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Jesusfan

Why Is Jesus And Christianity So Hated?

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101

Yes Zandore that is why I was telling Sean that..... :yes:

I just thought it was interesting how a church with a theologian would allow this in the church. I guess it is okay. I mean we all do it now.

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Paranoid Android

Thanks Sean. So as a Christian should I not celebrate Christmas because it is on the wrong day? I think that maybe even if the whole pagan Christmas tree thing is done and the giving of gifts it shouldn't matter.

Hey 101. Personally, I do not think anything of it. As I mentioned in another thread, I never grew up celebrating Christmas specifically because my parents did not believe it to be right. From a biblical standpoint, you can argue that God would not want us to - God tells us to worship Him in the way He wants us to, not in the way the world worships, and since Christmas (and Easter too for that matter) are rooted in paganism, then are we not worshipping the way the world does?

But I tend to believe that in today's society, hundreds of years after the pagan ideas have been lost to the antiquities of time, that most do not know they are worshipping in a pagan manner and would not offend God, though the same cannot be said of those who worshipped hundreds of years ago, fully aware of the pagan heritage.

A question I always ask my Christian friends, jsut to get them thinking (because there are depressingly few who do): Would Christians be happy if the arch-bishop of Sydney attempted to appeal to the homosexual community by bastardizing the Mardi Gras and simply changing it to a big festival to Christ. Hundreds of years in the future, perhaps people would also have forgotten its roots and use it as a chance to dress up in silly costumes, hold a parade and worship God.

Just a thought.

Regards, PA

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101

Thanks PA!

I guess you are right.

But I think people have no idea they are doing wrong...it is just something we always do..

So maybe it is okay.

God does understand and he would know whether or not it was for worship of other gods...

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soonerlover

I believe there is only one true God. I am a Chirstian but I also think that other religions ie: islam,buddist,etc. just have different interpetations of it. Does that make them wrong? I think not although there are extremist who distort the true meaning. All religions have been persicuted over the years and that will continue to happen. Believe what you will just don't force it on others. One day I am sure we will all find the truth.

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Jodie.Lynne

Bravo soonerlover!

Well spoken. Now if we can just get everyone else to think that way.

;)

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Infrazael

Osiris is just as real as your God.

Why? Because I SAY SO.

And of course, you're going to try to refute me and say I'm giving false information.

But in actuality. . . . the Bible is full of strange errors and contradictions as well.

Osiris. . . . Lord of Lords, LONG before the Abrahamic religions were founded. You guys took his title, you realize? LOL.

Christianity is a great TOOL however, one that I respect. But then again, all faiths are Tools to be used if you follow what I follow.

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Azalin

Mako,

I too read a lot of books, but that doesn't mean they are correct. I just recently read a book called "Glimpses of the Devil" which is written by M.Scott Peck a psychiatrist of 20 + years. In it he talks about how he has had 2 cases of Demonic Possession and how he was forced to become an exorcist to drive out the demons. After reading it, I felt stupefied. None of the nonsense he was talking about has any meanings to Demonic Possession. Plus the fact he talks about the rules to defeat a demon at the start of the book, then half way through, he walks all over those rules and triumphs.

Im just suggesting that not all books can be legit pieces of information. I too rather read from books that need to be published, and have accurate sources, instead of domains on the internet that can be bought and used by anyone around the world. I haven't looked into your books as of yet, so I cannot dis-credit them, but I would hope that SOME of that source would be on the internet somewhere if it was widely known knowledge. The reason why their are thousands of history books around, is because everyone has their own theories. Archaologists still search for Atlantis, and Shangri-la. Some archaologists laugh at them, but they firmly believe they are correct, and publish their books. Thats the problem with some ancient history, it's hard to find out exactly what happened, and in our lifetime, we may never find out if Jesus lived.

