John Palifox Key "Proofs of my Return"

[BishopRyan]

I vote for sending the local paper or TV a e-mail. Lets see if we can get a nibble off of that.

[BishopRyan]

A start maybe. I'm not sending anything until we decide on a good place to start.

Montmorency County

Montmorency County Clerk

12265 M-32, P.O. Box 789

Atlanta, MI 49709

Phone: 989-785-8022

Fax: 989-785-8023

Genealogy Research Hours: Tuesday - Thursday, 8:30 a.m. to 12 noon and 1:00 to 4:00 p.m.

Identification Requirements: Fill out requested sheet for births.

Certified Copy/Additional: $8.00/$4.00

Other Copy Fees: n/a

Comments: Genealogists must call ahead to make sure assistance will be available. Space allows for one genealogist at one time. No children are allowed.

Births: 1881 to present. Fill out requested affidavit. Birth records are available only to the individual named on the birth record (registrant), the parents of the registrant, a legal guardian of the registrant, a legal representative of the registrant or an heir of the registrant. An heir is defined as any relative of a deceased individual. Heirs must supply the date and place of death of the registrant when requesting a copy.This policy is in accordance with MCL 333.2882.

Deaths: 1881 to present

Marriages: 1881 to present

Divorces: 1881 to present

Out-of-County Death Index: 1934 to present. Genealogists may search index to locate the county of death for a person.

Other: For additional local and state government records with potential genealogical value, see the Archival Circulars for records maintained at the State Archives.

NOTE: Please call before visiting or mailing fees to confirm hours and other specifics. This information is current to July 2002. If you find differences between the information here and the practices or holdings of the County Clerk's office, please ask the Clerk to inform the State Archives about needed revisions.

Anne Norlander, Calhoun County Clerk-Register, and Toni Fritz, the Clerk-Register's Administrative Assistant, conducted a survey of offices in 1993 in order to make this information available to the public. Calhoun County printed the 1994 Michigan County Clerks Genealogy Directory, prepared as a product of this inventory. The State Archives revised this on-line edition of the directory in 2001.

another link

http://theenchantedforest.com/Communities/...ncy_county.html

A link to all of the Michigan news papers.

http://www.usnpl.com/minews.html

let me know what you think.

Edited December 7, 2005 by BishopRyan

[2AR]

Science,

(and BishopRyan)

I found the main thread on paranormal.about.com. There are several threads actually on this, but the longest one is called, I drove out of this world for 20 minutes...

From a quick read on several of the threads, it appears to involve a revolving cast of characters based on societal archetypes. You have the reluctant hero, the heroine, the evil minions dispatched from the menacing evil force that is rarely seen. Then, there's adventure to strange lands and places, complete with exotic rituals and substances.

If, IF, there were a grain of truth to this, it would be one of the most important discoveries of all time. However, one would think that if there is an entire COUNTY or at least a community of individuals with knowledge of this Secondary Realm, that there would surely have been someone by now that slipped up and spilled the beans on the whole thing. The media should be all over this. Yet, where are they?

Where are copies or jpegs of the books that exist? Where are photos of the gnomes? Where are the rinds or seeds of the fruit? Where is the breakout of the bizarre pathogen that must surely exist there and be foreign to our immune system? Where are the sudden accidents that occur from someone coming out of a portal and into a busy street?

The overall opinion by the forum on .about is that it's a hoax. There's no physical proof that any of this exists. No evidence other than heresay.

What do you honestly make of it?

-2AR

[BishopRyan]

I make a hoax out of it but I'd like to prove that. Usually a hoax has some kind of motive and a organized flow of B.S.

This is some random stuff spaning a few years with no cohesivness. That what has me baffled.

[2AR]

This is some random stuff spaning a few years with no cohesivness. That what has me baffled.

Had you heard of it prior to it's mention here in November? had you seen it on other websites, or did you frequent the .about site?

Science 101, what of you? Had you frequented the .about site prior to posting about this here?

-2AR

[vertigoflow]

This is some random stuff spaning a few years with no cohesivness.

The only cohesivness I've seen is that "Joey" seems to take on the glorified role hero. if this is a hoax he would be my suspect.

Had you heard of it prior to it's mention here in November? had you seen it on other websites, or did you frequent the .about site?

I keep getting this nagging feeling that I've seen something about this somewhere other than on the internet but I can't remember exactly where. I have tons (probably literally, but I haven't weighed them) of books. Between my currnent inventory and the many that've passed in and out of my collection it seems impossible to trace down the reference.

Still, it seems highly unlikely that there is such a lack of information existing outside of the internet about this subject unless there is some kind of massive suppression conspiracy (which is just to silly of an idea to seriously entertain) ... isn't it?

