There is no god!

[hyperactive]

is it laughter? i am not using the homophobic nature of suacy's church in the dabate over the "fakeness" of gods. this is merely a side conversation.

Edited August 5, 2005 by hyperactive

[Something Like Laughter]

is it laughter?

yep.

what suacy's church does wrt sexuality has nothing to do with its god being fake or not (the original arguement).

nor does it have anything to do with saucy's post.

[hyperactive]

sorry laughter, i was using a quote from this thread by saucy in reference to what he said in another thread (birds and bees) but incorrectly recalled as being in this thread.

Ah, chill out.  It's no secret that the church and God doesn't like homosexuality.  He created then man and wife, male and female, Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.  God created the family, husband and wife, so they can sleep with each other and have children.  That's the purpose of a family.  God doesn't hate homosexuals though.  He loves everyone.  He thinks it's an abomination to His creation.  Man and woman fits perfectly well together.  Not man on man.

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[LarryOldtimer]

Insight: It sure is easier to believe God is made up. That way, we don't have any moral responsibility. We can do what ever we want. But really, if God was REALLY made up, then why wouldn't everyone just do whatever they want? Why does an Athiest still abide by a code of moral conduct? If the only thing in life is myself and my own pleasure, then why don't I step on every single toe I possibly can to get it?

Nice try, but no sale. If everyone acted as you say, the world would be an impossible place to live . . . athiests can figure that out, even if you can't. What you are talking about is anarchy, which is dreadful. With known and understood laws and rules, life is much easier, even if you don't agree completely with those laws and rules. One can always work to change the rules disagreed with. I have no belief in God, but I live my life in such a way that if everyone lived that way, it would be a much better and easier world to live in. Simple as that. The existance of a "God" isn't required, and there have been "Godless" societies in history which had similar if not the same laws and rules.

[+Paranoid Android]

Bacca Hyper Mako good posts

the morality part. I find interesting is that great problems have arisen because societies seek to change yet morals do not, Religion impedes and stops change,yet change is the nature of life,you can't create a better life by dening life!!!

for whatever reasons the God that has been created is a God with needs, somewhere someone decided God had needs and needs people to behave in a certin way and how to go about doing that, These morals are Human created contructs based on a God with needs, they are false and they aren't working , is my take ,

774219[/snapback]

It sounds like a great theory Sheri, and I'd agree with it, except for the matter of perspective. It seems to be nice and simple to say that whatever way works for you, go for it. But we know whenever we see a suicide bomber blow up a building that in practice, this theory just does not work.

Suppose (and I hope I don't offend you with this) I were to rape, torture and kill one or more of your children. I do not repent and indeed say I'd do it again if I had the opportunity. According to your philosophy there is nothing wrong with this - it is simply my chosen path, and should lead directly to God, right?

I apologize for the strong example. All the best,

[+Paranoid Android]

Nice try, but no sale.  If everyone acted as you say, the world would be an impossible place to live . . . athiests can figure that out, even if you can't.  What you are talking about is anarchy, which is dreadful.  With known and understood laws and rules, life is much easier, even if you don't agree completely with those laws and rules.  One can always work to change the rules disagreed with.  I have no belief in God, but I live my life in such a way that if everyone lived that way, it would be a much better and easier world to live in.  Simple as that.  The existance of a "God" isn't required, and there have been "Godless" societies in history which had similar if not the same laws and rules. 

775055[/snapback]

Nice try, but no sale either. You seem to believe that people will work together if you let them.

So let me ask you a question. If the chief of police announced that tomorrow the police force would be on strike and there'd be no officers to uphold the law, would you leave your house and go to town? No. Why? Because you know as well as I do that human nature being what it is, people will jump on the opportunity to further their own goals with no consequences. Just observe looters during a crisis if you don't believe me.

[aquatus1]

I believe the point was that rules and regulations do not have to be handed down by a god in order for a society to follow them. I don't think LarryOldTimer would ever suggest that people are all inherently warm and fuzzy inside and would happily live together in harmony.

