Abuse

[+Paranoid Android]

Author Jim Goad recently completed a 2 and a half year stint in jail for spousal abuse. He wrote a book (sorry, the tv show he was interviewed on didn't give a name of the book) about his experience. He was abused by his wife, physically and violently assaulted, and what he did to his wife was, he claims, nothing short of battered wife syndrome, simply from the other side.

In this book, he, in his view at least, tries to dispell the myth that women are the oppressed in society. He cites (among others) two researcher's (he gave the names, but sorry, it was only short and I didn't hear the two names) that claim half of abusive relationships are two-way abuse (both partner's abusing each other), while a quarter are men only abusing women, and the last quarter women only abusing men.

Goad claims that there is a stigma attached to men bashing women, and that the courts rule unfavourably towards men. He claims his ex played the "I'm the helpless woman" card, conning the world into thinking he was just a (small) step above being a paedophile.

So, let the discussion begin...... Is there a preferential treatment in place for women, compared to men in abusive relationships. Do you think women are primarily and solely the victim's?

Regards, PA

Let it be said though that I don't necessarily ascribe to Jim Goad's beliefs or ideologies. I just thought it would be an interesting topic for debate.

[Bebi]

I believe that women can be just as abusive as men. My husband was in a previous relationship that ended when the woman involved started hitting him. He ended the relationship and she stalked him for months, ending in breaking into his home one night and attacking him with a carving knife in his sleep; he still has the scars on his arm.

[Vehement]

I would probably dare to say that women, not ALL women, are the masters of mental abuse. Especially women in this day and age generally know they have the power to get what they want when they want it. A women can easily put a man in his spot should he ever go against what she wants or believes as the right way to go.

I am not saying that there are not men out there that are very aggressive and try to take advantage of any sensitive women that might stand in his way, both physically and mentally, I am just stating that women are beginning to understand they now have the ability to stand up for themselves and hold their own. Should a women have the ultimate desire to gain something, she could use many tricks to get there that men could never even fathom.

[EmpressV]

PA how does this in any way relate to spirituality v skepticism? This would probably fare better in the general discussion forum. IMO

[+Paranoid Android]

Curiosity, you have a point. I suppose I put this in the section it is because people here will actually debate the issue I raised. Maybe it doesn't fit in this sectiion, I saw it on a program in Australia called Speaking In Tongues (I've mentioned it before). And since that is a spirituality vs skepticism program, it just seemed obvious to me that this belongs here.... (Maybe this is because i have the benefit of seeing the program, complete and in context). The hosts John Safran (a Jew by birth, but very skeptical, and Father Bob, a Catholic Priest from Melbourne) discuss the issue from their respective viewpoints.

I guess, in the context of spirituality (or is it perhaps the human condition) is there a difference, perceived or otherwise, of the status of women in our society. Goad's ex, according to Goad, played the victim card in court, and the jury/judge just lapped it up, ignoring the male side of things.

I'm not sure now. i guess it's up to the moderator now, to move it or not. I don't know, now that you've mentioned it.

Regards, PA

Edited January 16, 2006 by Paranoid Android

[EmpressV]

You could leave it here if it were to evolve into how the bible views abuse. But that would be obviously slanted toward the male domination over women. Is this really where you want this to go?

[Super Pancake]

I would probably dare to say that women, not ALL women, are the masters of mental abuse. Especially women in this day and age generally know they have the power to get what they want when they want it. A women can easily put a man in his spot should he ever go against what she wants or believes as the right way to go.

You are so right especially mothers with their children. I remember my psychology teacher, quoting on of his patience as descriping her mother as a sharpshooter of the soul.

[Watzel]

"Is there a preferential treatment in place for women, compared to men in abusive relationships. Do you think women are primarily and solely the victim's?"

Yes I think there is preferential treatment in place for women. Although physical abuse is usually more likely to be from males due to their, usually, physical advantage, it doesn't always apply. But mental abuse can be just as painful over time. And women are just as likely as men to do that.

I know that women are not the sole victims personally. I had a girl friend that thought it was perfectly ok to hit a man, and she did to me once, but that it was taboo for a man to hit a woman.

