Dan. 9 & 11, Antichrist, the tribulation

[antiaging]

I am posting this to correct what I think is an obvious and serious error in

Bible prophecy interpretation of Dan. 11.

Dan.11:31, about the daily sacrifice taken away and the placing of the

abomination that makes desolate, is obviously the same thing spoken of in

Dan.12:11, where this is supposed to happen 1290 days from the end of the

world. Yet bible scholars say that it happened before 163 BC, when antiochus

Epiphanes offered a swine upon the alter. This cannot be true, because Jesus

said that this is a future prophecy that will happen at the time of the end,

in Matt. 24:3 – 22. This obvious error comes from the apocryphal book

1Maccabees 1:44-50; Macc. 5:30,31. The appocryphal books contain errors and

fiction that cannot be trusted that is why they were rejected for

establishing doctrine.

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy

city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make

reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and

to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the

commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince

shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be

built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but

not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy

the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and

unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in

the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to

cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate,

even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the

desolate.

The 70 weeks of punishment on Israel in Dan. 9 are shown in more detail in

Dan. 11.

The angel Gabriel told Daniel that 70 weeks of punishment for iniquity would

be visited upon Israel for her sins. That is referring to 70 weeks of years

or 70 times 7 years. Dan. 9:24 shows these are years of punishment.

The first 69 years of this punishment on Israel happen before Messiah comes.

Then it says that Messiah would be killed, Dan.9:26, and in the same verse

it tells that the people that the antichrist (the prince that shall come)

will come from, will destroy the city and the sancturary. The Romans did

that in 70AD. This shows that the antichrist will be a Roman prince or

ruler. Notice, that there is an historical break of over 1900 years in that

one verse, going from the death of Jesus, to the prince that shall come, the

antichrist. 69 of the 70 weeks of years had passed, and there is one 7 year

period of punishment on Israel left.

[The reason for this over 1900 year break in time is because as it says in

Daniel 9:24, the seventy weeks are determined upon the Jews and Jerusalem.

It must be fulfilled when the Jews are a nation and living in Jerusalem.

From around AD 70 onward, the Jews were a scattered people and not a nation

living at Jerusalem. So only the 69 weeks could be fulfilled till that time.

In Dan. 9:26 it tells of the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD and it says

desolations are determined. This is the period that Israel will be desolate

for over 1900 years. Israel became a nation again in 1948 and got control of

Jerusalem in 1967. Now the remaining last week of 7 years can be fulfilled.

Week number 70.]

Dan. 9:27 shows that this prince that shall come, the antichrist, will make

a 7 year covenant with Israel, and in the middle of the 7 years, he will

cause the sacrifice and oblation that Israel offers to God to stop, and for

the abominations, in those days, the antichrist shall make desolation or

destruction even until the end of the world. The time of that 7 year

covenant is the final 7 years till the end of the world called the

tribulation period. The last 3 and a half years of it are called the great

tribulation, by Bible scholars

If you look at Daniel chapter 11 you will see in detail what happened during

the 69 weeks, or 69 times 7 years that Israel was punished before Messiah

came, and you will see in detail what will happen during week 70 which will

happen during the last 7 years till the end of the world. Daniel was given

this knowledge years later.

Starting in Daniel 11:2 and going through till Daniel 11:17, it is talking

about the reason for the trouble that happened to Israel during the 69 times

7 years before Messiah came. Israel was oppressed by Babylon, and then

Babylon was taken over by Medo Persia which was continuing to oppress Israel

at the time of the writing.

It starts by talking about the remaining kings to rule over Persia, and then

it shows that Greece would take over Persia, then Israel would be oppressed

by Greece. Then it talks about how the kingdom of Greece was divided after

Alexander the great (the mighty king in verse 3), and Greece was divided

into four parts under the rule of 4 of Alexander’s generals. Then it focuses

on two of these divisions. The King of the North and the King of the South.

The King of the South, Ptolemy Lagidae, who seized Egypt, on the death of

Alexander. The King of the North, Seleucus I, who seized Syria, Babylon and

Media. The Southern Kingdom continued till 30 BC when Rome took over Egypt.

