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PLO

A Good Thing Surely, Yes?

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PLO

lol yes padawan it was a joke, but it also wasnt. Somalia is in a state of anarchy, so technicaly there is no law and i could effectively do whatever i wanted, i would be free in the sense that their is no legal restrictions on my activities. But of course that would be completey insane as your likely to get shot in a matter of seconds if you were caught walkin about anywhere in down town mogadishu.

But i think ppl have missd the point, i wasnt talking about gun control in america, the post was about international arms dealing and proffiteering from war. Big difference.

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Lord Umbarger

Of course all four year olds can shoot gun! That's why you find so many four year olds being drafted to be snipers!

Just keep telling yourself that John Lennon had all the answers.

Just keep telling yourself that he would have lived past his teens if he'd been born in North Korea.

Just keep believing in Smurfs and the U.N. (Unified Ninkompoops), and the rest of us will lock and load and make sure that you're free to do so.

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I am me

plo. why do most 2nd and third world nation use ak-47's. poor soldiers. almost feel sorry for them.

guns yes we all need them. daily. not to use them but to keep them as deterrents only to use if needed.

the AK is a good gun. built very well, probably why they are so widely used.

if somebody wants to buy something and somebody wants to sell it, let them trade!

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Mekorig

Of course all four year olds can shoot gun! That's why you find so many four year olds being drafted to be snipers!

Just keep telling yourself that John Lennon had all the answers.

Just keep telling yourself that he would have lived past his teens if he'd been born in North Korea.

Just keep believing in Smurfs and the U.N. (Unified Ninkompoops), and the rest of us will lock and load and make sure that you're free to do so.

Lord Umbarger, the guys in the militia are worried about you. Since you have internet they fear that you will read "un-american" ideas, or what you will be traced by the evil federals. Go back and arm yourself....the evil pinko commie pacifist liberal feds are coming

for your family, to steal your women and rape your horses........ :P

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Stellar

Of course all four year olds can shoot gun!

Lol... my 8 ear old brother couldnt hold a C7 (Canadian version of the M16) without me holding up the front end.

the AK is a good gun. built very well, probably why they are so widely used.

Good gun? Meh... its not accurate enough, from what I hear. The reason its so widely used is because of its simplicity and mass production. It can also withstand a lot of punishment... but if you take care of your weapon, so can a C7 or any other weapon.

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PLO

its because they can operate under extreme weather conditions with excellent efficieny, arctic.........and wait for it, THE DESERT!, preferd weapon of choice for insurgents[plus their cheap]. Their so good and cheap, that oddly umbarger u mad mental facist, u could have one especially for your 8 year old, built to fit exactly for him, just like the ones america makes for the 300,000 child soldiers in africa. I say you sign him up, umbarger, just think of the money u could make pimpin your 8 year old to african warlords who are out their stampin down the freedom of american values and smashin the evil pinko threat!!!

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Erikl

Good gun? Meh... its not accurate enough, from what I hear. The reason its so widely used is because of its simplicity and mass production. It can also withstand a lot of punishment... but if you take care of your weapon, so can a C7 or any other weapon.

Stellar, let's fact it - M16 is a lausy gun for desert fighting.

It's accurate, I'll give it that, but it jems alot and it's not as easy to clean as an AK, which usually doesn't need so much cleaning as the M16.

The problem of the AK and all it's variants is accuracy and weight.

A full size M16A1 from the 1960s will weight, fully loaded with 29 5.56 NATO standard bullets magazine, will weight around 3.5kg.

An AK will weight 5 kilo.

The AK is also, as said, extremely unaccurate.

It was designed for mass assualt, and not suprisingly - it was developed by a WW2 Soviet armour General, and so it is for the kind of fighting the soviets did in WW2 - that is, sending waves of millions of infantrymen, in hoping it'll form a shockwave against the enemy. Because of that, the AK wasn't built for accuracy (because in Soviet philosophy, there would be million soldiers firing together, so on average a good deal of them will hit the target), easy to handle (because many of the soldiers in Soviet Russia were sent to the front a week after they were drafted, without any serious training in gun handling) and easy to produce (again, you'll need millions of guns for millions of soldiers acting as Cannon Meat...).

Still, the M16 is a gun built all wrong. With all the above said, I'll take an AK anytime.

Thank god our country is now switching to the Israeli made IMI Tavor-21 :tu:.

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Stellar

Stellar, let's fact it - M16 is a lausy gun for desert fighting.

It's accurate, I'll give it that, but it jems alot and it's not as easy to clean as an AK, which usually doesn't need so much cleaning as the M16.

Meh, Ive had mine covered in sand and it didnt jam... I've never had the thing jam on me. Sure it needs more cleaning, but if you clean it often enough to prevent a huge accumulation of dirt in it, I dont see any problems with it.

