John Palifox Key "Proofs of my Return"

[vertigoflow]

I found your information quite interesting and it lends some reasoning as to my brothers encounter about 10 years ago with "little people". He was somewhere in the Boston area out by a lake, camping, in an area you can only get to by boat. He told me the story last Christmas and I was fascinated with it ever since. I read about the other dimensions but only in a spiritual sense rather than a physical sense. These things did not fit any description I could find. The closest thing in possibly Menehunes. He did not visit this place you speak of but rather I think a couple of them visited here. I do hope we are able to actually document this stuff. Why has no one gone in there and documented it? With all our new technology surely someone can do that. Curious.

I would love to know exactly where this happened. I'm pretty close to Boston and am itching to investigate some of these areas.

[taustin]

I would love to know exactly where this happened. I'm pretty close to Boston and am itching to investigate some of these areas.

Well, I called my brother when I saw your interest and he called me right back, which was unusual. He is not usually home much. This was about 11 or 12 years ago now. When my neice was just born. He lived in Boston and drove to Vermont, Grout Pond to be exact to do some camping with his wife and new baby. This is a State Park and actually not a pond, but rather a fairly large lake. Chilling story really and what is most odd is that what precipitated him telling me was an Unexplained Mysteries story recapping a very similar story in a similar area of Vermont. I have not been able to find the story again (although we watched it together that night and he told me his story) and no one seemed interested or had any additional information when I told it (in this forum) right after I heard it from my brother last Christmas. In the other peoples story (Unsolv myst) they are camping and in a boat and the globe of light things happened but they are missing time etc. My brother is not. When I was talking to him on the phone just now it gave him chills because he was the most scared he has ever been in his life.

I suppose you should really hear the story so you can have an idea of what I am talking about. This was also before digital cameras and the like. I had never heard anything like it. If anyone knows more about these things please comment. The only thing I figure this has to do with time and space is that I personally believe they popped in from another dimension, possibly the one we are speaking of but maybe not. I really have no idea, but I truly believe my brother.

He drove out to the lake and there are only about 5 campsites that you must get to by water. There are no trails to these sites, you must use a boat or he had a canoe. He had to make two trips so he took the gear out first and then came and got his family on the second trip. They set up camp and it was a beautiful clear night. Soon after dark he noticed a glowing globe of light, similar to the moon but brighter and larger than that and it seemed closer. His wife saw it and they remarked and then when they looked back it had moved and they both remarked that was strange and as they were looking at it again it vanished. They thought Wow, that was strange. Kinda concerning but not too scary. OK - so they have dinner and settle in and they were in the tent for the evening and it started to rain a bit so my brother tied some tarps to some trees to give some shelter outside the tent in the immediate area where you would wipe your feet etc. The ground was somewhat sandy and wet. His daughter fell asleep and it was about 10:30 or so and he and his wife heard this crazy sound like two loud crazy voices yelling "Wahooooooooo!!!!!!" in alternates. He thought that was strange and had some concern and listened further and he could hear what he thought was two beings coming, VERY quickly from opposite directions heading directly for his area. I know that is crazy but it was quiet except for all this commotion in the woods, that is all he could hear. There again are no trails so this was cause for concern with my brother. As they got closer he got scared and got out his gun (he is a hunter) and sat there as he listened to them coming closer (from their wahoos) and as soon as it seemed they were right on top of them....there was nothing....no sound.....and then he heard the string on his tarp "twang" and felt it move. He immediately yelled, "I got a gun and I'm not afraid to use it!" and nothing. He heard absolutely nothing, no branches breaking, no sound at all of them leaving. A few seconds/minutes later he (time is irrelevant at this point) came out of the tent and sent out a shotgun shot in the air and yelled, "get the hell out of here!". His wife was freaked out and he was totally freaked out. He sat there, in his tent, awake with the gun in his hands until morning and then got the hell out of there. But that is not the best part.

The best part and the weirdest part is what happened when he came out of his tent in the morning. It had rained during the night but not enough to erase the footprints. At dawn when he came out he looked around the tent to check on things and he saw hundreds of tiny little footprints all over the area, I mean everywhere in every direction - just crazy everywhere around the tent. He described them like childrens footprints actually, those are his words. He didn't tell his wife and instead tried to cover them up with his own before she came out. He didn't want to freak her out even more with the new baby and all. He is not really "into" the paranormal.

He packed up and took the family back first to the car and the thing about this lake is that is is kind of dog eared and after he dropped off the family they got in the car and sat there and as my brother was getting ready to go back to get the gear a park ranger drove up. My brother immediately told him "hey man, look there is some weird sh** going on over there - we were going to camp but" - then tells the guy the story about the light and the "things" whatever, and the guy, throughout the entire, unbelievable story would not look at my freakin' brother - instead my brother said he was really weird and just walked to the edge and stared out at the lake, kind of in a weird trance or something, out toward the area my brother came from - just non-responsive. He did not say ONE WORD to my brother or even acknowledge him. My brother did not have time to mess around with him so he got back in the boat and went back for the gear. On this lake you have to go around the corner and you loose site of the vehicle from the campsite so that kind of concerned my brother and he told his wife to lock the door and if he (weird park ranger guy) comes near just take off, he will catch up later. OK - so he gets in the boat and paddles out and is watching the guy just stare out after him - my brothers wife told him that the park ranger guy waited for my brother to start coming back and as soon as he appeared around the corner on the way back, he got in his truck and just left.

That is it. My brother came back to the car and they took off, totally weirded out. It freaked their freakin freak. Needless to say they never went back.

Goodluck. I would love to know where these things came from. I didn't get the feeling of aliens (in the classic sense) and either did my brother although it is difficult to explain and they did not sound "of this world" according to my brother. The sound they made was not like a human being though. I do not hear many stories like this, if any, even in these crazy forums. If anyone has an explanation I would love to hear it.

