There is no god!

[saucy]

Ah, Wong my friend, you have missed a year and a half of proof that I have have shared since I came to this forum. I'll tell you something about me. I used to believe like you do. "There's no God. You can't prove it to me either." That's called having a closed mind. Nobody was ever going to convince me that He exists. Then there came a time in my life when I started have trouble and my closed mind turned into an open mind. I started looking for God. God said in the bible that, "If you seek me, you'll find me if you seek me with all of your heart." I was seeking God, to see if He really existed and I found Him. Not only did I find Him personally, but I studied the scriptures. I found beyond a doubt the existance of God in the scriptures. See, people with a closed mind will never find God. Never. Open your mind a bit. I'm not asking you to believe, but open your mind that God might exist and that you're looking to see if He does. If you want a quick thrill, look at bible prophecy. It's amazing.

[Mr Supertypo]

WTF? americans are using evoultion as religion? so if I move to USA and behave bad I will in my next life be reborn as a monkey???   

773694[/snapback]

I don't think so. He said that Evolution maybe used in North American societies as how religion was used in Ancient Societies...and of one reason he stated, to control the masses.

yes I do belive ISTITUTIONALIZED religions....are made to keep people in line.

If you dont do as I say (said the farao..or the pope) god will be angry!!!

Religion is about politics...and nothing else.

773701[/snapback]

In your opinion...if you check the dictionary, religion is the devotion and worship of a higher entity or ideal. You think religion is all about politics because it got itself involved in political races and reforms to provide a moral reason why to believe this politician or that politician. Today, you can find religion in some political speeches, but religion is discouraged to fuse with any government organizations or actions...its mostly about telling you how to worship a God.

773927[/snapback]

Hailo...of course is that my opinion.

I do strongely belive all istitutionalised religion are just a political instrument..and they DO politics like it or not and I dont give a damn what the dictionary says!!!

Dont you belive me? look on the battle of some cristians against evolution or how Islam interact in policy just to name few.

[JennRose]

Even shakespeare is quoted as saying, "I think, there for I am".

773617[/snapback]

This is completely, 100% off topic, but I just wanted to clarify. It was Rene Decartes who said that. Cogito, ergo sum.

Ok, sorry for the interruption, back to real discussion in progress.

[Mr Supertypo]

Even shakespeare is quoted as saying, "I think, there for I am". As long as you keep telling your self that there is no possible proof, you will never see it. You have been programmed from day one by all popular media that truth is relative. You have been lied to about how many senses a person has. You want to talk about control, about REAL control over the masses? You better begin to understand what the Masons and the Illuminati have been doing for the past 200 years!

[

773617[/snapback]

cogito, ergo sum!

wasnt that rené Descartes?

[Mr Supertypo]

Even shakespeare is quoted as saying, "I think, there for I am".

773617[/snapback]

This is completely, 100% off topic, but I just wanted to clarify. It was Rene Decartes who said that. Cogito, ergo sum.

Ok, sorry for the interruption, back to real discussion in progress.

773994[/snapback]

lol we wrote the same

[aero_360]

Ok, before any of you religious people come in here and start saying how I'm going to go to hell, and turned into salt or whatever, read this WHOLE thing.

(Some of the things I say here may have been posted in replies to other topics)

I believe that God is completely made up. Throughout many thousands of years and civilizations all over the globe, societies have had a God or gods. This is because they have no better explanation for misunderstood things. "There was an earthquake!!! God is angry!" "Our crops grew tall this year!!! God is pleased!" "This lady woke up from a coma!!! It's a miracle, God saved her!" And so with the common belief that god controls everything we have accepted his rule and everything he does is right. "My grandma dies!!! God did that for a reason!" and so on.

The reason that civilization made God or gods was to keep everyone in line. So many more people would resist stealing and murdering if they thought they would go to hell if they did so. Everyone would be a better person if they thought they would go to heaven for it. God was created to help people stick together and prosper. And I don't think it was a bad thing! Society might not have advanced past what middle eastern poor people have now if they didn't make it, so it was a great idea to conjure that illusion up!

And isn't it convenient that there is no way of proving any of this stuff. Is there a heaven, only the dead know. Is there a god, same answer. How do I know there is a God? You just have to believe....... That last remark is what really bugs me about religion. You just have to believe. What are we believing in? are we believing the priest that there is a God? How does HE know?? He believed a different priest and here is how the telephone game starts. You start out saying "oh Ted has a funny face", and it ends up as "Green books taste like toe jam!" There is no credibility. Religion is worse! It has gone on for thousands of years!

