A Good Thing Surely, Yes?

[Stellar]

all you people saying guns are bad and we need to get rid of them, you're the ones that are gonna get us enslaved!

Oh I'm sure we are

To say that guns are the only thing keeping you from enslavement just shows your lack of confidence in your government and the system btw.

its the decent people who do own firearms, who keep the peace.

Is it? I dont see any of these decent people keeping the peace, I see the police officers doing so.

the cops won't, infact cops as a whole have a higher criminality rate than citizens

I suppose thats why you take the law into your own hands and never resort to calling the police, no matter what, right?

Hitler and Stalin didn't think that the commen people needed guns either.

Oh, in THAT case, these people who dont want the populus to own guns are evil nazi commies.

If I smuggled an illegal gun into the country and held you at gun point while my buddy raped your mother, would you like to have a gun or a phone to call the police with???????

If this was in a country like the US, chances are I'd get searched and lose that weapon in the first place...

And if I reached for either, the gun or the phone, I'm likely to get shot before doing anything useful. On the otherhand... the person could be a licenced owner of the gun who cracked. If guns were banned... he might just not be there pointing a gun to my head.

Well, to each thier own but, as for me, I'd send that SOB back to his maker in Hell for some factory reconditioning.

Ok. Go ahead and try that superman.

You seem to have a problem with gun owner ship. Did your father ever take you hunting when you were a child?

Nope and I wouldnt want to.

Did he ever build a fire and show you how to cook meat over it?

Nope. So what?

Did he ever show you that there is more to life than going to work and acting like a good little pawn?

Sure. Guns arent that though.

Did he ever teach you the value of a life?

Hence why we dont go hunting.

Did he ever show you the importance of respecting it?

He didnt need to show me the importance of respecting it, I picked it up myself. So... I need a gun to respect life?

Did he ever make you eat the meat of what you killed?Did he ever take you out in the woods and tell you that "tonight, dinner depends on you son"?

Nope. Whats your point?

(My Dads words, not mine. Marines and soldiers will understand).

Im a soldier... I understand what he says... but individually, we dont matter in the world scheme of things. Its only as a group that the average person matters.

Did he ever make a man of you?

Oh, obviously he didnt since he never took me hunting

Did he ever teach you that you're not just some guardian of the animals but, one of them?

Im quite aware that I'm one of them. Thats why I dont go needlessly hunting.

Did your father love you? Did you ever get to know him? Was he there when you failed? Were you there when he failed? Did you ever learn the meaning of freedom?

Oh, apparently not since he didnt give me a gun, correct?

Were you more afraid of telling your dad that you lost a fight than getting suspended from school for fighting? If so, did you fight harder the next time? Did he tell you to get into a fight with a person who hit a girl? I hope so.

I didnt get into fights at school. Not many people here do. Maybe we're just more peaceful in nature and thats why we can live without guns. Thats probably school shootings are as common here.

Did he teach you to look for things that you cannot do, and do them? Did he ever take you into the backyard and put a rake in your hand? Did he ever break the stick off from the rake head and teach you to fence?

I managed to do that myself.

Have you ever been alone in the woods, or out in the swamp, or miles away from a city, by choice and not been afraid? I can, and I thank my Father for it.

Hahahaha. Plenty of times. So what does this have to do with guns?

Did you ever get a spanking for not saluting the flag?

Did your father ever spank you? Do you salute the flag and the men who carry it and die for it? Do you salute them when the flag is not there? Ever been in a fight when you were a teen with someone who was bigger than you because they burned it? Did you beat the hell out of them?

Yes to saluting the flag, no to getting into a fight with a teen. People dont burn flags up here. I'm still waiting to see the relevance of guns.

If you answered "No" to the previous questions, then you'll never know why I own a rifle. You will find yourself unable to fathom why I am able to shoot with accuracy. You'll sit in some house and bang away on the keyboard about how guns are evil and how the U.S. is the devil. You'll be happy with that as long as the cheetos flow freely and the talkshows never end. And one day you'll go to the funeral of an Uncle or a brother or a neighbor. You'll see the respect of the color guard and the flag in the wind and the uniforms and you'll realize that you're too old to be a part of it. The conductor of the service will do it in English, Latin, Hebrew, and/or a myriad other languages. You'll think of Christmas' Chanukas, Kwanzaas, and other celebrations past, and you'll miss them.

What I do see, from your questions, that your society does seem more violent than up here. Do you award violence with weapons?

They did it for the same reason that all of them have done it. So that little Susie dressing her Barbie will never HAVE to dress a wound. So that little Billy, will never HAVE to wear a dog tag that didn't come from the GI-Joe/ Action-Man fan Club. They died for a fight that you hated so that he can be a builder, not a RE-builder and she can be a Mother , not a weaping mother.

They were willing so that you would not have to be. They were heros so that you would not have to be.

Im still failing to grasp what that has to do with the average person owning a gun...

And in the morning, you'll miss work, so that you can go and "protest the war".

Protest the war? I dont do that... but whats wrong with doing so? Afterall, those men and women who died, died to give you free speech, no?

all you have to do is look at new orleans. it was THE ARMED PEOPLE who kept order in their local developments, not the cops.

