Why Is Jesus And Christianity So Hated?

[Irish]

I have over the years known many friends who are wheelchair bound and have had there dignity stripped away from them as well as their independence and freedom. Some have hung on to their faith and some have lost a little but the fact remains that a part of faith has remained, and that is hope. Because without that hope they would not be alive today.

I know by faith that death is not the end, and our lives here is just a blink of an eye compared to eternity. When we pray we only see our needs for today and tomorrow perhaps God se’s that as insignificant from His perspective and appears cruel and uncaring from our own perspective. That is why when we pray we ask it to be in His will and not our own.

A few years ago my mother died a cruel death from my perspective. Cancer eats away at not only the physical strength of a person but also that person’s dignity. Someone that was able to go to the bathroom by herself, feed herself, clothe herself, bathe herself, and was highly independent three years prior must now rely on others to help her with the most miniscule tasks now that cancer has taken over. The pain is too much for them to be able to handle such movements. Yet the dignity is hurt even more as they are treated like a child. I even prayed that God take away her life because I could not bear to watch her suffer. I felt

if she slips away to death then, for her, nothing is lost and everything is gained. She is healed though she is no longer with us. Death is a form of healing.

I am comforted by the words of Paul in Philippians 1:20-24 I eagerly expect and hope that I will in no way be ashamed, but will have sufficient courage so that now as always Christ will be exalted in my body, whether by life or by death. For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far; but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body.

I will keep searching and praying for an answer Sean.

Irish

[777MileStare]

^That was inspiring - ^ - That passage from Paul is something I see matching well with your story it is something I deal with - just with not as much death in my life. But dealing with myself living and dying- making a decision about God and what or who is possible- what kind of hope do I need to see the truth & all the possibilities. The fear balanced with the hope....

[101]

We are children of God- but Jesus is not an angel. He is God.

The sons of God in Genesis are angels- it is just different.

Who does PFlack think the sons of God are?

[Knothere]

Seans post is exactly why I "regressed" into the old way of thinking in my heritage. The great spirit is all things, and all things are part of it...The great spirit doesn't care, feel, consider, think, do, know, or anything...It just is, and WE do those things, WE make the rules, WE choose our destiny, WE choose our fate.

Nothing is pre-determined. To believe in God & the Bible means you are a fatalist...Think about that for ONE moment, it means you submit to your future & the future of mankind already being written. This means God already knows if your going to heaven, and you have no free will...If you believe prophecy, you have no free will.

Paradox is a mofo.

[NicktheApostel]

I am amazed at all of the wonderful posts that have been made since I made my tesimony. For those of you who do not know I started a TESTMONIES FORUM in the Spirituality v.s. Skepticism Forum. I was really wishing for these types of beautiful revelations to come out of it but am equally happy that they found thier way here. First of all Sean I am truly sorry for what has happened to you but at the same time who would you be now if that one thing had changed? Are you happy with yourself now? You obviously have a brain that God has given you and know how to use it that is a blessing. One other thing that comes to mind is the fact that LIFE IS SHORT. No matter what ills or problems anyone has life is short and they will be over soon. The way I look at it you can either learn from the bad stuff that happens in life and grow because of it or be hindered by it. Those that grow are the ones that prove to be stronger than whatever evil afflicts them. Those that are hindered are bound by whatever affects them and ultimatly lose themselves to it. You said you beat death, but from your sad outlook you could not beat this hinderence. I will pray for you to see whatever it is you need to see and may God bless you immensely. Sean you mentioned willpower as being what saved me. Not the grace of God. I disagree. Reason is I don't know if you have ever used marijuana but long-time use the way I did takes your will power away, so does alcohol which I am sure of which you are aware. I didnt quit because life was not working out. I could not have quit on my own. I did not quit on my own. When I asked for God to help me the addiction went away. It was lifted like a weight had been lifted that was keeping me from walking. I truly appreciate your comments because it helped my to analyze what happened to me in a clear way. I have now had time to think about if it was my will power that ended the evil that held me to the ground. But honestly, if I had quit without the Lord I would have went into depression which is a normal effect from quitting. I did not go into depression. I found more Joy than I have ever had in my life.

