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__Kratos__

'Devilish' Jeans a Hot Seller in Sweden

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Celumnaz

it's not the imagery that "offends" me, it's the intentional "rubbing salt in wounds" behavior that's offensive to me, and even angers me.

If "facts" are the knife in the chest of "religion", fine, so be it (right or wrong), but this is the twisting of the knife I find reprehensible. The debaucheristic revelry in the hurting of others is supposed to be disgusting, no?

Anyway, those that delight in anothers pain are apparently going to be labled, identifiable, that's a good thing! :tu:

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Yelekiah
The creator of the jeans himself stated he doesn't care for organized religions, so it's quite apparant he is doing this out of ignorance and disgust.

Sure I suppose he didn't know about St. Peter's cross; the same way you probably didn't know. :hmm:

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Azalin

Sure I suppose he didn't know about St. Peter's cross; the same way you probably didn't know. :hmm:

I very much know about St.Peters Cross, but 90% of christians and media still find the upside down cross to be a Satanic Symbol.

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Yelekiah

So you're offended by it because...? I'm just curious. Because it's a religious symbol, Azalin. And if one were religious, why should they be offended of that symbol? It's on churches. :yes:

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Azalin

And the Swastika is on Hindu churches, however if I walk downtown with one on my pant leg, people associate me with nazism, it's the same thing. The creator of the jeans purpose was not to use it in the fashion of St.Peter, but to use it in the fashion of Satanism to dis-gruntle christians. Im offended because he is not using the symbol to decorate St.Peter, he's using it to pervert the grace of christ.

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__Kratos__

I'm offended by Christian symbols on the street and in public... maybe you all Christians should stop wearing and showing them all for me.

Same applies to all other religions and sects, just stop it because you are offending me.

Surely this is a reasonable request? Is it not?

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Yelekiah

And the Swastika is on Hindu churches

The swastika is of course associated with Nazi ideology, and concentration camps, etc. The inverted cross is not exactly comparable to it in my opinion. Also it is not on the Church of Satan. LaVey wasn't using this cross in his books, etc. Rock music (less harmful than concentration camps) I think really popularized it. And people associate music with the devil and so on :P

About that cross, and perverting the grace of Christ...the cross is something some should be proud of. The Pope obviously doesn't mind being photographed next to it.

Edited by Yelekiah

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Azalin

The swastika is of course associated with Nazi ideology, and concentration camps, etc. The inverted cross is not exactly comparable to it in my opinion. Also it is not on the Church of Satan. LaVey wasn't using this cross in his books, etc. Rock music (less harmful than concentration camps) I think really popularized it. And people associate music with the devil and so on :P

About that cross, and perverting the grace of Christ...the cross is something some should be proud of. The Pope obviously doesn't mind being photographed next to it.

Yelekiah....the pope doesn't mind because the cross is being used for good. Once again, a hindu is going to stand beside a swastika at his church too, un-nerved by it's negative influences. The inverted cross is very much used for Satanic Ideology. Like you said, many band cover albums will use it, and satanic cults use it as a necklace for a symbol. LaVey really has nothing to do with the Satan, so his philosophy really doesn't come into affect in this case. Whether it be media, writers, and philosophers, this symbol of the cross is believed to be satanic through music, games, and movies, and now clothes. I know Im making a big spiel about this, but some ignorance cannot be tolerated..... I just don't know where society is going to draw the line with all this. Suicide bombers kill eachother in cities everyday over religious wars, and religious indifferences and ideologies. We watch it on T.V and wonder why, yet we forget to question these small actions we take, that could only provoke it even more.

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Yelekiah

the pope doesn't mind because the cross is being used for good.

And wearing a pair of jeans isn't evil per se. :D

The inverted cross is very much used for Satanic Ideology. Like you said, many band cover albums will use it

No, it's not; Satanic ideology would tie into LaVeyan philosophy. As for the bands that use it, they aren't necessarily Satanic.

LaVey really has nothing to do with the Satan

He thinks Satan is the best friend of the Church. :lol: He goes on and on about Satan, and even gives a background on "Lucifer" in one of his books. But if you want to get technical, the devil is just a symbol to him.

so his philosophy really doesn't come into affect in this case.

If he doesn't use the cross, no. And considering that the majority of those that call themselves Satanists are actually following his philosophy, the cross to me is not Satanic in that sense, since most Satanists don't advocate it. The bulk of people wearing the cross are overly-hormonal teens trying to rebel. I doubt they actually believe in the devil. And if they do, they are very much mistaken as to the true meaning of that cross.

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Azalin

And wearing a pair of jeans isn't evil per se. :D

No, it's not; Satanic ideology would tie into LaVeyan philosophy. As for the bands that use it, they aren't necessarily Satanic.

He thinks Satan is the best friend of the Church. :lol: He goes on and on about Satan, and even gives a background on "Lucifer" in one of his books. But if you want to get technical, the devil is just a symbol to him.

If he doesn't use the cross, no. And considering that the majority of those that call themselves Satanists are actually following his philosophy, the cross to me is not Satanic in that sense, since most Satanists don't advocate it. The bulk of people wearing the cross are overly-hormonal teens trying to rebel. I doubt they actually believe in the devil. And if they do, they are very much mistaken as to the true meaning of that cross.

From my beleif, Anton idolizes satan, because he did what he wanted, and what he thought was right. However, he has no teachinges on satan, he's just like a mascot. Actual Satanists are said to have cults that make sacrifices to Satan, pray to him directly, and go by his " teachings ".

However, if this really does bother Kratos, I don't want to continue further. He's a great person, and I love the news he brings in. Also I don't want to continue back and fourth with you Yelekiah, cause I don't think either of us are going to win, we are just going to prove good points back and fourth until we both get tired. However, I know the people that had read this thread have come to a conclusion it's a good debate. And just be aware if you do buy a pair of these jeans, don't be surprised if someone does take a bit offense too it is all.

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Yelekiah
Actual Satanists are said to have cults that make sacrifices to Satan

That's actually something LaVey teaches against. :huh:

Also I don't want to continue back and fourth with you Yelekiah

Okie dokie :tu:

I bet the Pope would like nice in the jeans. It'd go well with his prada shoes. :geek:

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__Kratos__

I bet the Pope would like nice in the jeans. It'd go well with his prada shoes. :geek:

I bet it'd go better with his Gucci shades. B)

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