John Palifox Key "Proofs of my Return"

[13thdescent]

Strangely, requests into the authenticity of this book can be dated back to as early as 2000 on the internet, so this topic does have a little bit of longevity as far as hoaxes are concerned. My personal experience with this topic dates back to roughly the same time when I was drawn by the allure of intrigue, magic and conspiracy to this story. I, through various channels over a period of four years, contacted those who would be known as the “key players” in the Key story and communicated with them via email.

The pattern of the emails followed the same pattern of those celebrated in the “20 minutes” thread on About. At first all participants are willing to share information and seem just as curious as those on the thread, suggesting avenues of research and even collecting information from elsewhere presenting it to new “inductees”. That will change as interest has been established and soon accusations will be made against other posts citing conspiracy on the grandest of levels. At this point those that have most strongly supported the validity of their arguments will start to withhold information. They will speak of revelations (not in the biblical sense) that they and only a select are privy too. They will offer inclusion into their “club”, but will test their applicants’ “worthiness” never truly offering the information that they will soon boast to have found. Many claims concerning their involvement in the story and how they play an integral part will be made alluding to various archaic names and personages; none of which can be verified with any kind of real tangible proof. But their claims will be argued and defended nonetheless.

This is actually a very successful process to perpetrate a hoax. They have an idea that appeals to everyone who ever thought of finding an escape, a passage to another world. The claims detail specific information which lend an air of authenticity while the perpetrators construct an elaborate mythology which enable them to cite names, places and events to corroborate their claims. Investigators are curious because of the specifics of the information and the story resonates particularly with the forum where it is presented.

I have worked in publishing for years. I have been in contact through work relations with some of the world’s more determined collectors of antique texts (yes, some of the more esoteric nature, as well). I also work closely with one of the larger publishers of arcane media and we have all come to the same conclusion.

I have been a hobbyist involved with photography and photographic restoration for years. Technology has come along way since emulsion and magnifying glasses. If the text is readable to the eye, it can be significantly improved in its readability digitally. For those of you familiar with how this applies to a similar subject, a document in the pocket of Jesse Marcel was enhanced to readability from a photograph to determine letter shapes and even reconstruct partial sentences. This letter was in the pocket of Marcel in one of the more recognizable Roswell stills.

Those of you who feel as though this subject warrants further research, by all means, come to your own conclusions. Email the parties who are most adamant about the reality of Key. Pay special attention to their grammar and phraseology. Again, use what you find to come to your own conclusions.

[BishopRyan]

I have worked in publishing for years. I have been in contact through work relations with some of the world’s more determined collectors of antique texts (yes, some of the more esoteric nature, as well). I also work closely with one of the larger publishers of arcane media and we have all come to the same conclusion.

So you basically are calling this a hoax.

Have you followed this story for a while now?

Do you have any info that helped you reach this conclusion maybe something that is overlooked here?

Good post 13th is this book highly sought after by the collectors you know or is widely accepted a hoax or is it not even reguarded as ever existing in the first place?

[BishopRyan]

Sorry ignore the second question you said back to 2000 or so.

[13thdescent]

So you basically are calling this a hoax.

Have you followed this story for a while now?

Do you have any info that helped you reach this conclusion maybe something that is overlooked here?

Good post 13th is this book highly sought after by the collectors you know or is widely accepted a hoax or is it not even reguarded as ever existing in the first place?

In email correspondence with a few of the people who were most vocal I came to the belief that several of the "identities" I had come to contact were actually the same person. There were instances where they used the same catch phrases and these phrases were not popular enough to be used amongst multiple persons in repetition. Certain words were consistently used in the same context of speech between multiple persons as well. It happened regularly enough to become more than coincidence.

[2AR]

In email correspondence with a few of the people who were most vocal I came to the belief that several of the "identities" I had come to contact were actually the same person.

If I may ask, which screen name did you use on .about?

[13thdescent]

If I may ask, which screen name did you use on .about?

I received information from .about, but I never posted on the thread.

[2AR]

I received information from .about, but I never posted on the thread.

Thanks.

I was just curious about that.

[BishopRyan]

Well unless someone shows up with some quality evidence I guess this story is dead.

[vertigoflow]

Welcome to the forum 13thdescent. Between your post and the posts from a couple of other people who've been at this for years without real progress I feel as though I've been spared a lot of time and energy. lol.