Insight's comment made the assumption that the only source of morality is a god, and that the exclusion of a god would, by necessity, mean that all people would be amoral. By implication, the notion that a person could adhere to a moral code without the threat of divine retribution was considered ludicrous. I do not believe this to be correct. I have a very well defined moral code of my own, and it does not require any sort of supernatural involvement in order for me to follow it. I do so of my own free will, not because I am inherently a sweet and caring person, but because I believe it both to be in my best social interest, and more importantly, because it makes me feel better inside to do so.

[bacca]

I believe the point was that rules and regulations do not have to be handed down by a god in order for a society to follow them.  I don't think LarryOldTimer would ever suggest that people are all inherently warm and fuzzy inside and would happily live together in harmony.

Insight's comment made the assumption that the only source of morality is a god, and that the exclusion of a god would, by necessity, mean that all people would be amoral.  By implication, the notion that a person could adhere to a moral code without the threat of divine retribution was considered ludicrous.  I do not believe this to be correct.  I have a very well defined moral code of my own, and it does not require any sort of supernatural involvement in order for me to follow it.  I do so of my own free will, not because I am inherently a sweet and caring person, but because I believe it both to be in my best social interest, and more importantly, because it makes me feel better inside to do so.

775254[/snapback]

very well put

I personally feel that it is better to be good of your own mind and will then to gain the favor of a god....Although I could be wrong

[WongFeiHung]

I am just voicing my belief and giving a logiccal answer as to why I do believe in them. I know that no one will change their belief s based on what I have to say here and jsut as the word of god is preeched, so am I preeching the word of WongFeiHung.

[Me_Again]

So you like to preach, huh God is not made up, it is made down And we are all part of it, like it or not. The choice is yours become godlike or don't...and watch out for KARMA Next time around you may become what you despise

[Doctor_Strangelove]

I can see you are a logical person. But however, I will put it this way: I couldn't care less what you say about my religion. One person's opinion won't change my beliefs.

There I said it, I don't care.

[SpElLcAsTerhottIe]

hey im nicole and i understand where your commin from sayin hes fake an everythin but i think your wrong completly and why would you tell people that hes fake its not like theyll bleive you in the first place but look im not trin to get you mad im jsut sayin that pray helps out alot iv asked for money and to win the lottery and i have so many times and stuff like that love and sh** they all came true thanks to god

[Kat_Kloud]

This world sucks more than half of the time. LIFE sucks, most of the time. Let people believe in something. Who cares if it's a god, nature itself, faeries, cat goddesses, or wtfever. Let people believe. We need it.

End of story.

Personally, as long as the belief doesn't disrespect other beliefs or harm anyone, let it be.

[WongFeiHung]

A rule of thumb: you can tell when a new member is ticked off when he doesn't respond to any of the replies to his post.

774581[/snapback]

I am sorry i didn't reply, I didn't get on until mid day today and this thing is HHHUUUGGGEEE!!!!! I don't know what to respond to because there are like 50 different arguments goig on at once!!! wow this is awesome!!! 8o)

edit: as you can see i don't know how to quote!!!

Edited August 6, 2005 by WongFeiHung

[Kat_Kloud]

lol

[Atlantis Rises]

Ok, before any of you religious people come in here and start saying how I'm going to go to hell, and turned into salt or whatever, read this WHOLE thing.

(Some of the things I say here may have been posted in replies to other topics)

I believe that God is completely made up. Throughout many thousands of years and civilizations all over the globe, societies have had a God or gods. This is because they have no better explanation for misunderstood things. "There was an earthquake!!! God is angry!" "Our crops grew tall this year!!! God is pleased!" "This lady woke up from a coma!!! It's a miracle, God saved her!" And so with the common belief that god controls everything we have accepted his rule and everything he does is right. "My grandma dies!!! God did that for a reason!" and so on.

The reason that civilization made God or gods was to keep everyone in line. So many more people would resist stealing and murdering if they thought they would go to hell if they did so. Everyone would be a better person if they thought they would go to heaven for it. God was created to help people stick together and prosper. And I don't think it was a bad thing! Society might not have advanced past what middle eastern poor people have now if they didn't make it, so it was a great idea to conjure that illusion up!