[Piney]

Seans post is exactly why I "regressed" into the old way of thinking in my heritage. The great spirit is all things, and all things are part of it...The great spirit doesn't care, feel, consider, think, do, know, or anything...It just is, and WE do those things, WE make the rules, WE choose our destiny, WE choose our fate.

Nothing is pre-determined. To believe in God & the Bible means you are a fatalist...Think about that for ONE moment, it means you submit to your future & the future of mankind already being written. This means God already knows if your going to heaven, and you have no free will...If you believe prophecy, you have no free will.

Paradox is a mofo.

.........and that fatalistic "End Times" load of 'road apples' drags men down and is one of the main reasons mankind has never strived to reach it's full potential and never will.

Lapi'che cuz

[scoobysnack]

Sean,

Wow, that was a very powerful post. First I want to say, I’m sorry you are paralyzed, and have been in so much pain for so many years. It must be an incredibly difficult life. One question, how the hell can you type if you are paralyzed and can only shrug your shoulders?

Using your own common sense, is like asking a blind person what color the clouds are. His common sense is way different then yours. It’s all a matter of personal perception, and how ignorant one is of certain suppressed information. Knowledge is power, which is why certain knowledge is kept for only a select few, that’s what I try to research. You must question everything, even if you are positive you are correct, I still do. Learning is a never ending process.

The article you posted brought up a lot of points, but I think didn’t quite understand the purpose of life. It made me think, but did not phase me in my beliefs. (The research I do on a daily basis makes me question more then that article) Is the purpose of life to have as much fun and pleasure as possible? NO! My point was not that God wants you to suffer, it was that he allowed you to suffer. I still have not shared my personal story about how I came to accept God, and I can sort of relate, because I myself suffer from depression everyday since I can remember. Although I was sort of joking about not being able to fly, most of my prayers I think have gone unanswered also. But that does not make me lose faith (personally). While I don’t have all the answers to the universe I will give you what I can offer.

This may sound weird but I think you value the material world to much. Are you afraid to die? Everyone is a little bit, because it’s death, and the end of physical life. This is not your home, your true home is the spiritual world. Think of earth as a college, where you can go to learn, and you will be coming home after you have graduated. You chose to have the life you have before you were born, we all did.

Some experiencers report of learning how they chose various aspects of their lives to be predestined before they were born. Some of the choices people have reported having chosen before birth include the selection of their birth parents, choosing their mission in life, and even choosing how they will die. This knowledge received by near-death experiencers of the past and future shows how some things in life are predestined while other things are not.

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/research01.html

Of course why would you choose to be in such pain and be disabled, what fun is that. Life is about affecting others. Sort of like the butterfly affect. Your actions have serious effects on others, that you can’t imagine. Did you ever watch the movie crash? Sort of like that. This is not heaven on earth, so don’t expect it to be like that.

If you are going to talk about Gods plan, why would God send Jesus to suffer and finally die on the cross. What fun is that. You need to look deeper at the issue at hand. If you read the bible especially Revelations in the end times, God comes and destroys humanity, and the beast only to build it back up better then ever. Why would god create humankind when he knew we were doomed to fail. Why create Adam if he knew he would eat the apple. Think of it this way. You buy a puppy. You know it’s going to p*** all over your house and chew up your stuff. It will eventually die. Why would you buy the puppy only to know that it will p*** on your carpet and then die, making you sad. It’s the experience in the present that is important. You love the dog and he gives you happiness. Of course there are bad times, but you remember the good times. Hope that makes sense.

I have done a lot of research into near death experiences, but am in no way an expert. I think if you looked into it, it would answer a lot of your questions to. I have read countless of personal experiences of non-believers passing over, and finding out that “sh** that stuff in the bible was more real then fake.

Did God want all the Jews to die in the concentration camps. No. Was it necessary? Maybe. Why?, so future generations could learn from our past mistakes and hopefully never repeat them, thereby growing spiritually in love. Does God want us to harm others? Of course not. Does he allow us to harm others, yes, why?, because we learn from our mistakes. Remember when you were a kid, and your parents told you not to do something, but you did it anyway. Until you did it yourself, you would not have known exactly why not to do it.

