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metacast

Enoch Question

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metacast

"luminaries of heaven"

what are they.

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Lord Umbarger

HHmmm? Are we taking to talking to ourselves? Why does this happen so often on the UM?

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Lord Umbarger

Maybe all the flashing lights in some peoples avatars drive them crazy?

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GIDEON MAGE

luminaries=stars.next question?

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metacast

luminaries=stars.next question?

more specifically

Chapter 23

1,2 From thence I went to another place to the west of the ends of the earth. And I saw a burning

3 fire which ran without resting, and paused not from its course day or night but (ran) regularly. And

4 I asked saying: 'What is this which rests not?' Then Raguel, one of the holy angels who was with me, answered me and said unto me: 'This course of fire which thou hast seen is the fire in the west which persecutes all the luminaries of heaven.'

-----------------------------------------

What was enochs relation to noah and what is the time period of this text? this is a long read so far.

Edited by ADbox

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Celumnaz

heavenly bodies? like the sun and moon and stuff?

I'm in a superficial mood atm.

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metacast

Nephilim.

whats that exactly?

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zandore

Nephilim.

whats that exactly?

Do you know how to use "google" search engine?

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metacast

whats that exactly?

Do you know how to use "google" search engine?

id rather combat your disposition towards communication and community.

first hand conversations(typed verbal whatever) is a superior method of learning than wasting countless hours of shiftng through mundane and irrelavent details just to find a quick summary.

(edit): and some of the brightest minds i have met vistit this forum, and they, with pleasure, will offer more information than i ask for or could find searching google my entire life. ... plus i can measure their interest in what they are talkin aboot, which will add or subtract from their credibility... and makes me wiser.

Edited by ADbox

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Yelekiah

whats that exactly?

The Nephilim are the offspring of the fallen angels.

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zandore

id rather combat your disposition towards communication and community.

It helps to know what you are at "combat" with! You should have at least an idea of what you are fighting for or against.

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draconic chronicler

The original concept of Nephilim and Fallen angels is a far cry from the general Christian concept of today. Before Judaism (and therefore Christianity) became tainted with pagan zorastrian beliefs of Dualism, war in heaven, Satan as an opponent to God, etc., the so-called "fallen angels" were merely disobedient angels who left heaven without permission to have sex with human women. These are clearly the flesh and blood, food eating, human-like angels of the old testament scriptures and not the swan-winged "spirit angels" stolen from pagan greco-roman religion by the early Christains, who of course, were these same pagans prior to accepting their paganized version of Christianity.

This is why Enoch was forbidden and ordered destroyed by the Catholic Church. It conflicted with the pagan Greco-Roman and Zorsastian beliefs accepted by Christianity that makes that religion so different from Judaism today, despite the supposed belief in the same Bible (Old Testament).

There are a few references to Enochian literature in the New Testament, indicating it was used by Jesus and the early Christians prior to its later purging as Christian beliefs changed, and became more "pagan", when it became the state religion of Rome. I believe the Nephilim are referred to by Paul, and the perplexing comment of Jesus of his disciples to be "wise as serpents" certainly did not refer to snakes of the natural world, but rather the heavenly serpent-dragons of heaven presided over by the Archangel Gabriel in Enoch. (The "seraphim" of the old testament, but here, literally described as serpent-dragons in the Greek language enoch is written in, leaving no doubt to the the meaning of the Seraphim in Isaiah, meaning the fiery, flying/winged serpents in the Hebrew language.)

Edited by draconic chronicler

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metacast

The original concept of Nephilim and Fallen angels is a far cry from the general Christian concept of today. Before Judaism (and therefore Christianity) became tainted with pagan zorastrian beliefs of Dualism, war in heaven, Satan as an opponent to God, etc., the so-called "fallen angels" were merely disobedient angels who left heaven without permission to have sex with human women. These are clearly the flesh and blood, food eating, human-like angels of the old testament scriptures and not the swan-winged "spirit angels" stolen from pagan greco-roman religion by the early Christains, who of course, were these same pagans prior to accepting their paganized version of Christianity.

This is why Enoch was forbidden and ordered destroyed by the Catholic Church. It conflicted with the pagan Greco-Roman and Zorsastian beliefs accepted by Christianity that makes that religion so different from Judaism today, despite the supposed belief in the same Bible (Old Testament).