The ancient greeks would have sworn on their lives that there were really manticores, cyclopses and chimeras, but no we know they don't exist. And the same thing happens with christians and angels. maybe they don't see them as frequently, but they believe. If there really is a god, then the bibles MUST be false. This is a quote I got off of comedy central (tv) and i think it is true while funny. I'm not sure it is really a quote though because I don't remember it word for word. "The bible says God doesn't want me to do my sister, but it also says that adam and eve created all humanity and if they had kids, there would be no one else for them to do! Someone had to bang their sister."

I might have forgotten some stuff, but I am tired and it's like midnight here so if you Christians want to attack me now, go ahead, I'm sure there is plenty of stuff in there for you to find holes in, but once you point them out to me, I WILL fill them in.

773492[/snapback]

Even though gods were made up, what about Jesus? He did a bunch of good things and everything, and he even taught about God, and he rose from the dead. That's why people started believing in God, they didn't make it up. Christianity wasn't made up, it was based on historical things.

[bacca]

I'd say that i have to agree with the first post....What I find funny is how the God followers here so quickly jumped on him about it. If you truly feel that nothing he said is true or possibly true then why get so upset about it? or is it that part of you goes oh um what if? and then you have to do anything you can to discredit the idea for fear of it being true and therefore ruining the things that you have put so much time and energy into trying to make true before?

[Putte]

What I find funny is how the God followers here so quickly jumped on him about it.

774016[/snapback]

I'm no "God follower", as you put it. But I still questioned him because I thought the logic he used to reach his conclusion was way off. Sure, he might be right, but he's not proving anything with that.

For the record, I'd do the same with someone "proving" that God exists, using the same type of arguments

[bacca]

What I find funny is how the God followers here so quickly jumped on him about it.

774016[/snapback]

I'm no "God follower", as you put it. But I still questioned him because I thought the logic he used to reach his conclusion was way off. Sure, he might be right, but he's not proving anything with that.

For the record, I'd do the same with someone "proving" that God exists, using the same type of arguments

774018[/snapback]

Where exactly is his logic off?

[Mr Supertypo]

Even though gods were made up, what about Jesus?  He did a bunch of good things and everything, and he even taught about God, and he rose from the dead.  That's why people started believing in God, they  didn't make it up.  Christianity wasn't made up, it was based on historical things.

774014[/snapback]

Jesus is not the first..there have been many before him.

Cristianity after all is a mix of ancient belief in the mediterrean nothing more.

After all teh cristianity as we know today is it quite modern.

About historical facts...well that's a wery depatable!

[+Paranoid Android]

WongFeiHung, although this was a nice attempt at getting people to listen to reason, it was entirely fruitless. The chances of getting a point across to people who so clearly have their minds concluded is slim if anything.

773642[/snapback]

Oh no, the point is taken. No worries with that. The conclusions we come to just happen to be different than yours. They disagree with what you believe and so therefore it is (to you) a flawed conclusion.

All the best,

[_hAiLO_]

Hailo...of course is that my opinion.

I do strongely belive all istitutionalised religion are just a political instrument..and they DO politics like it or not and I dont give a damn what the dictionary says!!!

Dont you belive me? look on the battle of some cristians against evolution or how Islam interact in policy just to name few.

773991[/snapback]

The Muslims who participate in Islamic Organizations aren't under government control like the U.S. Government. The Islam Extremists who so declared 'Jihad' agaisnt Christians, I don't think have fused with their governments...they just bought and sold weaponry with them.

Some Chrstians are actually discouraging a so called 'battle' against Evolution. The Christians who do go against Evolution are Christian Conservatives and Extremists and do not abide by the true morals of both Common Sense and Christian Morals. I do not support them at all...

[Mr Supertypo]

Hailo...of course is that my opinion.

I do strongely belive all istitutionalised religion are just a political instrument..and they DO politics like it or not and I dont give a damn what the dictionary says!!!

Dont you belive me? look on the battle of some cristians against evolution or how Islam interact in policy just to name few.

773991[/snapback]

The Muslims who participate in Islamic Organizations aren't under government control like the U.S. Government. The Islam Extremists who so declared 'Jihad' agaisnt Christians, I don't think have fused with their governments...they just bought and sold weaponry with them.

newsflash* u dont need to be under governmental control to do politics!

Some Chrstians are actually discouraging a so called 'battle' against Evolution. The Christians who do go against Evolution are Christian Conservatives and Extremists and do not abide by the true morals of both Common Sense and Christian Morals. I do not support them at all...

774027[/snapback]

that's also political involment....I give u a example :I use the bible to influence the mass in to my religious goal!!!

edit : forgot to write few words!!!

Edited August 5, 2005 by Lux Felix

[bacca]

Hailo...of course is that my opinion.

I do strongely belive all istitutionalised religion are just a political instrument..and they DO politics like it or not and I dont give a damn what the dictionary says!!!