[dani10]

Omg I would dieeeee!!

There's nothing scarier than little people acting mean!

[taustin]

Omg I would dieeeee!!

There's nothing scarier than little people acting mean!

Well, FYI, I do not think they were being "mean". It was just scary and intense and unexplainable for my brother.

[2AR]

...Goodluck. I would love to know where these things came from. I didn't get the feeling of aliens (in the classic sense) and either did my brother although it is difficult to explain and they did not sound "of this world" according to my brother. The sound they made was not like a human being though. I do not hear many stories like this, if any, even in these crazy forums. If anyone has an explanation I would love to hear it.

Interesting. Very interesting.

A few things that I'm not clear on and would like some clarification of if you don't mind.

First, you indicated that your brother, a hunter, covered the tracks in the morning, and that he did so to avoid "freaking his wife out." Did he cover the tracks or destroy the tracks? Also, did he have any other observation about the tracks other than that they looked like childrens? Could he tell if they were humanoid, were they wearing shoes, could he see toes, etc.?

Your brother is a hunter, and, depending on what he hunts, should be somewhat versed in woodcraft, meaning movement and survival in the woods, knowing how to walk, where to walk, how to move to avoid detection. Hunters, from my experience, arrive at their sites before dawn, and begin stalking their quarry in the dark, or moving into their position before the sky even hints at being light. Fairly good hunters are adept at moving stealthily in the night, especially a rainy night where the sound of footsteps can be deadened in the soft earth and lost among the patter of the falling drops. (This will come across as extremely critical, and being a strangers on the net, will come across as even more so. I mean no offense or criticism.) Why did your brother freak out? An armed, skilled hunter, husband, and father, who's family is perceived as threatened, should instead shift into predatory mode. Dangerous? Perhaps. But, how dangerous is it to announce to unknown assailants that you are indeed inside your tent, the flimsy tent which can be fired upon, slashed, poked though with a knife, spear, sword, arrow, etc. with ease, leaving the person inside firing blind? Rather than retreat to the tent, should the hunter rather have doused lights and slipped out into the night to be with his "prey"? (On sandy, loamy soil, on a moonless and rainy night, you'd never hear me coming. ) Again, yes, this was critical, but, I'm seriously trying to understand what actually happened here.

He obviously is versed enough in woodcraft to be able to discern between what is natural and what is unnatural at night in the woods. He's also concerned about his wife's mental state, and was acting to protect her physical state as well. All very commendable actions. I question his apparent "freaking out" in a situation. I'm not saying that he should have been cold and calculating, but, in a flight or fight scenario where your back is truly to the wall, "fight" has to win by process of elimination.

Regarding what the creatures were, without a visual, and with just the heard "wahoos", it's difficult to say.

My research into the phenomena described in this thread lead me to believe that they are unrelated. The gnomes from Key's realm for the most part seem lethargic, silent, dull, and indifferent to humans at all. Except for one instance described by "Paula", the gnomes took no notice of us our our realm, and were only focused on their duties of smashing orange triangular fruits.

On the other hand, I seem to recall stories passed along by Native Americans regarding little people who protect certain areas or certain tribes. I'll look into that more, if you like, and see if there's anything up in that area.

Again, no ill will is intended here , and I apologize for as harsh as this came across.

-2AR

Edited December 30, 2005 by 2AR

[science101]

taustin:

I will have to admit - that is one interesting story! If I were in your brother's predicament, it is really hard to say if I would have responded any differently. Hindsight is 20/20. If anything, your brother responded to the incident like a true MAN!

Just the mere thought of people, entities, beings rapidly approaching my tent in the middle of the night is very alarming. The wahooo sound would have only compounded things!

Despite the fact that I don't see a direct correlation to the events JPK and some others may have encountered, still your brother's harrowing experience is one heck of a story!

Do you have any pictures of this area?

Edited December 29, 2005 by science101

[2AR]

Taustin,

I've done some research on this, and discovered the following (taken from a page on ihawaii.net):

"Back in the 1950s there was a book written by an author named Edmond Wilson called 'Apologies to the Iroquois', which explained some of the myths and legends of the Iroquois [2AR: The Iroquois were active in New England, if I remember correctly) concerning these little beings. In that book, Mr Wilson talks about the existence of at least two tribes of these little creatures who live among the Iroquois, namely with the Tuscaroras of the New York State. The book talks about the tribe of Healers and Tricksters. Apparently the Healer tribe can do some super marvellous things for a person who may be stricken or inflicted with some kind of physical ailment, sickness or such things as open flesh wounds, skin disorders or other visible bodily malfunctions...

...On the other hand, the tribe of Tricksters do their thing by playing pranks and tricks on people. They would often do their tricks in the middle of the night just to make a person's hair stand on end. Little tricks like thumping on the side of your camp or canoe, [emphasis added by 2AR] braiding horse manes, tying up clothes on the clothes line, or a stone thrown into the still waters where you are quietly fishing might be the types of tricks the Tricksters would play on people. Little games such as these would be the harmless variety of mischievous activities that could be expected of the Tricksters...

...Among the Maliseet people, the Geow-lud-mo-sis-eg are often seen beside or near water places like river banks, marshy grounds, brooksides or lakeshores. [emphasis added by 2AR]"

Given the location, the timing of the incident, and the nature of the incident, you may have your culprit.

-2AR

[2AR]

Do you have any pictures of this area?

Agree. pics would be great.

-2AR

[Tranchons]

Interesting. Very interesting.

A few things that I'm not clear on and would like some clarification of if you don't mind.

