'Europeans should create Jewish State'

[SilverCougar]

and yet... the palastines and the isrealites are the ones fighting.

Humans are weird...

[I am me]

We can argue that the Israelis were there before Palestinians but how far back did they live there? That would be like handing over the USA to the Indians living in Oklahoma. Actually it would be worse than that becuase it happened even longer ago. The Palestinians had been living in the region for so long that it was rightfully theirs. There was no reason to install a Jewish state in that area. It is never a good thing to force somebody into an area like that. The Iranian leader does have a good point here. He also never said that no jews were killed by the Germans, he just said that he didn't think 6 million were killed. Setting up Israel was a horrible idea but so would be installing a Jewish state anywhere else in the world.

[Celumnaz]

Ok, so Israel has been there for a long time now, let them keep it.

[PLO]

"They were there first. Ever read the Koran? Something about Jews being around before islam? Ever been to a history class? Something about the Romans conquering Isreal? I must have not heard the chapter where the land was given to the palistinians by Ceaser. Somehow I missed that."

the jews conquered that land from the arabs when they came out of egypt u muppet. Also umbergar you havnt the slightest inclin of your history or youd see how evil Israel is, i suppose your great nation of america was a wasteland under its native peoples too yeah, also In 135, the Roman emperor Hadrian changed the name of the Roman province of Syria Judea to Syria Palaestina. Under Arab rule, in 600 the region was renamed Jund Filastin (Arabic جند فلسطين, literally "the army or military district of Palestine".

Also Formal use of the English word "Palestine" returned with the British Mandate. During this period , the name "Eretz Yisrael" was also part of the official name of the territory. Between 1920 and 1922, Palestine was defined by the San Remo Conference as the area bordered by the Mediterranean Sea, Lebanon, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and a short stretch of Red Sea coastline between the latter two. These borders include all of present-day Israel, the West Bank. the Gaza Strip, and Jordan. However, the final text left the borders unspecified After Transjordan was split off from Palestine in 1922, the term Palestine referred to the segment west of the Jordan river. Even before the Mandate came into legal effect in 1922, British terminology applied the word Palestine to the part west of the Jordan River and Trans-Jordan (or Transjordania) to the part east of the Jordan River. This terminology was applied consistently during the Mandate period and it is difficult to find any official documents that use any name other than "Palestine and Trans-Jordan" when referring to the whole area of the Mandate

so u can hopefully see, this are is indeed palestinian land, no?, but then i guess Rotschilds preasurising brittish goverment to create a new jewish state is of course perfectly reasnoble. if somewhat criminaly insane given the trouble its caused, though Israel does act as a good fortress for america in america slowly but surely annexing arab lands, hmmm i cant help but think of mass genocide of native peoples at hand, i wonder who practiced that in their own land not so long ago, oh yeah Hitler, Stalin and America. NICE

No one in their right mind as an intelligent person can justify what Israel does in the middle east, it is illegal barbaric genocide. Thats a fact. And what sickens me is the idiotic brainwashed view ppl have of Palestine being somehow part of this "war on make beleive terror" and ISrael is somehow a glorious peace loving nation, they are scum.

Edited December 9, 2005 by PLO

[.AKUMA.]

You do have some interesting facts there PLO But i dont think calling isreal Evil and a Scum will resolve anything

Edited December 9, 2005 by AKUMA166

[Erikl]

the jews conquered that land from the arabs when they came out of egypt u muppet.

LMAO.

When you claim the above, you claim:

A. That there was actually an Exodus from Egypt... there is no proof of such an event. As a matter of fact, the Jewish presence in this land seem to be a continuation of the pagan presence... which lead many to believe the Jews are actually descendants of Canaanites who began to believe in one god and mixed with immigrants from Egypt and Mesopotamia.

B. if you claim that the Exodus did in fact happen, you actually do support religious jewish claims to the land. How's that settled with you claims that the Jews have no ties to present day Israel?