I have worked in publishing for years. I have been in contact through work relations with some of the world’s more determined collectors of antique texts (yes, some of the more esoteric nature, as well). I also work closely with one of the larger publishers of arcane media and we have all come to the same conclusion.

Maybe you could shed some light onto why some of the coolest books fall out of print and become so hard to get ahold of at a decent price. Books like the Dark Gods by Anthony Roberts & Geoff Gilbertson, or the Eighth Tower by John Keel.

[13thdescent]

Welcome to the forum 13thdescent. Between your post and the posts from a couple of other people who've been at this for years without real progress I feel as though I've been spared a lot of time and energy. lol.

Maybe you could shed some light onto why some of the coolest books fall out of print and become so hard to get ahold of at a decent price. Books like the Dark Gods by Anthony Roberts & Geoff Gilbertson, or the Eighth Tower by John Keel.

It all comes down to cost vs. profit in the end. With accrued man power sometimes equalling over one hour to print, cut, bind, pack, and ship an order of one unit totalling sometimes in over 16+ USD in labor, a 19.95 book loses it's appeal for the publisher to produce.

[2AR]

Well unless someone shows up with some quality evidence I guess this story is dead.

Oh, no. It's not dead. No, it will go on here. Others will come, new posters with fantastic tales of the gnomes and intelligent lizards on the other side. Joey himself may put in an appearance here, followed by the spooky trolls, warning us all that this is a topic best left off the boards.

People will start posting things publicly on the boards, dropping notes for only certain eyes to see, and yet, they seem totally incapable of sending e-mail.

No. It's far from dead. It will continue ad infinitum.

-2AR

[science101]

********ALL POINTS BULLETIN OUT FOR THE BELOW REFERENCED BOOK*********

"Proofs of My Return" was published in two formats in 1961. Mr. Key (a post-grad student at Emory University at the time) self-published, using an Atlanta-area thesis printing service. These copies are leatherbound (embossed), lack any identifying colophon, and have images of a sundial printed on each page, along with untranslated latin text footers and some other illustrations. The other version is an unauthorized printing done in the same year by a New York vanity press (dba Anteaus Imprints, later absorbed by Gaslight Entertainments Inc.). This version is hardbound in blue fabric with gold lettering on the cover and spine, and has a colophon with some printing information (the year of publication, the name of the press, and a short note about the font for the text (Bannock Serif, with Monk Bold for the chapter headings). The Anteaus Imprints version has endnote translations of the Latin footers, but no illustrations.

Anybody with information concerning the whereabouts of this book, is instructed to post their findings here, UM!

[daleth]

Science, you really found a wealth of information. I was intrigued by the name of the one publishing company...

Named "Anteaus"

Antaeus

"Antaeus was the son of Gaia and Poseidon. He was a frightful giant who compelled all strangers to wrestle with him and defeated or killed them all. He was invincible for as long as he remained in contact with his mother (the Earth) for she supplied him with strength. Heracles discovered his secret and lifted Antaeus from the ground and strangled him. The battle with Heracles is depicted on many Greek vases and even on coins."

2AR, I agree. The whole thing has longevity and a unique mystique. I'm a newcomer to it, but have had my share of strange experiences. Just trying to sort the pieces of many different puzzles.

[BishopRyan]

********ALL POINTS BULLETIN OUT FOR THE BELOW REFERENCED BOOK*********

"Proofs of My Return" was published in two formats in 1961. Mr. Key (a post-grad student at Emory University at the time) self-published, using an Atlanta-area thesis printing service. These copies are leatherbound (embossed), lack any identifying colophon, and have images of a sundial printed on each page, along with untranslated latin text footers and some other illustrations. The other version is an unauthorized printing done in the same year by a New York vanity press (dba Anteaus Imprints, later absorbed by Gaslight Entertainments Inc.). This version is hardbound in blue fabric with gold lettering on the cover and spine, and has a colophon with some printing information (the year of publication, the name of the press, and a short note about the font for the text (Bannock Serif, with Monk Bold for the chapter headings). The Anteaus Imprints version has endnote translations of the Latin footers, but no illustrations.

Anybody with information concerning the whereabouts of this book, is instructed to post their findings here, UM!

Good info science101 can we prove this with any letters from the publisher or any solid info from Anteaus. I'd like to know where you get your info from can you credit anyone with these facts. Please report back and nice info.

