Canada blames U.S. for exporting gun violence

[Fluffybunny]

TORONTO, Ontario (AP) -- Canadian officials, seeking to make sense of another fatal shooting in what has been a record year for gun-related deaths, said Tuesday that along with a host of social ills, part of the problem stemmed from what they said was the United States exporting its violence.

Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin and Toronto Mayor David Miller warned that Canada could become like the United States after gunfire erupted Monday on a busy street filled with holiday shoppers, killing a 15-year-old girl and wounding six bystanders -- the latest victims in a record surge in gun violence in Toronto.

The shooting stemmed from a dispute among a group of 10 to 15 youth, and the victim was a teenager out with a parent near a popular shopping mall, police said Tuesday.

"I think it's a day that Toronto has finally lost its innocence," Det. Sgt. Savas Kyriacou said. "It was a tragic loss and tragic day."

While many Canadians take pride in Canadian cities being less violent than their American counterparts, Toronto has seen 78 murders this year, including a record 52 gun-related deaths -- almost twice as many as last year.

"What happened yesterday was appalling. You just don't expect it in a Canadian city," the mayor said.

"It's a sign that the lack of gun laws in the U.S. is allowing guns to flood across the border that are literally being used to kill people in the streets of Toronto," Miller said.

Miller said Toronto, a city of nearly three million, is still very safe compared to most American cities, but the illegal flow of weapons from the United States is causing the noticeable rise in gun violence.

"The U.S. is exporting its problem of violence to the streets of Toronto," he said.

Miller said that while almost every other crime in Toronto is down, the supply of guns has increased and half of them come from the United States.

Miller said the availability of stolen Canadian guns is another problem, and that poverty in certain Toronto neighborhoods is a root cause.

"There are neighborhoods in Toronto where young people face barriers of poverty, discrimination and don't have real hope and opportunity. The kind of programs that we once took for granted in Canada that would reach out to young people have systematically disappeared over the past decade and I think that gun violence is a symptom of a much bigger problem," Miller said.

The escalating violence prompted the prime minister to announce earlier this month that if re-elected on January 23, his government would ban handguns. With severe restrictions already in place against handgun ownership, many criticized the announcement as politics.

Martin, who says up to half of the gun crimes in Canada involve weapons brought in illegally from the United States, raised the smuggling problem when he met with U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice in October.

Martin offered his condolences in a statement Tuesday, saying he was horrified by the shootings.

"What we saw yesterday is a stark reminder of the challenge that governments, police forces and communities face to ensure that Canadian cities do not descend into the kind of rampant gun violence we have seen elsewhere," Martin said.

John Thompson, a security analyst with the Toronto-based Mackenzie Institute, says the number of guns smuggled from the United States is a problem, but that Canada has a gang problem -- not a gun problem -- and that Canada should stop pointing the finger at the United States.

"It's a cop out. It's an easy way of looking at one symptom rather than addressing a whole disease," Thompson said.

Two suspects were arrested and at least one firearm was seized soon after the shootings Monday. Kyriacou said it was an illegal handgun.

Three females and four males were injured, including one male who is in critical condition. Police believe they were bystanders.

Link

[Stellar]

"It's a sign that the lack of gun laws in the U.S. is allowing guns to flood across the border that are literally being used to kill people in the streets of Toronto," Miller said.

I wonder how he drew THAT conclusion.

It is funny how they blame the US... and yes, if there is an illegal flow of weapons from the US to Canada, it is partially their fault... but Canada is also largely to blame for not intercepting these weapons.

[Lord Umbarger]

Canadas main mistake the same mistake that the U.S. is making. No one is guarding the southern border!

Maybe this is payback for all the alcohol that thyey smuggled into the U.S. during prohibition. Actually, no. I don't think thta we could ever properly thank them for that. At least I can't!

<Has another belt of beer>

[__Kratos__]

Oh? Blaming the big bad U.S. of A again?

