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WongFeiHung

There is no god!

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ShaunZero

Also, if Morals are enough, then we don't even need laws, might as well toss those out the window too =D

Edited by ZeroShadow

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mako

You have a valid point to a degree, but laws are really for those individuals that have no morals, for whatever reason....probably a very small percentage of the population. :yes:

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ShaunZero

Laws are needed because not all people have the same morals. I may think killing someone if they kill a loved one is ok, you may not. So they just put out the law that if you murder you go to prison.

It's not exactly for the people with NO morals. Laws keep us in line(Even God's laws for the christians).

And you religious people claim to have higher morals than atheists rolleyes.gif

I always thought Atheist claimed the oposite. I_I

Edited by ZeroShadow

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Byuu94

I don't really have any morals, I just follow two laws:

You get what you give, and do what you want, so long as it doesn't hurt anybody. :tu:

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Stellar

No it does not mean they have less morals. It means that not murdering(given the right cirumstances) isn't one of them. They may have many others.

Murder was only an example. Like I said, if someone is only being guided by someone else, and if it werent for them, would do immoral acts, then they do have less morals.

And let's say someone does have less Morals? So what? Doesn't mean it'll be only christians without it. Why do you follow America's laws?

I dont follow America's laws.

Has nothing to do with morals really.

Exactly my point. Religion truely has nothing with morality (on an individual scale, it could, but religion as it is doesnt) yet he equated the lack of religion with immorality, therefor equating religion with morality.

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RedX

So when you were born, you knew it was wrong to steal. Or were you taught by your parents and pressured to conform to societies standards and morals. Are you sure you came up with your morals all by yourself.

And who is responsible for the rules society has currently.

I'm really playing devils advocate here folks. I'm not really a crazy person, who wants to go out and kill.

I'm saying that God keeps me in check. It's always in the back of my mind. It would make it a lot easier to not believe in God, because there would be nothing to worry about.

What do non belivers worship instead of God? Nothing, money, pleasure...?

OOKK :D someone has something to say about my past :D . If you read my last post you would know that I dont do those things because I wouldnt want other people to do that to me. Also to address were I got not stealing from. When I was a little boy (most likely a baby but I cant really think back that far.) my mom told me " You shouldnt steal from others because you wouldnt want someone to steal from you. Treat others the way you would want to be treated. ^_^ " so I guess thats were I got my way of life from in some aspect. But I had never been pressured to do this by anyone, I just dont like/enjoy/want to or am interested in doing stuff like stealling/ hurting others ect. I have never had to read a book to scare me into doing this because I just dont want to :tu: .

I keep myself in check because im my own man and am very capable of controlling myself. I have no need to think a big hand is going to come down and send me to hell if I do bad things.

Way do I have to worship anything??? Way do I have to be like you??? :hmm:

Edited by RedX

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RaginCajun

OOKK :D someone has something to say about my past :D . If you read my last post you would know that I dont do those things because I wouldnt want other people to do that to me. Also to address were I got not stealing from. When I was a little boy (most likely a baby but I cant really think back that far.) my mom told me " You shouldnt steal from others because you wouldnt want someone to steal from you. Treat others the way you would want to be treated. ^_^ " so I guess thats were I got my way of life from in some aspect. But I had never been pressured to do this by anyone, I just dont like/enjoy/want to or am interested in doing stuff like stealling/ hurting others ect. I have never had to read a book to scare me into doing this because I just dont want to :tu: .

I keep myself in check because im my own man and am very capable of controlling myself. I have no need to think a big hand is going to come down and send me to hell if I do bad things.

Way do I have to worship anything??? Way do I have to be like you??? :hmm:

if i may add that religious people feel psychologically safer and healthier because they say that a higher power keeps them that way. in reality, it is thier brain that is working psyhchologically which keeps them safer and healthier. healthier also means morals too.

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ShaunZero
I dont follow America's laws.

The laws of whereever you live. And if you don't, why the hell aren't you in prison yet XD.

And what's an imorral act to you, may not be to someone else. People have differen't morals in case you didn't know.

