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WongFeiHung

There is no god!

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Sherapy

Actually i am serious joc Why the need for forgiveness in your opinion, Of all the thousands of silly beleifs the bible isn't one of mine I haven't found it serves me. namaste sheri

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joc

Actually i am serious joc Why the need for forgiveness in your opinion, Of all the thousands of silly beleifs the bible isn't one of mine I haven't found it serves me. namaste sheri

I know you are serious Sheri. :huh:

The state of mankind exists as far more than a 'religious' debate. The Mind of Man is all important. There is a cleansing of the mind, so to speak, that comes about when one forgives.

Forgiveness says: My hate is not going to be the driving force of my mind...rather it shall be governed by love. Forgiveness takes Negatives and turns them into Positives. Forgiveness extends hope to the unforgiven. You know Sheri...thought process is a giant revolving circle of sorts...sometimes we get so wrapped up in a certain revolution of thought that it orbits us right out of the realm of 'reality'. While on one hand it is a good idea to 'fly' with our thought processes...eventual self-destruction is almost certain if we don't keep at least one foot on the terra-ferma of our Mind. ;)

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Sherapy

Joc and the bible is "reality" to you HMMM, Forgiveness is a elementary understanding , Joc Healing is another word for forgiveness it can be a bridge that creates an enviorment of healing, its not rocket science it wouldn't need such a dramatic production as suggested by the life of Jesus to get that across,nor is the current understanding of Jesus very deep do you have children Joc if so, you have observed yourself the tool of forgiveness namaste Sheri

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joc
Healing is another word for forgiveness

Actually Healing is the effect caused by Forgiveness. :)

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Paranoid Android

Joc, Why would there be a need for forgiveness?? Jesus (if there was a jesus) was no the only "good" person that has ever walked or will ever walk, nor was his message original Namaste Sheri

In your opinion perhaps......

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Sherapy

Actually Healing is the effect caused by Forgiveness. :)

Forgiveness allows you to heal just about any psychological, emotionnal and sometimes physical problem you imagine inflicted on you Comforting can be another word for forgiveness along with healing, its not the effect of it, its very nature is healing and comforting. The understanding of forgiveness is primitive in the bible its so warped and distorted the original meaning of jesus's life has been lost(if he lived) If you have forgiven anyone you should understand its nature Just as love is freedom limitless and eternal its not the effect of love it is love. ( if you beleive in love that is) Namaste Sheri

Edited by Sheri berri

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Guardsman Bass

And that is string theory.

The problem with string theory is that while it can bridge the gap between gravity and quantum mechanics, it also produces a whole lot of predictions that are extremely difficult to experimentally test, like the 'ten dimensions.'

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Yelekiah

Another problem is that there are five formulations of string theory :o

And it keeps expanding. They added Father theory (12 dimensions) a couple of months back.

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hyperactive

The problem with string theory is that while it can bridge the gap between gravity and quantum mechanics, it also produces a whole lot of predictions that are extremely difficult to experimentally test, like the 'ten dimensions.'

what i was originally referencing is the theory of space being 2 dimensional with gravity and the third being an illusion.

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Big cheese
Jesus was a being like no other, demons feared his presence, and yet man betrayed him when his only message to the world was kindness and understanding, all of which society lacked and still lacks in it's time.

I feel forgiveness because i can empathise with a person in a given situation through human compassion not because im trying to live up to the moral guidelines set by someone else’s example

and if Jesus ever existed at all he can take the credit for being the first hippy and nothing besides

Edited by Big cheese

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Ourmoonlitsun

The problem with string theory is that while it can bridge the gap between gravity and quantum mechanics, it also produces a whole lot of predictions that are extremely difficult to experimentally test, like the 'ten dimensions.'

:tu: This is actually something that we can soundly agree on.

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Bluefinger

Ok, before any of you religious people come in here and start saying how I'm going to go to hell, and turned into salt or whatever, read this WHOLE thing.

(Some of the things I say here may have been posted in replies to other topics)

I believe that God is completely made up. Throughout many thousands of years and civilizations all over the globe, societies have had a God or gods. This is because they have no better explanation for misunderstood things. "There was an earthquake!!! God is angry!" "Our crops grew tall this year!!! God is pleased!" "This lady woke up from a coma!!! It's a miracle, God saved her!" And so with the common belief that god controls everything we have accepted his rule and everything he does is right. "My grandma dies!!! God did that for a reason!" and so on.