[2AR]

I keep getting this nagging feeling that I've seen something about this somewhere other than on the internet but I can't remember exactly where. I have tons (probably literally, but I haven't weighed them) of books. Between my currnent inventory and the many that've passed in and out of my collection it seems impossible to trace down the reference.

You're correct. This IS similar to something that has been discussed in the "Real World". Ong's Hat.

Similar, but not precisely the same.

-2AR

[vertigoflow]

You're correct. This IS similar to something that has been discussed in the "Real World". Ong's Hat.

Similar, but not precisely the same.

-2AR

No, that's definatly not it. (Though, i had a feeling this would come around to alternate reality games at some point, since that's what "Ong's Hat" is rather than being real world stuff).

I kinda/sorta remember seeing a reference to John Palifox and his book specifically mentioned in another book published before the internet. But, i'll admit there is a very good chance I could be mistaken about it.

[BishopRyan]

I never heard of this until this thread and no I haven't read any about.com anything I just sent them a e-mail asking for answers. Link it up.

Which paper should I send a e-mail or letter to? Or does anyone have any other ideas.

Whats ong's hat just another dead end story.

Edited December 7, 2005 by BishopRyan

[vertigoflow]

Whats ong's hat just another dead end story.

Depending on how you look at it, Ong's hat was either

a Discordian prank,

or

one of the first alternate reality games

or

a group of hippies experimenting with dimensional travel.

[BishopRyan]

Oh no another story I read abit about it wow intresting. Does this story have a ending or is it same story different names.

[2AR]

Oh no another story I read abit about it wow intresting. Does this story have a ending or is it same story different names.

The stories are different, but similar.

Differences: Method of travel, reason for travel, experiences on the other side, creatures encountered

Similarities: Knowledge is hidden in legends and arcane books, government supression, unique clique that knows what's really going on, process of initiation into the clique, tests for membership

At least, that's from what I've read so far.

Again, haven't been at this for very long, so my conclusions are a bit hastily drawn.

[science101]

2AR:

To answer your question - yes, I frequented about.com a lot before I found this site. Conveying many of the accounts & stories from that site and sharing them here to see if anyone on UM had similiar experiences. Much to my chagrin, no one associated with UM has ever heard of John Palifox Key or his manuscript.

Unlike many, I am not surprise that the information about these portals (if they truly exists) are being suppressed. If it was a hoax, why would someone go to great lengths to send members on about.com menancing/threatning emails? Why would about.com tell inquirers that the subject matter is non-existent on their website?

Either way you look at it, things don't add up.

To me, behind every made up story or hoax, lies a shred of truth. We know for a fact that JPK's manuscript exist. Why? Because Aproz has a copy of a copy. Furthermore, Aproz explained in his earlier post that his manuscript comes contained with ley lines, words written in latin, etc. His story coincides with many of the accounts I read. I would love to see him scan at least a page of that book so that we can see for ourselves that this book truly exists, but I highly doubt he will devulge that info.

On one hand, there is so much info on the subject, but on the other hand the info remains very much a secret. Strange?

Edited December 8, 2005 by science101

[science101]

BishopRyan:

I think Montmorency County Records, local newspapers, etc are excellent starts. However, I am not convinced that we will get the answers we seek.

After you posted potential avenues to search, I even thought about the Chamber of Commerce. However, they probably wouldn't devulge any information on the subject either.

I really wish we had a UM member residing in upper Michigan who could possibly explore, asks around to see if the rumors are true.

The way I see it, all other avenues will be fruitless. The only way we will get answers if someone decided to take a personal trip to the area to determine its legitmacy. Without that, I guess the portals, and the events surrounding the portals, are just heresay!

Edited December 8, 2005 by science101

[Aproz]

2AR:

To answer your question - yes, I frequented about.com a lot before I found this site. Conveying many of the accounts & stories from that site and sharing them here to see if anyone on UM had similiar experiences. Much to my chagrin, no one associated with UM has ever heard of John Palifox Key or his manuscript.

Unlike many, I am not surprise that the information about these portals (if they truly exists) are being suppressed. If it was a hoax, why would someone go to great lengths to send members on about.com menancing/threatning emails? Why would about.com tell inquirers that the subject matter is non-existent on their website?

Either way you look at it, things don't add up.

To me, behind every made up story or hoax, lies a shred of truth. We know for a fact that JPK's manuscript exist. Why? Because Aproz has a copy of a copy. Furthermore, Aproz explained in his earlier post that his manuscript comes contained with ley lines, words written in latin, etc. His story coincides with many of the accounts I read. I would love to see him scan at least a page of that book so that we can see for ourselves that this book truly exists, but I highly doubt he will devulge that info.

On one hand, there is so much info on the subject, but on the other hand the info remains very much a secret. Strange?