So... Is there actual evidence this time around? Or is this just like the liberals in October screaming at America, with no evidence too back them up?

[Thanato]

Well it makes sence to me that these are US fire arms, since the only way to purchase a weapon in canada (besides the black market) is to have a license, and even then you really cant own a hand gun with out another license.

lol Lord Umbarger that was just returning a favour for u guys supplying us with that so called alchohol during our Prohibition.

~Thanato

[PLO]

its the same thing, the guns get swappd for grass. Which in turn goes back down into america and traded for cocaine and more guns.

[__Kratos__]

Well it makes sence to me that these are US fire arms, since the only way to purchase a weapon in canada (besides the black market) is to have a license, and even then you really cant own a hand gun with out another license.

lol Lord Umbarger that was just returning a favour for u guys supplying us with that so called alchohol during our Prohibition.

~Thanato

Ever heard of a boat? I bet one of those could ship guns over seas to Canada. Just an idea.

Again, is there any evidence? Or would the leaders just rather make up lies without evidence?

What about gangs? I suppose Canada didn't have anything to do with them... support programs and such for kids? But no... lets see those home-grown gang bangers use a gun to kill and lets blame someone else for our lack of caring till now.

[Celumnaz]

"The U.S. is exporting its problem of violence to the streets of Toronto," he said.

Is he serious!?

poverty in certain Toronto neighborhoods is a root cause.

"There are neighborhoods in Toronto where young people face barriers of poverty, discrimination and don't have real hope and opportunity.

socialist policies are a root cause heh. so, a Canadian war on Poverty? This sounds like the same rhetoric they sell to our inner city minorities.

The Man, keepin you down.

Sounds like John Thompson has a slightly better head than the Mayor.

So, that leads me to, why wasn't Mr. Thompson's part the lead? Why wasn't his part the headline? Why do they want us to hear "Canada blames US"? What kind of unity does that endorse? What's the media trying to do here?

[I am me]

This goes back to the saying 'guns don't kill people, people kill people." Criminals get illegal weapons because they are criminals. They do not to things legally to begin with. The fact that these criminals use guns does not matter. It is the decision to use a gun and the result that happens from the action that is the problem. I think quite a few people in Canada already own guns if I remember correctly.

[Guest]

Again, is there any evidence? Or would the leaders just rather make up lies without evidence?

Without evidence? Most of the guns confiscated in Toronto after a crime are from the U.S....

[I am me]

Without evidence? Most of the guns confiscated in Toronto after a crime are from the U.S....

yeah, but does it really matter where the guns come from?

[XNavyGunner]

This goes back to the saying 'guns don't kill people, people kill people." Criminals get illegal weapons because they are criminals. They do not to things legally to begin with. The fact that these criminals use guns does not matter. It is the decision to use a gun and the result that happens from the action that is the problem. I think quite a few people in Canada already own guns if I remember correctly.

Finally someone who hit the nail on the head. It's the thugs who make legitimate gunowners look bad. Criminals canNOT legally buy guns. Personally I have no problem with the background checks for buying guns.

[__Kratos__]

WHEN IN TROUBLE, BLAME THE US

In October 2005, as part of the campaign for the election expected to be called within 30 days of the release of Justice Gomery's report on the "sponsorship scandal" (a C$250 million project intended to promote national unity and opposed separatism in Quebec, much of which went to advertising agencies affiliated with the Liberal Party for little or no work), the ruling Liberal government pulled their favorite "blame the US for Canada's woes" rabbit out of their hat:

claiming, admittedly without any substantiation, that 50% of all guns used to commit crimes in Canada were smuggled from the US. The RCMP, Justice Canada, Statistics Canada, and the Toronto Police Service all say that they've heard that figure "bandied about", but that they themselves are not the source.

Source

They already have a history of making stuff up, what's changed in the last 4 months?