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mako

Simple answer to your entire post.....the same thing could be said of the bible! There are those that insist it is literally the truth, but is it? By all that has recently been literally unearthed, it is nothing more that mythology, just like that of the Greeks :yes:

Edited by mako

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Fluffybunny

Well, in my opinion I do not think that jesus himself is hated. There are plenty of folks that do not think that he existed, or if he did exist that he was a human that had many rumors blown out of proportion in regards to what he was and what he did.

"Christianity" on the other hand has quite a record to deal with. Lots of death, torture, wars, hatred, prejudice, murder and any other negative you can think of was instigated by the "word" of the bible. For thousands of years it has been the same; it hasn't gotten better.

In psychology there is a saying that "pertinent past history is the best indicator of future actions", basically saying that if you have been a butthead for 50 years straight, it is a good bet that you will continue to be a butthead for your 51st year...

...christianity has been a butthead for thousands of years...really.

There are some in the church that are honest and well intentioned people, I know that and have seen it first hand. Unfortunately the powerful in the church have their own motivations for their actions and the result is a group of people that are trying to control the better part of the world with their own opinion of what is the right way to live.

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mako

Preach it Brother Fluffy....You said the truth on that one! Unfortunately, the innocent suffer the slings and arrows of rejection because of the evil ones that lead the religion :yes:

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masqua

You know, after reading this contentious thread, I'm left a little befuddled by the wide difference of opinions on the question "Why is Jesus and Christianity So Hated?"

I've seen everything from reference to Baastet, Zues and Osiris bandied about, either in support or to disclaim Christianity. There's also even been a nudge that we shouldn't study what researchers and theologists have to say about the history of Christianity.

Really a broad set of responses, but never actually getting down to the nut of the matter.

The new Testament and it's Gospels were written many years after the life and death of Jesus, weren't they? Therefore they are part of the building of a religion based on someone who has had no hand in what they say.

Who was Jesus? What did he really preach during his short ministry? Were his words based on the Essene traditions because he was an Essene or did he vary from those teachings?

What I'm getting at is this...why should I include the New Testament when I talk of Jesus? His teaching most certainly would reflect what has been written in the Old Testament. The material is there, in the scrolls found at Qumran, already deciphered by legions of scholars. And yet, the mainstream Christian churches have not responded to the many chapters found within those hundreds of scrolls, prefering instead the status quo of Pauline Christians.

To my limited understanding, Jesus and the Old Testament, in many ways, stand in opposition to the authors of the New Testament.

So...is it just Atheists and other religions which hate jesus and the Bible? I doubt it...because it could be Christians hating the fallacies of Pauline Christians too.

Interestingly enough...the followers of Jesus first went into Egypt to escape their persecution by the hands of Pauline Christians and the Rabbinic Judaism under Rome. Later, around the middle of the 2nd century, they fled north into Spain and then into Ireland where they took roots as the Celtic Remnant, holding their pure Nazarean beliefs intact until the Synod of Whitby in the 8th century. For that reason, in old libraries and forgotten places, reside the true teachings of Jesus, his brothers and their followers. God bless the Irish and St Patrick.

Please don't ask me for links, since I'm going by my own library and will have to google for online material...something everyone is capable of if they're reading this post

Edited by masqua

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mako

Well said masqua. I have only heard a little about the Celtic Remenant and it's on my list of things to research in the future. :yes:

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zandore

But in actuality. . . . the Bible is full of strange errors and contradictions as well.

I agree and have posted a few of them, but there are some here that say we are reading the Bible wrong! :rolleyes:

Fluffy well said :clap::nw:

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SilverCougar

Thanks Sean. So as a Christian should I not celebrate Christmas because it is on the wrong day? I think that maybe even if the whole pagan Christmas tree thing is done and the giving of gifts it shouldn't matter. Because if the Mom's and Dad's or caretakers tell their kids about what Christmas is about ( a time with family and the celebration of Christ's birth) or the pagans can say ( it is a festival for the harvest and the Saturn) Or people could just not celebrate. Wow it is so hard to think about all this stuff. :huh::cry: It is like I was living in a bubble.

Mako and SC the satyrs could not possibly be real or could they? I guess the whole Zeus god being a smiter was a bad claim. I know that my God was a (I don't want to say that) -because I think that would be mean to say that.

