'Get tough' on unhealthy - survey

[whoa182]

'Get tough' on unhealthy - survey

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4457330.stm

Many people favour taking a tough line with those who fail to look after their health, a survey has found.

A poll of more than 2,000 people by private health provider Bupa found 34% supported charges for treatment for people who smoke, drink or are obese.

More than four out of 10 favoured some sort of penalty for people they considered to have self-inflicted health problems.

And 8% said people who led an unhealthy lifestyle should be denied treatment.

The survey, which came ahead of Bupa's annual health debate, also found that 47% of people believed the government should increase taxes on cigarettes and alcohol.

Surprising findings

Dr Andrew Vallance-Owen, Bupa group medical director, said: "We were particularly surprised that people have taken such a hardline view on self-inflicted illnesses, with so many saying they should not be treated at all.

"Perhaps this shows a change in public mood and that compassionate Brits are a thing of the past.

"There is clear evidence from this study to support the view that individuals feel they should be accountable for their own health and well-being.

"But, although individuals are ultimately responsible for health, there is also an appetite for the government, and to a certain extent employers, to provide greater support and advice to help them maintain a healthy lifestyle."

Michael Summers, chairman of the Patients Association, said he had little sympathy for patients whose unhealthy lifestyle led to them draining valuable resources.

However, he said: "We have a health service that is free at the point of need, and you can't start changing the rules just because you don't like somebody's lifestyle.

"Some doctors still take the Hippocratic Oath at medical school, and I don't think that is what Hippocrates had in mind."

Mr Summers said the key was to educate people to avoid unhealthy lifestyles.

[seeking]

smoking, drinking, drug, health problems then yes, but obesity problems no, because on some cases the reasoning behind being obese are uncontrolable, also depression leads a lot of people to drink and smoke, and thats no excuse, however depression also leads to eating, at least there isnt an age limit on that....

[whoa182]

Well it doesnt always start with Depression then over eating ...

If you look at a lot of studies it shows that people who don't eat the correct foods are more prone to depression and anxiety. So ignoring information about eating vegetables and fish can lead to depression.

Edited November 24, 2005 by whoa182

[Kismit]

Topic moved.

[SilverCougar]

Well it doesnt always start with Depression then over eating ...

If you look at a lot of studies it shows that people who don't eat the correct foods are more prone to depression and anxiety. So ignoring information about eating vegetables and fish can lead to depression.

WRONG! I eat fish and veggies all the damned time. I live with a vegitarian. I can't escape it. And I'm still clinicly depressed. (last attack I had, was last week. cried for 3 days straight.) It's not always the case with alot of people.

Just like saying all obese people are at fault for being so. Yeah, being born with a genetic problem is deffinatly someone's fault.... And not everyone can afford to even get the surgeries to help with that problem.

Getting rather tired of people just writing off obesity as a personal problem you cause to yourself....

[whoa182]

I'm going on actual statistics. As fish consumption or Omega 3 intake goes down, depression rises. Countries with the highest intake of fish have very low levels of depression - FACT

Fish isn't the only way to make a person less prone to depression, there are certain minerals like magnesium that you need too. Just because you eat veggies all the time doesnt mean you are not deficient. If you were to give me your typical days food, I can add up all nutrients and actually see what you are lacking in.

There was a small piece done with 10 people on a popular tv program, not a lot of people, but they all had depression and some for as much as 10 years! They got in a nutritionist and gave them advice on how to change their mood and feel much better. After a couple of weeks everyone of them turned their life around and felt great after suffering from depression for years. All 10 of them were found to be defiicient in certain nutrients and was alleviated by a good healthy lifestyle.

It's not always the case but a large percentage of cases can be prevented by good nutrition and exersise.

Just being able to easily put on weight doesn't mean they have some genetic defect. You have to remember that to survive we when food is scarce we have to efficiently use our energy and store fat because we don't know when the next meal is. People are dying from too many calories rather than too few. It's not a genetic defect although in our society now we have an abundance of food...