Guns in Canada not an American problem - Canadian "The Gazette"

After squandering $2 billion on the pointless and useless gun registry, our federal government has now discovered legal guns aren't the main problem after all. Prime Minister Paul Martin, struck by lightning on the road to the next election, discovered last Monday, while the U.S. Secretary of State was on her way to Canada, the real problem is guns smuggled illegally into Canada from the United States.

Justice Minister Irwin Cotler promptly came up with a half-cocked scheme to have the provinces empower Canadians to sue U.S. gun manufacturers whose legal products are used illegally in Canada.

It's quite a doctrine, that. The U.S. Congress, as it happens, has just passed a law shielding gun makers and dealers from liability in many negligence lawsuits; it's a bad law in some ways, but so would be any Canadian law saying the maker of a legal product is responsible for the way it's used. Please do not roll up this newspaper and beat anyone to death, no matter how infuriating you find the editorials: we wouldn't much like to be sued, and that surely wouldn't be far down the road. (As for citizens suing the government in Ottawa for bad decisions, on the gun registry, say, where do we sign up?)

But never mind the lawsuits; let's look at the broader issue. It's no coincidence Martin's new position comes just as a poll identifies fear of random gun violence as the biggest public fear in the Liberal caucus's heartland, Toronto. Ontario Public Safety Minister Monte Kwinter went so far as to say Toronto is under a "blanket of fear."

Police and prosecutors there have just stepped up their anti-gun and anti-gang efforts and will add resources by borrowing additional prosecutors. That makes sense: Toronto's gun violence is mainly gang violence. Mercifully, this problem of shooting sprees has not reached Montreal to the same degree as in Toronto, in part no doubt because police here have had some success against gang culture.

As for guns, it turns out some of the blame for the northward movement of handguns to Toronto, and to some places in Western Canada, belongs in this country.

Canada's Customs Excise Union, which wants armed sentries at border points to protect its members, has dug up some interesting data. It shows between 1995 and 2003, as north-bound border traffic increased greatly, front-line staffing increased by only about 10 per cent, or 717 full-time-equivalents, while staffing at the Border Services Agency's head office more than doubled, adding 540 FTEs.

The Agency notes many of those positions are in intelligence work, created since Sept. 11, 2001, to make the border less porous in response to U.S. security concerns. In all, 11 officers are working full time on hand-gun-interdiction intelligence work. And another 250 front-line workers will be hired soon.

Fair enough. But clearly more needs to be done, and done by Canadians, about gang members' access to handguns.

Because our U.S. friends have such a gun-friendly culture, the problem is an intractable one. But blaming the Americans before we've done our best ourselves, while it may be good politics, is rarely sound policy.

Source

---------------

[DR. YO]

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...ic=54976&st=195

There’s similar thread back in Nov 12.

It got ugly.

Edited December 28, 2005 by DR. YO

[Lord Umbarger]

It did get ugly but, it was fun!!!

[Thanato]

Canada is doing its best to try and stop illegal weapons corssing over the boarder, but with the world longest non protected boarder in the world, thats damned near impossable.

The US should help and stop the smuggling.

We are trying to stop the smuggling of Drugs into the US (hell i live in the area were most of the drugs in Toronto come from, in fact there isnt a week that goes by when there is a Grow op being busted)

The US should try more and stop the guns coming into Canada by instituting harsher gun laws.

~Thanato

[XNavyGunner]

Canada is doing its best to try and stop illegal weapons corssing over the boarder, but with the world longest non protected boarder in the world, thats damned near impossable.

The US should help and stop the smuggling.

We are trying to stop the smuggling of Drugs into the US (hell i live in the area were most of the drugs in Toronto come from, in fact there isnt a week that goes by when there is a Grow op being busted)

The US should try more and stop the guns coming into Canada by instituting harsher gun laws.

~Thanato

This is a joke right? Why should we have harsher laws on what is perfectly legal here because Canaduh doesn't like them?