I may act cocky like I have all the answers, but I don't obviously. Just trying to help.

I think you and everyone on earth would benefit by reading up on this site:

http://www.near-death.com/

It has nothing to do with religion, but does validate some of what religion is about. I highly recommend it. This is also a good one. Thanks to Turtle:

http://www.nderf.org/

Edited December 9, 2005 by scoobysnack

[fantazum]

Yes Jesusfan this is a valid question. Do you as a Christian....believe and respect other religions?

christianity is the most tolerant of all faiths and embraces all other religions. Which is why western europe has so many mosques and sikh and hindu temples.

[SilverCougar]

christianity is the most tolerant of all faiths and embraces all other religions. Which is why western europe has so many mosques and sikh and hindu temples.

Yeah.. that's why for centuries they converted every "heathen" they could.. killed who wouldn't convert... Even today there are entire church that preach intolorance towards other faiths... Judges trying to make rulings that prohibits pagan parents from raising their children up in their faith and making them send their kids to christian private schools...

Christianity may at one time been preaching love and intolorance... but human greed twisted it into something else. Shame really.

I honestly respect the few christians that actually do follow christianity as a religion of love and tolorance. God and Jesus are probaly cringing each time someone uses them to spread hate and intolorance.

[Knothere]

christianity is the most tolerant of all faiths and embraces all other religions. Which is why western europe has so many mosques and sikh and hindu temples.

Don't confuse society with religion.

[Pyxis]

christianity is the most tolerant of all faiths and embraces all other religions. Which is why western europe has so many mosques and sikh and hindu temples.

[zandore]

christianity is the most tolerant of all faiths and embraces all other religions. Which is why western europe has so many mosques and sikh and hindu temples.

I have to agree with both of you SC and Pyxis!

Fanta read this link: "WONDERFUL EVENTS THAT TESTIFY TO GOD'S DIVINE GLORY"

It covers from Biblical times up till modern times.

[777MileStare]

We are children of God- but Jesus is not an angel. He is God.

The sons of God in Genesis are angels- it is just different.

Who does PFlack think the sons of God are?

Sorry, I was never taught that, I was a Catholic until I was 18 or so and couldn't ever put Jesus Christ and God together in the same kind of being. Lately Ive been told by a friend that Jesus is likely to be an angel, but as far as Sainthood -I would believe it if he had passed that stage by now.

I know about Father, Son, and Holy Spirit yet I never identified those as angelic. I thought Father was God, Son was Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit was what was in between.

[101]

As a penecostal christian I was taught this:

God the Father is the creator of the world and everything

The son- Jesus is our salvation- our savior

The holy spirit- is the one who convicts us of our sins. He also is the one who fills us with the presence of God. The evidence of speaking in tongues etc.

The holy spirit is what we feel about God

The trinity is 3 in 1.

It is confusing how God can be all three but he is.

I have a friend who was Catholic and he was taught lot's of stuff like that too. He is very smart and knows the Bible very good. He is like 40 something. He is simply brilliant. But we butt heads a lot. I think I annoy him with my questions. Perhaps because he thinks on a different level. Not meaning a superior level- just different.

[seanph]

Wow, that was a very powerful post. First I want to say, I’m sorry you are paralyzed, and have been in so much pain for so many years. It must be an incredibly difficult life. One question, how the hell can you type if you are paralyzed and can only shrug your shoulders?

I use a device for the disabled called the HeadMaster Plus (requires only head motion) and an on-screen keyboard.

Using your own common sense, is like asking a blind person what color the clouds are. His common sense is way different then yours. It’s all a matter of personal perception, and how ignorant one is of certain suppressed information. Knowledge is power, which is why certain knowledge is kept for only a select few, that’s what I try to research. You must question everything, even if you are positive you are correct, I still do. Learning is a never ending process.

I spent fifteen years as a devout Christian. I have read and studied the scriptures forward and backward. I have also studied the origins and evolution of Christianity on the collegiate level--obtaining a Bachelor of Science (History and Classics) from Ball State University. The field of Historical Research was/is my area of expertise.

The article you posted brought up a lot of points, but I think didn’t quite understand the purpose of life. It made me think, but did not phase me in my beliefs.