The book doesn't scare us into not doing things. It agrees with what we already knew before reading the book. I knew not to steal or be rude to others even before I read the bible. You're saying that most christians had NO morals and no type of guidance before reading the bible? O_o....... Close minded cough cough.

Edited by ZeroShadow

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Sherapy

Zero, the bible isn't about morallity that is why I asked if you understood Morals Zero, The bible makes moral judgements based on what they understand of what God wants , so you see Morals could not be mandated because as its obvious around here Peoples ideas of what God wants change from post to post. Take gays for example a moral has been mandated on what religon thinks God's preferences are as if God cares what you do in your bedroom Religon is the only sytem saying God does they have decided not god but them that god deems this un natural behavior. The bible is nothing more than a book of laws based on what Man thinks God wants, if you were to actually ask what God wanted you would find that you are thinking very similar to the Non bleivers but you haven't asked yourself anything you haven't questioned, you only ask the questions that religion has the answer for, Thats not questioning thats mimicing. namste Sheri

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skeksis

Zero, the bible isn't about morallity that is why I asked if you understood Morals Zero, The bible makes moral judgements based on what they understand of what God wants , so you see Morals could not be mandated because as its obvious around here Peoples ideas of what God wants change from post to post. Take gays for example a moral has been mandated on what religon thinks God's preferences are as if God cares what you do in your bedroom Religon is the only sytem saying God does they have decided not god but them that god deems this un natural behavior. The bible is nothing more than a book of laws based on what Man thinks God wants, if you were to actually ask what God wanted you would find that you are thinking very similar to the Non bleivers but you haven't asked yourself anything you haven't questioned, you only ask the questions that religion has the answer for, Thats not questioning thats mimicing. namste Sheri

ya ya.. god didnt fax the bible to earth ;) lol.. he didnt write it. man did.. AND altered it over time too!

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ShaunZero

My moral on gay people: They're kool people(Gay guys are fun to hang around for some reason) but I'm not kool with being gay myself and wouldn't care for my children to be gay.

My knowledge on what God thinks about it: It's wrong to be gay.

As you can see, the bible did no change my morals, Sherri. But thanks for the post ^^

God didn't deam it unatural. It IS unatural. Sex is to reproduce and keep the human race going(Although I like to use it for pleasure, hehe) and you can't do that with a man and a man. That's a whole nother subject let's not get back on the gay subject again.

I had morals before I read the bible, then after I read it, my morals remained the same.

And you can't act like your morals come from ONLY you and that nothing or no one else affected your moral beleifs. And sense something has bound to have altered your moral beleifs, why down on some people who DO get some morals from a book? Isn't that close minded? Saying bad things about people with different beleifs/morals than you?

Edited by ZeroShadow

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RaginCajun

Zero, the bible isn't about morallity that is why I asked if you understood Morals Zero, The bible makes moral judgements based on what they understand of what God wants , so you see Morals could not be mandated because as its obvious around here Peoples ideas of what God wants change from post to post. Take gays for example a moral has been mandated on what religon thinks God's preferences are as if God cares what you do in your bedroom Religon is the only sytem saying God does they have decided not god but them that god deems this un natural behavior. The bible is nothing more than a book of laws based on what Man thinks God wants, if you were to actually ask what God wanted you would find that you are thinking very similar to the Non bleivers but you haven't asked yourself anything you haven't questioned, you only ask the questions that religion has the answer for, Thats not questioning thats mimicing. namste Sheri

the bible has always been used by clergy men as a book to teach lessons, just like using cinderella to teach about being fair and nice. it is annoying when they seemingly do this over and over again but don't admitt to it.

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ShaunZero

What's wrong when giving young kids examples when showing them what's "bad"?

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RaginCajun

My moral on gay people: They're kool people(Gay guys are fun to hang around for some reason) but I'm not kool with being gay myself and wouldn't care for my children to be gay.

My knowledge on what God thinks about it: It's wrong to be gay.

As you can see, the bible did no change my morals, Sherri. But thanks for the post ^^

God didn't deam it unatural. It IS unatural. Sex is to reproduce and keep the human race going(Although I like to use it for pleasure, hehe) and you can't do that with a man and a man. That's a whole nother subject let's not get back on the gay subject again.