There are a few references to Enochian literature in the New Testament, indicating it was used by Jesus and the early Christians prior to its later purging as Christian beliefs changed, and became more "pagan", when it became the state religion of Rome. I believe the Nephilim are referred to by Paul, and the perplexing comment of Jesus of his disciples to be "wise as serpents" certainly did not refer to snakes of the natural world, but rather the heavenly serpent-dragons of heaven presided over by the Archangel Gabriel in Enoch. (The "seraphim" of the old testament, but here, literally described as serpent-dragons in the Greek language enoch is written in, leaving no doubt to the the meaning of the Seraphim in Isaiah, meaning the fiery, flying/winged serpents in the Hebrew language.)

righteous.

Nephilim

(Gen. 6:4; Num. 13:33, R.V.), giants, the Hebrew word left untranslated by the

Revisers, the name of one of the Canaanitish tribes. The Revisers have,

however, translated the Hebrew gibborim, in Gen. 6:4, "mighty men."

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ok, so why is enoch so controversial?

And would these serpents be parralel to this whole reptellian stuff. I read an interview, or psuedo interview literary work , with a female reptillian. When she is questioned about her spiritual beliefs, she mentions that her religious docterine forbids her species from living on the earth's surface until an undisclosed time.

i dont have the link to the interview.

--------

and why cant the pegan beliefs that cross with christian beliefs hold ground with christianity, assuming that christianity's god existed and was active before christ's times... which he would have been.

and What was enochs relation to noah and what is the time period of this text?

bump

Edited by ADbox

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Monkyburd

BUMP

I've been researching Enoch as well, and have a few questions myself. A link to the texts would be good also,.. all that I've found are ridiculous opinion articles about Enoch. I need the bare bones up in this motha'!

Nephilim.

whats that exactly?

Hahaha, this made me laugh. :lol: I found out what this term meant the first day I researched the book of enoch.

I swear, I'm not an *******.

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Raphiem

The Book of Enoch:

http://reluctant-messenger.com/1enoch01-60.htm (actual texts 0f enoch)

http://reluctant-messenger.com/enoch.htm

Nephilim *Hebrew means fallen ones*

Nephilim in the bible:

Genesis 6: “Now it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. There were Nephilim (the king james version translates this as giants, which the nephilim were) in the earth in those days, and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men and they bare children to them. The same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.”

This passage from the bible talks of the sons of God, which is a reference to Angels, procreating with woman and producing Giants (Nephilim). God's law of reproduction, according to the biblical account of creation, is "everything after his kind." God's law makes it impossible for giants to be produced by normal parentage. To produce such beings as the Nephilim assumes super- natural parentage. These Angels left their natural habitat to cohabit with woman which was directly forbidden by God. These Angels weren’t the first to disobey God and indulge there temptations. Lucifer had already lead a revolt of angles before the creation of earth against God which they were cast out from heaven. These sons of God, Nephilim, Giants, Aliens, hate man and loath man for God has given him free will and a life to chose what path he will take. Angels have no such path, they either serve God or are cast from heaven. They have no soul to be saved. Once cast out, there is no return. This is in part because there is no faith in knowing that God exists, which they know, they see, and they hear. Man on the other hand is in the dark of absolute fact in God’s existence, until he dies, when he is then either born again into light or cast into eternal darkness..

In Geneses we are told that the end times will be as they were in the days of Noah. Something in the days of Noah happened that was so extraordinary, that God said it would not happen again until the end of days. Any time a hint of the Nephilim was even mentioned in the pages of the bible, they were destroyed by GOD. The Hebrew word describing Noah is “tamiym" and comes from the root word "taman." Which means "without blemish". This could possibly mean that Noah was one of the last humans not tainted by the Nephilim’s Genes. Also, if these fallen ones had been aloud to continue their interbreeding, the prophesy which told of a coming messiah, would have been lost and impossible. Noah’s blood was one of, if not the last, pure blood lines not yet corrupted due to the Nephilim’s gene pole, knowledge and wickedness. Because of this God destroyed the earth with a flood. This, is where I believe that “evil spirits” aka demons come from. The Nephilim, half angel half humans, have a spirit. What happens to that spirit when it’s body is destroyed, lets say in a flood? Does it go to heaven? Does it go to hell? Does it just disappear? The Book of Enoch which is quoted or brought up in the Books of Jude, Jose. and Sam. tells us that these evil spirits are bound to the earth until the great judgment.