The reason that civilization made God or gods was to keep everyone in line. So many more people would resist stealing and murdering if they thought they would go to hell if they did so. Everyone would be a better person if they thought they would go to heaven for it. God was created to help people stick together and prosper. And I don't think it was a bad thing! Society might not have advanced past what middle eastern poor people have now if they didn't make it, so it was a great idea to conjure that illusion up!

And isn't it convenient that there is no way of proving any of this stuff. Is there a heaven, only the dead know. Is there a god, same answer. How do I know there is a God? You just have to believe....... That last remark is what really bugs me about religion. You just have to believe. What are we believing in? are we believing the priest that there is a God? How does HE know?? He believed a different priest and here is how the telephone game starts. You start out saying "oh Ted has a funny face", and it ends up as "Green books taste like toe jam!" There is no credibility. Religion is worse! It has gone on for thousands of years!

The ancient greeks would have sworn on their lives that there were really manticores, cyclopses and chimeras, but no we know they don't exist. And the same thing happens with christians and angels. maybe they don't see them as frequently, but they believe. If there really is a god, then the bibles MUST be false. This is a quote I got off of comedy central (tv) and i think it is true while funny. I'm not sure it is really a quote though because I don't remember it word for word. "The bible says God doesn't want me to do my sister, but it also says that adam and eve created all humanity and if they had kids, there would be no one else for them to do! Someone had to bang their sister."

I might have forgotten some stuff, but I am tired and it's like midnight here so if you Christians want to attack me now, go ahead, I'm sure there is plenty of stuff in there for you to find holes in, but once you point them out to me, I WILL fill them in.

It sounds like you have a bit of bitterness towards God and the Church, i may be wrong though. Okay, i've heard your view and understand where you are getting at.

Allow me to entertain you with some brain crunchers to work out your beef with religion and God. By these responses, I mean all due respect and no offense in any circumstance.

First off, i noticed that you aimed this debate toward Christians. I understand Christians are the main body of debaters here, but I'm convinced that athiesm is just rebellion against the Churches of the world for all the hypocritical things they've done. My question is, if you got beef with the Church, why aren't you calling the people out on thier hypocrisy? Why'd you forsake faith and blame their religion. Religion had nothing to do with how those people acted, it was all them. Their hearts were tainted from the beginning. Just because you believe Jesus came, it doesn't mean you follow him. I think you should understand that religion itself is pure, its the people that are unpure. They will blame anything for their foolish choices except themselves. They lust and seek out to be gods among people. Its human nature.

Second, I understand your reasoning for believing that God was made up. It seems logical. Could you be right, or could have God shown himself in many different ways to many different people to see how they would follow him? In the beginning around Noah's time, everyone knew of God. There was no set religion, but many men decided to follow their own desires and totally ignore God. It could have also been a telephone game (as you call it) down the generations of mankind until they forgot completely. Maybe people admired the aspects of one religion more than their own and then made their own religion. I dunno. I have faith, I believe, and I know in my heart that God exists.

Take the story of Noah for example. The asians, muslims, hawaiins, ect. all have their own story about a man on a giant boat escaping the flood waters that flooded the whole earth and killed all living things. Guess what, he had different names too. Who told this man that the flood was coming? God. in all cultures. It could be a good possibility that God exists, but everyone told the testimony from their own perspective.

Third, while it makes sense that civilization would have used religion to keep everyone in line, that excuse doesn't work anymore. Many different religions continue to thrive despite the rising number of nonreligious people and great tragedies. I also feel it is not our place to make excuses for other people's belief, since we have only one mind that is our own. No two minds are identical.

Fourth, if you want proof of God, you will have to look beyond earth and science. Look at love. Do you love someone? If you love them, that means that you will die for them. That means you would give up everything you worked so hard for to benefit the health and happiness of a brother, sister, wife, girlfriend, friend, or what have you. My point is that by loving someone, you are acting contrary to human and animal nature for you deprive yourself of what helps you survive for the survival of someone else. Why end your life after you worked so hard to be happy? It makes no sense to die if there is no afterlife. Death would then make living pointless. People must be just too intelligent to reason with that concept though.

