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WongFeiHung

There is no god!

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Turtle

G-d, Adam, Eve, Eden, Heaven, Cain, Abel, Moses, Abraham, Jesus, et al... are all of the Abstract Realm--"Considered apart from matter"; "Theoretical"; "Ideal"; "Only exist as Thought."

G-d is not "fake." G-d is what an individual believes.

Interesting thesis.

Just curious, but do you then believe that we re-incarnate to parents, so we can experience god in a certain religion?

If God is only thought, then are we only thought as well?

Is our bodies only a vessel that we use to experience thought and put thought into action?

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Method

And isn't it convenient that there is no way of proving any of this stuff.

If there was a way to prove GOD existed what would be the point of worshipping him, everybody would accept he's there. Life on Earth is a trail how you choose to live it is your perogative.

"For we walk by faith, not by sight." Corinthians 5:7

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ShaunZero

If there was a way to prove GOD existed what would be the point of worshipping him, everybody would accept he's there. Life on Earth is a trail how you choose to live it is your perogative.

"For we walk by faith, not by sight." Corinthians 5:7

Nicely said. :tu::tu::tu::tu:

Edited by ZeroShadow

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hyperactive

If there was a way to prove GOD existed what would be the point of worshipping him, everybody would accept he's there. Life on Earth is a trail how you choose to live it is your perogative.

"For we walk by faith, not by sight." Corinthians 5:7

:no::rolleyes:

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ShaunZero

:no::rolleyes:

:no::no::no::no::no::no::no:

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hyperactive

zero,

why would definitive proof of something diminish it? just think about it for one minute. Why is it necessary for the 'god' attribution to include some form of mystery? Knowing it is there (if it existed, that is) would not diminish what it is at all. All you are doing is maintaining your own fantasies by claiming you somehow NEED it to be mysterious because you NEED faith.

The key here is in the NEEDINESS!

Perhaps it wouldn't live up to your expectations if it were identified? Reality so easily falls short after one has been dreaming of all the possibilities!

Of course, there is also the loss of the believers 'exclusivity' factor that may well make some not want their fantasies made into reality. After all, when it is in 'your head' it is yours, when it is released to the masses it is everybodies.

Edited by hyperactive

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ShaunZero

why would definitive proof of something diminish it? just think about it for one minute. Why is it necessary for the 'god' attribution to include some form of mystery? Knowing it is there (if it existed, that is) would not diminish what it is at all

It would destroy the point of Faith. God want's to see who has faith in him.

"For we walk by faith, not by sight." Corinthians 5:7

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hyperactive

hey zero, put the man-made tripe aside for a minute and answer me honestly.

IF some 'creator of the universe' (or whatever you prefer) were to be proven and revealed to all, how would this in any way diminish that it 'created the universe'?

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ShaunZero

I never said it wouldn't. I said it would defeat the purpose of peopel having faith in him. No one would be able to look at the universe and say "Nah, nothing special, there's no God". And nothing would be able to tempt beleivers to become non-beleivers. Everyone would beleive. He wants to see who will be trust in him. If you want someone to trust in you and what you say, you're not going to proove what you're saying is true, but find out if the person trusts and beleives you.

Edited by ZeroShadow

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HKCavalier

the native american cultures, although many were as different from each other as china and france-the ones i have studied all have a source, which americans like to translate as "Great Spirit". Most "Native american" customs quoted by americans are based on Lakota-Sioux, which of course had "Wakan Taka" - look it up if you don't believe me.

Of course when you look through your Euro-centric, hierarchical, pyramidal consciousness at these various folks they look that way to you. The Native American cosmology is so decentralized it's hard for European people to see what's really going on beyond their own prejudices. In European terms it is far closer to animism than monotheism. Great Spirit, Wakan Tanka, is much more a feeling than a deity. To a European ethnographer, Coyote and Great Spirit are "gods." Whatever you do, even though Coyote created humans from clay one morning long ago, don't pray to him unless you want to get locked out of your house, lose your job and your girlfriend and have the roof cave in! :D

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hyperactive

I never said it wouldn't. I said it would defeat the purpose of peopel having faith in him. No one would be able to look at the universe and say "Nah, nothing special, there's no God". And nothing would be able to tempt beleivers to become non-beleivers. Everyone would beleive. He wants to see who will be trust in him. If you want someone to trust in you and what you say, you're not going to proove what you're saying is true, but find out if the person trusts and beleives you.

you still have NOT answered without refering to mad-made tripe! :wacko:

edit: ask yourself why something you think is so worthy would have any NEED for you to play with you in such a way?

The problem with religions is they are of a child's mindset, and do a great discredit to anything that hypothetically would be out there. In your narrowmindedness, you not only discredit yourself, but that which you claim created it all.

