There is no god!

[benazir]

Welcome Benazir to the UM forum.

I am not sure of what you are trying to say with that post.

Thank You! I was having a technical difficulty for a moment. Sorry.-B

[Bluefinger]

Even when the knowledge might benefit you in your belief in the Christian God?

Ignorance is bliss, but knowledge is power and it will set you free.

Yes, because its something I'm not comfortable getting involved with.

Knowledge is power, but I don't like those who are in power too much these days. The act of decieving those who don't know any better is poor responsibility of power. The muslims are being fooled and America is being fooled. The clerics pay money to families if their fathers or children go out and blow someone up along with themselves. They say this is for the will of allah, but its really for more power. America is being fooled by gas prices, in my opinion. Bad things happen, wars and hurricanes. You mean to tell me the U.S. government wasn't prepared for those kind of circumstances. We knew there was oil in Iraq and we knew Hurricanes hit the Gulf of Mexico. So why are the prices so high? And then they lower the prices by say thirty cents and everybody is happy again, paying $30.00 for a tank of gas instead of $35.00. I bet the oil companies are making quite a lot of money, I wonder who is in charge??? Boy, were we fooled. I guess that goes with the everyday life of the common man.

God bless

[fallingalien]

Ok, before any of you religious people come in here and start saying how I'm going to go to hell, and turned into salt or whatever, read this WHOLE thing.

(Some of the things I say here may have been posted in replies to other topics)

I believe that God is completely made up. Throughout many thousands of years and civilizations all over the globe, societies have had a God or gods. This is because they have no better explanation for misunderstood things. "There was an earthquake!!! God is angry!" "Our crops grew tall this year!!! God is pleased!" "This lady woke up from a coma!!! It's a miracle, God saved her!" And so with the common belief that god controls everything we have accepted his rule and everything he does is right. "My grandma dies!!! God did that for a reason!" and so on.

The reason that civilization made God or gods was to keep everyone in line. So many more people would resist stealing and murdering if they thought they would go to hell if they did so. Everyone would be a better person if they thought they would go to heaven for it. God was created to help people stick together and prosper. And I don't think it was a bad thing! Society might not have advanced past what middle eastern poor people have now if they didn't make it, so it was a great idea to conjure that illusion up!

And isn't it convenient that there is no way of proving any of this stuff. Is there a heaven, only the dead know. Is there a god, same answer. How do I know there is a God? You just have to believe....... That last remark is what really bugs me about religion. You just have to believe. What are we believing in? are we believing the priest that there is a God? How does HE know?? He believed a different priest and here is how the telephone game starts. You start out saying "oh Ted has a funny face", and it ends up as "Green books taste like toe jam!" There is no credibility. Religion is worse! It has gone on for thousands of years!

The ancient greeks would have sworn on their lives that there were really manticores, cyclopses and chimeras, but no we know they don't exist. And the same thing happens with christians and angels. maybe they don't see them as frequently, but they believe. If there really is a god, then the bibles MUST be false. This is a quote I got off of comedy central (tv) and i think it is true while funny. I'm not sure it is really a quote though because I don't remember it word for word. "The bible says God doesn't want me to do my sister, but it also says that adam and eve created all humanity and if they had kids, there would be no one else for them to do! Someone had to bang their sister."

I might have forgotten some stuff, but I am tired and it's like midnight here so if you Christians want to attack me now, go ahead, I'm sure there is plenty of stuff in there for you to find holes in, but once you point them out to me, I WILL fill them in.

Right when you started you were wrong, when have you heard someone say "God is mad he made a earthquake"? Never and if someone did that means they're pretty stupid unless God warned the place and then a earthquake happened.

Misunderstanding, and understanding are two different things, you are misunderstanding God, Scientists most of the time guess, or say they're not sure.

We aren't greeks, We don't party if the crops are big and healthy. that's what they did, and no Greek God ever came down and died on a cross, most false Gods are shapes of stars in the sky, that's how we know they're fake.

