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Jesusfan

Why Is Jesus And Christianity So Hated?

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GreyWeather

and, should our current civilization fall, in a thousand years, archeologists may well classify our religions as mythology.............

Or worse, our mythology (superman, batman, etc) as our religions

haha, that'd be awesome. the un-holy evil weapon would be a major search-for, and people would say they have found the kryptonite but lost it, and oh man... it'd be hilarious. and then they'd try and find the 'holy city of gotham city' :lol:. oh oh oh, and they'd think venom (spider-man baddie) would be like satan or whatever. and the gods were heroes for men. I mean, that could actually turn out to be true - thousands of years from now, people finding these comics - heh, the DC and Marvel religious sect's. :lol:

edit

now i think about it, the stories portrayed in the comics are almost like the ones portrayed in modern religion... I really really hope i get frozen, then un-frozen, then frozen again because i slipped and fell back into the freezer-pod-thingie, un-frozen again to find out people are worshipping the 'spider-man', 'batman', 'superman', 'catwoman' ect, and they have temples directed to them, and the comics are all merged and stuff. and then the 'satan worshipper' people of modern are the 'venom' worshippers and 'Kryptonite' holders. :lol: I can't wait!!

double edit

what I mean by "now i think about it, the stories portrayed in the comics are almost like the ones portrayed in modern religion... " is that for examples: spider-mans power of making webs from his wrists can be considered a god-ly power, the invunrability of superman (apart from from kryptonite) can also be considered a god like power (along with his xray vision, his laser eyes, his super strength, his power to fly ect), oh and his power to fly can be considered a miracle and god power.

but i've gone way off topic, am verr sorry. but its just funny and could turn out to be true!

Edited by Leliel

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Azalin

Here is a partial list of reading that will give you a fair background on what I was saying:

Finkelstein and Silberman, The Bible Unearthed (Touchstone, 2002)

Paul Johnson, A History of the Jews (Phoenix Grant, 1987)

Dan Cohn-Sherbok, The Crucified Jew (Harper Collins,1992)

Henry Hart Milman, The History of the Jews (Everyman, 1939)

Josephus, The Jewish War (Penguin, 1959)

Leslie Houlden (Ed.), Judaism & Christianity (Routledge, 1988)

Karen Armstrong, A History of Jerusalem (Harper Collins, 1999)

Jonathan N. Tubb, Canaanites (British Museum Press, 1998)

Norman Cantor, The Sacred Chain - A History of the Jews (Harper Collins, 1994)

Thomas L. Thompson, The Bible in History (Pimlico, 2000)

John Romer, Testament (Viking, 1999)

V. Davies, R. Friedman, Egypt (British Museum, 1998)

Herodotus, The Histories, (Penguin, 1972)

Ahmed Osman, Moses Pharaoh of Egypt (Grafton, 1990)

M. Grant, The History of Ancient Israel (Weidenfeld & Nicolson, 1996)

Aidan Dodson, Monarchs of the Nile (Rubicon, 1995)

Baruch Halpern, David's Secret Demons (Eerdmans, 2001)

B.S.J. Isserlin, The Israelites (Thames & Hudson, 1998)

Malachi Martin, The Decline & Fall of the Roman Church (Secker & Warburg, 1981)

Michael Parenti, History as Mystery (City Lights, 1999)

Alan Hall, History of the Papacy (PRC, 1998)

Helen Ellerbe, The Dark Side of Christian History (Morning Star & Lark, 1995)

Peter De Rosa, Vicars of Christ (Bantam Press, 1988)

John G. Jackson, Christianity Before Christ (American Atheist Press, 1985)

S. Angus, The Mystery Religions (Kessinger Publishing, 2003)

Antonia Tripolitis, Religions of the Hellenistic Roman Age (Eerdmans,2002)

As I suspected - a Christian website :yes:

Thanks for the information, I will look into it. Just because it is a christian website does not dis-close it, every author and Arch Bishop of the church are entitled to their own thoughts. Im not gonna not look at those books because it was written by a Hindu or an atheist. However, I hope you don't take any of these debates seriously Mako, I value your knowledge in the field, and value my known knowledge in religion as well. I hope their are no distraught feelings between us.