[silver19]

I've read 3 pages of this post, and haven't seen this link mentioned:

http://forums.about.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?n...g=ab-paranormal

This is on the paranormal forum of about.com. This is where I read about the story "I drove out of this world for 20 minutes" and first read about John Palifox Key. I found the hoax page as well, but I thought I would offer up this link to you all as it mentions so much of what you are talking about. The post is from June of 2001. There are 1885 posts to that thread, and I'm only on number 95. Anyway, I am enjoying reading this thread. I tend to think it is a hoax book, but would love to see it actually appear.

[bboy]

Until I see pictures of the copy of the book, or the book itself, this is just an entertaining story.

[smartblonde3]

Hi everyone, some of you whom have researched this stuff enough would know who I am. I'm using the same ID as I did on About and elsewhere. I've stayed away from all this ridiculous online stuff for a long time, but recently came back to see what these morons were up to. I've posted this message on other sites, and I'm now going to post it here too. Make of it what you will. Hopefully it will help out some of the new folks who have gotten drawn into all of this recently.

Yes, it is I...The Great Blonde Temptress From The North....The Mysterious Mistress of Mayhem....Keeper of Secrets...Guardian of Doorways into the Unknown...BOW BEFORE MY GREATNESS!!!!!

Heh, heh...just jokin’. But damn people, after reading some of the things that have been written about me on the many forums these idiots are using right now, I’ve once again begun to feel like William Wallace did in Braveheart. The last time this happened, Loic with the funny hat had started the rumor that I was in fact some Mexican drug running, man killing machine called Fat Juanita. That was about the farthest from the truth as one could get! I must admit this new legend that’s grown around me is far more favorable, yet if I am to be honest, much of it is still untrue.

I’m going to try to clear some things up for the new folks that have been dragged into this. This whole JPK thing has become a deadly cycle, and I hate to see so many people wasting so much time, and getting so caught up in something they may never have a favorable answer to. I won’t go into the whole thing here, but as I’ve written on another site, I’ll leave my e-mail address at the end of this message for anyone who has any questions or would just like to discuss this further privately. I will respond to everyone as soon as I possibly can, although it may not be until after the holidays.

Man, I don’t even know where to start, there’s SO MUCH bulls*** to sift through here. I suppose I’ll just touch on some of the basics. I’ll start with myself I guess. Yes, my name is Heidi Nielsen, that’s my maiden name anyhow. Yes, I live in Michigan. However, NO, I do not live in Montmorency County. I do know some people from there however, and have met one of the “old-timers” that’s talked about quite often in person and keep in contact with him. That’s as far as the reality of the people you’ve written to and about go. Joey, Diane, Paula, etc......none of them has ever been found one way or another. I see you’ve been told that Joey has met me - not true. He likes to tell people he’ll get together with them soon here or there, but it never happens. I’ve lost count of the number of people I know who’ve been told by one of these personas that they’d like to meet....yet it never happens because “something always comes up”. How many of you have been told this? Anyone? If not, you would have been soon, I guarantee.

You see, as intelligent as some of these personas may come across, their egos get in the way of oh so much. They have constantly had a problem with consistency in many of their stories, and always come back with lame excuses that make no sense when they’re called out on it. You’d also think they’d know better than to throw out so much “supposed” information about themselves that could so easily be checked up on. Their places of work, places they hang out, companies they supposedly have book deals with, the list goes on and on. Each time they so arrogantly mentioned one of these juicy bits of personal information, me, or more often, a good friend of mine with far more resources than I have, would instantly check up on it. And wouldn’t you know? Nobody’s ever heard of them. None of them. Nobody in Delaware, nobody at any college or university, nobody in the whole of Delaware in the places that these personas claim to so often frequent. Nobody.

I can be found easily. I’ve even given out my phone number and married name to a few people I came to trust to prove my own existence. I CAN be found on Yahoo people search, lol. I dare any of these personas to claim the same. In all the years this has gone on, not one has ever accepted the challenge and followed through.

They have so many plants thrown in on these forums it’s funny. Anyone who claims to know or have met any of these people personally, claim to have found hard proof that they exist, anything of that nature - was one of them to begin with. Some claim to have copies of JPK's book....will they share so much as a photocopied page? Nope. They were in on it to begin with. I guarantee it. Each of the real people behind this have far more than one ID, that’s just a given. After being at this as many years as I have, it becomes easier and easier to tell. They try hard to sound different, but they always end up slipping.