The only ones that need faith and benefit from your succumbing to it are religions. Think about who/what benefits and loses from a 'creator' being revealed. The creator does not lose anything, nor really gain anything. You gain your egoboost from knowing what you hypotheseized was correct. I could not care less. Religion looses its primary tool since it uses 'faith' to justify its own existance and to secure its power. Stop surrendering to man-made tripe!

Edited by hyperactive

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Tornado

Wow, great thread!!! Yep!

I agree with you, Wong. I've always believed it to be a serious case of Chinese Whispers. Jesus rose from the cross??? Erm, maybe it was a post-death judder instead? It's not like they had a huge medical knowledge back then.

People believed what they wanted to believe. Eventually this faith was created to keep the human race in line. It's amazing how, to this day, only one person was known to have been impregnated by a gas/energy/spirit (whatever you wanna call it) but yet now, in a day where we are so far advanced, not even medical science couldn't achieve that - unless you want to include the test-tube method?! I'd hate to think what Joseph had to say to Mary when she confessed.

So many things can be explained to you about your subject but I have no time for people like you. Atheism is fine, but people who attack those with beliefs through words or violence sicken me.

you are a sick man for telling people they should not worship god or whatever they do because you do not believe he exists I leave you now with hop that you will not attack others with merely a history lesson and get a life.

Hmm ... obviously you DID have the time as you read the opening of the thread and replied. :yes: As far as "attacking" goes, they weren't doing that. They're giving their opinion (they didn't say that you should agree with it, nor stop believing). There's NOTHING "sick" about that! ...

Oh, and if anyone is doing the attacking, it's YOU!

The points brought up in the first posts does not prove anything. Ok, so you've thought of a few reasons why God could have been made up. That does not, in any way, prove that is what happened, or that that's the factual truth.

You're right, but there is no "factual" truth that he DID exist either. Again, it's an opinion. Take it as you see it.

In response to the original poster that's your opinion. Believe whatever you damn well want, but just like it is on the other side of the fence (i.e. those that believe) don't expect anyone to follow you. In case you haven't noticed no one gives a damn.

Actually, YOU, among many people here, are showing that you DO give a damn. You wouldn't have replied otherwise. So far, we're on the 50th page of people who supposedly "don't give a damn(?)".

I used to believe like you do. "There's no God. You can't prove it to me either." That's called having a closed mind.

My mind is as open as a fridge door (wide ... mmMmm, I see chicken), yet I don't believe in God, neither am I seeking him. If he's so bothered about what people think, he'll show himself.

Even though gods were made up, what about Jesus? He did a bunch of good things and everything, and he even taught about God, and he rose from the dead. That's why people started believing in God, they didn't make it up. Christianity wasn't made up, it was based on historical things.

Again, people probably THOUGHT that he rose from the cross, but I still call that a post-death judder (body spasms). Either that, or they had a defibrillator hidden away somewhere ... I don't think so! :no:

I'd say that i have to agree with the first post....What I find funny is how the God followers here so quickly jumped on him about it. If you truly feel that nothing he said is true or possibly true then why get so upset about it?

Yep, I'll go with that.

booooooo :td: god is real...you believe that ******* from comedy central god judge people for what they really are good or evil.Without god would jesus exist?i can't belive you even post this

They posted this so that people like YOU would reply. :P

Sad.. truly sad.. another fruit cake thinking he can join UM and change what every believes!!! :rolleyes: Just because they said so! :hmm:

Lmao, another person who can't take an opinion. They're not expecting to change anyone's beliefs. They're merely sharing their own. This doesn't make them a "fruit cake"!!! :angry:

Don't know how many times I have heard that one...

God is real People!!! There I said that!

But you know of course, thats just my humble opinion...

LBD

Cool, and I wouldn't, same as nobody else should, judge you for that.

EDIT: The way I see it is, if the religious are so sure that there is a God, they would have no reason to get upset when an alternative opinion is given. OR, maybe you're offensive and defensive side comes from your insecurities - meaning that deep down, you know there is no proof and there is a chance that others could be right?

I'm not attacking any of you. I'm cool with whatever you believe, but it's YOU (not all of you) that seem to have this chip on your shoulder when it comes to hearing differently.

Edited by Tornado

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ShaunZero
edit: ask yourself why something you think is so worthy would have any NEED for you to play with you in such a way?

That's only your opinion. I don't see it as him playing with us. I'd do the exact same if I were him also.

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hyperactive

well, zero, you have demonstrated how religion is of a child's mindset at least.

The last time you played with ants did you check to see if they knew you were there if any just believed in you, ect?