[twpdyp]

How is it the United States problem when Canada cannot or will not secure its southern border? Criminals will still get their weapon of choice regardless of a law making hand guns, rifles, shotguns, mini-guns, or even sling shots illegal. It is not the responsibility of the United States. Canada should secure its border, and even ban guns altogether if the citizens so desire. But do not blame your neighbor to the south for your inability to police your own. Just like the southern border of the United States where efforts are under way to secure that border from the illegal immigration of Mexican citizens. Canada is perfectly within its rights to stop the illegal transport of weapons, cows, salt shakers or any other item the people do not want or think should not be allowed in their countries borders. Remember what the famous bumper sticker says "When they outlaw guns only outlaws will have guns".

Have a nice day!!!!

[Piney]

Canada is doing its best to try and stop illegal weapons corssing over the boarder, but with the world longest non protected boarder in the world, thats damned near impossable.

The US should try more and stop the guns coming into Canada by instituting harsher gun laws.

Crap! When a group of my tribe goes up to visit the other half of my tribe, the Munsee who live in Moraviantown on the Thames in Ontario. I can't get away with bringing those boys a carton of Newports Thanks to security on this side. Secure your borders from your end! It's not our problem.

Lapi'che

Edit: Just like Canada can't stop the CANADIAN rustlers who steal horses here for meat and run them back up for the french to eat............

Edited December 28, 2005 by Piney

[coldwhitelight]

TORONTO, Ontario (AP) -- Canadian officials, seeking to make sense of another fatal shooting in what has been a record year for gun-related deaths, said Tuesday that along with a host of social ills, part of the problem stemmed from what they said was the United States exporting its violence.

Canada needs to stop blaming America of it’s social problems. A free country, to excuse a free nation of what is wrong within there society, is doing nothing to help the situation. For a government to try to extend blame will cause social unrest, where nothing will be done to try to find a real solution.

"It's a sign that the lack of gun laws in the U.S. is allowing guns to flood across the border that are literally being used to kill people in the streets of Toronto," Miller said.

Miller said Toronto, a city of nearly three million, is still very safe compared to most American cities, but the illegal flow of weapons from the United States is causing the noticeable rise in gun violence.

"The U.S. is exporting its problem of violence to the streets of Toronto," he said.

Miller said that while almost every other crime in Toronto is down, the supply of guns has increased and half of them come from the United States.

This is just Canadian rhetoric trying blame it’s gun violence on America. Guns are smuggled and sold all around the world; no country is immune to the problem. Canada has to stop extending the blame of what is wrong within it’s society and look for solution to gun violence in the country.

[Mekorig]

I agree whit your in the social problem, but the fact of the smugling of weapons betewn countreies is a serious problem that dificult the resolve of the social and violence problems.

[Lord Umbarger]

Oddly enough, as the number of gun crimes goes up, the number of head bashings with a stone goes down.

Guns are not the problem. It's the idiots behind them. If the guns are coming into your country it must be because people there want them. Maybe not the law abiding people but, some of the people. Perhaps this would be a new way to track criminals. Intercept the guns at the border, install a small radio transmitter and then track them to thier lair. At that point the RCMP can bash them over the head with a stone. The circle is complete!

[Dando Kast]

RCMP can afford stones?... I thought they just reached behind the horse and...umm..nevermind. I'm actually embarrassed my government would be so quick to blame *cough*martinsanidiot*cough* the US. At least the analyst said it right when he said the US does have a gun problem but that the bigger problem was with gang violence in Canada... and that's not hard to believe when talking about Toronto...

[I am me]

There is no such thing as a gun problem when talking about violence. A gun problem would be something along the lines of the gun not opperating properly. The problem here lies within the people who are committing violent crimes. Keeping or taking a gun away from a criminal still does not change the fact that he's a criminal.

Edited December 29, 2005 by I am me

[Mekorig]

but keeping the gun away from him help to minime the damage he could done, and make more easy to trate the problem.