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Paranoid Android

Many now think that the abrahamic god was once a war god of one of the panthions the isreialites or caananites worshiped before just.. dropping them all for some other reason and going with just that one. The dropped gods and goddesses became angels and demons... Which could have been some priestly and leadership power play to do such.

What is your definition of "many" when you say many now think......?

By common admission, 2 billion people claim to be Christian. Now, include the Jews and Muslim's who all claim to follow YHWH, and that doesn't leave very many at all to believe that YHWH was a god of war from on of the pantheons.

Just a thought.

Regards, PA

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Yelekiah
thousands of years from now, people finding these comics - heh, the DC and Marvel religious sect's.

You stole my idea. :lol:

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SilverCougar

Many as in.. researchers, anthropologists, archeopologiests... people who don't let religion blind their findings...

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GreyWeather

You stole my idea. :lol:

haha, it was to temtping to use :lol:

now that i think about it, if theres a jedi faith (and yes, that is true so don't go pinning me down saying i'm blasphemy-ing), then why can't their be a marval faith :hmm:

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Lord Umbarger

O.K. This is one that is so screwed up that even I, the Great Lord Umbarger will NOT be getting involved in it.

Have fun! :no:

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ShaunZero

As soon as you source your claims. I am not the one making fantastic claims of a true religion, just showing how silly it is.

I did and found it much more believable than Christianity and a lot less violent and racist. :yes:

Wait wait, it's silly to beleive something with no proof? I thought you were into deism. You beleive in a God but you have no proof. Hypocrit?

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ShaunZero

Here is a partial list of reading that will give you a fair background on what I was saying:

Finkelstein and Silberman, The Bible Unearthed (Touchstone, 2002)

Paul Johnson, A History of the Jews (Phoenix Grant, 1987)

Dan Cohn-Sherbok, The Crucified Jew (Harper Collins,1992)

Henry Hart Milman, The History of the Jews (Everyman, 1939)

Josephus, The Jewish War (Penguin, 1959)

Leslie Houlden (Ed.), Judaism & Christianity (Routledge, 1988)

Karen Armstrong, A History of Jerusalem (Harper Collins, 1999)

Jonathan N. Tubb, Canaanites (British Museum Press, 1998)

Norman Cantor, The Sacred Chain - A History of the Jews (Harper Collins, 1994)

Thomas L. Thompson, The Bible in History (Pimlico, 2000)

John Romer, Testament (Viking, 1999)

V. Davies, R. Friedman, Egypt (British Museum, 1998)

Herodotus, The Histories, (Penguin, 1972)

Ahmed Osman, Moses Pharaoh of Egypt (Grafton, 1990)

M. Grant, The History of Ancient Israel (Weidenfeld & Nicolson, 1996)

Aidan Dodson, Monarchs of the Nile (Rubicon, 1995)

Baruch Halpern, David's Secret Demons (Eerdmans, 2001)

B.S.J. Isserlin, The Israelites (Thames & Hudson, 1998)

Malachi Martin, The Decline & Fall of the Roman Church (Secker & Warburg, 1981)

Michael Parenti, History as Mystery (City Lights, 1999)

Alan Hall, History of the Papacy (PRC, 1998)

Helen Ellerbe, The Dark Side of Christian History (Morning Star & Lark, 1995)

Peter De Rosa, Vicars of Christ (Bantam Press, 1988)

John G. Jackson, Christianity Before Christ (American Atheist Press, 1985)

S. Angus, The Mystery Religions (Kessinger Publishing, 2003)

Antonia Tripolitis, Religions of the Hellenistic Roman Age (Eerdmans,2002)

As I suspected - a Christian website :yes:

Well I doubt he'd link to an Atheist who's trying to prove God. Use common sense! XD

Aren't the books you just listed people that are TRYING to disprove God? I'm not exactly sure, just asking. If it is, why talk down on him for posting a christian site? Hypocrit?