Think about adam and eve this way,

you crack a egg, yolk comes out right? well, do that backwards, yolk goes in when the shell is crack, makes no sense.

Now, the Law about not having children with family happened AFTER Adam and Eve, and adam and eve were pure when they were created they weren't like us, they were made from God himself, well Adam was and eve was created from adam.

you can't take a law from the future and bring it backwards, the only hope of them mankind living was if they had children with family.

NOW, the telephone,

Religion was taken serious until the 1900s, it just got worse, WE get our Bible from the original Bible that was written by VERY Holy men of God, before, and after Jesus's time. it isn't changeed ata ll.

[zandore]

Even when the knowledge might benefit you in your belief in the Christian God?

Ignorance is bliss, but knowledge is power and it will set you free.

Yes, because its something I'm not comfortable getting involved with.

Knowledge is power, but I don't like those who are in power too much these days. The act of decieving those who don't know any better is poor responsibility of power. The muslims are being fooled and America is being fooled. The clerics pay money to families if their fathers or children go out and blow someone up along with themselves. They say this is for the will of allah, but its really for more power. America is being fooled by gas prices, in my opinion. Bad things happen, wars and hurricanes. You mean to tell me the U.S. government wasn't prepared for those kind of circumstances. We knew there was oil in Iraq and we knew Hurricanes hit the Gulf of Mexico. So why are the prices so high? And then they lower the prices by say thirty cents and everybody is happy again, paying $30.00 for a tank of gas instead of $35.00. I bet the oil companies are making quite a lot of money, I wonder who is in charge??? Boy, were we fooled. I guess that goes with the everyday life of the common man.

God bless

Then you can never be found....I feel sad for you.

Edited November 18, 2005 by zandore

[mako]

WE get our Bible from the original Bible that was written by VERY Holy men of God

You seriously need to study the history of your bible, the bible you study is based on a very poor translation of the Greek that is a translation of the Hebrew. Your bible was originally written by YHWHist priests either while in the Babylonian Exile or after the return from the Exile. Moses did not write any of the books of the OT...Matthew, Mark, Luke and John were probably not the authors of the gospels, Daniel is an pseudepigrapha, etc. It was not inspired Holy men that wrote your bible, but men desperately trying to please the Persian King in order to have a modicum of freedom.

[hyperactive]

Maybe you're right, maybe I got steamed. What if I told you that you should stop being athiest because it seems that your belief has holes in it, wouldn't you take that as an advance on ones position of belief. In this forum we are all free to stand on whatever side of belief as we want without the pressure to change because of our posts.

I apologize for getting steamed, its just that I am so used to people taking gut shots at my position of belief that anytime some tells me that, "perhaps I should drop Christianity," I can get a little edgy. That is borderline for me, because its not saying that Christianity has flaws, its saying you should drop it because it has flaws. I saw no error in my beliefs and hope I have clarified my position.

As far as respect goes, you have mine. So that you know where I stand on respect, when a man starts treating other men with less respect than is expected of any man; out of the prideness of his heart, that man is less than a man to me. I don't think you would care, but the only way to get respect is to give it.

again I apologize for the fireworks, it was a little out of season. Just please watch it when it comes to telling me what I should maybe do with my religion. I know what I should do and I do. I stand by my God through everything, even death.

God bless

blue.

On challenging me: fire away! I welcome anything anybody has to throw at me. For me, if it can not withstand scrutiny, how strong is it? (but be certian you know what my perspective is first. it is a little more complicated than saying just "atheist").

On respect: i understand your perspective. for me, respect is something you recieve as a product of your efforts. However, there is also a basic level of respect granted to everything for just being "what it is".

The limitations of the forum allow for misunderstandings to occur rather easily. I never mean anything to be personal unless explicitly stated. We are discussing ideas, afterall. Unfortunately, sometimes ideas are too closely tied to our sense of self that we take it as personal.

