Where did the Knights templars fleet go?

[back to earth]

You spelt it wrong. So I was't sure. Why did use that as an example? Curious!

P.S. I don't like opening links. Viruses and such...

because it was personal to you , I thought you might 'get it' better .

[back to earth]

... anyway, on with the thread , regarding your theory Harry, how do you account for :

1. 38% Catholicism is the largest religion but not close to even a majority, ( You said Switzerland was "an independent Catholic Homeland " )

2. The Templar flag is mainly shown as red cross of white the Swiss flag is white cross on red. ( you claimed it was "an identical copy"' in your post # 61)

3. The Swiss guard is the remnant of the old Papal army and they are mercenaries and not representatives of the Swiss government. ( In same post you claimed the vatican uses "The Swiss" to protect them )

4. 10.5% of the Swiss economy is based on financial services and there are seven nations in the world that hold much greater banking resources than Switzerland. ( You said the Swiss were " the bankers of Europe " . )

5. The Swiss have not thrown all women out of the country and all female animals as well.

6. They dont take vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience to Rome.

7. How does the above back up your statement that " There are just so many similarities between the Swiss state and the Templars that you just can't discount the fact that Switzerland is a continuation of the Templar order." ?

8. If the Templars had been loyal, obedient lapdogs, waswas the church so thorough in eradicating them.?

9. How did I "insult my heritage" ? ( your post # 69 )

Edited December 28, 2015 by back to earth

[back to earth]

You had no idea it was personnel to me until after I mentioned it... so I take it you just pull a random and totally unrelated subject outta thin air...

not quite ... I pulled a random and totally related subject (to you ) out of thin air

[Harry_Dresden]

... anyway, on with the thread , regarding your theory Harry, how do you account for :

1. 38% Catholicism is the largest religion but not close to even a majority, ( You said Switzerland was "an independent Catholic Homeland " )

2. The Templar flag is mainly shown as red cross of white the Swiss flag is white cross on red. ( you claimed it was "an identical copy"' in your post # 61)

3. The Swiss guard is the remnant of the old Papal army and they are mercenaries and not representatives of the Swiss government. ( In same post you claimed the vatican uses "The Swiss" to protect them )

4. 10.5% of the Swiss economy is based on financial services and there are seven nations in the world that hold much greater banking resources than Switzerland. ( You said the Swiss were " the bankers of Europe " . )

5. The Swiss have not thrown all women out of the country and all female animals as well.

6. They dont take vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience to Rome.

7. How does the above back up your statement that " There are just so many similarities between the Swiss state and the Templars that you just can't discount the fact that Switzerland is a continuation of the Templar order." ?

8. If the Templars had been loyal, obedient lapdogs, waswas the church so thorough in eradicating them.?

9. How did I "insult my heritage" ? ( your post # 69 )

No.

[back to earth]

What ? You dont account for any of it ? I guess then, your idea about Templars turning into the Swiss ....

[Paranormal Panther]

Does'nt seem to make sense; if the Templars - enemies with the vatican - became Swiss, serving the Vatican ?

Swiss were famous for hiring themselves out for war ... in other places ! That is probably a big part of what enabled the country to form, and maintain its peace .

I know. I'm not serious.

[Joe3]

There is a legend in Peru that a group of Tall, metal clothed, gods came ashore in an area that is still called La Misteriosa around 1250... Local legend says they took over the area as rulers and ruled from Chachapoyas. Pizarros scribe mentioned a graveyard of boats. 8-10 in that area then mentioned the Blond haired and sometimes blue eyed people in the mountains around Chachapoyas. Tall light skinned people later became the body guards of the Incan rulers that came later.

Perhaps the Knights Templar?

Look at photos of their mummies from 1000 years ago. They definitely dont have the round face of the incas but the long face of the Europeans.

[Harry_Dresden]

There is a legend in Peru that a group of Tall, metal clothed, gods came ashore in an area that is still called La Misteriosa around 1250... Local legend says they took over the area as rulers and ruled from Chachapoyas. Pizarros scribe mentioned a graveyard of boats. 8-10 in that area then mentioned the Blond haired and sometimes blue eyed people in the mountains around Chachapoyas. Tall light skinned people later became the body guards of the Incan rulers that came later.

Perhaps the Knights Templar?

Look at photos of their mummies from 1000 years ago. They definitely dont have the round face of the incas but the long face of the Europeans.

Chapapoyans were eventually wiped out due to small pox and other disease's from Europe. So if they were originally from Europe, then would have been immune and secondly they would have wiped out the original inhabitants when they arrived.