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Mekorig

its because they can operate under extreme weather conditions with excellent efficieny, arctic.........and wait for it, THE DESERT!, preferd weapon of choice for insurgents[plus their cheap]. Their so good and cheap, that oddly umbarger u mad mental facist, u could have one especially for your 8 year old, built to fit exactly for him, just like the ones america makes for the 300,000 child soldiers in africa. I say you sign him up, umbarger, just think of the money u could make pimpin your 8 year old to african warlords who are out their stampin down the freedom of american values and smashin the evil pinko threat!!!

PLO, it isnt need to use names. Use sarcasm if you want, but not names. Sarcasm is better, because you not necesarily offend the other person, and usually get a witty answers, that make the conversation better. Take for example my post to Unbarger. After my post, he will answer me whit more sarcasm, but not names or insults. I dont know if your understand me...my english sucks.

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BurnSide

This topic will be closed quickly if people cannot have a mature conversation without resorting to childish name calling. You've all been warned, so don't be suprised.

[Edit]

If anyone has a problem with this, use some sense and send me message, don't go into an off-topic rant about it in the forum.

Edited by BurnSide

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I am me

The AK can take a beating in all sorts of weather conditions and is easy to use much like what was stated before. It may not be the most accurate gun in the world but as long as it keeps on firing you most certainly have a better chance at hitting somebody with a gun that may or may not fire.

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Erikl

It's interesting, but actually all of the main assault rifles used today by most armies around the world are based on a technology developed in the late 1940s early 1950s that hasn't changed much, which mixed a semi-auto rifle with the automatic ability of a sub machine gun to create a longer ragne, lighter cross of a gun and sub-machine.

The two results are the famous AK and it's variants, and the M16 and it's variants.

None of these two are suited for the 21st century, let alone the second half of the 20th century.

They were all made for another world war, imagined to be much like the first one and the second one.

This is why both guns are problematic in urban warfare and counter terrorism warfare used in most wars since then.

In an ironic move, these rifles saw a much better use in wars between 3rd world countries (which fought total wars similar to a world war) than in the hands of modern militaries, which in my belief, could have used much better guns which only these days seem to be in their last development stages.

Of course all four year olds can shoot gun! That's why you find so many four year olds being drafted to be snipers!

Well, if one wants to get technical, four year olds can't be good snipers because they lack good coordination, which evolves around the ages of 10-12 :P.

And let's not forget that if you are going to give a four year old such a heavy load as a sniper's rifle (well, for a four year old almost anything is a heavy load), he probably won't be able to function very good (and probably the force from the fire itself will be too harsh for his fragile body to handle, so he'll break his shoulder and arm if he'll attempt to shoot with a real gun).

Meh, Ive had mine covered in sand and it didnt jam...

My first M16, which was a long M16A2 (given to trainees before they finish their basic level), jamed after the 6th ranges, after our warriors week in the desert :P.

I was then given a Galil, which is an Israeli version of the AK, for the rest of the bootcamps, and although it was harder to be accurate with it, it survived a sandstorm and a river crossing and served me right to the rest of my basic level.

Nowdays, unfortunately, I have to carry an M4 (a carbine version of the M16A2 for the rest of you).

I don't know, I just hate the M16s series I guess :P.

Edited by Erikl

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Lord Umbarger

Actually, they are both excellent guns. I think that the AK-47 can take a little more punishment and a little less cleaning but, it's not as accurate as the M-16. The AK-47 also has a slightly higher rate of fire.

It's kind of a trade off. The M-16 can pick off your enemy a little farther off with one bullet.

The AK-47 can be used as a baseball bat on thier heads when they close in.

The Israeli Defence Force was supposed to shift to a new rifle in the near future that has all the benefits of both. As I recall, it also had wire cutters made into the bi-pod. I'm waiting for that one to go on sale!

Burnside: Don't close the thread down on my account. It's his opinion and I don't mind him ranting. Besides, I don't have a four/eight year old kid! LOL! Besides, "Mad Mental Fascist", I sorta liked that one! Creative!

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Erikl

The Israeli Defence Force was supposed to shift to a new rifle in the near future that has all the benefits of both. As I recall, it also had wire cutters made into the bi-pod. I'm waiting for that one to go on sale!

Indeed, the IMI TAR-21, known in it's nickname as the "IMI Tavor", is due to replace all M4 carbines in the infantry units of the IDF, starting from August 2006.

It is predicted that by 2010, the entire military will stop using Galil and M16\M4, and will shift to the Tavor.

IMI Tavor

user posted image

Edited by Erikl

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I am me

Yeah.I loved the freedoms we used to have in this country.

If we loved one another then there would be no violence or crime.We don't need guns.We are much better off without guns.I hate guns so much.