On changining people's beliefs: that is not my intention. My intention is to spark thought. I have said before on the forum that to truly find what is your beliefs you have to first abandon everything you hold true and then search for what is true to you. If you end up back where you started then you know it that it is true to you and you will have a fuller understanding of it. No matter where you end up, your belief will be rounded by the understanding of it from other perspectives. Diversity is the key to everything. Perhaps a couple of my old signature quotes best explain this.

No one can be a great thinker who does not recognize that as a thinker it is his first duty to follow his intellect to whatever conclusions it may lead.

--John Stuart Mill (1806-1873)

When all the world recognizes beauty as beauty, this in itself is ugliness.

When all the world recognizes good as good, this in itself is evil.

- Lao Tzu, Tao Teh Ching -

[Beckys_Mom]

ah becky's mom,

now there is no good, no bad, no, evil. these are all value judgements and are a matter of perspective. perhaps the best def of a god is it is a value judgement based on perspective. for just like good, evil, right, wrong, et al, they do not exist outside of the thoughts of those that utilize such constructs.

I respect your views

I believe in God because it makes me happy, that is why they call it faith, and for some reason when I pray to him, my prayers seem to be answered in many ways that in the end make me feel at peace with myself, and if that is all it take to make me feel good then good for me.

I'll be honest with you, I used to never pray to God and never go to church, because I didn't know what to believe in, and because of the times when I used to pray, my prayers where never answered, therefore I said sod it no more prayers.

Then someone told me that the reason as to why my prayers don't get answered is because I never had any real faith in God, and I never put my heart into them...

I had a long hard think about what they had said, and gave God another chance, soon i was putting my heart into my prayers and one by one they where being answered, not in the way i had thought but in other ways and I thought WOW this person was right.

I am not one of these born again christians like my mom, I still don't attened church simply because I don't feel I need to go to a place on a Sunday to talk to God,, when I can do it on my own time.

I was born a Catholic and I never believed in confessions either, again I feel I can tell God myself my sins, and I don't believe that others should force religion on to those that are not intrested.

Just because I believe in God, does not give me the right to try and convince others to follow me....everyone here all have their own ideas and I respect that.

[Beckys_Mom]

one more thing

When my lil girl is older, I wont tell her what religion she should follow, I will leave that up to her to decide

Edited November 19, 2005 by Beckys_Mom

[maggie_13]

asha! asa kang walang God!

[luckycanucky]

xenophobia

ethnocentricism (is that even a word?)

religious intolerance

Learning about someone else's life experience will not invalidate yours.

There shouldn't be a thing anyone can say to you that will change your beliefs.

The only one who can change your mind is you.

The only way anyone can make you feel inferior is if you let them. I think Mrs. Roosevelt said something similiar.

If you claim you don't care about anyone else, it says a lot about you.

I care a lot about you right now, on account of how rigid you think.

This is why there is still prejudice and racism and sexism and many other isms.

This is why there is still an idea that someone can be better than someone else because of a "belief".

Best way to understand anyone is to look where they're coming from.

Best thing to do sometimes is explore other belief systems to see where the ideas they have are coming from.

Walk a mile in the mocassins of someone else...

See things from their perspectives...

See your own perspectives change...

learn,

understand

accept

respect

find peace.

[guitarist6987876]

Here is the translation of civilization by man

[fallingalien]

You seriously need to study the history of your bible, the bible you study is based on a very poor translation of the Greek that is a translation of the Hebrew. Your bible was originally written by YHWHist priests either while in the Babylonian Exile or after the return from the Exile. Moses did not write any of the books of the OT...Matthew, Mark, Luke and John were probably not the authors of the gospels, Daniel is an pseudepigrapha, etc. It was not inspired Holy men that wrote your bible, but men desperately trying to please the Persian King in order to have a modicum of freedom.

Um, No, it said saul, AKA Paul was on a island and made some of the books of the bible, now, saul AKA paul was a man who killed christians until one day he was blinded and when someone prayed over him he was healed and ended up being one of the Greatest people for God.

Now, here is a test. If anyone can complete it I'll stop believing in God.

