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__Kratos__

'Devilish' Jeans a Hot Seller in Sweden

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__Kratos__

STOCKHOLM, Sweden - A punk-rock style, trendy tight fit and affordable price have made Cheap Monday jeans a hot commodity among young Swedes, but what has people talking is the brand's ungodly logo: a skull with a cross turned upside down on its forehead.

The jeans' makers say it's more of a joke, but the logo's designer said there's a deeper message.

"It is an active statement against Christianity," Bjorn Atldax told The Associated Press. "I'm not a Satanist myself, but I have a great dislike for organized religion."

Atldax insists he has a purpose beyond selling denim: to make young people question Christianity, which he called a "force of evil" that had sparked wars throughout history.

Such a remark might incite outrage or prompt retailers to drop the brand in more religious countries.

But not in Sweden, a secular nation which cherishes its free speech and where churchgoing has been declining for decades.

Cheap Mondays are flying off the shelves at about $50 a pair. The jeans have also been shipped throughout Europe and to Australia, and there are plans to introduce them to the United States and elsewhere.

The jeans' makers say about 200,000 pairs have been sold since March 2004 — and note they've received few complaints about the grinning skull and upside down cross, a symbol often associated with satanic worship.

Even the country's largest church, the Lutheran Church of Sweden, reacts with a shrug.

"I don't think it's much to be horrified about," said Bo Larsson, director of the church's Department of Education, Research and Culture.

"It is abundantly clear that this designer wants to create public opinion against the Christian faith ... but I believe that the way to deal with this is to start a discussion about what religion means."

Other Christians, however, are calling for a tougher stance against the jeans.

"One cannot just keep quiet about this," said the Rev. Karl-Erik Nylund, vicar of St. Mary Magdalene Church in Stockholm. "This is a deliberate provocation (against Christians) and I object to that."

Nylund complained that Swedish companies don't treat Christianity with the same respect that they afford other religions.

"No one wants to provoke Jews or Muslims, but it's totally OK to provoke Christians," he said.

Some buyers have ripped off the logo from the back of the pants, or even returned the jeans once they realized what the symbol means. But such cases are very few, according to the brand's creator, Orjan Andersson, who said he doesn't take the logo too seriously.

"I'm not interested in religion," he said. "I'm more interested in that the logo looks good."

Henrik Petersson, 26, said he picked up his first pair of Cheap Mondays a few months after they were launched because he liked their punk-rocker style and the logo caught his eye.

"I think it's a cool thing. It stands out from the rest," he said. "I haven't really reflected over whether there is an underlying message."

Martin Sundberg, a 32-year-old co-owner of a clothing store in Stockholm's trendy SoFo district, said people shouldn't get upset over the jeans.

"It's just supposed to be a bit of fun, some kind of anti-culture," he said.

The jeans are selling in Norway, Denmark, Britain, the Netherlands and France. Andersson, the brand's owner, hopes to tap the lucrative U.S. market soon — and said he isn't worried the logo will hurt sales.

"Surely, most people understand that we are not evil people," he said. "My mom doesn't think so, at least."

Source

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I'm sure anybody offended by it, will get over it. :P

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lkayn

I'm sure they will too, but really, does it really matter what it means. Let people believe what they want to believe, and leave them alone with that thought. Its only gonna get ugly if you start denying things.

Edited by lkayn

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kraken

The jeans' makers say about 200,000 pairs have been sold since March 2004 — and note they've received few complaints about the grinning skull and upside down cross, a symbol often associated with satanic worship.

Personally ..i believe logo's & symbols etc. are interpreted how any individual wants to interpret them...its all in the eye(mind) of the beholder

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Smeagol1

Im buying some (goes to cd player plays antichrist superstar)

ya see the stupid christans are revolting again upside down cross big whoopydedo they should of used a pentagram. :devil:

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Yelekiah
"No one wants to provoke Jews or Muslims, but it's totally OK to provoke Christians," he said.

Haha, that's hilarious. So true as well.

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Smeagol1

I've provoked many jews and gotton away with it! :devil::tu:

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Azalin

Personally, being religious, I am against it. It's like wearing a pair of jeans with a big swastika on them. Although you may think its " cool ", have respect for the people around you.

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Yelekiah

Personally, being religious, I am against it. It's like wearing a pair of jeans with a big swastika on them.