First, you indicated that your brother, a hunter, covered the tracks in the morning, and that he did so to avoid "freaking his wife out." Did he cover the tracks or destroy the tracks? Also, did he have any other observation about the tracks other than that they looked like childrens? Could he tell if they were humanoid, were they wearing shoes, could he see toes, etc.?

Your brother is a hunter, and, depending on what he hunts, should be somewhat versed in woodcraft, meaning movement and survival in the woods, knowing how to walk, where to walk, how to move to avoid detection. Hunters, from my experience, arrive at their sites before dawn, and begin stalking their quarry in the dark, or moving into their position before the sky even hints at being light. Fairly good hunters are adept at moving stealthily in the night, expecially a rainy night where the sound of footsteps can be deadened in the soft earth and lost among the patter of the falling drops. (This will come across as extremely critical, and being a strangers on the net, will come across as even more so. I mean no offense or criticism.) Why did your brother freak out? An armed, skilled hunter, husband, and father, who's family is perceived as threatened, should instead shift into predatory mode. Dangerous? Perhaps. But, how dangerous is it to announce to unknown assailants that you are indeed inside your tent, the flimsy tent which can be fired upon, slashed, poked though with a knife, spear, sword, arrow, etc. with ease, leaving the person inside firing blind? Rather than retreat to the tent, should the hunter rather have doused lights and slipped out into the night to be with his "prey"? (On sandy, loamy soil, on a moonless and rainy night, you'd never hear me coming. ) Again, yes, this was critical, but, I'm seriously trying to understand what actually happened here.

He obviously is versed enough in woodcraft to be able to discern between what is natural and what is unnatural at night in the woods. He's also concerned about his wife's mental state, and was acting to protect her physical state as well. All very commendable actions. I question his apparent "freaking out" in a situation. I'm not saying that he should have been cold and calculating, but, in a flight or fight scenario where your back is truly to the wall, "fight" has to win by process of elimination.

Regarding what the creatures were, without a visual, and with just the heard "wahoos", it's difficult to say.

My research into the phenomena described in this thread lead me to believe that they are unrelated. The gnomes from Key's realm for the most part seem lethargic, silent, dull, and indifferent to humans at all. Except for one instance described by "Paula", the gnomes took no notice of us our our realm, and were only focused on their duties of smashing orange triangular fruits.

On the other hand, I seem to recall stories passed along by Native Americans regarding little people who protect certain areas or certain tribes. I'll look into that more, if you like, and see if there's anything up in that area.

Again, no ill will is intended here , and I apologize for as harsh as this came across.

-2AR

I finally got around to registering for this board after following this discussion for a few weeks. I was always very interested in the John Palifox Key hoax. I say hoax because it appears to be a very clever web-hoax that has been going on for some years how. The perpetrators do not seem very aggressive about it. When you google JPK (full name) a lot of strange sites come up, but I registered for this one because of 2ARs' sensible approach to the Indian/camping story. I've come to agree with a lot of what 2AR says. Pictures would always be welcome too if we are going to learn something at all from any of this.

I'll put in my two cents worth. After I read Paula Denail's journal a few years back (www.aspyre.net/pauladenail), I went out looking for a copy of Proofs of My Return by John Palifox Key. I live in the Washington D.C. area and many of the episodes Paula describes take place in southern Delaware and coastal Maryland, which is not a long drive for me if I had decided to do some exploring. But first I wanted to see the book. A bookstore which used to be on F Street but which is no longer there showed me a listing for Key's book in a tableau of very old and rare manuscrips. Key's book was listed as out of print, but a dealer in Savannah, Georgia had several copies which he was selling for around one thousand dollars each, which was far more than I cared to pay. The manager of the F Street bookstore said that a customer had just ordered one and had paid cash and that he had personally handed the edition over to him when it arrived from the fellow dealer in Savannah. This guy was dead serious and not kidding, so I know that the book must exist somewhere. I just didn't have $1000 to pay for it.

Paula's blog really gripped me for a time. It seems so real, so everyday. She does totally incredible things and just talks about them like they are nothing. I don't think there is anything like it anywhere on the web. As someone already said, you have to sift through the tedious Joey material and her hero worship, but the basics are there for an incredible saga.

One small confirmation I received about Paula's material was from a friend of mine who lives in the town of Frankford in Sussex County, Delaware, where Joey is supposed to be from (Paula too). My friend is over 60 and retired and a pretty "straight thinker," but he said something that Paula touches on. Namely that parts of Sussex County, Delaware have a sort of haunted and strange reputation. Now this came from a retired financial planner who depended on his seriousness to get customers when he had a business. Butter wouldn't melt in this man's mouth, but he told me that the Pocomoke or Great Cypress Swamp in his area around Frankford was a place of some mystery and that the locals in that area have many stories about dogs, cars and even children disappearing into that swamp. He said areas of the swamp were blocked off from exploration by the local authorities. I had planned to go see this before my mother took ill and I had to cancel my plans, but I wanted to add what a local resident said to me about it.

I have read here and there on the net about Joey, Paula, Diane and their "band" of portal explorers and I have tried to sift out the hoaxy nonsense (ancient immortals, alien children, Clipperton, French connections of all sorts) from the parts that I think are sane and real. I think the majority of what is written in Paula's blog actually did happen as she claims it did. I wonder if she ever saw a "sentient lizard" being held captive in Brittany, France, however. Paula does not seem like one who would add to an already good story that way. Joey does, however. He comes across like a real scamster and wannabe adventurer. The part in the blog about how he returned from France on a cattle carrier seems totally unreal to me. This is just one example. As soon as Joey returns, the blog goes totally sour and eventually discontinues.

I think that a group of hoaxers got ahold of Paula's journal along the way and used the information to build up a hoax-saga of their own making. Like Ong's Hat, it just gets crazier and crazier as it goes along, but the basic details are confirmable and real.