Not everything is a lie however. Some of the stories they enjoy repeating again and again do have a grain of truth thrown in here and there. However, you have to ask yourselves....why would they keep trying to find new audiences to listen to them? They have a lot of the facts muddled and in most instances just plain ****ed up or totally fabricated (which they will no doubt claim is purposely done to keep from looking like the asses they really are). There is so much they have no clue about. That’s obvious. They talk too much, and the more they go on about it, the dumber they make themselves look, although they obviously don't realize it or they’d just shut their damn traps already.

If this were truly a group of all-knowing individuals, do you really think they would be spending so much time at a computer desk? Trying to leak the secrets of the ages they supposedly know into as many forums as they can find? Would they really have nothing better to do than throw out crumbs to as many people who were willing to listen to them, and then urge them to find out more on their own.....in the obvious hopes that those people would then report back anything that they find?

I’ll ask all of you to do two simple things.

1. Stop.

2. Take a step back and look at the big picture.

Take as much time as you need, a few minutes, a week, whatever it takes. Just try to look at everything from a distance. Many of you have no doubt gotten so into this that your poor overworked brains are suffering from a deluge of waaaay too much information. Trust me, I’ve been there. Just take some time and take that step back. Such a massive conglomeration of information is best viewed from a distance now and again....it makes things clearer, and much begins to fall into place and make more sense.

These people are ****ed up, big time, and have no conscience whatsoever. They‘ll screw with anyone’s emotions they can get their hands on, doesn’t matter who it is. And they just keep on doing it. When one site finally gets wise to them and kicks them out, they move on to a new forum and start the sh** all over again.

I could go on and on and on and on, but I’ve written an awful damn lot already. Please understand that I’m not claiming to be an all-knowing one either. I don’t have all the answers, and I’m not sure that any one person does. However, unlike the Joey’s and Diane’s, I’m trying to be as honest about it as I can. Enough people have been led astray already, and I don’t want to contribute to that problem.

There’s so much more I could say, but this is as far as I will go for now. I want to thank those who have already written me and you have my promise that I will get back to you very soon. I really enjoyed reading your letters, and I can tell you right now that I know EXACTLY how you feel about some of this. I can totally relate and look forward to helping to straighten some things out for you if I can.

Take it easy,

Heidi Nielsen smart_blonde_27@yahoo.com

[BishopRyan]

So why go to all the trouble to fabricate a story.

[vertigoflow]

So why go to all the trouble to fabricate a story.

Ask the same to any wannabe writer.

<<<

Thanks for the info smartblond.

to be honest, the amount of sheer 'noise' surrounding this whole mess has been enough to frustrate me into disinterest. There seems to be more drama and ego among this JPK crowd on the other msg boards then a gaggle of hormone-laced teenagers.

Seriously, if the book exists would it be so hard to take a picture of it? Or, if it was soooooo popular in the sixties to find one independent source who remember seeing it?

[science101]

smartblonde3:

Welcome to the forum! Reading your post, you appear to be very knowledgeable on this subject (JPK). I have to admit, the information surrounding JPK has so many twist and turns it is practically impossible to distinguish what is true or false.

smartblonde, I read your post twice. One thing that stuck out to me was this comment:

stories they enjoy repeating again and again do have a grain of truth thrown in here and there

Based on what you stated, what part of the story has a grain a truth to it? Does JPK's manuscript truly exist? Are there really portals in Montmorency County, Dekalb County, Constance, KY? Are the central characters, Eric and Joey Leguay, non-existant? Are the accounts experienced by some ficticious in nature? What have you!

Those are just some of the burning questions, I would like to have answered. Please advise.

Edited December 26, 2005 by science101

[The Egyptian]

Can these things be a sort of delusions ?

[dani10]

and my skin bound edition of the Necromonicron.

no WAY! where did you get it from??

[vertigoflow]

no WAY! where did you get it from??

A little bookstore in the middle of downtown Sarcasm-land.

[dani10]

[taustin]

We tried the link too, and it doesn't work from here. But you can enter it manually and it does work. We are not saying, however, that this website has all or even some of the answers, but it is interesting to look at.

We found those identities a while back when checking birth records for Delaware on a paid subscription board. All of them were there.