Make a Tree, you might think it's easy but wait.

God asked a man to make a tree, God picked up dirt out of the Ground and made a tree.

He asked the man to make a tree, the man picked up a seed, and God said "No, I made that seed, lets see you make a tree out of nothing" and he couldn't, so anybody who can tell me.

[TeraLink]

I guess there is no higher being after all. The concept of religion is a positive energy, a way to live yr life by. It never actually existed until ppl began to believe in it. Once that happened, it began to become real by using the positive energies from the ppl's beliefs. & then it continued to grow into what we have today.

TeraLink Was Here!

[luckycanucky]

I find myself intrigued by creation myths and other origin stories from other cultures and civilizations. I know people will believe wholeheartedly that the world started just like Genesis says it did, but then you start looking at all the other beliefs there have been and the similiarities of some of the stories and whatall.. Seems silly to me that people don't want to consider the possibility that it's just a story once told to explain how things got going simply because science wasn't something like we have now, with explainations that have come from experimentation and research. Everything they couldn't "know" they gave to gods to deal with, i guess. They had no means to answer questions like we can now. And we still have questions that may never be solved.

Maybe that's the point, though. Never stop asking, never stop looking. Always want to learn more, become more.

Maybe if god really did make us in his image, then perhaps that's what he hopes we all become..gods who will build new universes...

okay, now I'm just getting fictional...

[hyperactive]

indeed lucky, the commonality to all the "origin" stories is the most interesting. The core of all the stories is that man was trying to explain what he did not know. The stories tell us more about man than anything else. Man is the creator of his universe.

[+Sherapy]

Hyper, i agree the creation storys tell us very little about creation and a whole lot about mans understanding of that which he can't see or is unknown, Incidentally that was a very good article on creationism and the Catholic church , maybe others would like to read it , it seems as if religon isn't open to any other "creation story than what it decides it is , some silly fairytale lol namaste Sheri

[Bluefinger]

Yes, because its something I'm not comfortable getting involved with.

Knowledge is power, but I don't like those who are in power too much these days. The act of decieving those who don't know any better is poor responsibility of power. The muslims are being fooled and America is being fooled. The clerics pay money to families if their fathers or children go out and blow someone up along with themselves. They say this is for the will of allah, but its really for more power. America is being fooled by gas prices, in my opinion. Bad things happen, wars and hurricanes. You mean to tell me the U.S. government wasn't prepared for those kind of circumstances. We knew there was oil in Iraq and we knew Hurricanes hit the Gulf of Mexico. So why are the prices so high? And then they lower the prices by say thirty cents and everybody is happy again, paying $30.00 for a tank of gas instead of $35.00. I bet the oil companies are making quite a lot of money, I wonder who is in charge??? Boy, were we fooled. I guess that goes with the everyday life of the common man.

God bless

Then you can never be found....I feel sad for you.

Pride is the killer of men. Feel sad for yourself.

[Bluefinger]

blue.

On challenging me: fire away! I welcome anything anybody has to throw at me. For me, if it can not withstand scrutiny, how strong is it? (but be certian you know what my perspective is first. it is a little more complicated than saying just "atheist").

On respect: i understand your perspective. for me, respect is something you recieve as a product of your efforts. However, there is also a basic level of respect granted to everything for just being "what it is".

The limitations of the forum allow for misunderstandings to occur rather easily. I never mean anything to be personal unless explicitly stated. We are discussing ideas, afterall. Unfortunately, sometimes ideas are too closely tied to our sense of self that we take it as personal.

On changining people's beliefs: that is not my intention. My intention is to spark thought. I have said before on the forum that to truly find what is your beliefs you have to first abandon everything you hold true and then search for what is true to you. If you end up back where you started then you know it that it is true to you and you will have a fuller understanding of it. No matter where you end up, your belief will be rounded by the understanding of it from other perspectives. Diversity is the key to everything. Perhaps a couple of my old signature quotes best explain this.