2AR, who makes sense to me, mentions the unremarkable nature of Paula's gnomes in the other dimensional realm. This part always makes me think that there is truth here. She presents, as 2AR says, gnomes which are dull and interested only in beating on those funny vegetables and not at all in playing tricks or scaring people away from their realm.

This is the believable part for me. When I read a story like the one from the guy near

Boston, which is honest-sounding and well told, I see those "spooky" details that would make good a film or reading. This always puts me off a bit. No offense to that poster but a scary story always gets more attention. With Paula and Joey it is always just a ho-hum the realm is there and has always been there approach. Nothing flashy or spooky, or at least not on the surface.

So I know the book exists (for a thousand bucks!!!!) and I know that when Paula talks about her strange goings-on in the "Nanticoke Triangle" she is talking about a view that many there share.

That's where I stand with all this. Sorry for the long response. I've been holding off for a while.

Edited December 30, 2005 by Tranchons

[2AR]

...I went out looking for a copy of Proofs of My Return by John Palifox Key. I live in the Washington D.C. area ...But first I wanted to see the book. A bookstore which used to be on F Street but which is no longer there showed me a listing for Key's book in a tableau of very old and rare manuscrips. Key's book was listed as out of print, but a dealer in Savannah, Georgia had several copies which he was selling for around one thousand dollars each, which was far more than I cared to pay. The manager of the F Street bookstore said that a customer had just ordered one and had paid cash and that he had personally handed the edition over to him when it arrived from the fellow dealer in Savannah. This guy was dead serious and not kidding, so I know that the book must exist somewhere. I just didn't have $1000 to pay for it.

Tranchons,

As pleased as I am that someone feels that I make sense, I have to point something out to you: You're sounding like one of them.

You're making all the same verbal assurances that the book is real. You've even seen it in a tableau or catalog of rare and out of print books. You had someone tell you they sold it. You had a chance to buy it but not the means. But, like Paula, Joey, Grantly, Tim Mistral, et al, you're not giving any specifics.

-What's the name of the book store on F Street that's no longer there?

-What was the name of the tableau or catalog?

-What's the name of the dealer in Savanah, Georgia?

Something like this, something that you've been searching into for "years", these are details one should remember, or at least get close to remembering accurately.

If you post them, great. We can begin our search in earnest. If there's no response, no specifics...well, I leave that for others to decide what to make of you.

Notice: When Aproz's bluff was called about taking even a picture, or scanning a page, he disappeared. How convenient. (Saying that just to point out that he's gone silent. Not to imply that you'll do the same. I hope you DO reply, and that you DO have the answers and we can finally see this blasted book. Honestly, I do.)

-2AR

Edited December 30, 2005 by 2AR

[BishopRyan]

I will happily fork over upwards of 2500.00 for the book. Flat out I don't think it exists. But I want to see a pic of it first then I'll fly anywhere and pay cash in person upon putting my hands on it. I will involve a third party in securing the manuscript and verifying its legitamacy then I'll fly in and make the purchase. As is with no warranty of course.

[vertigoflow]

To add to the info on Native American trickster spirits, sometimes they are called: Mannegishi. They are human-like things except that they have no hair, they had large eyes and head, with the rest of their bodies being quite small.

The Cree and Crow tribes of northeastern america and canada considered them some kind of nature-spirit that would play pranks on people and leave strange markings. many websites note a similarity between the description of the Mannegishi and the Dover Demon, spotted briefly in Dover, Massachusetts in the 70's.

I'm glad to see this thread is still alive.

Edited December 30, 2005 by vertigoflow

[science101]

2AR:

What's the name of the book store on F Street that's no longer there?

-What was the name of the tableau or catalog?

-What's the name of the dealer in Savanah, Georgia?

I would like answers to these questions also. Just like BishopRyan, I will also shell out a couple of thousand for an authentic copy JPK's manuscript. Do you think your question will ever be answered? Highly doubtful egh......

Based on the information Tranchons was willing to share, I do believe his intentions are sincere. However, I thought Aproz was sincere in his intentions as well. It would be nice if one person can come forth with actual names or bookstores that possess the manuscript. I still have faith that someone will reveal some information that will debunk any notion of a hoax.

[Tranchons]

Tranchons,

As pleased as I am that someone feels that I make sense, I have to point something out to you: You're sounding like one of them.

You're making all the same verbal assurances that the book is real. You've even seen it in a tableau or catalog of rare and out of print books. You had someone tell you they sold it. You had a chance to buy it but not the means. But, like Paula, Joey, Grantly, Tim Mistral, et al, you're not giving any specifics.

-What's the name of the book store on F Street that's no longer there?

-What was the name of the tableau or catalog?

-What's the name of the dealer in Savanah, Georgia?

Something like this, something that you've been searching into for "years", these are details one should remember, or at least get close to remembering accurately.

If you post them, great. We can begin our search in earnest. If there's no response, no specifics...well, I leave that for others to decide what to make of you.

Notice: When Aproz's bluff was called about taking even a picture, or scanning a page, he disappeared. How convenient. (Saying that just to point out that he's gone silent. Not to imply that you'll do the same. I hope you DO reply, and that you DO have the answers and we can finally see this blasted book. Honestly, I do.)

-2AR

I wrote out a long reply to you, and it disappeared. Damn! Maybe it is for the better. I'll have to summarize and keep this one shorter. It will be easier reading for you, lol.

I said that it made me laugh to think that you thought I was one of them. It made me laugh because for a time when I was reading Paula's blog I started to think so myself. It was like being there with her. I am a female myself, but I never got into all the Joey stuff. I don't care how handsome or special he was.

