to friends who were involved in church of all sorts, not because of the church aspect itself, but because they were good people. They encouraged me to go to Youth group because it was fun on Friday nights but they didn't force conversion to their faith or anything.

I respect the need people feel they have for religion as organized by society. There's a real draw to feel like you're part of a group and a church has all kinds of levels of involvement for everyone. But again, times change. Church isn't the only social activity available in communities anymore. There are sports and academic clubs and book clubs and art things and 4-H and you name it, there's a club for it. Using church as a connection to one's community isn't as vital as it used to be.

I don't like to say it's nonsense. If church is where you find your heart and soul's desires, well, who am I to say you're mistaken? Just because I've chosen another path to enlightenment doesn't make yours wrong. It's just wrong for me. It's the forcing, the witnessing, the dragging of people into a belief system that irritates me.

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luckycanucky

A lot of the positives, people have already mentioned. But would you feel less guilty if you had no religion? Is religion inspired by guilt?

In my opinion, it is.

Religion as positive - the only thing I can come up with is unified group cohesion. It's nice to know everyone thinks and believes just the same as you do. It's safe and makes everything you know and believe valid because everyone in your group thinks like you do.

I can also see the pitfalls of thinking like that, on account of the one or few of your group who start to question what they're told. Makes people twitchy to think there may be another way to think about things...

But anyway, guilt as religous inspiration. I can't think of anything off hand.. oh wait. Yeah I can. Guilt about sexual desire kept monks/priests in line... Seven deadly sins filled with reasons to feel guilty about something. Eat too much, sleep too much, etc. So yeah, I guess I can agree with you on that one. =)

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rose_ashes

first of all, i cannot see why christians still think that all of the rules in the bible are applicable to today's society. think about it: back in biblical days, teenagers were married as early as 12 or 13 years of age, so naturally there would be no sex-drive before then... but nowadays, we don't get married until nearly a decade later. people in biblical times were married much earlier, making those "no sex before marriage" rules inapplicable to those of our current socety.

and one must truly wonder what would make someone want to choose to follow a religion that limits their personal freedoms so much. the church asks you for ten percent of your income (why does god need money anyways? i don't want to spend my income on new church pews when the ones they have are perfectly fine) they tell you not to have sex before marriage (though human instinct says otherwise- why would god have made us with that instinct if he didn't want us to act on it? does he think rabbits are sinful because they are not legally married when they reproduce?) they say that you need to go to church on sunday (but why? why do you need a church to educate you in your beliefs? i thought it was a matter of personal education and decision?) and so many other things.

oftentimes, people that are not raised being christian who do become christian later on in life are those that are lost or feel like they have no purpose in life. and so the religious groups draw them in and make them feel like trying to impose christianity upon others, following the rules, and giving all of their money to the church are their sole reasons for being alive. Instead, those people should be allowed to learn from their mistakes and should be given the chance to make something of themselves instead of being told that without god they are worthless. it's unfair to them.

something that truly irritates me is when people give god the credit for EVERYTHING that happens that's good and blame the devil for everything that's bad. "it wasn't my fault- it was the sin within me. it was satan's fault". the horrible things in this world are not works of 'satan'. they are works of PEOPLE. quit using satan as your scapegoat and take responsibility for your own actions.

as someone mentioned earlier, it is much easier to do something bad knowing that god will forgive you and everything will be a-okay than it is to do something knowing that you'll have to live with the guilt of doing it and the only person that can grant you forgiveness happens to be yourself.

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Tornado

Well said, Rose Ashes.

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AdNauseamSuiGeneris

if he is actually a real person there is great debate on that

Where is there debate on this? The Romans kept extensive records of thier punishments, and Jesus is well documented on that.

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Sherapy

The jesus of the "Bible" IMO doesn't exist, , the understanding of Jesus as a Martyr as a Sacrafice IMO would be central to controlling a mass group of peoples freedom to beleive what they want, I think the Bible Jesus serves as a reminder if you want tot belive differently or question this will be your fate, Also the whole Jesus thing promotes alot of guilt which is a construct of mankind. Ramster I think the key point you made is these Scholars are men of GREAT FAITH, meaning they are writing about what they beleive in to begin with, There have been so many threads started on the subject how the bible is not literal translation. This is only my opinion its not anything more than that. Namaste Sheri

Lucky I always wondered why there needs to be rules such as not killing others, I'm a parent i have never once had to say now don't kill anyone today, don't steal today although i don't raise my kids in the ways of the bible that just may be the difference.

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hyperactive
Lucky I always wondered why there needs to be rules such as not killing others,

that should be obvious. man the social animal vs man the individual. even as the social animal, man has needed to sort out the pecking order and man early on discovered the safest way to maintain position is to eliminate competition (drive off or kill). Now if you want to have a complex society develop then you need to ensure certian basic 'laws' of interaction. There needs to be stability for the individual to allow him to specialize. Without specialization society would not have moved beyond basic loose groupings formed out of hardship (and dispersed thereafter). So, as you can see, the creation of rules and stability is a necessary foundation for the society you now have where you don't think about killing people.

While religion (organized, spiritual varieties) are now outmoded and rapidly diminishing, you can not discredit the important roles they have played historically (remember to consider the peoples they served as well!)

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Sherapy

Hyper that avatar is nasty :ph34r: is it the predator from alien.?so you are saying inherently man strives to kill each other??? nanamste sheri

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