And isn't it convenient that there is no way of proving any of this stuff. Is there a heaven, only the dead know. Is there a god, same answer. How do I know there is a God? You just have to believe....... That last remark is what really bugs me about religion. You just have to believe. What are we believing in? are we believing the priest that there is a God? How does HE know?? He believed a different priest and here is how the telephone game starts. You start out saying "oh Ted has a funny face", and it ends up as "Green books taste like toe jam!" There is no credibility. Religion is worse! It has gone on for thousands of years!

The ancient greeks would have sworn on their lives that there were really manticores, cyclopses and chimeras, but no we know they don't exist. And the same thing happens with christians and angels. maybe they don't see them as frequently, but they believe. If there really is a god, then the bibles MUST be false. This is a quote I got off of comedy central (tv) and i think it is true while funny. I'm not sure it is really a quote though because I don't remember it word for word. "The bible says God doesn't want me to do my sister, but it also says that adam and eve created all humanity and if they had kids, there would be no one else for them to do! Someone had to bang their sister."

I might have forgotten some stuff, but I am tired and it's like midnight here so if you Christians want to attack me now, go ahead, I'm sure there is plenty of stuff in there for you to find holes in, but once you point them out to me, I WILL fill them in.

773492[/snapback]

Physcially He doesn't exist, ideally he's as real as anything can be thought up.

[+Sherapy]

Bacca Hyper Mako good posts

the morality part. I find interesting is that great problems have arisen because societies seek to change yet morals do not, Religion impedes and stops change,yet change is the nature of life,you can't create a better life by dening life!!!

for whatever reasons the God that has been created is a God with needs, somewhere someone decided God had needs and needs people to behave in a certin way and how to go about doing that, These morals are Human created contructs based on a God with needs, they are false and they aren't working , is my take ,

774219[/snapback]

It sounds like a great theory Sheri, and I'd agree with it, except for the matter of perspective. It seems to be nice and simple to say that whatever way works for you, go for it. But we know whenever we see a suicide bomber blow up a building that in practice, this theory just does not work.

Suppose (and I hope I don't offend you with this) I were to rape, torture and kill one or more of your children. I do not repent and indeed say I'd do it again if I had the opportunity. According to your philosophy there is nothing wrong with this - it is simply my chosen path, and should lead directly to God, right?

I apologize for the strong example. All the best,

775210[/snapback]

PA what took you so long on this one???The age old why we need religion and How if it wasn't for religoin people would run rampant and things would be worse if that could be possible because I think things are pretty bad as they are In large part because of religion, yes in my opinion it is because of religion now its my turn to apologize PA I was not offeneded by your example , Let me start here, PA those that rape and violate in a sexual ways have been taught that their sexuality is bad its unnatural etc so they express their sexuality in a "Unnatural way, in a way that violates others, the bible teaches sex is wrong and only to be practiced under certain circumstances etc etc etc, Religion is the standard on Moraity they are responsible for the beliefs they teach and the outcome , Make sex a beautiful loving act between two consenting adults make it natural a gift from God because the truth is in its highest expression it is The bodys way of expressing love to another we are the only ones who can enjoy this Its Beautiful, Why teach that it isn't, Anyone who tells the truth will tell you that sex is awesome and even more awesome with someone you love Religion drives it underground says its unclean , unpure and wonder why we have so many messed up sexual predators running around, I'm rambling but this is my answer , Namaste Sheri

[LarryOldtimer]

I believe the point was that rules and regulations do not have to be handed down by a god in order for a society to follow them.  I don't think LarryOldTimer would ever suggest that people are all inherently warm and fuzzy inside and would happily live together in harmony.

Insight's comment made the assumption that the only source of morality is a god, and that the exclusion of a god would, by necessity, mean that all people would be amoral.  By implication, the notion that a person could adhere to a moral code without the threat of divine retribution was considered ludicrous.  I do not believe this to be correct.  I have a very well defined moral code of my own, and it does not require any sort of supernatural involvement in order for me to follow it.  I do so of my own free will, not because I am inherently a sweet and caring person, but because I believe it both to be in my best social interest, and more importantly, because it makes me feel better inside to do so.

775254[/snapback]

Precisely what I was getting at. Moreover, I would bet that at least some of the looters and such would call themselves religious and even be churchgoers. Believing in a supposed god has not kept more than a few people in history from anti-social behavior and crime. As I recall, a good many Mafia members have been regular churchgoers, and even confessed their sins to the priest and afterwards taken communion.