Edited December 29, 2015 by Harry_Dresden

[Joe3]

They were there for at least 300 years before the Spanish arrived. Plenty of time to naturally lose immunity or inter breed. And also. Smallpox was rampant in Europe up until the 1700's. Long after this arrival. There were epidemics into the 1800's in Europe. Anyhow there are STILL many white people there in the area between Chachapoyas and the Amazon Basin.

[Harry_Dresden]

They were there for at least 300 years before the Spanish arrived. Plenty of time to naturally lose immunity or inter breed. And also. Smallpox was rampant in Europe up until the 1700's. Long after this arrival. There were epidemics into the 1800's in Europe. Anyhow there are STILL many white people there in the area between Chachapoyas and the Amazon Basin.

All good point you've brought up. I watched this program age's ago about the design of the Chapapoyan citadels and apparently they have much in common with Bronze Age ones in the Mediterranean.

[Joe3]

I spent a lot of time in Peru...

Another thing to point out is just like the Knights Templar, The Chachapoya, unlike the rest of the people in that area built round buildingsout of stone. Just like the knights Templar. Many still exist today. There are many crosses engraved into rocks that people associate with the Spaniards. However the design is of the plain flared end square cross. Not the stylized crucifix cross of the Conquistadors.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

Yes, but saying "they have similar crosses" is like saying "The Nazis were Buddhists bcause of the Swastika being used by both".

[atalante]

The following link explains a connection between Switzerland and some of the disbanded Knights Templar. The connection involves a battle in the year 1315, which stabilized the young country Switzerland.

http://stutenzeehistoryblog.blogspot.com/2013/08/according-to-swiss-history-writing.html

[Kenemet]

There is a legend in Peru that a group of Tall, metal clothed, gods came ashore in an area that is still called La Misteriosa around 1250...

That legend dates to AFTER the Europeans arrived.

Local legend says they took over the area as rulers and ruled from Chachapoyas. Pizarros scribe mentioned a graveyard of boats. 8-10 in that area then mentioned the Blond haired and sometimes blue eyed people in the mountains around Chachapoyas.

This appears to be something that was made up in the past 50 years or so. Do you have a source for this?

Tall light skinned people later became the body guards of the Incan rulers that came later.

The Incans disagree. The bodyguards came from many areas: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inca_army#Composition

Look at photos of their mummies from 1000 years ago. They definitely dont have the round face of the incas but the long face of the Europeans.

I think you're basing your ideas on cliche stereotypes. If you look at the skulls, they're definitely Incan/Native American in structure.

[back to earth]

There is a legend in Peru that a group of Tall, metal clothed, gods came ashore in an area that is still called La Misteriosa around 1250... Local legend says they took over the area as rulers and ruled from Chachapoyas. Pizarros scribe mentioned a graveyard of boats. 8-10 in that area then mentioned the Blond haired and sometimes blue eyed people in the mountains around Chachapoyas. Tall light skinned people later became the body guards of the Incan rulers that came later.

Perhaps the Knights Templar?

Look at photos of their mummies from 1000 years ago. They definitely dont have the round face of the incas but the long face of the Europeans.

Is that the place they did genetic studies and came up with interesting results ?

Still, it may indicate Europeans .... but its not indicating Templars.

[back to earth]

Chapapoyans were eventually wiped out due to small pox and other disease's from Europe. So if they were originally from Europe, then would have been immune and secondly they would have wiped out the original inhabitants when they arrived.

Ahhh, Harry, you are back !

Why would 'they' have wiped out the original inhabitants when they arrived? Why do you state that ?

Lets add that to the list

10. Why would 'they' have wiped out the original inhabitants when they arrived ?

1. 38% Catholicism is the largest religion but not close to even a majority, ( You said Switzerland was "an independent Catholic Homeland " )

2. The Templar flag is mainly shown as red cross of white the Swiss flag is white cross on red. ( you claimed it was "an identical copy"' in your post # 61)

3. The Swiss guard is the remnant of the old Papal army and they are mercenaries and not representatives of the Swiss government. ( In same post you claimed the vatican uses "The Swiss" to protect them )

4. 10.5% of the Swiss economy is based on financial services and there are seven nations in the world that hold much greater banking resources than Switzerland. ( You said the Swiss were " the bankers of Europe " . )

5. The Swiss have not thrown all women out of the country and all female animals as well.

6. They dont take vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience to Rome.

7. How does the above back up your statement that " There are just so many similarities between the Swiss state and the Templars that you just can't discount the fact that Switzerland is a continuation of the Templar order." ?