Dont you belive me? look on the battle of some cristians against evolution or how Islam interact in policy just to name few.

773991[/snapback]

The Muslims who participate in Islamic Organizations aren't under government control like the U.S. Government. The Islam Extremists who so declared 'Jihad' agaisnt Christians, I don't think have fused with their governments...they just bought and sold weaponry with them.

Some Chrstians are actually discouraging a so called 'battle' against Evolution. The Christians who do go against Evolution are Christian Conservatives and Extremists and do not abide by the true morals of both Common Sense and Christian Morals. I do not support them at all...

774027[/snapback]

I have to agree with his statments hailo.....In the case of islam anyway, it is religious beliefst that cause women to cover their faces etc. And it is Christian thinking that makes people think that creationism should now be taught in public schools, or the banning of gay marriage or abortion. All of those are based from the book and the christions/religious teachings...

[aero_360]

Even though gods were made up, what about Jesus?  He did a bunch of good things and everything, and he even taught about God, and he rose from the dead.  That's why people started believing in God, they  didn't make it up.  Christianity wasn't made up, it was based on historical things.

774014[/snapback]

Jesus is not the first..there have been many before him.

Cristianity after all is a mix of ancient belief in the mediterrean nothing more.

After all teh cristianity as we know today is it quite modern.

About historical facts...well that's a wery depatable!

774023[/snapback]

All the many before him believed in like 10 gods. I thought that Jesus was who first taught the idea of only one God. BTW, I never said historical facts, per say. I leave that open for you to decide.

[NJC]

Ok, before any of you religious people come in here and start saying how I'm going to go to hell, and turned into salt or whatever, read this WHOLE thing.

(Some of the things I say here may have been posted in replies to other topics)

I believe that God is completely made up. Throughout many thousands of years and civilizations all over the globe, societies have had a God or gods. This is because they have no better explanation for misunderstood things. "There was an earthquake!!! God is angry!" "Our crops grew tall this year!!! God is pleased!" "This lady woke up from a coma!!! It's a miracle, God saved her!" And so with the common belief that god controls everything we have accepted his rule and everything he does is right. "My grandma dies!!! God did that for a reason!" and so on.

The reason that civilization made God or gods was to keep everyone in line. So many more people would resist stealing and murdering if they thought they would go to hell if they did so. Everyone would be a better person if they thought they would go to heaven for it. God was created to help people stick together and prosper. And I don't think it was a bad thing! Society might not have advanced past what middle eastern poor people have now if they didn't make it, so it was a great idea to conjure that illusion up!

And isn't it convenient that there is no way of proving any of this stuff. Is there a heaven, only the dead know. Is there a god, same answer. How do I know there is a God? You just have to believe....... That last remark is what really bugs me about religion. You just have to believe. What are we believing in? are we believing the priest that there is a God? How does HE know?? He believed a different priest and here is how the telephone game starts. You start out saying "oh Ted has a funny face", and it ends up as "Green books taste like toe jam!" There is no credibility. Religion is worse! It has gone on for thousands of years!

The ancient greeks would have sworn on their lives that there were really manticores, cyclopses and chimeras, but no we know they don't exist. And the same thing happens with christians and angels. maybe they don't see them as frequently, but they believe. If there really is a god, then the bibles MUST be false. This is a quote I got off of comedy central (tv) and i think it is true while funny. I'm not sure it is really a quote though because I don't remember it word for word. "The bible says God doesn't want me to do my sister, but it also says that adam and eve created all humanity and if they had kids, there would be no one else for them to do! Someone had to bang their sister."

I might have forgotten some stuff, but I am tired and it's like midnight here so if you Christians want to attack me now, go ahead, I'm sure there is plenty of stuff in there for you to find holes in, but once you point them out to me, I WILL fill them in.

773492[/snapback]

booooooo god is real...you believe that ******* from comedy central god judge people for what they really are good or evil.Without god would jesus exist?i can't belive you even post this

[Mr Supertypo]

Even though gods were made up, what about Jesus?  He did a bunch of good things and everything, and he even taught about God, and he rose from the dead.  That's why people started believing in God, they  didn't make it up.  Christianity wasn't made up, it was based on historical things.

774014[/snapback]

Jesus is not the first..there have been many before him.

Cristianity after all is a mix of ancient belief in the mediterrean nothing more.

After all teh cristianity as we know today is it quite modern.

About historical facts...well that's a wery depatable!

774023[/snapback]

All the many before him believed in like 10 gods. I thought that Jesus was who first taught the idea of only one God. BTW, I never said historical facts, per say. I leave that open for you to decide.

774036[/snapback]

wrong...you forget Moses, Abhram they also teached there were only one god.

We can also include farao Akhenaton.