No one can be a great thinker who does not recognize that as a thinker it is his first duty to follow his intellect to whatever conclusions it may lead.

--John Stuart Mill (1806-1873)

When all the world recognizes beauty as beauty, this in itself is ugliness.

When all the world recognizes good as good, this in itself is evil.

- Lao Tzu, Tao Teh Ching -

I did, and I'm done looking. I got right back where I started, that's how I know.

[hyperactive]

is this the same bluefinger that said he was not interested in learning about any belief structures other than christianity?

[RedRaider9981]

Knowledge is power, but I don't like those who are in power too much these days. The act of decieving those who don't know any better is poor responsibility of power. The muslims are being fooled and America is being fooled. The clerics pay money to families if their fathers or children go out and blow someone up along with themselves. They say this is for the will of allah, but its really for more power. America is being fooled by gas prices, in my opinion. Bad things happen, wars and hurricanes. You mean to tell me the U.S. government wasn't prepared for those kind of circumstances. We knew there was oil in Iraq and we knew Hurricanes hit the Gulf of Mexico. So why are the prices so high? And then they lower the prices by say thirty cents and everybody is happy again, paying $30.00 for a tank of gas instead of $35.00. I bet the oil companies are making quite a lot of money, I wonder who is in charge??? Boy, were we fooled. I guess that goes with the everyday life of the common man.

God bless

YAY!!! We finally agree on something.

[Bluefinger]

is this the same bluefinger that said he was not interested in learning about any belief structures other than christianity?

like I said, when i was younger, i questioned my faith, but stuck with it. I read up on historical backgrounds of the muslim religion and I read some of their claims and it seemed too hypocritical against itself in its own doctrine. Isaiah 9:6-7 still has me wondering why the Jewish people still don't think their Messiah has come yet. Paganism doesn't make sense to me, because if there were so many gods, wouldn't we have seen them by now. And we know that achilles wasn't invinsible from from head to his ancles. We know Pharoahs weren't gods and niether were caesars. Christ did live as recorder both by Jewish historians as well as Roman historians. Christ did do wonderful things as was even called Christ by Josephus himself, who wasn't a Christian. After much hope and faith and determination, I arrived at my choice of religion. I didn't dig too deep, but I didn't want to either. I'm sure there are more and more religions out there, but I've dedicated myself to this one.

God bless

Edited November 20, 2005 by Bluefinger

[luckycanucky]

Paganism doesn't make sense to me, because if there were so many gods, wouldn't we have seen them by now.

You've seen god?

Really?

You know what he looks like and everything?

Holy crap!

Pharoahs believed they were gods or of gods and the people believed them.

Kings have said they rule by divine right, however wrongly...

And as to Achilles, well, stories are told of heroes and heroes are often considered god-chosen and the like...

yeah?

Edited November 20, 2005 by luckycanucky

[zandore]

Pride is the killer of men. Feel sad for yourself.

How is feeling sad for someone called pride?

BTW: Even though I am not a Christian I was doing the Christian thing

Where is your Christianity?

[Bluefinger]

You've seen god?

Really?

You know what he looks like and everything?

Holy crap!

Pharoahs believed they were gods or of gods and the people believed them.

Kings have said they rule by divine right, however wrongly...

And as to Achilles, well, stories are told of heroes and heroes are often considered god-chosen and the like...

yeah?

um, no, what I'm saying is often times in paganistic mythology, the gods participated in human activities on earth, getting involved with them. And space exploration proves that atlas is not holding the earth as punishment from zues. then again, what if they're invisible???

My faith makes sense to me, that's why I'm with it.

God bless

No i havn't seen God, but when has anyone seen him directly?

[zandore]

No i havn't seen God, but when has anyone seen him directly?

Exod. 24:9,10; Amos 9:1; Gen. 26:2; and John 14:9

God CAN be seen:

"And I will take away my hand, and thou shalt see my backparts." (Ex. 33:23)

"And the Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to his friend." (Ex. 33:11)

"For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved." (Gen. 32:30)