Edited August 6, 2005 by LarryOldtimer

[+Sherapy]

Larry good post, If I was to tell the truth the people that I know who are "religous are the worst they judge others, lie , cheat on husbands, I've seem a so called "good christian steal, and feel okay about it. The kids that are in the most trouble are the religous kids but no one was asking me, I don't lie or cheat on my husband because you wouldn't violate another's gift of love because what you do to one you do to yourself. , I contribute to alot of humantarian projects, I care about the planet i don't take more than I need, I don't judge or get caught up in the drama of others i smile at everyone I forgive when I need to and I'm not religious,I choose to be this way I want to be a good person I'm not religious I don't need the bible to be a good person , that to me is another myth that religion teaches to ensure your needing thier church why would you need the church if you are capable yourself to do what works for the best of all. Namaste Sheri

[Putte]

Just admit that it goes both ways.

and will your church admit sexuality goes both ways?

774574[/snapback]

Irrelevant to the subject. The question was about "non-believers" assaults "believers" when they start up similar threads like this one, but with the intention of proving evolution wrong. What the church thinks about sexuality has nothing to do with that, at all.

[whoa182]

Ah, Wong my friend, you have missed a year and a half of proof that I have have shared since I came to this forum.  I'll tell you something about me.  I used to believe like you do.  "There's no God.  You can't prove it to me either."  That's called having a closed mind.  Nobody was ever going to convince me that He exists.  Then there came a time in my life when I started have trouble and my closed mind turned into an open mind.  I started looking for God.  God said in the bible that, "If you seek me, you'll find me if you seek me with all of your heart."  I was seeking God, to see if He really existed and I found Him.  Not only did I find Him personally, but I studied the scriptures.  I found beyond a doubt the existance of God in the scriptures.  See, people with a closed mind will never find God.  Never.  Open your mind a bit.  I'm not asking you to believe, but open your mind that God might exist and that you're looking to see if He does.  If you want a quick thrill, look at bible prophecy.  It's amazing.

773987[/snapback]

I was seeking god for 15 years and never seen, heard, felt a single thing to believe in god.. yet I blindly believed and prayed to something that never affecting my life whatsoever

You know what... I actually still do look for 'god'. I see that god is very unlikely but I am by no means closed minded. I will remain on the side of no god untill there is proof and its that simple. If god comes from the sky and starts talking to the world or something then I will believe. Soon as I was all grown up I could start thinking for myself. I really questioned peoples beliefs and looked into it a lot more. With rational thought I could see the ideology behind religion and what its there for.

Just because im an athiest doesnt mean I have a closed mind at all. I'm just using my brain a bit better these days...

You were able to create big events or stories in the past and get away with it. Now if a big event happens we can see if its true because of our communication and travel capabilities.

Edited August 6, 2005 by whoa182

[_hAiLO_]

I don't think you should let the stress of religion disconnect yourself from the alledged 'God' . And I don't think its a matter of 'looking' for God, but a matter of 'listening' for him. Some people say it takes faith...and it can, its gonna be hard for an Athiest to listen for the alledged 'God' . Thats why there are these 'connection' stories people like to tell that the alledged 'God' talked to them.

[bacca]

Why is it that one side has to be closed minded? If you don't believe in god your closed minded, if you do then you are......Both sides are seeing what they want. But in my opinoin the difference lies in the idea that a belief in an invisible deity is being taken as solid fact. Going on that idea then anything that someone believes in is a fact. And that just isn't right now is it? If I believe that there are gremlins living in my basement, and every night i hear movement, and have found fur and scratch marks does that mean that i have gremlins?

[aquatus1]

Of course not! The damn things are all in my car.

[_hAiLO_]

Why is it that one side has to be closed minded? If you don't believe in god your closed minded, if you do then you are......Both sides are seeing what they want.

775950[/snapback]

I think his situation is not a black-white situation, there can always be grey areas...people just don't see them. You might not believe in a God, because there is no evidence to you that there is no God, so you remain Atheist. But you will open your mind to the chance that evidence will come forward. Until then, *if* the day comes, you remain Atheist.

Of course not!  The damn things are all in my car. 

775951[/snapback]

I put them there