We were not trying to be secretive---just offline for a few days. We have now caught up with this discussion. Sorry to disappoint, but we ourselves (my wife and I and a fellow researcher) do not have much more new to offer. We keep an eye on Joey's forum, the address of which we posted somewhere above (ask if you can't find it), and we keep an eye on several other forums---none of which have much new.

We promised far and wide to share any new information that might arise in exchange for anything new that someone else has found. We will keep this promise, but for now there is not much new. On proxy.whore.com, there is an ongoing discussion which combines all the elements which we have come across for the last 5 years: Pattern Trolls, Informants, Aztlan, Micronations, Clipperton, Montmorency, JPK, Joey..Joey...Joey...and more Joey, Diane Decay, Ancient Immortals, and a whole host of unidentified persons who all----as ever-----are saying the same things as on the many other forums. Everyone now has read Paula Denail's blog document (aspyre.net/pauladenail) which seems to be like an ultimate source document for the combined mysteries. That thing is about two years out of date. Guess the "comments" are one of the most interesting parts.

Couple of little things: Recently there has been a lot of online commotion from someone who logs in as Mireille on semicirclemystery.blogspot.com on the thread dealing with the account of the boys who "live forever," a story whose origin we have never been able to find. If you read Mireille, you discover that she is most upset because some unidentified person correctly gave the family name of the two boys the story is about. It really seems to have shaken her up, but no one came back with any pertinent information. Mireille, like us, has no idea what this website is really about, and no one there seems ready to enlighten her. There is some shady character called Thomas Grey keeps popping up. It would appear that he is an Ancient Immortal, as they are called. This is very much a "Joey theme." But, all in all, not much enlightenment there.

We saw where you keep asking us to scan a page or two of the copied copy of JPK's manuscript, which we possess. We repeat that it is unscannable. We have already tried. In fact, we went to Kinko's just for that purpose. The thing must have been copied in the dark ages. It is totally black on each page, and the details just come off in a lighter shade of dark. Unscannable.

Paula's blog and other places became a common place to discuss the mysteries of John Palifox Key, The Secondary Alternate Realm, and Ancient Immortals a couple of years back. Now there is this small detail. Key, who apparently travelled there quite often, calls the parallel world the "Secondary Alternate Realm" over and over again. It would seem that back in 1961, Key invented this term to describe what he had found in his explorations. Now on Paula's blog, there are unidentifiable posters who began once to use a short-hand form for this realm's name: 2AR. I believe that can also be seen on other boards too.

So the question comes up naturally, where did 2AR choose his screen name? Does he have a longer duration with this mystery than his posts seem to suggest?

One thing is for sure in this mystery, and they are talking about it on Proxy-Whore, and that is that much information online about JPK and related topics has been systematically blocked and deleted over the past 5 years. A simple search on John Palifox Key used to yield many more results than it does not. As we said above in another post a few days ago, it is very useful to abandon Google for other search engines, but even these fail now to yield websites and discussions that were active as little as two months ago.

We do plan to stay in contact, and our e/mail through this board does work.

Finally, has anyone ever tried posting something on Joey's forum? We are thinking about doing that right now. Going straight to the source, so to speak.

Good luck to all.

[2AR]

So the question comes up naturally, where did 2AR choose his screen name? Does he have a longer duration with this mystery than his posts seem to suggest?

Good luck to all.[/b][/i]

You know, I never thought about it as that. Secondary Alternate Realm...2AR. My bad.

Secundus Arturus Rex=2AR. King Arthur from Sir Thomas Malory's Le Morte d'Arthur. Arthur, the Once and Future King, who will come again when the world needs him. Arturus, as I recall, is latin for Arthur. Rex is king. Secundus, if I'm not mistaken, is Second.

Also, it's easy to remember, and type with one hand.

I've read Arthurian legend since I was a child. I was going with that theme.

And, regarding the copy, computer technology has come a long way since the "Dark Ages". One can easily clean up crap scans. So, unless the paper is somewhat reflective, or has a polarizing coating of some sort that blocks the light or skews it in some way, then there should be no reason that a halfway decent scanner couldn't do the job.

-2AR

[daleth]

You know, I never thought about it as that. Secondary Alternate Realm...2AR. My bad.

Secundus Arturus Rex=2AR. King Arthur from Sir Thomas Malory's Le Morte d'Arthur. Arthur, the Once and Future King, who will come again when the world needs him. Arturus, as I recall, is latin for Arthur. Rex is king. Secundus, if I'm not mistaken, is Second.

Also, it's easy to remember, and type with one hand.

I've read Arthurian legend since I was a child. I was going with that theme.