I think females are being influenced these days to think they can hit, but males should not.

I don't think hitting is right either way. Talk it out or let it go.

[Bebi]

Well said Watzel

I think feminism can go a bit too far sometimes.

[Bebi]

You could leave it here if it were to evolve into how the bible views abuse. But that would be obviously slanted toward the male domination over women. Is this really where you want this to go?

There are other religions than those which use the Bible; many of the Pagan religions worship the feminine over the masculine or are equal in their views.

[Magikman]

I'm going to go ahead and move this to the 'general off-topic' section, but I'll leave the original link in the 'spirituality' section up, that way both bases will be covered.

[Raptor]

When it comes to violence, it's wrong for a man to hit a woman, but equally wrong for a woman to hit a man. In other words, no one should be hitting any one.

[distortedpandy]

When it comes to violence, it's wrong for a man to hit a woman, but equally wrong for a woman to hit a man. In other words, no one should be hitting any one.

Agreed

[Beckys_Mom]

Goad claims that there is a stigma attached to men bashing women, and that the courts rule unfavourably towards men. He claims his ex played the "I'm the helpless woman" card, conning the world into thinking he was just a (small) step above being a paedophile.

So, let the discussion begin...... Is there a preferential treatment in place for women, compared to men in abusive relationships. Do you think women are primarily and solely the victim's?

Regards, PA

Let it be said though that I don't necessarily ascribe to Jim Goad's beliefs or ideologies. I just thought it would be an interesting topic for debate.

You don't believe in his beliefs ref to this topic...can you in your own words PA tell me what you think is right?

IMO there is no excuse for violence regardless if you are male or female

It is said that men are stronger than women...in most cases that is true..but not all

If a man goes out of his way to beat up his wife for the slightest lil reason and has anger issues..then IMO that man is a coward

The same if a woman beats her man for very lil reason..she too is just as bad

If a woman strikes a man that has beaten her up several times over in the past and she never retaliated in the past but snapped somewhere along the line and beat the living tar out of him once and for all......do you think she did wrong?

What about a woman that strikes a man out of anger..is it right for that man to strike back in defence?...IMO yes...I grew up defending myself...when I struck someone back..they didn't attack me again.

If I struck my partner out of anger and he walked away...that would make me feel rotton for what I had done and I would be the one that was sorry....so I guess that way works also

[Bebi]

If a woman strikes a man that has beaten her up several times over in the past and she never retaliated in the past but snapped somewhere along the line and beat the living tar out of him once and for all......do you think she did wrong?

I wouldn't class a man as "doing wrong" in exactly that situation. Not all men are physically or emotionally stronger than women. I'm sure there are just as many dominant female abusive relationships as there are dominant male ones. The female aggressor cases are just not as widely publicised. This I feel is due to a couple of reasons. 1: Men are seen to be the dominant sex in society so most males in this situation would feel ashamed to speak up about the experience. 2) Women are seen as the weaker sex, for this reason any man who is suffering "battered husband syndrome" is seen as having deserved it for being so weak. How many women are said to have deserved being abused "because they were too weak"? Think about it.

As far as I am concerned both sexes should read from the same moral code-book so to speak. The stereotypes regarding male and female contribute to so many problems in society.

[nativechick1989]

No one should ever experience the pain of getting hit by someone they love/someone they should feel safe with . . female or male. No one should ever have to experience abuse, either physical or verbal!

[AutumnDragon]

I think the law go too easy on females

[through the fire]

the law is set up with the females best interests put first and the man isnt really considered at all

its the same with child support/custody etc

but to be honest i think a lot of women enjoy the "abuse"

nice guys finish last

[Beckys_Mom]

the law is set up with the females best interests put first and the man isnt really considered at all

its the same with child support/custody etc

but to be honest i think a lot of women enjoy the "abuse"

nice guys finish last

What makes you think women enjoy the abuse?

[dariaru05]

Had to reply...Long, please be patient.

I worked for a domestic violence program for a few years. I agree with everyone who has said that hitting is wrong, no matter what gender's doing it. Mental/emotional abuse is wrong, no matter who is doing it. I'm sure I probably worked with hundreds of people in those years, and the majority of clients were women. I'm not sure why.