I tend to remember hearing lots of looting going on, and helicopters getting shot at...

remember, criminals will always be criminals. you're going against all conventional data, the more people that are armed, the less crime there is. it's just a fact of society.

Ahahahah

"Give them the means to commit more brutal crimes, and the criminals wont commit crimes"

AHahahaha

In that case, why does the US want to stop other countries from getting WMDs? Afterall, the world will be safer if they get them, right?

You sure? And food is linked to millions of death each year in poisoning,

The problem, in that case, is not the food but the poison.

poor diets,

Fortunately, those poor diets arent killing those who dont eat them.

AND you still eat it rather then going the safer route.

I still eat it? Are you sure?

No but, they can't can't kill soomeone who breaks into your home. And anyone who breaks into mine, will leave feet first.

Just as food cant be used by the person breaking into my home in order to kill me. Just as food cant be taken to school to kill teachers and other students.

[XNavyGunner]

Just as food cant be used by the person breaking into my home in order to kill me. Just as food cant be taken to school to kill teachers and other students.

Right, like thugs break into homes with food? Use an arguement that makes sense.

[PadawanOsswe]

Oh and about the cops.Britain doesn't have guns.The cops don't have guns either.Explain this please?Pretty please?!

*laughs histerically* You think we aren't slaves now?Especially in America.You are a good American citizen though because you believe everything the government tells you *thumbs up*

One day when we are rid of all the guns we can finally live in peace. And personally I can't wait till the day we can all live in peace,love,and harmony.

actually if you have firearms licence in Britian you can own an operational firearm.

[PadawanOsswe]

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State,

the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."-2nd Amendment of The U.S. Constitution.

our firearms rights are to protect us from not only foriegn enemies, not only criminals, but to protect us from our own government as well.

the 2nd amendment has ensured all of the others

[Stellar]

Right, like thugs break into homes with food? Use an arguement that makes sense.

The point WAS that it didnt make sense, just as the initial analogy between guns and food didnt make sense.

[__Kratos__]

The point WAS that it didnt make sense, just as the initial analogy between guns and food didnt make sense.

Guns can kill if used wrongly.

Food can kill if you don't eat right.

It was simple... didn't know it had to be complexed.

[Piney]

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State,

the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."-2nd Amendment of The U.S. Constitution.

our firearms rights are to protect us from not only foriegn enemies, not only criminals, but to protect us from our own government as well.

the 2nd amendment has ensured all of the others

One of the primary reasons the Japanese did not invade the West Coast was because of private gun owners. A general of the Imperial Japanese Army was quoted saying as much.

Lapi'che

[Piney]

Guns can kill if used wrongly.

Food can kill if you don't eat right.

It was simple... didn't know it had to be complexed.

lol! See "Supersize Me"

lapi'che

[Thanato]

europe and canada have more authoritarian laws than the united states..

Can you name some of these Canadian laws?

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State,

the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."-2nd Amendment of The U.S. Constitution.

Yup A well regulated militia, dont see many of those these days. According to that those are the only civilians to have fire arms. So you Yanks form up in your Militias.

I live in a area were 3 out of 5 people own a firearm, hell my friend owns 50 of em. Its just he uses them in a Collection and hunting, and not the security of his house. He allways keeps em locked, safety on with Trigger Gaurd, with ammo in another cabnet. And hes a big Hunter.

~Thanato

[__Kratos__]

Yup A well regulated militia, dont see many of those these days. According to that those are the only civilians to have fire arms. So you Yanks form up in your Militias.

I live in a area were 3 out of 5 people own a firearm, hell my friend owns 50 of em. Its just he uses them in a Collection and hunting, and not the security of his house. He allways keeps em locked, safety on with Trigger Gaurd, with ammo in another cabnet. And hes a big Hunter.

~Thanato

No...

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

It's the right of all citizens.

[JesseTheMutt]

No...

It's the right of all citizens.

You think we still have rights in America?We are all just government property and are lied to everyday and told what to do,believe,think and are owned by the government.I can't wait till I get out of this country.

[__Kratos__]

You think we still have rights in America?We are all just government property and are lied to everyday and told what to do,believe,think and are owned by the government.I can't wait till I get out of this country.

This thread is about Guns, not little rants about the US Goverment. Perhaps you should learn how to read properly?

[JesseTheMutt]

This thread is about Guns, not little rants about the US Goverment. Perhaps you should learn how to read properly?

hehe.Well who controls the guns?And who else talks about the outlawing guns?A lot more people than I in this topic.So please don't talk to me unless you want to tell everyone else that talks with me about the same thing to do it.And guess what?I'll still talk about it here as long as someone wants to listen.I still love you though my brother.Just treat me better.Peace

[aquatus1]

My dog is my property, but he still has rights. Doesn't matter whether he knows it or not. The government will enforce his rights, regardless what my opinion on the matter is.

I used to be government property, but not anymore. Was I lied to? Nope. They didn't have to. I already knew what I was getting myself into when I signed the dotted line. By all means help yourself out of this country. I'm sure the other countries will offer you much more freedom.

