The Rise and Fall of Christianity

[Something Like Laughter]

is this the beginnings of an eschatology fight. i hope so.

ill bring the popcorn.

[mako]

ill bring the popcorn.

Okay, I got the beverages.....what kind do you want?

[zandore]

Zandore, Catholicism is not a Christian religion. Sure, they acknowledge the existence of the Christ, but they choose to worship His mother instead of Him. They also have many religious rituals and practices that Jesus told us not to do, namely, the repeated prayers to Mary.

WRONG! *loaded with sarcasm*

Catholicism has two main ecclesiastical meanings, described in Webster's Dictionary as: a) "the whole orthodox Christian church, or adherence thereto"; and "the doctrines or faith of the Roman Catholic church, or adherence thereto."

Source-1

Ca·thol·i·cism (kə-thŏl'ĭ-sĭz'əm)

The faith, doctrine, system, and practice of a Catholic church, especially the Roman Catholic Church.

Source-2

Or you can just use Google (< a link) like I did.

Okay, I got the beverages.....what kind do you want?

What do you got?

[mako]

Coke, Pepsi, Iced Tea, coffee, fruit juices, etc - no alcoholic beverages, my liver ya know.

[zandore]

You got some sun tea?

[user26071]

I see it as nature taking course, in about 100 years I wouldent be surprised if anyone who believes in Christianity or Judaism or Islam would be labeled as a nut job...

But its all relative. The Greeks thought they were right, and they're religion, no longer exists. Rise and fall of religions, but with all the scientific thought nowadays...I see in 100 years it will be Atheists, Agnostics, and Wiccans...Wicca is becoming popular nowadays. =/

[user26071]

I wonder if the ancient Greeks thought the same thing regarding their religion?

Exactly why I don't have religion. Religions come and go, eventually branded as lunacy, then new ones come...bah...I'll stick with science. Atleast Science has the guts to admit when its not 100% sure on something...

[Irish]

I'll have a pint of Guinness as I am unsure if they make it in heaven. So I will take no chances and get as much as I can while I am here .

Hyper is right that Christianity is on the decline one day very soon we will all be gone:

( 1TH 5:2) For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

In the twinkling of an eye we shall be out of here whiles the reno team goes to work.

1 Cor 15:51 Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

But that is just our Christian opinion, so after you all have recovered from the farewell party maybe you will give it a second thought.

Irish

[Nxt2Hvn]

That's right Irish.. then end of times nears...

Jesus said that the last days would be preceded by several things: many false Christs would come, deceiving many; we would “hear of wars and rumors of wars”; and there would be an increase in “famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. All these are the beginning of sorrows” (Matthew 24:5-8). Today’s news is full of apostate religions, warfare, and natural disasters. We know that events of the Tribulation will include all that Jesus predicted (Revelation 6:1-8); what we see today seems to be a build-up for greater trouble ahead.

Paul warned that the last days would bring a marked increase in false teaching. “In the latter times, some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils” (1 Timothy 4:1). The last days are described as “perilous times” because of the increasingly evil character of man and people who actively “resist the truth” (2 Timothy 3:1-9; see also 2 Thessalonians 2:3). Our Twenty-first Century world has embraced moral relativism, tainting even the church. For example, many denominations are having a hard time defining marriage as being between one man and one woman, and many religious leaders today are openly supporting homosexuality. The Bible has become subordinate to the modern church’s quest for a more appealing “truth.” These are indeed “perilous times” spiritually.

The formation of the European Union—and the fact that we have a reunified Germany—is very interesting in light of biblical prophecy. The “ten toes” of Daniel 2:42 and the ten-horned beasts of Daniel 7:20 and Revelation 13:1 are references to a “revived” Roman Empire which will hold power before Christ returns. The pieces seem to be falling into place, politically.

In 1948, Israel was recognized as a sovereign state, and this, too, has ramifications for the student of scripture. God promised Abram that his posterity would have Canaan as “an everlasting possession” (Genesis 17:8), and Ezekiel prophesied a physical and spiritual resuscitation of Israel (Ezekiel 37). Having Israel as a nation in its own land is important in light of end-time prophecy, because of Israel’s prominence in eschatology (Daniel 10:14; 11:41; Revelation 11:8).

[mako]

Nope... jesus said that this generation will not pass away until all is fulfilled... Two ways that it is true... One is that his death and resurrection HAS brought in the Kingdom age to Earth, at least the spritual aspects of its reality, as those who called upon His name would continue to be saved throughout History... Also, generation can mean /refer to this race shall not pass away , so the continuing existence of the jewish peoples, and now Isreak reborn, would point to validity of His promise too...