I had morals before I read the bible, then after I read it, my morals remained the same.

And you can't act like your morals come from ONLY you and that nothing or no one else affected your moral beleifs. And sense something has bound to have altered your moral beleifs, why down on some people who DO get some morals from a book? Isn't that close minded? Saying bad things about people with different beleifs/morals than you?

c what i mean?

another example :yes:

Edited by RaginCajun

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Sherapy

Zero the gay thing was an example of Morality being mandated, Humour me Zero , In the event Religion was in need of being trans formed could you see any way this would need to be done or are you satisfied with tthe job Religon has done so far??? Besides blind faith and blind trust why do you beleive the bible to be infallable ?? Namaste Sheri

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ShaunZero

Example of what? O_o.......... I'm not using the bible to teach anyone anything. O_o.....

The only thing I've been trying to get through was THE BIBLE DOES NOT ALTER MY PERSONAL MORALS WHAT SO EVER. I follow God's laws. Just like I follow America's laws. America's laws do not alter my morals just because one law is to not steal. I already know stealing is wrong, I don't need a law or a bible to tell me, but I still follow God's laws because I respect him.

Edited by ZeroShadow

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RaginCajun

wrong post B)

Edited by RaginCajun

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Sherapy

Example of what? O_o.......... I'm not using the bible to teach anyone anything. O_o.....

The only thing I've been trying to get through was THE BIBLE DOES NOT ALTER MY PERSONAL MORALS WHAT SO EVER. I follow God's laws. Just like I follow America's laws. America's laws do not alter my morals just because one law is to not steal. I already know stealing is wrong, I don't need a law or a bible to tell me, but I still follow God's laws because I respect him.

What are morals to you if i didn't know how would you explain it to me without what it isn't?? namaste sheri

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ShaunZero

I've already said that ealier. Are you sure you read my posts? =(...

I'll be nice and say it again. It's basically personal beleifs on what's wrong and what's right.

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john_galt

It sure is easier to believe God is made up. That way, we don't have any moral responsibility. We can do what ever we want. But really, if God was REALLY made up, then why wouldn't everyone just do whatever they want? Why does an Athiest still abide by a code of moral conduct? If the only thing in life is myself and my own pleasure, then why don't I step on every single toe I possibly can to get it?

I don't believe the pretext that it is easier to believe one thing than another, in general. Through years of thought and study I believe that there is a power behind the many relationships in nature beyond our daily understanding. The idea, however, of a God who would design a universe by these laws only to transcend them as well as create us only to stand in judgement of his own creation is ridiculous. I am so totally in agreement with Einstein on this that it isn't even funny.

Ah, that's why the people in power allowed religion to exist. Infact, there has never been any society which has not allowed any form of worship whatsoever.

wrong, it is officially against the policy of the Chinese government to have a religious belief. Due to widespread Buddhist beliefs and temples though, this is obviously not seriously enforced but more likely used against dissidents.

You speak as if Chritianity is the only religion.

So do you. Personally I follow the tenants of Buddhism, but believe that both Christianity and Buddhism are positive and useful when followed in a thinking, evolving, evaluating kind of way.

Everyone would be a better person if they thought they would go to heaven for it.[/i]

Sorry dude, gotta say that this is not a well thought out opinion. Look around you, I assume you are American. Most people in the US are Christians and look at the things that are being done in their name around the world, not to mention by their own companies and in thier own communities. Lots of room for those who believe in heavenly rewards to improve yet they still don't.

Interestingly enough, Rabinnical Priests have been copying the scriptures for over 4000 years letter for letter.

So you use a Hebrew text as your Bible? Cool! Or do you not realize it was not the Hebrew nation who created the King James version?