Our copy of "Proofs of My Return," which IS somewhat suspect we admit, came from a guy in Jamaica who was mailing out copies as an inducement to buy his biography of Joey Leguay (who often figures centrally in these matters). We did not buy the biography, but he said to keep the copied copy of PMR. It was done on one of those old fashioned copy machines and is composed of about 150 very black pages. You remember those copies they used to make with ancient copiers. It does not scan very well and is too long to scan much anyway, but it does appear to be taken from an original manuscript with etched pictures and all. It was typed or printed in a kind of font that does seem to predate the computer era. Anyway, we have scanned pages before, and they just don't copy onto computer screens, partly we think because of the very poor quality of the copying.

Key's manuscript is a hodge-podge of various sources. It begins as a rambling account of his experiences in some place called Constitution Lake, which is near Atlanta, Georgia, and which it appears is on property that was owned by Key's family. Then it shifts to Montmorency County, Michigan USA, where Key is taken by a local to an "archway" buried in the deep forests which is readily accessible and "always open" for travellers.

Key was trying to compose a socio-folkloric paper for his university and he states that. It is a first draft of some sort of doctoral dissertation. He is trying to explain the origins of the smaller creatures of all worldly folklore---elves, gnomes, sentient lizards, etc.

The last part of the manuscript is a compendium of letters (called "Compendium of Letters") that Key received through his many correspondents during the late 1950s and early 1960s. Most of the letters are handwritten and they too copy very poorly.

He gives the location in Delaware which is referenced above. He then goes off extensively into a discussion of the Forest of Paimpont in Brittany, France where passage to the Secondary Alternate Realm is continually taking place. You will remember that Paula was taken to parts of Brittany by her French friends and that she supposedly saw a "lizard captive" in some Breton town. It's in the blog. The lizard captive was intelligent and could transfer thoughts in any language.

We know that our copied manuscript has missing pages and some pages which, due to the copying procedures of the time, are simply unreadable. We have been looking, without success, for an original for the last four years.

A lot of this just remains hearsay, that is true and we won't deny it. But in some ways, it has taken up a life of its own.

In terms of non-substantial proof, we gained a lot of rather precise (but unverifiable) information last year from someone in Dover, Delaware who was willing to share. This person, a woman named Diane, gave us her e-mail address and told us to share it. It is deedeedecay@hotmail.com She was very straightforward and forthcoming when it came to details. Also, we received the e-mail address of feram@voila.fr which has been changed to ferabo@yahoo.com. Both of these address are viewed by persons who---and this is important----do NOT ask for any sort of compensation and who can offer leads for futher research.

Yep, we've reached a sort of dead-end. We know that there is information to be found at the link we gave, the one which does not work through here. To repeat: it is http://forums.delphiforums.com/Joeythefirst

We have just been to this site today, so we know the address works when manually entered. It is one of those places you just have to read to try to figure out what is going on.

Also, there is some recent information at proxywhore.com if you search for a thread called The name of the game is diplomacy or if you search on google using only the term "superannuaries."

Speaking of google, we have found that more of the older websites are offered searching with "John Palifox Key" (using quotes like this) on AltaVista and Jeeves than on Google. It is true that Google often misses a lot.

Finally, there are, we know this, a group of committed forum contributors who have a great deal of information on the whole JPK area at this address (again Delphi) http://forums.delphiforums.com/evilones. It may not work without being manually entered. On this forum, which is rather stiff---so be careful in your approach---you will find some of the folks from Micronations International who were used to discredit much of the JPK information over the past few years. This was a concerted effort, one of many, to bury the story as it unfolded online.

Otherwise, there is not much new to share. Wanadoo.fr used to have a few ongoing discussions in their paranormal section about matters related to this. They are worth a look if you can read French.

I found your information quite interesting and it lends some reasoning as to my brothers encounter about 10 years ago with "little people". He was somewhere in the Boston area out by a lake, camping, in an area you can only get to by boat. He told me the story last Christmas and I was fascinated with it ever since. I read about the other dimensions but only in a spiritual sense rather than a physical sense. These things did not fit any description I could find. The closest thing in possibly Menehunes. He did not visit this place you speak of but rather I think a couple of them visited here. I do hope we are able to actually document this stuff. Why has no one gone in there and documented it? With all our new technology surely someone can do that. Curious.