I see the whole point is lost on you so i will just let it go. enjoy your dogma, whichever one you end up adopting.

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mklsgl

Turtle:

"Just curious, but do you then believe that we re-incarnate to parents, so we can experience god in a certain religion?"

- You need to rephrase this question so that it makes sense. I don't want to assume what you mean. Please clarify.

"If God is only thought, then are we only thought as well?"

- Some, such as Schopenhauer, would argue that "The World is Idea." (see The World as Will and Idea, Arthur Schopenhauer, 1819.) I believe that "we" perceive experiences through sensory modes.

"Is [Are] our bodies only a vessel that we use to experience thought and put thought into action?"

- No, that would be too limiting. Our bodies are the complex evolution of an even more complex existence of possibilities.

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mklsgl

ZeroShadow:

"He wants to see who will be trust[ing] in him"(1). If you want someone to trust in you and what you say, you're not going to proove[prove] what you're saying is true, but find out if the person trusts and beleives[believes] you"(2).

1) If G-d is All Things (omnipresent), then doesn't G-d already know who trusts him?

2) If I understand your words correctly, you are saying that if you want someone to trust you, you have to find out if someone trusts you. This assertion defies common logic. Perhaps I simply don't comprehend your progression of thought here. I always thought that trust is something earned through behavior and truth.

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sublime_serenity75

Virtually every tribe of people on Earth has had some belief in a Higher Being.

Yes, and as the thread starter pointed out, many people came up with their own mythology as to what the meaning of life was and to help them figure out what their purpose here might be. Whether the first humans that saw a comet or had crops fail lived in Africa, Europe, or Asia, all had the desire to create meaning-hence belief.

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Megalomania

I hate people who come here with their bold statements, that use inconclusive evidence to try to prove a point that can't be proven anyway.

Just gets on my nerves... ya know? :P

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Tornado

2) If I understand your words correctly, you are saying that if you want someone to trust you, you have to find out if someone trusts you. This assertion defies common logic. Perhaps I simply don't comprehend your progression of thought here. I always thought that trust is something earned through behavior and truth.

You're right. Trust is something earned through behaviour and truth, but it is also a two-way thing. How can you have trust in something/something that you don't even know for sure exists?

To me, God has a crappy way of going about things ...

I can't remember who in here said it, or even if it is on another thread, but it was something about "only a true Christian goes to heaven" - what a load of b******s!!! If I have no way of knowing if God exists - it's not like he's jumping out in my face and waving his hands around - then WHY should I believe or worship him? Hence my NOT (supposedly) going to Heaven.

Why should I trust someone/something that seems to get off on mentally TEASING a human being? It's like a riddle that has no answer. Is THAT worth trust???

It's bulls**t! :angry2:

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Sherapy

tornado, maybe what you are referring to is common sense and discernment, I'd say you are on the right track with the trust concept, Namaste Sheri

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ShaunZero

I don't get how people how lives while studying these subjects so much. :: blink blink ::

And being on these forums so much too. >.>

Edited by ZeroShadow

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EmpressV

zero, People have studied these things over many years. The years you haven't lived yet. You are curious though, so one day you will have the knowledge that we have. Be patient, listen and continue asking questions.

Edited by curiousity

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ShaunZero

zero, People have studied these things over many years. The years you haven't lived yet. You are curious though, so one day you will have the knowledge that we have. Be patient, listen and continue asking questions.

So I WILL have the knowledge you have? Depends on wich subject you're talking about. I have a few in mine I'm quite educated in.

1) If G-d is All Things (omnipresent), then doesn't G-d already know who trusts him?

This is the same as the old "Why give us free will if he already knows who will obey him and who won't"

Edited by ZeroShadow

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seanph
I don't get how people how lives while studying these subjects so much. :: blink blink ::

And being on these forums so much too. >.>

Speaking for myself ... I study these subjects because of my deep passion for the past. Went to college where I received a Bachelor of Science, History and Classics, from Ball State University. My area of specialty for the past twenty years--Greco-Roman culture, Early Christianity, and the Middle Ages [mid 1400's]. I spend several hours everyday reading, doing research, and speaking with like-minded individuals here and elsewhere. Being retired allows me to indulge myself in what I love to do.

Well, that's my story. ;)

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ShaunZero

Not downing on anyone, but are you only social with people who study the same things as you? That group of people isn't really.....socially adapt. In my opinion of course XD...

Scientists aren't the best people to look at and "chill" with. =P

I was just saying that it seems like these people are constantly studying or debating, that they never seem to have time to 1. Be social, 2. Not be what society calls a "geek".

I know we need to accept people more, but come on now. >.>

Edited by ZeroShadow

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