Matthew

24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

24:34Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Luke

21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

21:29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;

21:30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.

21:31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.

21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled

Mark

13:24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,

13:25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.

13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

13:27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

13:28 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near:

13:29 So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors.

13:30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.

Sorry, if you will read Matthew, Mark and Luke, they say exactly what I said, there is no way to twist this to mean race, since even in Greek a generation is a group of individuals born and living contemporaneously, whereas a race is a family, tribe, people or nation belonging to the same stock (something you cannot claim for a religion of the scope of Christianity). The gospels state that this generation (which, since it is supposed to be Jesus speaking, would mean the generation that was living at that time) will not pass, till all these things be done! It didn’t happen, and that was two thousand years ago, so no amount of tap dancing, speaking of kingdoms and race will make this go away. Too often Christians attempt to read into their scriptures in a vain effort to do away with an obvious contradiction. They are being untruthful to everyone, including themselves, when they do this. If the scripture can’t stand on it’s own without having to be explained with material that is not even mentioned in it’s corpus, then it is very evident that the scripture is naught more than base mythology. He promised to return before this generation shall pass, he didn't and Christians have been trying to explain it ever since then!

[GreyWeather]

Zandore, Catholicism is not a Christian religion. Sure, they acknowledge the existence of the Christ, but they choose to worship His mother instead of Him. They also have many religious rituals and practices that Jesus told us not to do, namely, the repeated prayers to Mary.

well, christians worship jesus. when he clearly stated "worship no-one else but from god". now you may say jesus is god, but no, he is his SON, not god, not his daughter, his son.

so really, christianity is going against what jesus taught

[LoopyLou]

Well actually Jesus, God and the Holy Spirit are all the same..ever heard of the Trinity?

[Irish]

Matthew 24:34Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Luke 21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled

Math13:30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.

What generation is Jesus speaking about?

i. The disciple's generation? No way

ii. The generation that sees the fig tree (Israel) restored? Probably not; the fig tree is not a consistent figure of Israel, and another interpretation makes better sense

iii. Rather, it is the generation who sees these signs; these events and Christ's return won't be on some 1,000 year timetable MY PICK

iv. Or, the word generation can also be understood as a race or people; Jesus may be promising that the Jewish race will not perish before history comes to a conclusion

Source http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/c/1...34843-9744.html

[Something Like Laughter]

and that mako, is why i am a preterist.

[mako]

notice the tense of the statement...it is present tense, not future tense. The generation being discussed is the one existing at the time of the statement.

and that mako, is why i am a preterist.

a belief system that has just about as much backing as does Jehovah's Witnesses! Maybe even a little less.

[GreyWeather]

Well actually Jesus, God and the Holy Spirit are all the same..ever heard of the Trinity?

yes I have, and it makes no sense.

jesus was 'gods' son, therfore not making him a god, but a gods son. but i don't beleive that, all he was, really, was a prophet. nothing wrong in that, preaching around about his faith and such.

but the trinity is strange anyway, if jesus was to be god, he wouldn't be called 'gods' son, he'd be called god. and he'd rule the earth because hes appariently all powerful.

and still, jesus never said he was the lord god. and he also said "worship no-one else, but from the lord god". and now people go against that and instead worship jesus

but if you mean whats inside him that links him to god. then we'd all have that, because aren't we all gods son's and daughters.

[hyperactive]

Leliel,

christians never accept that their man-ilolizing is in direct violation of the laws jesus spoke of. mention they are a cult-splintergroup that basically bastardized everything in jewish tradition and they reply with the old "all in one; the trinity" explanation.

[LoopyLou]

I guess it does sound pretty strange and you really do have to have an open mind when it comes to some of the different parts to Christianity! Lol! Google How did Jesus describe himself and you'll find that he did refer to himself as the Lord God several times. The basic principles of Christianity seem really simple to me and do make sense..but it's all personal beliefs really!

Also there are several quotes in the Old Testament that mention the trinity which shows that it wasnt just aded on in the New Testament as an afterthought!

Edited December 20, 2005 by LoopyLou

[Jesusfan]

well, christians worship jesus. when he clearly stated "worship no-one else but from god". now you may say jesus is god, but no, he is his SON, not god, not his daughter, his son.

so really, christianity is going against what jesus taught

Book of Hebrews makes it quite clear that the Angels were all said to worship the Son, Jesus Christ, and Thomas called Him "my Lord and My God!"... Also, Paul said that one day ALL will be forced to acknowledge that Jesus is Lord, that He is Son of God...

Jewish leaders attempted to stone Jesus, as several times He called God His Father, and they took it as claiming to be equal to God...