Please read texts other than Christian apologetics to obtain a balanced view of Christianity.

The River of God by Professor Gregory Riley is a wondered starting point.

(The research I do on a daily basis makes me question more then that article)

What research and by whom? Geisler, McDowell, Craig? These are intellectually dishonest faith peddlers.

Is the purpose of life to have as much fun and pleasure as possible? NO!

I have forgotten what fun was.

My point was not that God wants you to suffer, it was that he allowed you to suffer.

What a guy. I'm so thankful to this glorious deity for the wonderful opportunity to know suffering intimately. It has brought so much meaning to my life. And I can only wonder how much joy suffering has brought to starving little children, the homeless, abused, sick, and diseased. Glory to god for his tender mercy and love.

I myself suffer from depression everyday since I can remember.

My deepest sympathies. I certainly wish you healing and happiness.

This may sound weird but I think you value the material world to much.

You think I value the material world too much?! Fascinating. Yes, I just love my wheelchair soooooo much. And my computer! Wow! They're the only reason I desire to live.

How can you be materialist when you can barely participate in the material world?

Are you afraid to die?

I welcome it, for it is my only was to escape the prison that is my body. Death, in all honesty, cannot come soon enough. It would be a welcome relief.

I'm stopping here...

Edited December 9, 2005 by seanph

[777MileStare]

Y'Know that last one ^^^ is really - ..beyond me.. but see the question should be asked of you since you believe in God right?

Do you fear God Sean?

Then appropriatlely - because you would have to care Y' know-

Do you fear death? Thats more polite I think...

It still reminds me of Irishs' words earlier too this set of issues..

Edited December 9, 2005 by PFlack

[zandore]

Seanph I know you were not askintg for it but you have my utmost respect!

[zandore]

Y'Know that last one ^^^ is really - ..beyond me.. but see the question should be asked of you since you believe in God right?

Do you fear God Sean?

Then appropriatlely - because you would have to care Y' know-

Do you fear death? Thats more polite I think...

It still reminds me of Irishs' words earlier too this set of issues..

PFlack I don't think he believes in a God.

[seanph]

No, I no longer believe in a god. I have no fear of death at all. As I said, I welcome it. I don't mean to sound pathetic, but it's simply the truth. I love life ... there just comes a time when one simply tires of living it.

[zandore]

I don't mean to sound pathetic,

Having worked with people in your position Seanph I can honestly say you did not sound that way to me.

[seanph]

Thanks Z. I certainty didn't want to come across as Mr. Doom and Gloom. Just wanted to be honest.

[101]

Sean is no where near gloomy. I just love him to death

Hugs Seanie Poo.

You are so sweet.

[scoobysnack]

I use a device for the disabled called the HeadMaster Plus (requires only head motion) and an on-screen keyboard.

What research and by whom? Geisler, McDowell, Craig? These are intellectually dishonest faith peddlers.

I welcome it, for it is my only was to escape the prison that is my body. Death, in all honesty, cannot come soon enough. It would be a welcome relief.

Good for you, I'm glad you can still interact in some way with others. That technology is great. Have you checked into a voice recognition technology? My grandma's up-scale nursing home is purchasing the software so the residents can use email.

I research the occult, for one, because those in charge of you and me, practise it. Most of what I research has nothing what so ever to do with Christianity, beyond fulfilling bible prophecy. You would not even believe me if I told you. Most people don't. I'll tell you if you want to know. Hows this for a question. Why would God allow leaders to carry to carry out terrorist attacks agasint there own citizens. It happened on 9/11, and it's the truth. It happened in Oklahoma City, and in the 1993 WTC bombing. The world is literally run by Satanists, not by the Church. By the way the same group who currently runs the world, has also infiltrated and corrupted the Catholic Church a long time ago. I could go on to childeren being sold as sex slaves, across the world by our "respectable leaders". Nothing is as it seems, nothing. I live in the United States, and I expect so much more from this country, but for teh amount of money, we have it is one of hte worst countries in every single catagory. I found out everything I knew to be true was anything but. We are all lied to by our trusted news sources and leaders.

I welcome death myself. I can't wait to be honest.