But at the wery beginning the jew were not monoteist's (only one god) but monolatric (there is many gods...but I worship one).

ps

why is that bad to have 10 gods?

[+Paranoid Android]

It disgusts me that many religious people have been brainwashed into this sad ideal that "only religious people can be good" or "only through religion can you be a good person." Strikes me as being very ignorant.

773746[/snapback]

Christianity isn't about being good. Rather the opposite. Christianity is about acknowledging ones own sinfulness. In effect we are saying "religious people, indeed any people at all, cannot be good - there is no one who is good!"

Call that brainwashing if you will........

[Putte]

Where exactly is his logic off?

774022[/snapback]

He explained why the religions could have been created by man. But just because something COULD have happened, doesn't mean that it's a fact.

I COULD have been in Argentina yesterday, to celebrate my friend's birthday. That doesn't mean I was.

Get my point?

Edited a bit for clarity.

Edited August 5, 2005 by Putte

[+Paranoid Android]

Besides, wasn't it Jesus who said Believe, and you shall move the mountains (paraphrased)? Power of belief is extraordinary. There is empirical evidence to this in form of many perceptive illusions.

773754[/snapback]

Sorry - the passage you refer to is out of context. Don't worry though. It's a common mistake. Even many Chirstians get it wrong with this one. So I forgive you.

All the best,

[Pseudomorph]

Besides, wasn't it Jesus who said Believe, and you shall move the mountains (paraphrased)? Power of belief is extraordinary. There is empirical evidence to this in form of many perceptive illusions.

773754[/snapback]

Sorry - the passage you refer to is out of context. Don't worry though. It's a common mistake. Even many Chirstians get it wrong with this one. So I forgive you.

All the best,

774053[/snapback]

And what is the proper context, then?

[bacca]

Where exactly is his logic off?

774022[/snapback]

He explained why the religions could have been created by man. But just because something COULD have happened, doesn't mean that it's a fact.

I COULD have been in Argentina yesterday, to celebrate my friend's birthday. That doesn't mean I was.

Get my point?

Edited a bit for clarity.

774044[/snapback]

yet christians follow that book because? I'm sorry because there COULD have been a man 2000 years ago who was a nice guy who liked to be worshiped and claimed that his real father was some invisible god in the sky....perhaps he just needed some prozac? His logic is fine, the idea that people would kill or die for something that there is NO proof of that there is NO logical explanation for is illogical.....And if someone could give me an explanation for why they would believe in that, other then the book told me he exists or how else do you explain a random cut on my hand or i had a vision when i was sleeping etc. For someone to give a good reason then maybe I wouldn't be quite so harsh but there is no logic behind religion just peoples need for explanations to unknowns and as I have said before, it's nice to have someone or something to blame other then yourself

[+Paranoid Android]

I'd say that i have to agree with the first post....What I find funny is how the God followers here so quickly jumped on him about it. If you truly feel that nothing he said is true or possibly true then why get so upset about it? or is it that part of you goes oh um what if? and then you have to do anything you can to discredit the idea for fear of it being true and therefore ruining the things that you have put so much time and energy into trying to make true before?

774016[/snapback]

I don't know about you, but of the posts I've read so far, there has been no "juming" happening, as you put it. No one is really upset either. I think you're just grasping for reasons to swipe at a belief structure you disagree with

All the best,

[Putte]

bacca, the fact that some people choose to die for their religion doesn't prove it true either. Why people are following it is not what is being discussed. What is being discussed is whether or not God does not exist, based on the initial poster's reasoning. So what if people explain some things with divine intervention? That doesn't prove God any less true.

I fail to see what you actually said, other than a lot of upset babbling that isn't related to the topic. Why get so upset? Why not try and see the other side as well, then make a judgement on the actual topic at hand?

[+Paranoid Android]

Besides, wasn't it Jesus who said Believe, and you shall move the mountains (paraphrased)? Power of belief is extraordinary. There is empirical evidence to this in form of many perceptive illusions.

773754[/snapback]

Sorry - the passage you refer to is out of context. Don't worry though. It's a common mistake. Even many Chirstians get it wrong with this one. So I forgive you.

All the best,

774053[/snapback]

And what is the proper context, then?

774058[/snapback]

The surrounding passages speak of the end times. According to Old Testament prophecy, one of the signs of the end times is the Mount of Olives will be cloven in two and move to create a valley between the two halves.

Now - no prizes to guess where Jesus was when he said "Faith the size of a mustard seed and you can move mountains". That's right, at the Mount of Olives!!! Remember, most of those listening to Jesus would be Jewish and know by heart all the prophecies.

In other words, with even the smallest measure of faith, we can be absolutely certain and sure that the end times prophecied will occur.