C. you also claim there were Arabs here before the Exodus. Many people date the Exodus back to 1500 BC, or 3,500 years ago. It can't be much later, because the Egyptians mention the name "Israel" when reffering to a tribe in Canaan by the year 1208 BC, 3,213 years ago.

The first Arabs in history are mentioned by the Assyrians, in 700 BC, when the Assyrians invade northern Arabia (meaning the Arabs still resided in Arabia, some 500 years after the first historical proof of Jewish presence here).

The first archeological evidence of pan-Arabic people, the Nabbateans, dates back to 400 BC, almost a millenia after the name Israel is mentioned by the Egyptians. The first archeological evidence for Jewish presence dates back to 900 BC, some 500 years earlier.

also In 135, the Roman emperor Hadrian changed the name of the Roman province of Syria Judea to Syria Palaestina. Under Arab rule, in 600 the region was renamed Jund Filastin (Arabic جند فلسطين, literally "the army or military district of Palestine".

Also Formal use of the English word "Palestine" returned with the British Mandate. During this period , the name "Eretz Yisrael" was also part of the official name of the territory. Between 1920 and 1922, Palestine was defined by the San Remo Conference as the area bordered by the Mediterranean Sea, Lebanon, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and a short stretch of Red Sea coastline between the latter two. These borders include all of present-day Israel, the West Bank. the Gaza Strip, and Jordan.

So you admit the name Palestine is a later invention, used by the Romans to humiliate the Jews and to erase their ties with their homeland and rootland, and that the Arabs, with no antique ties to the region, simply used the later, Roman name, even though the enemy which they took it from was in fact the Roman empire (that would be the only explanation... I mean what is the point in calling it by the same name your enemy called it, if you knew the name was invented by your enemy and that the land had a previous name that wasn't coined by the enemy?)?

After Transjordan was split off from Palestine in 1922, the term Palestine referred to the segment west of the Jordan river.

It gets even better!

Not only the borders of what the Arabs (and the Palestinians themselves) call "Palestine" was only decided upon after WW1 (by colonial British Empire... how dare they!), the term is so open to interpretation that it was possible to cut off the majority of the territory of 1918-1922 Palestine and rename it to a totaly different state, without anyone still claiming it's Palestine today! Astonishing! Now, how's that different from what happened 25 years later, only with Israel being cut off from the post-WW1 colonial invention, Palestine? Why is it that Trans-Jordan, or modern day Jordan, is not an occupied Palestinian territory, even though it used to constitute 78% of Palestine?

Great job at clarifying the truth, PLO .

[.AKUMA.]

hmm nice job both PLO AND IRIKL you both showed your views and Facts But it Looks like IRIKL has pulled out the truth and he done it in a sensible mannor

[Lord Umbarger]

Interesting addition.

Yes, PLO, I have read "MY" Koran. It is more full of holes than a school bus hit by palistinians. People living thousands of years apart are mentioned as having known and even met each other.

As far as giving the U.S. back to the Amerindians... We kind of have. Most of us living here are decendants of native Americans. I'm one eighth Seminole for instance. Some of the native Americans are not as assimilated. Some of them maintain their tribal beliefs and work with me. Some remain in tribal controled areas where they maintain a high degree of self determination.

Can you possibly say that the New World did not bloom before the Europeans came here? Most people look to that time as a paradise. Comparing pre-Colombian Amreica to Pre-Isreal in the lands of Isreal is at best tilting at windmills. All those years and Jordan never wanted it? Ever wonder why? It simply wasn't worth the trouble. Then, the Jews form a new incarnation of Isreal, and like magic, the waste lands started yeilding food. Most Kibutzers say that it was thier hard work. I wouldn't agrue that point but, I'm sure that there were some arabs who tried. Why did it not work for them? Could it be that G-d is trying to tell the world something? Maybe not but, it damn sure looks that way, don't it?

All those countries attack Isreal at the same time. Not only do they lose but, they also lost enough land to double the size of Isreal! That would be on par with Mexico attacking the U.S. and loosing an area the sise of Canada!!! Oh-yeah, I believe that G-d talks, are you listening?