Yule is actually the celebration of the return of the Goddess's Consort.. the return of the sun god. (Since after the solctice, the days get longer again) So it was a time of joyful celepration.

And well if satyr's existed now, we'd still see them! They wern't shy buggers... Loveing to drink.. they were Dionysus's favorites because of their lust for wine... and well women. X)

So if they existed back then... they don't seem to be about anymore. ;)

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GreyWeather

Yule is actually the celebration of the return of the Goddess's Consort.. the return of the sun god. (Since after the solctice, the days get longer again) So it was a time of joyful celepration.

And well if satyr's existed now, we'd still see them! They wern't shy buggers... Loveing to drink.. they were Dionysus's favorites because of their lust for wine... and well women. X)

So if they existed back then... they don't seem to be about anymore. ;)

xD they were probally slapped with a ton of restraining orders by now :lol:

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SilverCougar

They would rule the clubbing industry...

Ok ok before this goes awry of the topic again. Oh wait.. Masqua.. it's Bastet. And I didn't use her to disprove or credit your belife in Jesus... Just saying She is who *I* believe in. She is my matron goddess...

*shrugs*

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Eternal Light

Simple question deserves a simple answer – Now that Christianity’s 1700 year monopoly on the Western World has been broken and it is no longer a capital crime to actually research the claims of Christianity, more and more people have seen how bogus it all is. How there is NO CONTEMPORARY EVIDENCE of a Jesus of Nazareth, nothing anywhere other that a very highly biased and suspect collection of documents that gives evidence of the validity of the God Jehovah/Yaweh/YHWH or that Jesus of Nazareth was his son. That the town of Nazareth did not actually exist until around 130 CE. That Bethlehem of Judea was only ruins at the time Jesus was supposedly born there. That the whole thing is no more than a copy of various older resurrected savior god religions. That is why we take it upon ourselves to totally disregard a person who probably never existed and an organization that has perpetrated more horror, bloodshed, evil, torment, and torture upon this world and for longer than any other organization in the history of humanity

There are no historical accounts of his life…None. We only have 4 “gospels”, written long generations after the supposed fact, that claim to tell the details of his life, but if all the incidents (including the obvious repeats from poor copying) were put together, they would cover a mere 8 weeks out of a life that was supposedly 32 years long! All other mentions of this Jesus are either known interpolations or so far after the fact that the information could only have been gotten by asking a Christian.

I can only speak for myself, but I do not accept the other religious founders as anything more than I accept Jesus of Nazareth – either Charlatans, less than what their followers claimed, or pure and simple mythological characters.

And with the dearth of valid evidence they shouldn’t be.

I echo Seanp on this one – Oh that I would live to see the day!

Nor is there any for Jehovah/Yahweh/YHWH

Or unless you believe Jehovah actually fought alongside Israelites in the conquest of Canaan for the fun of it (Joshua 10:10-11)

Don’t see how that is much difference than speaking from a burning bush or from a whirlwind or impregnating a virgin through the holy spirit (which is supposed to be him anyway).

The Israelites believed that he dwelled in the Tabernacle, so what is the difference?

King Lear, Julius Caesar, Tobacco Road, the Longest Day are all brim full of historical references, any good fiction writer will set their works against a historical background, if only to make them believable. The bibles historical references does nothing toward granting validity to it or the religion it supports. Incidentially, could you provide any real evidence that David and Solomon ever existed, there seems to be no secular evidence for them.

Actually no religion can be proven false, nor can a religion be disproved totally.

They have as many historical references as does the bible, you just aren’t familiar with their history. Greek Mythology brims with Bronze Age Greek historical references, Hinduism has historical references that go back to the 4th millennium BCE (Judiasm/Chiristianity can only claim 2nd millennium), Buddhism has historical references at least back to 2500 BCE.

Numbers mean nothing when it comes to the validity of a religion

As a Deist, I like to think they are all part and parcel of the Creator

A superb critique and summation!