I was only interested in the portal business because where I grew up in West Virginia, there was a place called The Vortex, a swampy place where people disappeared and gnome like creatures (called muffies by the locals ) appeared or so they said. These were guarded by reptiles, and I heard about this as a child long before reading Paula's blog. My parents both worked for the Dept of Agriculture and they wrote the whole thing off as superstitious nonsense, but still the stories of disappearances and muffie sightings persisted among my classmates. I met one years later in Wheeling just on the street and he said that he had personally seen a squatted over muffie and a lizard standing by its side.

I NEVER REPEAT NEVER saw any of this myself. Just heard it on an almost daily basis from my classmates.

As for the F-Street bookstore, it had the word "Melody" somewhere in its name and was torn down a few years back with a row of old stores to make room for a high rise hotel. I could get the name and address of the hotel if you want, but I doubt they would be of much help. That was a vacant lot hole in the ground for a long time before they built the hotel.

As for the bookseller in Savannah, I never got his name. The F-Street guy would not give it to me because he wanted his finder's fee for the book, just as he had no doubt gotten from the customer before me who ordered one. The catalogue itself was just something the old guy pulled out from his desk. It was tattered and bent and listed maybe 100 rare books and where to find them. He had pencil written notes all over the thing too. He did not hand it to me. He just found a copy of the book in Savannah and told me the price and that he could order it if I had the money. I remember he was also willing to take a credit card, but I just didn't want to spend that much. I'm a low salary government employee, lol.

My personal opinion is that no one called Aproz's bluff here. I've done a lot of reading about this online (mostly) and I see where people are usually unwilling to scan pages and share information. It seems to be a give and take thing. People come looking for further information, and when they don't get it, they drop off. There seems to have been a lot of bitterness about this manuscript too. People who have it don't share it and that makes others mad. I really didn't want to get into all the name calling and labelling of people as hoaxers, etc. I am just in this for the information and because of what I heard (not saw!!) as a child in WV. Pure curiosity on my part.

It always looks as if there is some kind of cover up. I read extensively on another site about this, and it looks like some people just want to keep it quiet anyway they can, and the best way is to make it all out as a hoax.

I truly believe that much of it is a hoax. But some of it, I think, is not. But that is just an unsubstantiated opinion. I got amused reading the demands of all sorts of computer and technology types who suggested scientific suggestions. They sounded just like my parents used to. Very scientific. There is always a rational explanation, etc. Probably true, though. I would never discount science because I am ignorant of it, which I am.

The whole thing looks like a tapistry woven through with various multi-colored threads. Some of these threads lead nowhere: Joey is a good example. He is not a fount of information. Rather a clever trickster, in my view.

The mystery goes on and on.

If I did have a copy of P-M-R, I really wonder if I would be writing here. I mean that honestly. It seems like something that has to be guarded, and if you have a copy or know where to find a portal, maybe you just become one of those who says nothing. Or maybe you join the forces who are trying to keep it quiet. I just don't know.

Chalk me off, therefore, as ignorant. I'm just an explorer. I take care of an aged, sick mother now and can't get out much like I used to. So I guess that makes me just an online explorer like everyone else. I remember the Joey persona saying again and again that nothing could be learned except physically on the spot, rather than from computer information sources.

I have worked for a government run arts foundation for about 20 years here in DC. Sometimes we have to track down things which actually exist, but there is no mention of them anywhere online. I have seen the web fall short more times than I can count. That much I will give to "Joey." I put his name in quotes because he may be just a construct and not a real person.

So, what next? Nothing, I suppose.

---------------Rita Denby

Postscript: I'm editing this anyway, so I may as well write this. My friend and I are planning a trip to Sussex County, Delaware (around Frankford) sometime in early spring. I want to see the Pocomoke Swamp which Joey and Paula write so much about. I have an experienced contact nearby who can show us around, and my friend is what you might call a woodsman, or at least aspires to be.

Edited December 31, 2005 by Tranchons

[daleth]

If a copy exists in an old dusty second-hand bookstore in Chicago, it's mine.

I do believe anyone can do the research and find these portals.

I'm thinking dynamic ley lines.

[2AR]

I wrote out a long reply to you, and it disappeared. Damn! Maybe it is for the better. I'll have to summarize and keep this one shorter. It will be easier reading for you, lol.

I said that it made me laugh to think that you thought I was one of them. It made me laugh because for a time when I was reading Paula's blog I started to think so myself. It was like being there with her. I am a female myself, but I never got into all the Joey stuff. I don't care how handsome or special he was.

I was only interested in the portal business because where I grew up in West Virginia, there was a place called The Vortex, a swampy place where people disappeared and gnome like creatures (called muffies by the locals ) appeared or so they said. These were guarded by reptiles, and I heard about this as a child long before reading Paula's blog. My parents both worked for the Dept of Agriculture and they wrote the whole thing off as superstitious nonsense, but still the stories of disappearances and muffie sightings persisted among my classmates. I met one years later in Wheeling just on the street and he said that he had personally seen a squatted over muffie and a lizard standing by its side.

I NEVER REPEAT NEVER saw any of this myself. Just heard it on an almost daily basis from my classmates.

As for the F-Street bookstore, it had the word "Melody" somewhere in its name and was torn down a few years back with a row of old stores to make room for a high rise hotel. I could get the name and address of the hotel if you want, but I doubt they would be of much help. That was a vacant lot hole in the ground for a long time before they built the hotel.

As for the bookseller in Savannah, I never got his name. The F-Street guy would not give it to me because he wanted his finder's fee for the book, just as he had no doubt gotten from the customer before me who ordered one. The catalogue itself was just something the old guy pulled out from his desk. It was tattered and bent and listed maybe 100 rare books and where to find them. He had pencil written notes all over the thing too. He did not hand it to me. He just found a copy of the book in Savannah and told me the price and that he could order it if I had the money. I remember he was also willing to take a credit card, but I just didn't want to spend that much. I'm a low salary government employee, lol.