Can you say the same kinds of things about/for the palistinians? I thought not. Palistinians are the cannon fodder of the arab hate war against the Jews. (Notice the two "N's" in cannon? That denotes a religeous conotation).

[Erikl]

All those years and Jordan never wanted it? Ever wonder why?

Because Jordan didn't even exist untill 1946?

As a matter of fact, Jordan is a completely colonial creation. It's monarch was installed by the British simply because it was pro-British.

[The last diciple of Funk]

Why cant they make the city of jearuselum and international zone....?

That is patroled by the U.N. it is a city that is a very imporatant and holy place for many religions, and seeing all the turmoi nations have gonne to accuire it, why dont make it a place that is owned by no political enitity except that of the world community?

If counties claim that it is ritefully theres and shouldnt be visted by no other people except that if their own religion, and are willing to defend their selfish claim with bloodshed sickens me as a Human Being

Thats why I am Buddhist

However i note that isreal has the right to defend itself as it did when the arab states invaded, and saying Isreal didnt have the right take the land that it did, well maybe if the arab nations would of let them live, maybe they would still have that land

Edited December 12, 2005 by The last diciple of Funk

[pbarosso]

well i hate to say it but iran is going to get themselves into trouble, plo is about to be removed from his membership here at UM, and the U.S. is going to have to police the world. what a crappy eventuality.

instead:

iran can try to get along, PLO can realize that those who live by the sword die by it, and the U.S. can worry about other problems.

or PLO can come over to my house and play some hoop. if i win, plo shuts up and repents. if i loose, well i wont.

[Celumnaz]

http://today.reuters.com/news/newsarticle....AUST.xml&rpc=22

TEHRAN (Reuters) - Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said on Wednesday that the Holocaust was a myth, triggering a fresh wave of international condemnation.

Last week Ahmadinejad first aired his doubts on the veracity of the Holocaust, in which six million Jews were killed by the Nazis. His comments drew a rebuke from the U.N. Security Council.

"They have fabricated a legend under the name 'Massacre of the Jews', and they hold it higher than God himself, religion itself and the prophets themselves," he told a crowd in the southeastern city of Zahedan on Wednesday.

The speech was broadcast live on state television.

European countries called the remarks unacceptable and said they could undermine plans for talks with Tehran on its controversial nuclear program.

Israel said the comments showed Iran's "rogue regime" was acting outside acceptable international norms.

Ahmadinejad, a former Revolutionary Guardsman who was elected president in June, in October called Israel a "tumor" which must be "wiped off the map", provoking a diplomatic storm and stoking up fears about Iran's nuclear ambitions.

Washington accuses Tehran of seeking nuclear weapons. Iran says its nuclear program is only for generating electricity.

German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier said the Holocaust remarks could weigh on European Union efforts to resolve the dispute over Iran's nuclear program.

"The recent remarks by the Iranian president ... are certainly shocking and unacceptable," he told reporters. "I cannot deny that they may weigh on our bilateral relations and naturally also on the chances for the negotiations on (Iran's) so-called nuclear dossier."

Iran's hardline press largely rallied round the president's first Holocaust remarks but the Islamic Iran Participation Front, Iran's leading reformist party, printed a critical statement in the liberal Sharq daily on Wednesday. Continued ...

[Fluffybunny]

Wow, iran is being absolutely insane again...I never saw it coming...what a surprise...

The leadership of that country is just absolutel insane and will drive their country into war and isolation for a long time to come. All of the oil they have will not buy them out of being shunned by the rest of the civilized world and economically isolated...

Nothing surpises me coming out of that place...

[.AKUMA.]

Wow, iran is being absolutely insane again...I never saw it coming...what a surprise...

The leadership of that country is just absolutel insane and will drive their country into war and isolation for a long time to come. All of the oil they have will not buy them out of being shunned by the rest of the civilized world and economically isolated...

Nothing surpises me coming out of that place...

i agree with you every bit Irans leader will drive its own country to war the guy's a maniac