There is also time. When did time begin? How did time begin? Where did time begin? Everything had to start from something. Everything had to come from somewhere. Before the big bang, where did the universe before that come from? And so on and so forth. Science cannot answer this very simple question. I say God. I don't need to know about God's origins because he tells me all I need to know. Just as a parent hides things from his kids to protect them or keep them on the right path, i see the same with God's origins.

Lastly, I believe that Adam and Eve were actual creations by God whereas humans were likened to animals. If you notice, Even had Cain first and then Abel. Cain killed Abel and was kicked out of the Garden of Eden before Eve gave birth to Seth. Cain complained about how people will seek his life when he was to be kicked out. Who would seek his life? It also says that Cain went to the East and got married. He had kids too. Who did he marry? You might want to ponder on the possiblity that in the beginning could have been the beginning of God's dealing with mankind. Heck, there could have been an ice age and then God decided to work with man. Why do you think there is a missing link between apes and man. Because man is God's creation that he made for his glory.

I am very eager to discuss this with you. If you see anything that misleads you, please point it out to me.

God bless

Edited by Bluefinger

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ShaunZero

It sounds like you have a bit of bitterness towards God and the Church, i may be wrong though. Okay, i've heard your view and understand where you are getting at.

Allow me to entertain you with some brain crunchers to work out your beef with religion and God. By these responses, I mean all due respect and no offense in any circumstance.

First off, i noticed that you aimed this debate toward Christians. I understand Christians are the main body of debaters here, but I'm convinced that athiesm is just rebellion against the Churches of the world for all the hypocritical things they've done. My question is, if you got beef with the Church, why aren't you calling the people out on thier hypocrisy? Why'd you forsake faith and blame their religion. Religion had nothing to do with how those people acted, it was all them. Their hearts were tainted from the beginning. Just because you believe Jesus came, it doesn't mean you follow him. I think you should understand that religion itself is pure, its the people that are unpure. They will blame anything for their foolish choices except themselves. They lust and seek out to be gods among people. Its human nature.

Second, I understand your reasoning for believing that God was made up. It seems logical. Could you be right, or could have God shown himself in many different ways to many different people to see how they would follow him? In the beginning around Noah's time, everyone knew of God. There was no set religion, but many men decided to follow their own desires and totally ignore God. It could have also been a telephone game (as you call it) down the generations of mankind until they forgot completely. Maybe people admired the aspects of one religion more than their own and then made their own religion. I dunno. I have faith, I believe, and I know in my heart that God exists.

Take the story of Noah for example. The asians, muslims, hawaiins, ect. all have their own story about a man on a giant boat escaping the flood waters that flooded the whole earth and killed all living things. Guess what, he had different names too. Who told this man that the flood was coming? God. in all cultures. It could be a good possibility that God exists, but everyone told the testimony from their own perspective.

Third, while it makes sense that civilization would have used religion to keep everyone in line, that excuse doesn't work anymore. Many different religions continue to thrive despite the rising number of nonreligious people and great tragedies. I also feel it is not our place to make excuses for other people's belief, since we have only one mind that is our own. No two minds are identical.

Fourth, if you want proof of God, you will have to look beyond earth and science. Look at love. Do you love someone? If you love them, that means that you will die for them. That means you would give up everything you worked so hard for to benefit the health and happiness of a brother, sister, wife, girlfriend, friend, or what have you. My point is that by loving someone, you are acting contrary to human and animal nature for you deprive yourself of what helps you survive for the survival of someone else. Why end your life after you worked so hard to be happy? It makes no sense to die if there is no afterlife. Death would then make living pointless. People must be just too intelligent to reason with that concept though.

There is also time. When did time begin? How did time begin? Where did time begin? Everything had to start from something. Everything had to come from somewhere. Before the big bang, where did the universe before that come from? And so on and so forth. Science cannot answer this very simple question. I say God. I don't need to know about God's origins because he tells me all I need to know. Just as a parent hides things from his kids to protect them or keep them on the right path, i see the same with God's origins.