My personal opinion is that no one called Aproz's bluff here. I've done a lot of reading about this online (mostly) and I see where people are usually unwilling to scan pages and share information. It seems to be a give and take thing. People come looking for further information, and when they don't get it, they drop off. There seems to have been a lot of bitterness about this manuscript too. People who have it don't share it and that makes others mad. I really didn't want to get into all the name calling and labelling of people as hoaxers, etc. I am just in this for the information and because of what I heard (not saw!!) as a child in WV. Pure curiosity on my part.

It always looks as if there is some kind of cover up. I read extensively on another site about this, and it looks like some people just want to keep it quiet anyway they can, and the best way is to make it all out as a hoax.

I truly believe that much of it is a hoax. But some of it, I think, is not. But that is just an unsubstantiated opinion. I got amused reading the demands of all sorts of computer and technology types who suggested scientific suggestions. They sounded just like my parents used to. Very scientific. There is always a rational explanation, etc. Probably true, though. I would never discount science because I am ignorant of it, which I am.

The whole thing looks like a tapistry woven through with various multi-colored threads. Some of these threads lead nowhere: Joey is a good example. He is not a fount of information. Rather a clever trickster, in my view.

The mystery goes on and on.

If I did have a copy of P-M-R, I really wonder if I would be writing here. I mean that honestly. It seems like something that has to be guarded, and if you have a copy or know where to find a portal, maybe you just become one of those who says nothing. Or maybe you join the forces who are trying to keep it quiet. I just don't know.

Chalk me off, therefore, as ignorant. I'm just an explorer. I take care of an aged, sick mother now and can't get out much like I used to. So I guess that makes me just an online explorer like everyone else. I remember the Joey persona saying again and again that nothing could be learned except physically on the spot, rather than from computer information sources.

I have worked for a government run arts foundation for about 20 years here in DC. Sometimes we have to track down things which actually exist, but there is no mention of them anywhere online. I have seen the web fall short more times than I can count. That much I will give to "Joey." I put his name in quotes because he may be just a construct and not a real person.

So, what next? Nothing, I suppose.

---------------Rita Denby

Postscript: I'm editing this anyway, so I may as well write this. My friend and I are planning a trip to Sussex County, Delaware (around Frankford) sometime in early spring. I want to see the Pocomoke Swamp which Joey and Paula write so much about. I have an experienced contact nearby who can show us around, and my friend is what you might call a woodsman, or at least aspires to be.

Perhaps I should clarify here. I did not mean to imply that I thought you were one of them, merely that you sounded like them. In that, I mean that there were several, non-qualified statements assuring us of the authenticity of the book.

Regarding the information you left here...that's a VERY good start. More concrete informtion regarding this than I've seen. And Science101, I've seen that schhpiel before regarding Gaslight Publishing, not to discredit your information. I chased it down to a dead end.

But, a book store, with "Melody" in the name, and on "F Street". That can be tracked down, and an owner can be located.

As for calling Aproz's bluff, what I meant there was that after it was pointed out to him that given today's technology, ANYTHING can be copied. Anything can be put into a computer, and hidden details teased out. I can take a document, make a really poor copy, make several generations of copies, and then still put it into a computer and be able to get SOME information out of it. Most people with the technical savy to get of a forum (MOST, not all, mind you) should be able to at least get a picture of a document online. After the facts were pointed out to Aproz, stating that it should be possible for him/her to at least post a jpeg of the book, poof! no more Aproz. When you imply directly or indirectly that someone is knowingly capable of doing more than they are currently doing, in my world, that's calling someone's bluff.

Joey? A clever trickster? I think he's someone who can spin one good tale. Let me place some emphasis here. He can spin ONE and only ONE good tale. That's about it. He's a one trick pony, a one hit wonder. He is the bait to lure the newbies into the mystery, once there, others take over.

Heidi on the other hand, she's different. I've read much of her writing these past few weeks. She's the ONLY ONE, IMO that's consistently maintained her story. She doesn't want the information out. She would prefer to see it squashed. And if you write her asking for information, she'll tell you as much as she's comfortable with, then tell you when she'll stop. That's what I've seen.

What's it all about? So far as I can tell, this started as a couple of bored individuals making up their own roleplaying game. Dropping hints here and there across the web about the book.

It's funny, re-reading all the stuff on .about regarding this tale...two of the original posters had a hard time getting this to take off. It seemed like it sputtered and died a couple times before finally catching.

Best of luck to you in this. I meant no offense in the original post, so if it did come across harsh, my apologies.

-2AR

[taustin]

Interesting. Very interesting.

A few things that I'm not clear on and would like some clarification of if you don't mind.

First, you indicated that your brother, a hunter, covered the tracks in the morning, and that he did so to avoid "freaking his wife out." Did he cover the tracks or destroy the tracks? Also, did he have any other observation about the tracks other than that they looked like childrens? Could he tell if they were humanoid, were they wearing shoes, could he see toes, etc.?

Your brother is a hunter, and, depending on what he hunts, should be somewhat versed in woodcraft, meaning movement and survival in the woods, knowing how to walk, where to walk, how to move to avoid detection. Hunters, from my experience, arrive at their sites before dawn, and begin stalking their quarry in the dark, or moving into their position before the sky even hints at being light. Fairly good hunters are adept at moving stealthily in the night, especially a rainy night where the sound of footsteps can be deadened in the soft earth and lost among the patter of the falling drops. (This will come across as extremely critical, and being a strangers on the net, will come across as even more so. I mean no offense or criticism.) Why did your brother freak out? An armed, skilled hunter, husband, and father, who's family is perceived as threatened, should instead shift into predatory mode. Dangerous? Perhaps. But, how dangerous is it to announce to unknown assailants that you are indeed inside your tent, the flimsy tent which can be fired upon, slashed, poked though with a knife, spear, sword, arrow, etc. with ease, leaving the person inside firing blind? Rather than retreat to the tent, should the hunter rather have doused lights and slipped out into the night to be with his "prey"? (On sandy, loamy soil, on a moonless and rainy night, you'd never hear me coming. ) Again, yes, this was critical, but, I'm seriously trying to understand what actually happened here.