Edited by ZeroShadow

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SilverCougar

He was asked for sources.. and he provided a list. THe person who asked was cool with that.

What's your problem?

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ShaunZero

That he said what I expected him to say

As I suspected - a Christian website

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SilverCougar

And have you read any of those books?

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ShaunZero

What does that have to do with anything that I said?

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mako

Zero, if you will bother to check the sources that I listed out, you will find a hodgepodge of Christian, Atheist, Jewish, Greek and other belief systems represented in it. The one thing they all have in common is that the authors are either historians, archaeologists, or authors writting in collusion with either a historian or archaeologist. Two of the sources listed are ancient - Josephus (aka Flavius Josephus aka Yosef Ben-Matityahu) and Herodotus of Halicarnassus (aka Herodotos), Josephus writing in the late 1st century CE and Herodotus writing in the 5th century BCE. These people are not attempting to prove or disprove Judiasm or Christianity, but merely attempting to set the historic record straight after 1700 years of Christian distortion. Did you know that Nazareth did not exist until around a century after Jesus was supposedly executed? That Bethlehem of Judea was in ruins during the period that Jesus was supposedly born there and wasn't rebuilt until late in the Roman Empire? Did you know that early in the history of Judaism, Jehovah/Yahweh/YHWH had a wife? Looks like the early Jews weren't totally monotheistic doesn't it. Makes Jehovah's knocking Mary up not just fornication but adultry also! Sorry, I couldn't resist that....If you really want to understand your religion, really understand it, then you need to read those books listed and just for you I will add one:

Did God Have a Wife? Archeology and Folk Religion in Ancient Israel by William G Dever (William B Eerdman Publishing Company 2004) Dr Dever is a Christian, a Maximalist, and Professor of Near Eastern Archaeology at University of Arizona. :yes:

Edited by mako

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ShaunZero

I did some googeling on the subject and read this. Not sure how accurate it is, but it seems interesting. I tried looking for links that back YOU up but I can only run into this link and a few others saying basically the same thing. Now, I didn't search alot I'll admit, but I don't have the time. And I'm sitting here waiting for you to post but I need to get some sleep XD. Hurry up! You don't have to type an entire paragraph O_O lmao

http://www.facingthechallenge.org/nazareth.htm

Edited by ZeroShadow

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mako
Not sure how accurate it is, but it seems interesting.

Not really very accurate. Nazareth was originally the location of the cemetery of the town of Japha (located less than a mile to the southwest of Nazareth) Nazareth is located in a valley, hemmed in on three sides by hills, with Japha located at the mouth of the valley. Japha was a sizeable town (prior to the 1st Jewish war) and had a synagogue (Nazareth had a synagogue by the NT, but if it were the size your source says, it wouldn’t have had one) and was destroyed by the Romans in 67 CE. Josephus tells us that the inhabitants were massacred with the survivors enslaved (he reports 15,000 killed and 2,130 women and children led off into slavery). Around 130 CE, a group of Jewish Priests wanting to set up a town away from the contamination of the Gentiles (Romans and Greeks) founded Nazareth, the village survived by subsistence farming. Later, this village died and one of the Empresses of the Byzantine Empire “discovered” Nazareth and you know the rest of the story. Your sources ignores the fact that no village would exist in or over an “active” cemetery (you know how the old Jews were about dead bodies), and that there is no evidence of inhabitance between 8700 BCE to 130 CE (other that a single farm storage building dating around 1st century BCE). So no, I don’t think much of the source. You need to understand that only through knowledge of your subject can you shift out the BS from the valid data on the internet. :yes:

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ShaunZero

Or by asking people. =P

But you're still telling me to go out and get the proof for myself, how come there's no links anywhere on the web that you can link us too? If you're so right, why aren't their links? I'm sure you have some if the information is so valid. The first time you posted you didn't even provide any proof.

Edited by ZeroShadow

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mako
If you're so right, why aren't their links?