I hope you looked at the near death experiances. It is not about pushing a certain religion, I really think you would find it interesting, I do. You might be in for a big surprise, when you die. I'm not saying you are going to hell. But don't expect death to be the end of consiousness. The greatest part is that you will gain back the use of your body, and will not have to be held back by such things as gravity. You will finally be free, and at peace. you may not think it will happen, but it will be as real for you as it has been real for countless others. I'm only trying to help make sense of a crazy world.

[777MileStare]

No, I no longer believe in a god. I have no fear of death at all. As I said, I welcome it. I don't mean to sound pathetic, but it's simply the truth. I love life ... there just comes a time when one simply tires of living it.

I think I know what you mean...

[Micinjensue]

Wow...Sean...you're incredible, an inspiration. I feel for you too.

I'm still very new to this board...but I thought that I would share a bit of my life. BTW...Sean I really liked that essay on God's Plan that you posted... I will relate some events in my life to God's Plan...(or lack thereof).

When I was fourteen years old my baby sister (12 years old) was murdered. Was that God's Plan? Did he mean for her to die a terrifying death? Did he mean for her to be ripped away from my family? Did he mean for us to be emotionally traumitized for the rest of our lives because of this horrific crime? Some people claim that he took my sister to keep her safe from harmful things...maybe to protect her from my family or because she was to good for this earth? If so...why then wasn't I worthy of being protected too? In such a terrible way. I was a little twelve year old girl too once.

Years went by...I healed...somewhat. In those days I still believed in God...though I had definitely begun to question Him and his Arbitrary Laws and his oh so Tender Mercy...

I'll skip the later teen years...though I did suffer from a three month long nightmare...but that's another story...when I was twenty-two and living on my own I felt such a stabbing agony in my abdomen that I ended up having to go to the hospital emergency... it turned out to be nothing major (according to doctors) and I was sent home with out ever really getting any satisfying answers about the pain. The pain lasted for about 3 weeks and gradually subsided but it never went away...NEVER. I got used to the pain and learned to ignore it...what a mistake that was.

At around 25 I had moved back to my home town, close to my parents. I made arrangements to go to Art College that Fall, and I never made it... That Summer the pain that had sent me to the Hospital 3 years before finally resolved into something...I had cancer. I was twenty five years old, I had never had children...and the first thing the disease took away was my ability to have children. Was that God's Plan? I wasn't meant to have children?

Anyway, it has been about 15 years and I am still fighting Cancer. I have been very sick...many times...been on the edge...scared many people with close calls...still scare them even today. My family...as I have indicated is quite religious....over an over again they tell me that I'm alive today because God is watching over me...that the power of prayer-circles has given me strength...no one gives me credit for the simple reality that I'm to stuborn to die... I thank people when they tell me that they prayed for me...but I believe completely that it my faith in myself, my love for my family and my inner strength that keeps me strong and fighting. For me life is worth living...I cherish every day... dispite the pain I have gone through and still suffer daily (i think people living with daily pain understand my term of "rising to new levels of pain").

Sometimes, when people want to praise God that I'm alive today...I just shake my head...It is my effort, my strength, my determination that makes me wake every day, face that new wonderful day and wonder what might happen today. I don't believe in fate (unless its strange fate). I don't think that God wrote a plan for me that said my sister would be murdered and that I would be emotionally scarred and then stricken with cancer... Was I born sinful? Was I destined to be punished? For what reason? What was Gods plan? Having Cancer hasn't made me a better person...so if his plan was to have me help others who suffer than he has failed. Oh I can help them...I understand the pain and fear they are going through and maybe on occasion I have helped...but I haven't gone out of my way...I haven't become a Good-doer, I not a Volunteer or a Joiner. Was it God's plan for me to become a cynic? A doubting Sinner? If so...and I have often blasphemied in vain ...he has yet to strike me down...unless of course my punishment is my cancer...and then what an Arbitrary God he is...because I still believed back then and my heart had not yet closed to him...

If there is a God, then I wonder what did I ever do to deserve this trial??? I mean if He loves me and he gave me this trail because he loves me...well...I sure wouldn't want to see what kind of trial I would have been given if I was hated.

I mean, after all...God loves every one right?

Edited December 21, 2005 by Micinjensue