Interesting that while jesus called God His father, He constantly seperated His Sonship as different from that of his followers... He said that He would go back to His God and Father, and their God and father... Jesus was/is the ONLY begotten Son , unique by His nature, while rest who believe in Him are adopted as Chldren of God...

Finally, ruler came and asked him one day what he had to do to "earn" eternal life... he called Jesus a "good" teacher... Jesus replied and asked why did he call him a "good" teacher, as only God could be considered good? Jesus was at that point asking the man if he truly believed that Jesus was God, and He was preparing him to receive His true nature, but man refused Him and turned away...

[Grandpa Greenman]

I ask my neighbor why Protestant say Catholics aren't Christian and she told me and now I can't remember what she said. (If I had another beer I bet I would remember.) I know it didn't have anything to with worshiping Mary. I think it has to do with Protestants worshiping Jesus over God. I'll have to ask her tomorrow. It is to late to call her now.

I am in the religion I am in now because it agrees with science. I came to it through science. The more I look into advanced physic the more I learn about my religion. Many Pagans say science is catching up with the craft. I am not sure about that, but my religion is flexible enough that science works well with it. Christianity works at odds with science and that will be its down fall. It is too ridged, that is were Deist, Pagans, and other non-book religions have the advantage. We learn from nature as science does. When the Abrahamic religions fight their war and the dust settles we people of the Earth will come out of what is left of the deep forests and start over. Here is something I just read in a book on Druidry about the difference between book religions and earth religions.

The Druid Way

Philip Carr-Gomm

p. 9

"With 'revealed' religions our source of inspiration is the revelations of one person - such as Jesus, Muhammad, or the Buddha. Teachings that depend for their sole source of inspiration on the message of one person (almost invariably a man) include not only the major world religions, but also most guru-centred movements. The 'earth religion' - in complete contrast - teach that our prime source of learning and inspiration is the earth herself. Here there are no sacred books to kill or die for - no dogmas to defend or dispute; only Nature herself in all her grandeur and simplicity, to guide and inspire us."

The numbers of people coming back to the ways of the Earth are growing.

Every year our Circles grow larger, while the numbers in Churches grow smaller. The Tide is turning. The Earth is calling her people.

TNO, who wrote your post and is there a link?

Edited December 20, 2005 by Darkwind

[RisenPrism]

Mako, you've said in another thread that you dislike the Bible, but here you are quoting it. Have you had a change of heart- or, more likely, do you just dislike some of the Bible?

[mako]

Mako, you've said in another thread that you dislike the Bible, but here you are quoting it. Have you had a change of heart- or, more likely, do you just dislike some of the Bible?

I consider the bible to be nothing more than mythology, it is not a matter of liking or disliking it, I have no more regard for it than I do for Greek, Celtic, Persian, Hindu or Teutonic mythology. I quote your mythology to point out the inconsistencies between what Christians try to push as explanations and what the mythology says. I would quote from the Books of Mahayana, the Vedas, the Koran, the Zend-Avesta or the I Ching if I were debating a Buddhist, Hindu, Moslem, Zoroastrian, or Confucian for the very same reasons that I quote from the bible. Otherwise, the bible does not enter my sphere of awareness, even though I am probably more cognizant of it than the average Christian.

[Lamont Cranston]

I consider the bible to be nothing more than mythology

an outlook not unlike mine! - Da Shadow

[scoobysnack]

Christianity must be destroyed in order to usher in the world government.

This position is corroborated by Dr. Johannes B. Koeppl, Ph.D. a former German defense ministry official and advisor to former NATO Secretary General Manfred Werner. On November 6, he told FTW, “The interests behind the Bush Administration, such as the CFR, The Trilateral Commission – founded by Brzezinski for David Rockefeller – and the Bliderberger Group, have prepared for and are now moving to implement open world dictatorship within the next five years. They are not fighting against terrorists. They are fighting against citizens.”

---------------------------

"We are on the verge of a global transformation. All we need is the right major crisis and the nations will accept the New World Order."

David Rockefeller

-------------------------

"...This regionalization is in keeping with the Tri-Lateral Plan which calls for a gradual convergence of East and West, ultimately leading toward the goal of "one world government'....National sovereignty is no longer a viable concept..."

Zbigniew Brezinski, National Security Advisor to President Jimmy Carter

----------------------------

"There is a chance for the President of the United States to use this (9-11) disaster to carry out ... a new world order."

--Gary Hart, at a televised meting organized by the CFR in Washington, D.C. Sept 14.