The 2nd amendment makes it very clear that the people being referred to as having the right to bear weapons are the same people that are needed for a well-regulated militia. To say that it is the right of all citizens top bear arms would include with it the responsibility of all citizens to be a part of a well-regulated militia. Whether one supports the right to bear arms or not, one cannot simply cut the 2nd amendment in half and decide which half one wishes to promote. It's all one sentence, take it or leave it.

Once upon a time, I considered it a necessity for everyone to have the right to bear arms. I still sort of do, however I doubt I could generate the enthusiasm I once had. It is, unfortunately, too clear to me that something of this level should not be a right, but rather a priviledge. Personally, I would have the right to keep and bear arms for all citizens, regardless of militias (well-regulated or otherwise), contingent upon a certification test to ensure the safety and responsibility concerning use of firearms. Quite frankly, I simply do not trust the average person with a device designed for the purpose of killing enough to allow them blanket leave of use without ensuring some level of education on the subject. Heck, cars aren't even weapons of destruction, and they have a required level of skill prior to licensing.

[JesseTheMutt]

My dog is my property, but he still has rights. Doesn't matter whether he knows it or not. The government will enforce his rights, regardless what my opinion on the matter is.

I used to be government property, but not anymore. Was I lied to? Nope. They didn't have to. I already knew what I was getting myself into when I signed the dotted line. By all means help yourself out of this country. I'm sure the other countries will offer you much more freedom.

The 2nd amendment makes it very clear that the people being referred to as having the right to bear weapons are the same people that are needed for a well-regulated militia. To say that it is the right of all citizens top bear arms would include with it the responsibility of all citizens to be a part of a well-regulated militia. Whether one supports the right to bear arms or not, one cannot simply cut the 2nd amendment in half and decide which half one wishes to promote. It's all one sentence, take it or leave it.

Once upon a time, I considered it a necessity for everyone to have the right to bear arms. I still sort of do, however I doubt I could generate the enthusiasm I once had. It is, unfortunately, too clear to me that something of this level should not be a right, but rather a priviledge. Personally, I would have the right to keep and bear arms for all citizens, regardless of militias (well-regulated or otherwise), contingent upon a certification test to ensure the safety and responsibility concerning use of firearms. Quite frankly, I simply do not trust the average person with a device designed for the purpose of killing enough to allow them blanket leave of use without ensuring some level of education on the subject. Heck, cars aren't even weapons of destruction, and they have a required level of skill prior to licensing.

*sigh*I don't even know where to begin with you.

[PadawanOsswe]

jesse, aquatus made a good point. its simply the right if one so chooses to own a firearm, whats wrong with that?

there are restrictions you know? I cant go down to any old store and buy an AK. the average citezen can buy a bolt action or a semi-automatic firearm. but for an automatic you either

A. need to be Military or Law Enforcement

B. need to be a Class 3 firearms dealer.

C. have to have a fortune to get your license, weapon, and pay the taxes for the weapon.

...and above all else you would also need to have a background check.

they dont just hand over any firearm without question.

Edited December 26, 2005 by PadawanOsswe

[Stellar]

Guns can kill if used wrongly.

Guns kill others if used wrongly.

Food can kill if you don't eat right.

Lack of proper routine when eating a certain way still doesnt kill others.

[aquatus1]

*sigh*I don't even know where to begin with you.

Don't try comparing my opinions with yours. Don't try playing the patriot card. Don't try playing on emotion.

Do try pointing out where my logic fails in responding to the points that you made. Notice that I did include logic in everyone of my responses, instead of merely making claims and expecting others to believe them at face value.

You don't trust the government? Fine. I do, to a certain extent. You want to leave the country? Fine, go ahead. I do not. I am quite happy here. You believe your freedom is in trouble? Good luck finding a country with more freedoms.

[PLO]

somalia

[__Kratos__]

What would you suggest then PLO? It's basic people believe "Who will guard the guards." and very few will just hand over their guns.

I know I wouldn't give up my guns and lay down to a goverment or ruling power.

Say you lived 700 years ago... would you be against the sword or the bow? Hell... are you against the sword and bow right now? I've got a couple swords and a bow in the basement. I can't be the only person on earth with one of those.

Edited December 26, 2005 by __Kratos__

[aquatus1]

It's worth pointing out that when the crossbow was first introduced, it was regarded as such a dangerous weapon (since any pig farmer could pick one up and shoot someone through their armor), that the leaders of the land banned it from use.

[PadawanOsswe]

somalia

I assume that was a joke?

[jjtss]

For Senior Citizens I recommend the following priorities:

1.)Enough monthly income (about $3600/mo)

2.)A well oiled Gun with ammunition

3.)Medicare (which may or may not be necessary if you have the second item)

[__Kratos__]

Between 1977 and 1992, 10 states adopted right-to-carry laws. Dr. Lott's study found that the implementation of these laws created:

-- no change in suicide rates,

-- a .5% rise in accidental firearm deaths,

-- a 5% decline in rapes,

-- a 7% decline in aggravated assaults,

-- and an 8% decline in murder

[aquatus1]

There are three types of deception: Lies, Damn lies, and Statistics.