He obviously is versed enough in woodcraft to be able to discern between what is natural and what is unnatural at night in the woods. He's also concerned about his wife's mental state, and was acting to protect her physical state as well. All very commendable actions. I question his apparent "freaking out" in a situation. I'm not saying that he should have been cold and calculating, but, in a flight or fight scenario where your back is truly to the wall, "fight" has to win by process of elimination.

Regarding what the creatures were, without a visual, and with just the heard "wahoos", it's difficult to say.

My research into the phenomena described in this thread lead me to believe that they are unrelated. The gnomes from Key's realm for the most part seem lethargic, silent, dull, and indifferent to humans at all. Except for one instance described by "Paula", the gnomes took no notice of us our our realm, and were only focused on their duties of smashing orange triangular fruits.

On the other hand, I seem to recall stories passed along by Native Americans regarding little people who protect certain areas or certain tribes. I'll look into that more, if you like, and see if there's anything up in that area.

Again, no ill will is intended here , and I apologize for as harsh as this came across.

-2AR

No ill will taken 2AR, he walked all over the tracks and they looked like children because they were bare tiny feet prints, definately human he said. That is what was particularly wierd besides the size. He was not there to hunt. He was there on holiday camping with his new baby and his wife. His baby's name is Lily and she was about 3 mo old.

lol - my brother freaked out because it was freakin weird dude, come on! lol - I am absolutely not taking offense but had you seen the look on my brothers face as he was telling me this story - he would not have believed it himself had he not experienced it. He was NOT about to leave his family in search of God knows what in the dark. Like I said they came and went, fairly quickly. I think my brother knew he did not have a chance to even come close to matching their speed. Also, what else did he have at that point? A gun and he was definately STAYING with the family. As close as possible at this point. He also did not want to hurt anyone....I mean really. Not if you do not have to. He did not know what to think. I actually am not really able to take offense in any way because I believe it to be the truth as my brother believes it to be. Honestly and sincerely. So were cool and I would love it if you have different explanations. Thanks - i have nothing even close to really exlaining these things.

[taustin]

taustin:

I will have to admit - that is one interesting story! If I were in your brother's predicament, it is really hard to say if I would have responded any differently. Hindsight is 20/20. If anything, your brother responded to the incident like a true MAN!

Just the mere thought of people, entities, beings rapidly approaching my tent in the middle of the night is very alarming. The wahooo sound would have only compounded things!

Despite the fact that I don't see a direct correlation to the events JPK and some others may have encountered, still your brother's harrowing experience is one heck of a story!

Do you have any pictures of this area?

I wish - my brother was so freaked out and is sort of a "simple guy", a man's man. He never went back and lives in N. Cal now on a river. I was fascinated. It has been about 13 years ago now and he just told me the story last December! He had no idea how fascinated I am with this stuff. We are about 10 years apart in age.

[taustin]

Taustin,

I've done some research on this, and discovered the following (taken from a page on ihawaii.net):

"Back in the 1950s there was a book written by an author named Edmond Wilson called 'Apologies to the Iroquois', which explained some of the myths and legends of the Iroquois [2AR: The Iroquois were active in New England, if I remember correctly) concerning these little beings. In that book, Mr Wilson talks about the existence of at least two tribes of these little creatures who live among the Iroquois, namely with the Tuscaroras of the New York State. The book talks about the tribe of Healers and Tricksters. Apparently the Healer tribe can do some super marvellous things for a person who may be stricken or inflicted with some kind of physical ailment, sickness or such things as open flesh wounds, skin disorders or other visible bodily malfunctions...

...On the other hand, the tribe of Tricksters do their thing by playing pranks and tricks on people. They would often do their tricks in the middle of the night just to make a person's hair stand on end. Little tricks like thumping on the side of your camp or canoe, [emphasis added by 2AR] braiding horse manes, tying up clothes on the clothes line, or a stone thrown into the still waters where you are quietly fishing might be the types of tricks the Tricksters would play on people. Little games such as these would be the harmless variety of mischievous activities that could be expected of the Tricksters...

...Among the Maliseet people, the Geow-lud-mo-sis-eg are often seen beside or near water places like river banks, marshy grounds, brooksides or lakeshores. [emphasis added by 2AR]"

Given the location, the timing of the incident, and the nature of the incident, you may have your culprit.

-2AR

Oh my God, that is totally it, wow that is a remarkable description and sounds exactly like what happened. They had an overall mischievious feel I think, in my opinion.

[taustin]

To add to the info on Native American trickster spirits, sometimes they are called: Mannegishi. They are human-like things except that they have no hair, they had large eyes and head, with the rest of their bodies being quite small.

The Cree and Crow tribes of northeastern america and canada considered them some kind of nature-spirit that would play pranks on people and leave strange markings. many websites note a similarity between the description of the Mannegishi and the Dover Demon, spotted briefly in Dover, Massachusetts in the 70's.

I'm glad to see this thread is still alive.

Interesting, very interesting, I wish my brother would have stuck around in the morning and looked for more information but he was sooooo freaked out and wanted to get the family out of there. I do not feel demonic was in their nature - I felt like they were having a grand ol time frankly hopping around the forest.