Evolution just hasn't had time to catch up.

Edited November 24, 2005 by whoa182

[evil_kenshin]

like others i agree with the smoking and drinking (well to a degree, a small drink ever now and again shouldn't be a problem) but the obese one is a no

first off where does being slightly overweight and being obese differ? and who's to say people only slightly overweight wouldn't get affected when some doctors would charge? also it is true that some people can't help but be that large due to genetics and it will draw people away from going to the doctors if their gonna be discriminative

this will lead people who fall under those catagories to either go to work sick and thus causing others to be sick or in cases with broken arms and stuff cause their arms to heal in a way that will permanatly harm them thus both options lead to a strain in all work place's, this would do more harm than good and it is immoral to tax someone based on habits

also don't forget some kids are overwieght due to what their parents feed them, and that the parents don't control what the kids eat

Edited November 25, 2005 by evil_kenshin

[saidanddone]

How would there be any way of verifing a self-led unhealthy life? What if doctors could refuse treatment based on personal preference? Some obesity problems are genetic; even though the person eats right, their body improperly uses the nutrients from the food they eat and stores the rest as fat. What if there is a flaw in the part of the genetic code that makes stomach acid? That person's stomach might not make as high a concentration of acid, so their food might not get completely digested. A flaw in the part of the genetic code that makes stomach enzymes (which are the things that really break down food ) makes it...well, I already explained that. They get paid an assload anyway; they should just treat the people. Instead of worrying about this, doctors should brush it off and go on working.

Edited November 25, 2005 by saidanddone

[Craft]

I am sick of seeing all these so called perfect people saying everyone should do this or that. Whatever happened to freedom as long as it does not hurt someone else!! Is everyone so scared of speaking out that they get labelled as crazy or what, but I will tell you one thing, the fumes coming out of your vehicles tail pipe is as harmfull if not more so than smoking, that prepackaged food you are about to eat could be host to a huge amount of cancer causing agents and diseasecausing bacteria. That screen you are currently looking into could cause some type of adverse nerologicial disorder. In other words there is not much in our modern society that does not have some type of adverse effect on us. As long as we remain moral, legal and sane. No one should be able to tell us what to do, or why are those American and British soldiers in Iraq??

Edited November 25, 2005 by Craft

[Elfstone810]

Well, this doesn't really relate to me, since I live in America and can't afford health care anyway but I agree with the people who are saying that obesity isn't necessarily a result of bad lifestyle choices. I have hypothyroidism. Theoretically the drugs I take for it should counter the effect it has on my metabolism, but in fact I still gain weight easily and it is very hard to lose it, even with exercise and dieting. I'm a vegetarian and eat less than anyone I know and I am still overweight. Also I have something called fibromyalgia which makes even normal exercize very painful. (I know! Whine whine! I'm just trying to explain my point here.) Anyway, obesity is not always a result of personal choice. It's bad enough feeling guilty every time you hear someone making snide remarks about overweight Americans.

[Welsh Shaun]

I voted yes and I am a smoker. Smokers and drug users yes. People who are obese no.

All depends if it is self inflicted or society is the cause.

[whoa182]

can't afford health care anyway

don't you get free health care ...

It's bad enough feeling guilty every time you hear someone making snide remarks about overweight Americans.

Genetics hasn't changed in the past 15 years... yet there has been an explosion of obesity in the U.S. 3/4 of adults are overweight ! ! ! This is complete lack of knowledge in nutrition which results in wrong food choices making america fatter. You dont even have to exersise that much anyway, you just consume fewer calories than you expend and you will lose weight.

I've noticed a new trend that young parents in particular don't know how to feed their kids properly or make the wrong choices in what they give their kids. Nutrition needs to be taught from a young age and made compulsory

If this problem kees up we will see nothing like anyone has ever seen before in the number of deaths caused by over consumption of food. Chronic illnesses will rise sharply, lower IQ, more days off sick from work and a higher death rate in middle age leading to a lower average life expectancy

This problem will really be apparent in the next 5-7 years.