Could it be because I tend to use books as my sources of information (remember my list? it is only a partial list). I am aware of several links on the internet but do not consider them very accurate, even though they say much what I do. I have found too many mistakes or distortions in their contents to list them or link to them. Go to you local library, if they don't have these books, usually they can get them from other libraries and then read those books. Be ready for your eyes to be opened. :yes:

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Jesusfan

Well I doubt he'd link to an Atheist who's trying to prove God. Use common sense! XD

Aren't the books you just listed people that are TRYING to disprove God? I'm not exactly sure, just asking. If it is, why talk down on him for posting a christian site? Hypocrit?

Interesting that the sources listed all seem to come from the notion that Isreal/Bible/God has to be from the "known to be correct" assumptions of liberalism... Say it again, why is it that we who are conservative regarding the concepts of jesus/Bible/God/Isreal etc are always directed to "enlighten" our thinking by reading such source materials, but when we ask th ereverse to occur, that somne read and research with an OPEN mind those holding to more tradtional viewpoints , the sources are automatically "biased/bad scholarship/trash/no good etc?"

And don't forget those followers of consevative Judaism/Muslim, are all of their sources, authorities used and quoted to support more of a traditional/conservative approach to religious matters flawed and to be trashed too?

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101

Thanks Sean. So as a Christian should I not celebrate Christmas because it is on the wrong day? I think that maybe even if the whole pagan Christmas tree thing is done and the giving of gifts it shouldn't matter. Because if the Mom's and Dad's or caretakers tell their kids about what Christmas is about ( a time with family and the celebration of Christ's birth) or the pagans can say ( it is a festival for the harvest and the Saturn) Or people could just not celebrate. Wow it is so hard to think about all this stuff. :huh::cry: It is like I was living in a bubble.

Mako and SC the satyrs could not possibly be real or could they? I guess the whole Zeus god being a smiter was a bad claim. I know that my God was a (I don't want to say that) -because I think that would be mean to say that.

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seanph

Howdy Suzy-Q! There are many Christians who say no, Christmas should not be celebrated because of its pagan origins. Do I agree? Heck no! I love Christmas--and I'm an atheist! Great holiday! Family, friends ... that's what it's all about for me. :)

Christian Churches of God

http://www.logon.org/english/c/cb024.html

Edited by seanph

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zandore

Two seperate questions/answers..

Do I respect other religions? If you are asking to I allow for others to place their faith in them, yes, we all have been granted the free will by God to believe what we chose to concerning God and Eternity, but I do not respect/believe them as being equal to/valid as Christianity is, since Jesus Christ is the Risen Lord and Saviour, so by definition of truth, since He alone qualifies as the Saviour.Messiah of whole earth, than the Christianity that has one placing faith and belief in Jesus as messiah/God Incarnate, is the True religion...

SC already said what I was going to say.

As I've said before... if one god is true... then they all are.

Why? Because as long as someone has belief in that god or goddess, they will exist.

Then there is no true religion.

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101

Oh because I go to church and they always decorate with a huge Christmas tree and wreaths.... and I go to a penecostal holy roller church. lol.

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mako
that somne read and research with an OPEN mind those holding to more tradtional viewpoints , the sources are automatically "biased/bad scholarship/trash/no good etc?"

Ah yes, the old "Bible in one hand, Shovel in the other"! As a researcher for the government, I have reason to consult with members of the archaeological community and you would be surprized what those that specialize in other cultures think about that approach! As one Chinese Archaeologist commented, "Extremely biased, not good scholarship at all, the same as going into a dig with preconcieved notions of what the finds will mean without leting the finds speak for themselves. Very poor scholarship, would be laughed out of Chungkuo (China) Archaeological Society if I were to do such!" A Peruvian Archaeologist specializing in the Incan culture said that he didn't even trust the Spainish records of the Jesuits as guides to what he found, they were too biased. That is the problem of the conservative traditional viewpoints, they want to force the data to conform to their beliefs, not let the data speak for itself. History and Archaeology needs to be conducted by the unbiased, not those with their minds made up! :no:

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zandore

Hi 101 :st

Oh because I go to church and they always decorate with a huge Christmas tree and wreaths....
Do they know that these are Pagan symbols and a Pagan holiday?

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