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masqua

Masqua.. it's Bastet. And I didn't use her to disprove or credit your belife in Jesus... Just saying She is who *I* believe in. She is my matron goddess...

*shrugs*

Sorry about the misspelling of the Egyptian Goddess Bastet as well as the inference that you used this Deity either to discredit or embellish Jesus.

Just for further clarification, I am interested in a historical Jesus only. I am not a Christian either, but rather a Pantheist.

I study religions only to understand my own spirituality through comparison.

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SilverCougar

Sorry about the misspelling of the Egyptian Goddess Bastet as well as the inference that you used this Deity either to discredit or embellish Jesus.

Just for further clarification, I am interested in a historical Jesus only. I am not a Christian either, but rather a Pantheist.

I study religions only to understand my own spirituality through comparison.

Good on you mate ;)

The historical Jesus tends to be a rather intresting in the way that... he's so shrouded with biblical exagerations, that it's hard to tell what exactly he did and didn't do.

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Eternal Light

Howdy Suzy-Q! There are many Christians who say no, Christmas should not be celebrated because of its pagan origins. Do I agree? Heck no! I love Christmas--and I'm an atheist! Great holiday! Family, friends ... that's what it's all about for me...

Me too! :tu:

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hyperactive

A superb critique and summation!

i second that. :tu:

i will add i consider the creator to be humanity itself.

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Eternal Light

...i will add i consider the creator to be humanity itself.

What an intriguing statement! I found it a bit ambiguous tho...I'm hoping you may start a new topic on the theory; I suspect many people, including myself would find it very interesting. :tu:

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JTBob

I found this thread pretty amusing and interesting.

Perhaps most interesting of all was how far off the thread has gone from the first post :P.

To answer Jesusfan's original question: I would refute the claim that Christianity is persecuted. Instead my own observations lead me to strongly believe that Christianity has an elevated position in society's (United States) perception of religion.

I cannot speak for anyone else's experiences but my own, however growing up as a practicing Buddhist and agnostic I find that Christianity has a hegemonic influence in the United States of America.

I know perhaps a dozen hymns, canticles, and general Christian songs even though I have never been a practicing Christian.

I take a government holiday for Christmas (although it has since been pointed out that this was probably a usurped pagan holiday) and Easter (also often regarded as a usurped pagan holiday) even though they do not represent holidays I practice on a religious level. The argument can be made that these are secular holidays but often they are accompanied by religious iconography and rhetoric. I do not say this out of spite (who doesn't like Christmas?) but rather to simply point out that Christianity has an enomorous influence in the United States.

I have often brought up with my friends (mostly atheist or non-practicing) that it is ironic that we know many Christian religious songs, and are even able to sing along in Latin to a few but are completely unaware of Hebrew or Arabic seasonal songs.

Often in the United States we have legal battles over the separation of church and state. These battles always involve Christian iconography and are at times accepted as legitimate practices. In certain circumstances it is okay to have the 10 commandments posted in government buildings. However if anyone ever suggested including Muslim or Buddhist iconography or rhetoric in public spaces I guarantee that it would never succeed.

Irregardless of how you feel about Christianity it would seem unwise to characterize it as being persecuted in any way (at least in the western world).

In situations where there is persecution (China, certain Muslim countries) FluffyBunny was right on the mark with his comment about the historical crimes of the Church. Anyway you slice it, the Church has committed atrocities at one point at time. Whether it be during the Crusades, Spanish Inquisition, the colonizing of the Americas, WWII, or present. The Church has admitted to mistakes.

Where Christianity is looked down on, the cause is most likely atrocities committed in its name in the past.

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Paranoid Android

I agree and have posted a few of them, but there are some here that say we are reading the Bible wrong! :rolleyes:

Yep, and I'm one of them :P

Next time you post a passage, could you do us a favour and post a few verses before, and a few after the verse you actually want to use?

Most of the time, that's all that's needed to discredit the quote you use :yes:

Regards, PA

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seanph

Well said, JTBob! ;):yes:

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