I did work with some male victims and it was hard for them to come forward and ask for help. A lot of them felt emasculated because a woman was hurting them. Those feelings on top of the other feelings of fear, confusion at being hurt by someone they loved, and embarassment. It was even harder for these fellows to take their cases to court, where defense attorneys liked to play the "you're a wus for claiming the little woman beat you up, " card.

Some of you seem to think that women get the better deal in court, and maybe so in your area, but here in the rural South, I've seen some court decisions that made my head spin, and I wondered if the judge saw the same trial I did. I don't think that domestic abuse by either sex is taken very seriously and the victim's actions are more scrutinized than the abuser's.

Just my comments as a person who was on the "front lines" of this problem way too long and got burned out trying to do something about it.

[Xyfer]

Nobody likes to be abused.. man or woman.

[Super Pancake]

I'm sure I probably worked with hundreds of people in those years, and the majority of clients were women. I'm not sure why.

A lot of them felt emasculated because a woman was hurting them. Those feelings on top of the other feelings of fear, confusion at being hurt by someone they loved, and embarassment. It was even harder for these fellows to take their cases to court, where defense attorneys liked to play the "you're a wus for claiming the little woman beat you up, " card.

You answered it in your post. Men are too proud or embarrassed to ever come forward with their feelings. Its been beat into us since childhood to be strong and never cry over silly things like feelings or abuse. I saw a documentary called "rasing cain", very enlightening stuff. They say males are more emotionally vulnerable, but years of brainwashing of what the ideal man should be shuts these emotions down and are not hurt by them no more and makes them lack empathy.

[+Paranoid Android]

You don't believe in his beliefs ref to this topic...can you in your own words PA tell me what you think is right?

On whether it is right or wrong, I take the general consensus - it is wrong to be abusive, no matter who is doing it.

As for society's perception - I ahve no opinion..... yet. It is the stereo-type that a male is the one giving the abuse, but is this the reality? Do the courts believe the word of a woman over that of a man in these instances? "Oh, yer honour, I'm just a little girly, what could I possibly do *bats eye-lashes*. I'm the innocent victim here". Versus: "She's beaten me twice a day, every day for the past four years. Finally I snapped and attacked back"

The reason I posted this topic was more to discuss the perceptions. Some have answered, and thank you for those replies, but I thought this should be more than about "this is wrong". Is there unfair treatment between the sexes in abuse cases, in the court of Law.

Regards, PA

edit:

You answered it in your post. Men are too proud or embarrassed to ever come forward with their feelings. Its been beat into us since childhood to be strong and never cry over silly things like feelings or abuse. I saw a documentary called "rasing cain", very enlightening stuff. They say males are more emotionally vulnerable, but years of brainwashing of what the ideal man should be shuts these emotions down and are not hurt by them no more and makes them lack empathy.

slightly off-topic, but ths is the basis for my theory on why women, statistically, live longer than men -

Women don't bottle up their emotions. You'll see them go over to their best friend's house, tell each other everything, have crying sessions periodically, and pretty much release all the negative emotions. Men on the other hand keep it all in. IF they have a problem, they have to work it out on their own. How many men do you see chatting over a packet of Tim-Tam's and crying about everything? Thus, women have less stress, thus they live longer. It's only a theory, but I'm sure I'm right.

I wish I was a girl sometimes (not literally of course, but you know what I mean)

Edited January 17, 2006 by Paranoid Android

[Subtemperate]

You'll see them go over to their best friend's house, tell each other everything, have crying sessions periodically, and pretty much release all the negative emotions. Men on the other hand keep it all in.

I know far more women then I do men that hold things in and try to do all on their own.... that in itself is a rather stereotypical view.....

...If you'd ever been on a golf course you'd see men don't hold in all their negative emotions lol

[+Paranoid Android]

Yeah, I guess it is stereotypical now that you mention it, but all the girls I know are real girlie girls who do this.

And no, I've never been golfing. I can't think of anything worse than walking around all day after a silly little white ball, only to hit it away again

edit: does Putt Putt mini-golf count?

Edited January 17, 2006 by Paranoid Android