8. If the Templars had been loyal, obedient lapdogs, waswas the church so thorough in eradicating them.?

9. How did I "insult my heritage" ? ( your post # 69 )

[back to earth]

I spent a lot of time in Peru...

Another thing to point out is just like the Knights Templar, The Chachapoya, unlike the rest of the people in that area built round buildingsout of stone. Just like the knights Templar. Many still exist today. There are many crosses engraved into rocks that people associate with the Spaniards. However the design is of the plain flared end square cross. Not the stylized crucifix cross of the Conquistadors.

Thats more interesting ! Got any pictures to put up ?

[back to earth]

The following link explains a connection between Switzerland and some of the disbanded Knights Templar. The connection involves a battle in the year 1315, which stabilized the young country Switzerland.

http://stutenzeehist...ry-writing.html

Mhe ... the 'link' seems to be use of a Halbard ... aside from this, the author states " While I do not believe in the Knights Templar settling in the three counties of the Swiss Confederation ... "

Edited December 29, 2015 by back to earth

[questionmark]

Mhe ... the 'link' seems to be use of a Halbard ... aside from this, the author states " While I do not believe in the Knights Templar settling in the three counties of the Swiss Confederation ... "

Quite correct, many of the Templars not arrested in France settled in Portugal, creating some very interesting monasteries and bringing others under their influence.

[Harry_Dresden]

I spent a lot of time in Peru...

Another thing to point out is just like the Knights Templar, The Chachapoya, unlike the rest of the people in that area built round buildingsout of stone. Just like the knights Templar. Many still exist today. There are many crosses engraved into rocks that people associate with the Spaniards. However the design is of the plain flared end square cross. Not the stylized crucifix cross of the Conquistadors.

Sorry for the late reply, I'm busy this time of the year with everyone else's artificial deadlines. Yeah that's interesting that you mention the building styles of the Chapapoyan federation. From the little research I've done it seems different from the Inca. Any thing is possible, and there is absolutely no reason that Europeans couldn't have made it to the America's before Columbus.

Cheers

[Harry_Dresden]

Ahhh, Harry, you are back !

Why would 'they' have wiped out the original inhabitants when they arrived? Why do you state that ?

Lets add that to the list

10. Why would 'they' have wiped out the original inhabitants when they arrived ?

1. 38% Catholicism is the largest religion but not close to even a majority, ( You said Switzerland was "an independent Catholic Homeland " )

2. The Templar flag is mainly shown as red cross of white the Swiss flag is white cross on red. ( you claimed it was "an identical copy"' in your post # 61)

3. The Swiss guard is the remnant of the old Papal army and they are mercenaries and not representatives of the Swiss government. ( In same post you claimed the vatican uses "The Swiss" to protect them )

4. 10.5% of the Swiss economy is based on financial services and there are seven nations in the world that hold much greater banking resources than Switzerland. ( You said the Swiss were " the bankers of Europe " . )

5. The Swiss have not thrown all women out of the country and all female animals as well.

6. They dont take vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience to Rome.

7. How does the above back up your statement that " There are just so many similarities between the Swiss state and the Templars that you just can't discount the fact that Switzerland is a continuation of the Templar order." ?

8. If the Templars had been loyal, obedient lapdogs, waswas the church so thorough in eradicating them.?

9. How did I "insult my heritage" ? ( your post # 69 )

Never left...

[Joe3]

Kenemet

Its just something to think about.

Someone was there, probably before the time of the Templars thou.

The Legend is Moche/Chimu culture. Predates the Inca by many centuries. It is interesting to point out that there are many instances of Blue eyes in Moche/Chimu leadership culture also. Im pretty sure that the eyes were not blue but probably grey. Im not sure if the Templars had blue eyes thou and the Moche culture predates them. Someone came at that time. We will probably never know who.

In the Museo de Oro in Lima downstairs next to the big safe door is a Moche /Chimu blanket or something like that that has a image of dark skinned people meeting light skinned people at the beach. The light skinned people seem to be wearing helmets and caring swords. The ships depicted were much more similar to a Cog than a Caraval.

My Wife is Chachapoyan. She has Light brown hair and grey eyes. She could pass as any European. But her DNA says Amerindian.

My daughter looks just like her. So does the rest of my wife's family. The interesting thing is that when they were born they both had long black hair and black eyes. The black hair fell out around 1yo and grew back light blond which grew darker as they grew and the eyes changed to really bright blue then to grey as they got older. I have light brown hair and blue eyes. My family is from Hawaii. My Dna says Inca and much further back from around turkey.