[Eloi]

Interesting, very interesting, I wish my brother would have stuck around in the morning and looked for more information but he was sooooo freaked out and wanted to get the family out of there. I do not feel demonic was in their nature - I felt like they were having a grand ol time frankly hopping around the forest.

"Oh my God, that is totally it, wow that is a remarkable description and sounds exactly like what happened. They had an overall mischievious feel I think, in my opinion."

These two remarks about summarize the general feelings surrounding this event. These entities were playing tricks on humans, braiding horse manes, etc.

Now contrast this with John Palifox Key's account of what he calls gnomes. The gnomes seem utterly oblivious to the presence of human beings and just go on working with the big fruits they are beating with sticks. Again and again Key stresses this point: The gnomes do not notice or care about us. As for the lizards, they appear to be only watchers. There is no point in Key's narrative where the lizards do anything but glance at their human observers.

If there is anything stated and re-stated in Key's manuscript it is this.

The story about the tiny Indians takes the usual stance that they do what they do because of us humans. It is, therefore, homo-centric. Key's entities exist separate from their impact on mankind and are not at all homo-centric.

All I can add after years of chasing spirits and ghosts in dark musty places is that the only truly believable encounter I ever THINK I had was in bright sunlight in a brand new office building. The rest, in my experience, was bulls***. But this one encounter got me to take immediate notice and still scares me to this day. There is a link between my ONE experience and the two stories presented on this thread. It is this: I came into the REAL physical presence of an entity which bumped me in passing and dissipated into a mirrored wall. It didn't give a damn about me either. It stared at me for one milli-second and rushed off. I WAS NOT IMPORTANT.

What is the role of the human in the Massachusetts stories? What is the role of humans in most ghost stories we hear? In cases like this, humans are there to be scared or tricked or astonished. The story doesn't work without human victims. Why braid a horse's main if there is no one to see the horse. In short, these stories revolve around the human reaction to the strange entity. Ghosts, in the classical tales, often have messages for the living. What could be as dumb as that? Come back from the grave to say "Grandma loves you" No, I don't think so. But an entity that seems lost or better PRE-OCCUPIED with something or somewhere else and just passes is more believable and less homo-centric.

THAT is what I brought out of Key's book.

And that is where I agree with those who say that ufo encounters are stagey as well. What are these so-called aliens trying to convey to the people they encounter? A whole lot of nothing I suspect, just like ghosts in spooky old buildings----not a goddamn thing to add or to say----just the woohooo stuff. All of it is based on the human observer and his "what did this mean to me" reaction. Does anyone but me see the fallacy?

Take the human reaction out of these stories and they cease to shock.

But Key's thing is different. It has no human reaction produced by its strange entities. They do not set out to impress human beings at all. There are just there and have always been there.

Edited January 5, 2006 by Eloi

[BishopRyan]

You say "That is what I brought out of Key's book"

I'm confused becuase to my knowledge no one has ever read or seen this book with definative proof so please clarify the extent of your knowledge. Thanks.

[Eloi]

You say "That is what I brought out of Key's book"

I'm confused becuase to my knowledge no one has ever read or seen this book with definative proof so please clarify the extent of your knowledge. Thanks.

Too many misspellings of common, everyday words in your post for me to take you seriously. Sorry. I only write to those who have some basic literacy. Sorry.

I have before me a copy of P/M/R. Doesn't everyone? I thought this was the basis of this text.

Learn to compose correctly, then contact me again.

I can definitely scan any amount of this you want. Easy to do. But I won't do it for dropout kids or computer geeks. Sorry.

Mention one IT thing and I'm out. Otherwise, I share. And willingly too.

[2AR]

Too many misspellings of common, everyday words in your post for me to take you seriously. Sorry. I only write to those who have some basic literacy. Sorry.

I have before me a copy of P/M/R. Doesn't everyone? I thought this was the basis of this text.

Learn to compose correctly, then contact me again.

I can definitely scan any amount of this you want. Easy to do. But I won't do it for dropout kids or computer geeks. Sorry.

Mention one IT thing and I'm out. Otherwise, I share. And willingly too.

I'm neither uneducated, nor a computer geek. I do know my way around computers and the net, though my most prized posessions are my books. I prefer to find knowledge regarding material like this in real life (meaning in libraries, book stores, antique stores, etc.) This is one book that I cannot find, however.

Please post and share. I'd love to see a scanned copy of the cover and even a page or two of the book.

-2AR

[BishopRyan]

Too many misspellings of common, everyday words in your post for me to take you seriously. Sorry. I only write to those who have some basic literacy. Sorry.

I have before me a copy of P/M/R. Doesn't everyone? I thought this was the basis of this text.

Learn to compose correctly, then contact me again.

I can definitely scan any amount of this you want. Easy to do. But I won't do it for dropout kids or computer geeks. Sorry.

Mention one IT thing and I'm out. Otherwise, I share. And willingly too.

Wow I asked and nicely for a little more info on your post. You attacked me because of spelling errors and grammer. Then because you type and spell better than me you would never stoop to my level and share your info with me because I'm a dropout and beneath you.

I am sorry I can't type and spell up to your standards. I went to Texas Tech for 3 years and yes I dropped out. So I guess that makes you better than me.

I do however work and for the year ending 2005 I made just under 50k so I think I'm doing OK for someone beneath you.

I tell you what big boy I'll give a third party my info and they can verify my existance and location then you give the same person your info they will do the same on your end. We will meet I'll read your book and then I'll hand you the title and keys to a 2001 Ford F- 150 free and clear just for getting to see your book. I'm dead serious I'd say the truck is worth about 13k on the low end. I'm willing to take a chance on you. No gimmicks.

I think you were very rude and obnoxious. Simply I don't think you have anything. Back it up prove yourself to all of us. Hey it might get you a free truck.

Edited January 5, 2006 by BishopRyan