Edited November 28, 2005 by whoa182

[Celumnaz]

there's such a thing as free healthcare!?!?!?

a genetic cause of obesity would'nt be classified as "self-inflicted"

who the heck besides the ones screwing up their lives are paying for treatments?

oh, is this some kind of socialized medicine scheme?

the key IS to educate people about unhealthy lifestyles... so, we start with educating those who make bad food choices, then move on to bad sexual choices.

I eat at McDonalds, I'm not fat. I know a guy that has anal cancer and my 15 year old sister-in-law just became a mommy.

[fylgja]

Most people who are overweight, or addicts do not want to be that way. I used to be a nicotine addict, and ridding myself of the nasty addiction was the hardest thing I have ever done. I think MORE money should be put into helping people to overcome their addictions. A lot of health insurance policies do not cover much in terms of rehabilitation for drug addicts or alcoholics, and never cover a thing for nicotine addicts, or weight loss managment programs.

[saidanddone]

can't afford health care anyway

don't you get free health care ...

Not in Amerika!

since I live in America and can't afford health care anyway

Genetics hasn't changed in the past 15 years... yet there has been an explosion of obesity in the U.S. 3/4 of adults are overweight ! ! ! This is complete lack of knowledge in nutrition which results in wrong food choices making america fatter. You dont even have to exersise that much anyway, you just consume fewer calories than you expend and you will lose weight.

McDonalds = Fast Food

Burger King = Fast Food

Wendys = Fast Food

Fast Food + Busy Lifestyles = Fat People

Fat People + Time = Kids

Fat People + Kids = Fat Parents

Fat Parents + Kids + Time = Fat Kids

See?

[SilverCougar]

don't you get free health care ...

AHaha.. no.

If you don't have insurance... you're screwed. Sure the hospital still has to accept you, but you still have to pay them... 400 for the use of a doctor, then 600 for the use of the hospital.

You can tell them you don't have any way to pay them.. they don't listen. I've wracked up a huge bill because of this. Can't flippin pay them.. so.. *shrugs*

Believe me... if we had free healthcare... I would have had my problem tended to. Right now I get the second rate "Well if you're still alive..." treatment that they give the "cannot pay" folks.

Yeah.. I'm bitter about the treatment I get when I have to go to the hospital... What I would do to have a good friend who's a doctor and willing to give me treatments for free... or artwork... whichever...

[earthchick]

Healthcare should be refused to no one.

There are so many causes of obesity that it can not be put under a blanket diagnosis. Even so-called self-inflicted obesity is really caused by emotional and/or mental illness. The obesity is merely a symptom of that illness. Therefore, in such cases the patient should be treated both psychiatrically and physically. IMO no such illness should be classed as self-inflicted.

The same goes for smoking, drinking and drug abuse. They all happen due to underlying emotional/mental problems. To truly help an addict they need to be treated for their emotional/mental problems along with treatment for the physical problems that result.

It's all too easy for people who have no such problems to sit on their high horses and judge those who do. Just keep in mind that saying..."There but for the grace of God go I."

Another poster here already mentioned fibromyalgia. I also have this illness. It is a disorder of the muscles, the main symptom of which is extreme muscle pain. I won't go into a complete explanation, but the gist is that with fibromyalgia one can not over use the muscles without suffering painful consequences. For this reason most of us who have this illness can not do much in the way of physical exercise. I personally would love to go bike riding with my family when they go, would love to join them on the many hikes they do, but I can't, because doing so may put me in bed for a month, with a lot of pain. Therefore, I know my cardiovascular fitness is likely very poor, which may cause me problems down the road, but there is nothing I can do about it, unless and until they come up with a cure for fibromyalgia. So....if I should have a heart attack at age 70 or something similar, should I not be treated, simply left to die, because I didn't keep myself physically fit? I think not!!!!!!!