The blue eyes in Peru are most probably just evolution continuing.

About the mummies. Take a trip thru the catacombs below the churches in Lima. There are millions of skulls there. They all look pretty much the same. But they don't look like the skulls of the Chachapoya mummies. Another thing to note is that the Chachapoyan mummies have male pattern balding or are completely bald. Other Peruvian mummies of 2 or 3000 years older are always with hair. Lots of hair.

The Chachapoyans are probably not from that area. There are too many dissimilarities between them and the others around them. Of course it dosent make them decedents of the Templars either. But who knows.

[jaylemurph]

Kenemet

Its just something to think about.

Someone was there, probably before the time of the Templars thou.

The Legend is Moche/Chimu culture. Predates the Inca by many centuries. It is interesting to point out that there are many instances of Blue eyes in Moche/Chimu leadership culture also. Im pretty sure that the eyes were not blue but probably grey. Im not sure if the Templars had blue eyes thou and the Moche culture predates them. Someone came at that time. We will probably never know who.

In the Museo de Oro in Lima downstairs next to the big safe door is a Moche /Chimu blanket or something like that that has a image of dark skinned people meeting light skinned people at the beach. The light skinned people seem to be wearing helmets and caring swords. The ships depicted were much more similar to a Cog than a Caraval.

My Wife is Chachapoyan. She has Light brown hair and grey eyes. She could pass as any European. But her DNA says Amerindian.

My daughter looks just like her. So does the rest of my wife's family. The interesting thing is that when they were born they both had long black hair and black eyes. The black hair fell out around 1yo and grew back light blond which grew darker as they grew and the eyes changed to really bright blue then to grey as they got older. I have light brown hair and blue eyes. My family is from Hawaii. My Dna says Inca and much further back from around turkey.

The blue eyes in Peru are most probably just evolution continuing.

About the mummies. Take a trip thru the catacombs below the churches in Lima. There are millions of skulls there. They all look pretty much the same. But they don't look like the skulls of the Chachapoya mummies. Another thing to note is that the Chachapoyan mummies have male pattern balding or are completely bald. Other Peruvian mummies of 2 or 3000 years older are always with hair. Lots of hair.

The Chachapoyans are probably not from that area. There are too many dissimilarities between them and the others around them. Of course it dosent make them decedents of the Templars either. But who knows.

I'm unable to find it now, but regarding the Chacapoya or another, similar Amerindian group in South America, there was once an excellent post retelling a journal article. It discussed how genetic isolation over the course of several decades was much more likely to create the physical features you mention than any putative, undocumented European contact.

If anyone posted that or knows where it is to link to, it would add a lot to the conversation.

--Jaylemurph

[Myles]

Kenemet

Its just something to think about.

Someone was there, probably before the time of the Templars thou.

The Legend is Moche/Chimu culture. Predates the Inca by many centuries. It is interesting to point out that there are many instances of Blue eyes in Moche/Chimu leadership culture also. Im pretty sure that the eyes were not blue but probably grey. Im not sure if the Templars had blue eyes thou and the Moche culture predates them. Someone came at that time. We will probably never know who.

In the Museo de Oro in Lima downstairs next to the big safe door is a Moche /Chimu blanket or something like that that has a image of dark skinned people meeting light skinned people at the beach. The light skinned people seem to be wearing helmets and caring swords. The ships depicted were much more similar to a Cog than a Caraval.

My Wife is Chachapoyan. She has Light brown hair and grey eyes. She could pass as any European. But her DNA says Amerindian.

My daughter looks just like her. So does the rest of my wife's family. The interesting thing is that when they were born they both had long black hair and black eyes. The black hair fell out around 1yo and grew back light blond which grew darker as they grew and the eyes changed to really bright blue then to grey as they got older. I have light brown hair and blue eyes. My family is from Hawaii. My Dna says Inca and much further back from around turkey.

The blue eyes in Peru are most probably just evolution continuing.

About the mummies. Take a trip thru the catacombs below the churches in Lima. There are millions of skulls there. They all look pretty much the same. But they don't look like the skulls of the Chachapoya mummies. Another thing to note is that the Chachapoyan mummies have male pattern balding or are completely bald. Other Peruvian mummies of 2 or 3000 years older are always with hair. Lots of hair.

The Chachapoyans are probably not from that area. There are too many dissimilarities between them and the others around them. Of course it dosent make them decedents of the Templars either. But who knows.

Interesting. And welcome to the forum!