Lastly, I believe that Adam and Eve were actual creations by God whereas humans were likened to animals. If you notice, Even had Cain first and then Abel. Cain killed Abel and was kicked out of the Garden of Eden before Eve gave birth to Seth. Cain complained about how people will seek his life when he was to be kicked out. Who would seek his life? It also says that Cain went to the East and got married. He had kids too. Who did he marry? You might want to ponder on the possiblity that in the beginning could have been the beginning of God's dealing with mankind. Heck, there could have been an ice age and then God decided to work with man. Why do you think there is a missing link between apes and man. Because man is God's creation that he made for his glory.

I am very eager to discuss this with you. If you see anything that misleads you, please point it out to me.

God bless

Great post! Scientists still don't know how the universe was created. But they still won't even consider a creator. Even though there's no evidence or proof of a creator, in my opinion so far it would be the only working idea of what created the universe. Something acting outside of our perception, created everything we now know.

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Bluefinger

Great post! Scientists still don't know how the universe was created. But they still won't even consider a creator. Even though there's no evidence or proof of a creator, in my opinion so far it would be the only working idea of what created the universe. Something acting outside of our perception, created everything we now know.

thanks, its odd that none respond to the whole "how did time start" thing. I wonder why? :innocent:

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Stellar

Great post! Scientists still don't know how the universe was created. But they still won't even consider a creator.

WHy should they? Science is not about jumping to conclusions.

Even though there's no evidence or proof of a creator, in my opinion so far it would be the only working idea of what created the universe.

"Opinion" is the key word.

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Bluefinger

WHy should they? Science is not about jumping to conclusions.

"Opinion" is the key word.

If we can't find out how time began, how are we ever going to prove God doesn't or does exist? That's why it is a matter of faith.

God Bless

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Archimboldo

Great post! Scientists still don't know how the universe was created.

Nor does anyone else know, for sure. Scientists posit it came from a Big Bang, because that is what the evidence leads them to believe. It is possible they are incorrect and most scientists accept that as well.

But they still won't even consider a creator.

Some of them do.

What most of them will not do is accept positions that are not in accord with the evidence.

Even though there's no evidence or proof of a creator, in my opinion so far it would be the only working idea of what created the universe. Something acting outside of our perception, created everything we now know.

This is the difference between religion and science, faith and evidence. They have different roles to play. Science seeks to explain how the laws of nature, (or God), work whilst religion seeks to discover why there are laws at all.

Arc

Edited by Archimboldo

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Bluefinger

Nor does anyone else know, for sure. Scientists posit it came from a Big Bang, because that is what the evidence leads them to believe. It is possible they are incorrect and most scientists accept that as well.

Some of them do.

What most of them will not do is accept positions that are not in accord with the evidence.

This is the difference between religion and science, faith and evidence. They have different roles to play. Science seeks to explain how the laws of nature, (or God), work whilst religion seeks to discover why there are laws at all.

Arc

I believe religion is a personal relationship with God and other believers. Love would be that relationship. Not to question laws. For, if love was in practice, the laws would already be obeyed. The obedience of law is love, we all seek love, so we don't neccessarily seek to discover why there are laws at all. If you know your own heart, you may realize why there are laws in the first place.

God bless

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RedRaider9981

Another problem is that there are five formulations of string theory :o

And it keeps expanding. They added Father theory (12 dimensions) a couple of months back.

What is this string theory all yall speak of?

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EmpressV

Bluefinger I want to comment on some of the statements you made about the OP. Athiests aren't rebelling as you call it. They choose not to believe in fantasies and their beefwith religion is that the religious have a nasty habit of injecting their beliefs into a nonbelievers life, usually through government or forced belief in conversation.

Next, during Noah's time people believed everything was controlled by a god. Fables were the only way people communicated across the lands. That is why they are so simular not because they are true.

You speak of love as though the only way to truely know it or appreciate it is to know your god. That is not true in the least. I have been an N/B for many years and I know of and live with love every day. I don't need some man made entity to show me love. I look around me every day and I appreciate all that the natural world has to offer.

I have also heard you make mention of the time elements that you believe a god created. I am curious, if god created time then time will cease when the revelation is fulfilled? How can this happen when time is infinate? We all want to know how time began, but I think your answer is very simplistic and I don't think it's inception is quite that easily explained. But hey,whatever makes you happy ;)

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Guardsman Bass

What is this string theory all yall speak of?