Why are you against it? The inverted cross is a religious symbol to a certain extent. St. Peter was crucified on one because he thought he wasn't worthy. Plus inverted crosses appear on several churches in Europe. :yes:

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__Kratos__

Why are you against it? The inverted cross is a religious symbol to a certain extent. St. Peter was crucified on one because he thought he wasn't worthy. Plus inverted crosses appear on several churches in Europe. :yes:

I remember seeing a picture with the late pope in front of a inverted cross. :P

Pictures of Pope in Front of inverted cross

I guess Christians are against freedom of speech... then again... really what are they not against? :rolleyes:

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Yelekiah
:lol: Those people on that site are making themselves look foolish. The cross wasn't originally "Satanic".

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AztecInca
they've received few complaints about the grinning skull and upside down cross, a symbol often associated with satanic worship.

Its quite simple, if you dont like the symbol dont buy it or look at it on those who own a pair.

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Celumnaz

"It's just supposed to be a bit of fun, some kind of anti-culture," he said.

anti-culture? is that a good or bad thing? "anti" = against, "culture" = intellectual activity

so against being smart? is that good? does that mean "pro-dumb"?

"Surely, most people understand that we are not evil people," he said. "My mom doesn't think so, at least."

Well duh, sometimes mothers encourage criminal behavior. So these images are associated with evil, much like the association with the swastika symbol and nazism in today's society. Wear a symbol representing evil, might as well just tatoo "I am an evil person" on your forehead. "I'm not evil, I just act like it, and talk like it, cause it's cool, and you really better get out of my way..."

I'm sure anybody offended by it, will get over it. :P

at least the fools are labeled now! :D

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__Kratos__

:lol: Those people on that site are making themselves look foolish. The cross wasn't originally "Satanic".

:lol: Sorry, I should have just said look at the pictures and ignore the text around it. It's just another wacko site but they just so happened to have the pictures in question. :P

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Lord Umbarger

What a great marketing ploy! I wish that I'd thought of it!

*surries off to the dungeon to think up a cheap knock off of it*

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Azalin

:lol: Those people on that site are making themselves look foolish. The cross wasn't originally "Satanic".

The swastika was not a symbol of disgrace either, until adopted by Hitler. It's the ignorance of people around us that I find dis-tasteful. I wouldn't wear a pair of pants with a swastika infront of my grandfather, he'd be dis-graced with me. I don't see any fashion statement, or any other reason for someone to wear a pair of pants with a satanic symbol then to do it to get attention. If you want attention, go outside with a polka dot pink t-shirt, instead of offending the people around you.

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__Kratos__

The swastika was not a symbol of disgrace either, until adopted by Hitler. It's the ignorance of people around us that I find dis-tasteful. I wouldn't wear a pair of pants with a swastika infront of my grandfather, he'd be dis-graced with me. I don't see any fashion statement, or any other reason for someone to wear a pair of pants with a satanic symbol then to do it to get attention. If you want attention, go outside with a polka dot pink t-shirt, instead of offending the people around you.

What about Satanists then? Would they be allowed to wear clothing that they like rather then what you accept? Maybe Christians should stop wearing those ridiculous crosses around their neck, stop wearing church shirts and tear off those lame bumper stickers!

OR

We can have freedom of expression and learn to live with each other. Christians are a religion of peace... right? ;)

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NirmalaMaya

Yeah. I demand Christians to stop wearing those stupid church retreat shirts because..well...

I DONT LIKE THEM.

;)

Lets see how many Christians stop wearing them.

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Azalin

What about Satanists then? Would they be allowed to wear clothing that they like rather then what you accept? Maybe Christians should stop wearing those ridiculous crosses around their neck, stop wearing church shirts and tear off those lame bumper stickers!

OR

We can have freedom of expression and learn to live with each other. Christians are a religion of peace... right? ;)

Satanism is not a religion though, it's just a spinoff of christianity created to pervert their teachings. It would be like, having Greek Mythology following Zues, and then having, Hadeology, a spinoff of worshipping Hades instead of Zues, it's still the same doctrine, just a perversion of it.

I have nothing wrong with being tolerant of all religions around me, but a teaching established to pervert anothers teachings is just wrong. I wouldn't go to a Patriotic American and wear a shirt saying " Saddam or Bin Laden for President !! ". That's just wrong, no one should have to put up with such ignorance.

*sigh* Sorry for getting so off topic, and for rambling, it's just society as a whole seems to be getting worse and worse.