Then don't buy one, you have that choice but on the same note you should not take away my choice to own a gun or anyone else's choice. That is what freedom is all about.

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Lord Umbarger

That's the one I was talking about! It's a beutiful weapon.

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Stellar

My first M16, which was a long M16A2 (given to trainees before they finish their basic level), jamed after the 6th ranges, after our warriors week in the desert tongue.gif.

Interesting. Ive always suspected that airmen couldnt handle rifles :P

Honestly though, as long as you take care of it, it wont jam. I've had mine in Petewawa, in a trench along the mattawa plain (its a friggen desert there. Sand everywhere, there is occasional shrub, but the sand is horrendous) and covered in sand, and while I actually had to use the foreward assist for the first time, it didnt jam. After that, I made sure to always brush the sand off my weapon.

Actually, they are both excellent guns. I think that the AK-47 can take a little more punishment and a little less cleaning but, it's not as accurate as the M-16. The AK-47 also has a slightly higher rate of fire.

AK-47 a higher rate of fire? Its the other way around.

Indeed, the IMI TAR-21, known in it's nickname as the "IMI Tavor", is due to replace all M4 carbines in the infantry units of the IDF, starting from August 2006.

It is predicted that by 2010, the entire military will stop using Galil and M16\M4, and will shift to the Tavor.

I like the idea of the mags on the back, but are those harder to reload?

Anyway, I really couldnt care less, I use a C9 (M249 SAW for the rest of you). Now THAT is a horrible weapon to keep clean, especially when using blanks.

Edit:

Wtf? I could have swore I wrote "blanks" the first time...

Edited by Stellar

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PadawanOsswe

ooooh a SAW! :P

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PadawanOsswe

I wonder if the Military would let me use a M3A1 "Grease Gun" as a side-arm? :D

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Erikl

Interesting. Ive always suspected that airmen couldnt handle rifles

:P

As you very well know, the fact that a gun jams doesn't mean it's useless, you just have to operate the jamming ;).

I'm sure you learned how to solve all basic three jams in an M16 as well...

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Stellar

I'm sure you learned how to solve all basic three jams in an M16 as well...

Heh, I've learnt how to solve a fourth one I discovered. Once, in the middle of an attack, the bolt pushed the tip of one of my blanks into the chamber, but the rest of it was still stuck in the mag. Try and solve that one quickly.

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Erikl

Heh, I've learnt how to solve a fourth one I discovered. Once, in the middle of an attack, the bolt pushed the tip of one of my blanks into the chamber, but the rest of it was still stuck in the mag. Try and solve that one quickly.

I dunno, I've never used blanks :ph34r::P...

I'll try to simulate that in my monthly ranges though.

Thanks for pointing this out :tu:.

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Erikl

I like the idea of the mags on the back, but are those harder to reload?

Nope the gun was especially made with the consulting of infantry officers to make it extremely convinient for the kind of operations an IDF infantryman is expected to face.

It's a normal Israeli concept.

The IAI (Israeli Air Industry) uses the same concept when designing the cockpit for the F-16/15s we buy from the US - it makes sure pilots are involved in the process to make it more soldier-friendly.

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Erikl

Here's the gun tested by one of them officers:

user posted image

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pbarosso

THEY BETTER PUT SOME IRON SIGHTS ON THAT THING. sorry.... if those red dots break off they are in serious trouble.....

and regarding that 18 year old kid who wants to move to canada: hes just a kid who is only just beginning to formulate his take on the world.

let him dance and love everybody. he'll get midlife crisis awefully fast when he realizes how things really work. he just doesnt have the patience to see things through. yet.

and guns dont kill people, people do. ive got a bow and arrow when they come for my gun. the nice thing about a bow is that it makes very little sound and has better penetration than most bullets, due to the kinetic energy in its mass. so when they come for my guns, they will here a slight whishhhh sound and then fall over.

i recently defended a girl being beaten by her boyfriend on the road behind my house. she was screaming, so i grabbed my assault style mini14, and confronted him while my wife was on the phone with the cops. he actually wanted me to shoot him! i had a 30 round clip ready to roll too!! but i backed up and let him come a short ways up on me. the last thing i wanted was to shoot him. but i would have. he would have died that night if i was trigger happy. but he then retreated and his stupid victim of a girlfriend pulled him into the car and she sped away! stupid people! should've nailed him when he threw the taco bell cup at me!

try stopping that guy with your fists and youd be taking big chances. you anti gun freaks! youd be like my wife, screaming after me and p***ed at me for even interviening!!!!!!!! how can there be people who would not want you to stop violent people from beating their women???? what, just look out the window and watch him beat her, too afraid to take a stand?

seriously. wussies!!!!! i hope you all become victims someday. then you will change your tune.

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