Check out this link. It does a pretty decent job.

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Bluefinger

Bluefinger I want to comment on some of the statements you made about the OP. Athiests aren't rebelling as you call it. They choose not to believe in fantasies and their beefwith religion is that the religious have a nasty habit of injecting their beliefs into a nonbelievers life, usually through government or forced belief in conversation.

Next, during Noah's time people believed everything was controlled by a god. Fables were the only way people communicated across the lands. That is why they are so simular not because they are true.

You speak of love as though the only way to truely know it or appreciate it is to know your god. That is not true in the least. I have been an N/B for many years and I know of and live with love every day. I don't need some man made entity to show me love. I look around me every day and I appreciate all that the natural world has to offer.

I have also heard you make mention of the time elements that you believe a god created. I am curious, if god created time then time will cease when the revelation is fulfilled? How can this happen when time is infinate? We all want to know how time began, but I think your answer is very simplistic and I don't think it's inception is quite that easily explained. But hey,whatever makes you happy ;)

okay, thanks for the reply.

An athiest may not see turning away from God as a rebellion, maybe more like a liberation from an order they see is useless. I know many athiests and most of them grew up in Christian homes and went to Church every sunday.

As I said before, don't have beef with the religion, have beef with the people. Because there are good believers as there are those that claim Jesus, but refuse to walk in His steps. The religion isn't the problem. The teaching itself can do nothing, only the person. Why refuse to call a man out on his hypocrisy? Would this not be easier than blaming a religion for the things he did. Nothing makes us make decisions but ourselves. Our minds and hearts are ours and no one elses.

I didn't say that only religious people love. I said true religion is love, love for God and love for your neighbor. I think you misinterpreted what I said.

Time doesn't cease when revelation is fulfilled. Revelation says it itself.

Revelation 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

Time keeps going on, because God lives forever. Since God lives forever, then we who confide in him live forever as well.

God Bless

Edited by Bluefinger

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EmpressV

You are under the assumption that the book you follow hasn't been tampered with by man. We all know that it has. So that would make the interpretation of the book not of the words of your god but the words of people. Not to mention the sermons given every sunday in the interpretation of the clergy. Then there are the interpretations of all the people reading the book. What is the real story? Does anyone really know anymore? No wonder so many people are confused. This is one of the reasons some of us liberated ourselves from fairytale gods.

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Bluefinger

You are under the assumption that the book you follow hasn't been tampered with by man. We all know that it has. So that would make the interpretation of the book not of the words of your god but the words of people. Not to mention the sermons given every sunday in the interpretation of the clergy. Then there are the interpretations of all the people reading the book. What is the real story? Does anyone really know anymore? No wonder so many people are confused. This is one of the reasons some of us liberated ourselves from fairytale gods.

I see where you are getting at. But, if I were a god, i'm not but i'm just saying if i was, I wouldn't mislead my creation. If I was an inventor, I wouldn't send the invention without an instruction manual or a salesman to explain it. My point is, that I trust God enough to keep me in the right direction, so no, I don't think it was tampered with. I think the Church has taken and still takes plenty of opportunities to discern the false from the true.

I agree that, back then during the apostles' times, people wrote things in their names to mislead people, but I'm sure the apostles stood their ground and kept true teaching. Its up to you to choose what you think is right. Just because the thought of God doesn't work out for, it doesn't mean that it doesn't work out for others or even make sense to them.

The way I look at it is this.....If I was a greek in a latin providence and no one spoke latin in my family and none of the latin people spoke greek, then how would the latin people understand the greek people when they speak? They aren't in the same family and weren't born into that custom and language. The same goes with God.

God is a Spirit. If you don't have Spiritual eyes that only God can give, how will you see God. If you don't have Spiritual ears that only God can give, how will you hear him speak to you? This is symbolic, if you can tell me what I'm trying to tell you, but uncoded, then maybe I can speak further about this to you.

God bless

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zandore

Time keeps going on, because God lives forever. Since God lives forever, then we who confide in him live forever as well.

Does this apply to all of the Gods that existed both before and after the Christian God

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