And, regarding the copy, computer technology has come a long way since the "Dark Ages". One can easily clean up crap scans. So, unless the paper is somewhat reflective, or has a polarizing coating of some sort that blocks the light or skews it in some way, then there should be no reason that a halfway decent scanner couldn't do the job.

-2AR

Hello all--

I'm both new to this forum and to the subject at hand. I find it fascinating. Quite a coincidence there with your name 2AR! But, that in itself, adds to the mystery.

Looking forward to reading more.

[BishopRyan]

Simply take a digital photo of the copy and post the pic online.

[science101]

BishopRyan:

Simply take a digital photo of the copy and post the pic online.

Are you talking about Aproz's copy of JPK's manuscript? According to Aproz, the copy he possesses is practically impossible to read; unscannable. I can't believe that a guide (manuscript) that was once so prevelant just some 30 years ago is practically non-existent now! I can see if it was an old copy of a Byzantine Bible or something, but it is not. I will continue my search scouring countless libraries until I uncover this mystery. Has anyone checked the library at Emory University?

[daleth]

BishopRyan:

Are you talking about Aproz's copy of JPK's manuscript? According to Aproz, the copy he possesses is practically impossible to read; unscannable. I can't believe that a guide (manuscript) that was once so prevelant just some 30 years ago is practically non-existent now! I can see if it was an old copy of a Byzantine Bible or something, but it is not. I will continue my search scouring countless libraries until I uncover this mystery. Has anyone checked the library at Emory University?

Unscannable perhaps, but not undigiphotoable--if that is even a word.

I, too, would love to have a real copy of this book.

On an aside: any comic book collectors here?

[BishopRyan]

Unscannable perhaps, but not undigiphotoable--if that is even a word.

I, too, would love to have a real copy of this book.

On an aside: any comic book collectors here?

A photo is poosible. Also I would like proof that the book was actually auctioned off as stated earlier.

[2AR]

A photo is poosible. Also I would like proof that the book was actually auctioned off as stated earlier.

The more I read of this, the more this is all sounding like the same, tired plot. We'll never see a copy of the book. There will be a million more reasons why and nothing will ever come up.

You and I know that there is no document that's not copyable or scannable. All it takes is a scanner, and some control over the scanner settings. Or, a program like Photoshop that will allow you to change the gamma curves in an image, and bring out details that you couldn't previously see. But, not for Proofs. This is a magic copy that won't copy any further. You won't even be able to take a digital picture of it.

Hell, I'd even be happy to see a blurred out copy of a piece of carbon paper. Anything that looks like these guys are putting half an effort into it.

-2AR

[BishopRyan]

The more I read of this, the more this is all sounding like the same, tired plot. We'll never see a copy of the book. There will be a million more reasons why and nothing will ever come up.

You and I know that there is no document that's not copyable or scannable. All it takes is a scanner, and some control over the scanner settings. Or, a program like Photoshop that will allow you to change the gamma curves in an image, and bring out details that you couldn't previously see. But, not for Proofs. This is a magic copy that won't copy any further. You won't even be able to take a digital picture of it.

Hell, I'd even be happy to see a blurred out copy of a piece of carbon paper. Anything that looks like these guys are putting half an effort into it.

-2AR

I'll probably get banned for trolling but I've spent alot of time on this forum and there is alot of junk postings about stuff with not photos no proof nothing.

[TraJikMaJik]

I'll probably get banned for trolling but I've spent alot of time on this forum and there is alot of junk postings about stuff with not photos no proof nothing.

Thanks for that enlightening post, and also, thanks for posting shots of the book.. Ohhh wait.. You just insterted a useless post also, similar to the one I am posting to you now.

[BishopRyan]

Thanks for that enlightening post, and also, thanks for posting shots of the book.. Ohhh wait.. You just insterted a useless post also, similar to the one I am posting to you now.

I think it needed to be said time and time again people post something as fact with no shread of anything to back it up. Its reasonable for me to expect that if someone posts that the book was auctioned off as fact that they need to back it up.

Its also within reason to expect a digital photo of the book if someone has a copy. All I was trying to do is get people to make a effort to back up their statements. That would make for a higher quality of research.

Do want to read all day long about how someone is sure they saw bigfoot and wow it was hairy and big. What do you guys think.

That kind of post is worthless without video or pictures or samples or something. You end up with a cluttered forum of boring stories and nothing gets answered.

I find this story intresting and the auction part even more intresting but I've asked a few times for proof of the auction and nothing. If he or she heard it from a friend of a friend say so and then we can take it into consideration as hearsay not a certain fact.

I'm sorry if I offended you but if your like me and would like more info about this story I would think you would want your evidence backed up so we can make accurate conclusions.

Again please no offense I'm just after more accurate reporting.

Edited December 13, 2005 by BishopRyan