"The current world situation has been deliberately created by these elites who manipulate both the so-called 'right' and the so-called 'left'. By controlling the resulting 'synthesis' - the end result of Hegelian 'thesis' and 'antithesis' - a Globalist New World Order is produced. You can call it techno-fascism or techno-feudalism, but the result is the same- a global consolidation and mega-corporate transnational centralization of power, capital and resources. And how does it work? By using 'managed conflict' or 'crisis management'. A crisis or problem is produced. Then the crisis is 'managed' and the problem is 'solved' with an outcome that is invariably favorable to the goals and agendas of the Global Power Elite."

- Antony Sutton, America's Secret Establishment

The New World Order will have to be built from the bottom up rather than from the top down...but in the end run around national sovereignty, eroding it piece by piece will accomplish much more than the old fashioned frontal assault."

----- CFR member Richard Gardner, writing in the April l974

issue of the CFR's journal, Foreign Affairs

“The CFR, dedicated to one-world government, financed by a number of the largest tax-exempt foundations, and wielding such power and influence over our lives in the areas of finance, business, labor, military, education and mass communication-media, should be familiar to every American concerned with good government and with preserving and defending the U.S. Constitution and our free-enterprise system. Yet, the nation’s right-to-know machinery, the news media, usually so aggressive in exposures to inform our people, remain conspicuously silent when it comes to the CFR, its members and their activities. The CFR is the establishment. Not only does it have influence and power in key decision-making positions at the highest levels of government to apply pressure from above, but it also finances and uses individuals and groups to bring pressure from below, to justify the high level decisions for converting the U.S. from a sovereign Constitutional Republic into a servile member state of a one-world dictatorship.”

--Rep. John R. Rarick of Louisiana, 1971

"This may cost me everything that I have, but I’ve got to get out and alert the American People. The Trilateral Commission represents a skillfully coordinated effort to seize control and consolidate the four centers of power, political, monetary, intellectual, and ECCLESIASTICAL. What the Trilateralists intend is the creation of a world—wide economic power superior to the government of the nation states. In other words, what they are driving, orchestrating, meshing, and gearing to accomplish is the New World Order, the one-world government. What the Trilaterals truly intend is the creation of a worldwide economic (money—banking) power superior to the political government of the nation—states involved. As managers and creators of the system THEY WILL RULE THE WORLD." ― Senator Barry Goldwater — With No Apologies 1980 pg. 299

I came to Strasbourg convinced of the need for a united States of Europe. I leave with certainty that union is possible today. I feel like I'm part of the old roman empire.

We do not want another commmittee. We have too many already. What we want is a man of sufficient stature to hold the allegiance of all people, and to lift us out of the economic morass in which we are sinking. Send us such a man and be he God or the devil, we will recienve him.

Paul Henry Spock( former belgian PM) August 1949 at European community

"We are at present working discreetly with all our might to wrest this mysterious force called sovereignty out of the clutches of the local nation states of the world. All the time we are denying with our lips what we are doing with our hands."

Arnold Toynbee, "The Trend of International Affairs Since the War", International Affairs, November 1931, p. 809

"To achieve world government, it is necessary to remove from the minds of men their individualism, loyalty to family traditions, national patriotism, and religious dogmas."

-Brock Adams, Director UN Health Organization

"We shall have world government whether or not you like it, by conquest or consent."

James Warburg (Council on Foreign Relations), Statement to The Senate Foreign Relations Committee on February 17th, l950

"Global controls will have to be imposed

And a world governing body will be created to enforce them

Crises precipitate change."

Deltron 3030, intro lyrics-Virus

"The existing order is breaking down at a very rapid rate, and the main uncertainty is whether mankind can exert a positive role in shaping a new world order or is doomed to await collapse in a passive posture. We believe a new order will be born no later than early in the next century and that the death throes of the old and the birth pangs of the new will be a testing time for the human species."

Richard A. Falk, in an article entitled "Toward a New World Order: Modest Methods and Drastic Visions," in the book On the Creation of a Just World Order (1975)

"In the next century, nations as we know it will be obsolete; all states will recognize a single, global authority. National sovereignty wasn't such a great idea after all."

Strobe Talbot, President Clinton's Deputy Secretary of State, as quoted in Time, July 20th, l992.

"We are not going to achieve a New World Order without paying for it in blood as well as in words and money."

Arthur Schlesinger Jr., 'The CFR Journal Foreign Affairs', August 1975

Edited December 23, 2005 by scoobysnack

[zandore]

iv. Or, the word generation can also be understood as a race or people; Jesus may be promising that the Jewish race will not perish before history comes to a conclusion

Source http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/c/1...34843-9744.html

Irish in the Bible how are the Jewish people referred to? By what name/names?