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Smeagol1

I remember seeing a picture with the late pope in front of a inverted cross. :P

Pictures of Pope in Front of inverted cross

I guess Christians are against freedom of speech... then again... really what are they not against? :rolleyes:

I knew it!

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Yelekiah

The swastika was not a symbol of disgrace either, until adopted by Hitler.

What's interesting is that the cross isn't "Satanic" at all (not if we're discussing the philosophy anyway-and you said that it wasn't a religion). So mentioning the swastika is not exactly comparable.

Edited by Yelekiah

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Albatross

It is just a logo, but it is offensive to some (who do not know that it really wasn't originally intended to be a satanic symbol) so I don't think I would wear it.

~The Albatross~

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Azalin

What's interesting is that the cross isn't "Satanic" at all (not if we're discussing the philosophy anyway-and you said that it wasn't a religion). So mentioning the swastika is not exactly comparable.

Satanism if anything is just another denomination of christianity, it is not a seperate religion, because it still envolves the beleifs of Christianity. Turning the crucifix upside down is then considered a " satanic symbol " to the majority of people. You take a pentagram, suddenly give it a 45 degree angle, and it becomes a satanic symbol as well, same idea.

The creator of the jeans himself stated he doesn't care for organized religions, so it's quite apparant he is doing this out of ignorance and disgust. People just should not market items, with the soul purpose of offending other human beings.

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__Kratos__

Yeah. I demand Christians to stop wearing those stupid church retreat shirts because..well...

I DONT LIKE THEM.

;)

Lets see how many Christians stop wearing them.

:lol: Fat chance of them stopping.

Satanism is not a religion though, it's just a spinoff of christianity created to pervert their teachings. It would be like, having Greek Mythology following Zues, and then having, Hadeology, a spinoff of worshipping Hades instead of Zues, it's still the same doctrine, just a perversion of it.

I have nothing wrong with being tolerant of all religions around me, but a teaching established to pervert anothers teachings is just wrong. I wouldn't go to a Patriotic American and wear a shirt saying " Saddam or Bin Laden for President !! ". That's just wrong, no one should have to put up with such ignorance.

*sigh* Sorry for getting so off topic, and for rambling, it's just society as a whole seems to be getting worse and worse.

Satanism is a religion on it's own though and there is also the Satanism that is a philosophy to live by. You offend those people every day wearing a cross, shirt and anything to do with Christians. Not to mention all the atheists and other religions out there that have to put up with Christians.

Please tell me... what makes Christians better then everybody else?

The creator of the jeans himself stated he doesn't care for organized religions, so it's quite apparant he is doing this out of ignorance and disgust. People just should not market items, with the soul purpose of offending other human beings.

And why not? His first goal is to get cash in his pocket. If some people get offended over it, look at their selves a bit and see what might offend other people. I'm sure they will get over it and see this world isn't a simple picture to them. ^_^

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Azalin

:lol: Fat chance of them stopping.

Satanism is a religion on it's own though and there is also the Satanism that is a philosophy to live by. You offend those people every day wearing a cross, shirt and anything to do with Christians. Not to mention all the atheists and other religions out there that have to put up with Christians.

Please tell me... what makes Christians better then everybody else?

And why not? His first goal is to get cash in his pocket. If some people get offended over it, look at their selves a bit and see what might offend other people. I'm sure they will get over it and see this world isn't a simple picture to them. ^_^

The thing is Kratos, you probly don't feel that deeply about anything in this sense. Im not sure, if you have any children, a wife, or perhaps even a girlfriend. What if someone marketed a shirt, and Im sorry for the analogy, of her getting raped ?. Or even a picture of your wife / girlfriend / nude on a T-shirt ?. Would you not find this dis-respectful ? not only you, but her family ?. However, he's just trying to get money, people are gonna buy the shirt, cause she's a great looking women. This just asks where do you draw the line on these things ?. What might be offensive to me, might not be offensive to you, and vice versa, however it's common knowledge that offensing a religion is what he's aiming to do, to get money.

I never said Christianity was better than anyone else. Im just stating, the fact that many will find this offensive.

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__Kratos__
What might be offensive to me, might not be offensive to you, and vice versa

Exactly. Why free speech is so great... anybody can express it, not just if it offends some people because we should learn to live together rather then getting all mad over a inverted cross on someone's **** walking down the street.

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