Nephlim were mentioned again in the bible in Sodom and Gomorrah. After this mention of the Nephilim God destroyed it with fire and brimstone. Every time these Nephilim have tried to cohabit with man, God has wiped them off the earth. They have a far superior knowledge than we do of every science known and unknown to us, which they in part shared with us at one time. The Egyptians had Gods they worshiped, these God’s were much more real than just fairy tales. Their main God of worship is the sun God Horus. Hmmm interestingly enough Lucifer is known as the illuminated one, Bringer of light. We also have ancient Greek mythology of Gods such as Prometheus the Bringer of Fire. These Gods, are all more based on reality than myth however. Fallen angels were looked at as Gods here on earth. Once here, they taught all sorts of forbidden magic, alchemy and advanced sciences. Documented to us in the bible and the book of Enoch, these incredible events were told to us as they were. Then later retold and supped up to what we have as mythology and fairytale today.

For further study if interested

The hidden truth of ufo's and aliens. Last 30 mins is where it gets really interesting.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1565744367577847884

A great starting point for research on the Nephilim

http://www.returnofthenephilim.com

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Lion of Judah

Enoch was probably one of the lucky ones to be shown places and faces in the universe. And the vision was shown to me thus: Behold, in the vision clouds invited me and a mist summoned me, and the course of the stars and the lightnings sped and hastened me, and the winds in 9 the vision caused me to fly and lifted me upward, and bore me into heaven. And I went in till I drew nigh to a wall which is built of crystals and surrounded by tongues of fire: and it began to affright 10 me.

And I went into the tongues of fire and drew nigh to a large house which was built of crystals: and the walls of the house were like a tessellated floor (made) of crystals, and its groundwork was 11 of crystal. Its ceiling was like the path of the stars and the lightnings, and between them were 12 fiery cherubim, and their heaven was (clear as) water. A flaming fire surrounded the walls, and its 13 portals blazed with fire. And I entered into that house, and it was hot as fire and cold as ice: there 14 were no delights of life therein: fear covered me, and trembling gat hold upon me. And as I quaked 15 and trembled, I fell upon my face. And I beheld a vision, And lo! there was a second house, greater 16 than the former, and the entire portal stood open before me, and it was built of flames of fire. And in every respect it so excelled in splendour and magnificence and extent that I cannot describe to 17 you its splendour and its extent.

And its floor was of fire, and above it were lightnings and the path 18 of the stars, and its ceiling also was flaming fire. And I looked and saw therein a lofty throne: its appearance was as crystal, and the wheels thereof as the shining sun, and there was the vision of 19 cherubim. And from underneath the throne came streams of flaming fire so that I could not look 20 thereon. And the Great Glory sat thereon, and His raiment shone more brightly than the sun and 21 was whiter than any snow. None of the angels could enter and could behold His face by reason 22 of the magnificence and glory, and no flesh could behold Him. The flaming fire was round about Him, and a great fire stood before Him, and none around could draw nigh Him: ten thousand times 23 ten thousand (stood) before Him, yet He needed no counsellor. And the most holy ones who were 24 nigh to Him did not leave by night nor depart from Him. And until then I had been prostrate on my face, trembling: and the Lord called me with His own mouth, and said to me: 'Come hither, Enoch, and hear my word.' And one of the holy ones came to me and waked me, and he made me rise up and approach the door: and I bowed my face downwards.

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GIDEON MAGE

Or, much more likely, the nephalim, and the giants mentioned in world-wide folklore, are all based on vague rembrances of the Neanderthals, who were larger than our ancestors, the Cro-Magnons. Just like the flood is based on the end of the last ice age. These are eponymous legends written thousands of years afterwards. The book of Enoch is a catalogue of condensed mystical writings, revealing level after level of iniitiation rituals.

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Monkyburd

Uhhhhh...

I guess there is no short answer to this whole enoch thing.

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