As God as my witness, I have actually witnessed what could only be described as an Angel. I was not asleep, I was not on drugs, and I was not alone. I was in my parents room, kneeling on top of my sleeping bag. I felt a touch on my back from hands. I turned around and saw a being which shone like the sun, in a pure white light, though it cast no light in the room I was in. It had visable robes around it. I couldn't make out facial features, though it did have a head, and over all was shaped like a human. The light, though extremely bright, did not hurt my eyes. It was kneeling at the foot of my sleeping bag. I stared at it for at least 20 seconds trying to figure out what I was seeing. Strangely enough, as a young person plagued with nightmares, I felt no fear whatsoever at what I saw. Infact, the lack of fear I felt was perhaps the stangest thing of the entire experience. I turned aside to grab my mother and tell her what I was seeing, and in that instant, this "being" was gone. This experience was as real as me sitting here typing this post. And how am I meant to explain this? Am I meant to lie to myself and say I didn't see it? Should I tell myself I was dreaming? Should I tell myself I was hallucinating? All I know is that at a young age, I witnessed a being that I cannot explain by any conventional means. Infact, if you can provide evidence of some widely known phenomena of this sort that I am unaware of, please do so. I'll hear you out. But here's how I put it together:

I felt physical touch.

I saw a being which had the body of a human, but glowed with an unexplainable light.

I felt no fear whatsoever.

It eventually vanished.

If you can think of a better explination than "It was an Angel", I'd be willing to hear you out.

Wow, I can't think of anything to say that wouldn't be conjecture, speculation, or rude.

I really hope you do not see my post here as any sort of an attack. I will not preach to you. I will however, discuss the subject/topic at hand with you. I'm sorry if Christians have attacked you before regarding this sort of thing. But you know, the Muslims have been getting a bad rap for suicide boimbings lately. But If you go to a mosque and talk to one, you'll find nothing but peace in them. Of course, all that we ever hear about are the extremists.....kinda like Christianity eh? I guess a few bad apples do spoil the bunch. And that's a very sad thing that we all can't just leave our prejudices behind. But I want you to know I do not wish to attack you in any way. All I want to do is to provide explinations or ideas that you may habe not considered, and of course, tell my side of things, and the way I see it.

For me, the bad taste in my mouth came not from the extremists (who seem to be more and more frequently found, a Senator recently said the hurricanes and earthquakes are God's punishment to the wicked) but the majority of Christian believers. Why all the superstition, and why such insistance that all others believe as they do or face imprisonment, or wars, or pain of death? I lived in America for most of my life, and my questions were not well recieved by Christians. I was not aggressive, but only wanted honest answers to questions. This is bordering on changing the subject so I'll go post the rest somewhere more appropriate.

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ShaunZero

Are you talking to yourself or quoting people? XD...

And it being an angel is a possibility so saying he needs to come up with a new explaination is kind of close minded.

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zandore

God didn't deam it unatural. It IS unatural. Sex is to reproduce and keep the human race going(Although I like to use it for pleasure, hehe) and you can't do that with a man and a man. That's a whole nother subject let's not get back on the gay subject again.

I had morals before I read the bible, then after I read it, my morals remained the same.

That according to your God's laws is unnatural.

Biblically thinking you are just as "evil" and as "unnatural" as homosexuals!!! :lol:

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zandore
The only thing I've been trying to get through was THE BIBLE DOES NOT ALTER MY PERSONAL MORALS WHAT SO EVER. I follow God's laws.

zero where do you find these......."God's laws"? :hmm:

An honest answer if you may.

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101

That according to your God's laws is unnatural.

Biblically thinking you are just as "evil" and as "unnatural" as homosexuals!!! :lol:

I was told different. That the union between men and women is holy. I will find proof. Kay? :yes:

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101

There is no other passage in the Old Testament or New Testament that adequately convinces us that m********ion is a sexual sin in itself. However, if we consider the mind concept that has been raised by Jesus in Matthew 5:27-28 then if we m********e with thoughts of others (men or women) then we are sinning sexually. Consider Paul's words to us in 1 Corinthians 6:12. He says that "Everything is permissable, but not all things are beneficial " and his words to us in Galatians 5:22-23 concerning self-control" "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace....self-control." versus lust in Colossians 3:5. "Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. "

sex and the Bible

This is where I found this. It was about masterbnation and other sexual pleasures we do.

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