The northern Kingdom lasted till 65 BC when Roman general Pompey reduced

Syria to a Roman province. From verse 11:5 till verse 11:17 it is talking

about wars between these two kingdoms. The King of the North, Syria, and the

King of the South, Egypt, and the descendents of these kings made wars back

and forth for 175 years (more or less). The king of the north refers to

any of these Syrian kings and king of the south refers to any of these

Egyptian kings, during all of those years. As these North and South empires

would have wars, they would march through palestine, back and forth and

opress the Jews. It is the wars between these two empires that brought the

Jews to poverty during all of this time, and when Rome took over Syria and

palestine, the Romans also oppressed the Jews. This fulfills the punishment

on the Jews and Jerusalem during the 69 weeks of punishment for iniquity,

spoken of in Daniel 9: 25. [There are two historical breaks in these

scriptures; Dan11:6- in the end of years; Dake says 65 years; and Dan.11:13-

after certain years; Dake say 14 years. I think this is the mistake; it is

much longer than that leading up to the time of Julius Caesar and Pompey.

Because the next verse talks about those standing up to Egypt which I think

is around the time Rome started to gain power, and Pompey was excercising

naval power.]

Focusing in on these scriptures in Dan. 11:

Daniel 11:15 So the king of the north shall come, and cast up a mount, and

take the most fenced cities: and the arms of the south shall not withstand,

neither his chosen people, neither shall there be any strength to withstand.

Daniel 11:16 But he that cometh against him shall do according to his own

will, and none shall stand before him: and he shall stand in the glorious

land, which by his hand shall be consumed.

Daniel 11:17 He shall also set his face to enter with the strength of his

whole kingdom, and upright ones with him; thus shall he do: and he shall

give him the daughter of women, corrupting her: but she shall not stand on

his side, neither be for him.

Daniel 11:18 After this shall he turn his face unto the isles, and shall

take many: but a prince for his own behalf shall cause the reproach offered

by him to cease; without his own reproach he shall cause it to turn upon

him.

Daniel 11:19 Then he shall turn his face toward the fort of his own land:

but he shall stumble and fall, and not be found.

Daniel 11:20 Then shall stand up in his estate a raiser of taxes in the

glory of the kingdom: but within few days he shall be destroyed, neither in

anger, nor in battle.

Daniel 11:21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they

shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably,

and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.

In verse 11:16, the Roman general Pompey comes against the King of the

North, Tigranes, of Syria, and he takes control over Syria. [Note: From here on a Roman ruler can be called king of

the north, and Rome is indeed to the north of Jerusalem.] Pompey also takes

Jerusalem, (the glorious land) during this same military campaign, of Pompey

66-61BC. Pompey then went back to Rome and became the head of the

conservative party in the Senate, controlling the Senate. Pompey and Julius

Caesar were the two rulers after the death of Crassus. Caesar was charged

with war crimes and ordered to give up control of his army. This offered a

reproach to Caesar, who broke with the Senate and marched his army back

toward Rome, starting a Civil war between Caesar and Pompey. Pompey ordered

a retreat and fled with his allies in the senate to the isles of Greece. I

believe this is what verse 11:18 is talking about. “After this” which means

some time went by, Pompey turned his face unto the isles and he took many

under his control there, while he built up a new army to fight with Caesar.

It says, “but a prince for his own behalf shall cause the reproach offered

by him to cease”. I believe this is referring to Julius Caesar, (who was

acting on his own behalf because he had broke with the Senate and became

dictator), defeating Pompey at the battle of Pharsalus in 48 BC when Caesar’

s army met up with Pompey. So, Caesar caused the reproach offered by Pompey

to cease, like it says in verse 11:18. Pompey then fled to Egypt where he

was assasinated by the Egyptians. Julius Caesar was the first Roman ruler

that ruled the Roman political empire and that also had the title of

Pontifex Maximus, which is also the high priest and ruler of the Roman

religion. Every Roman emporer after Julius Caesar ruled both the Roman

political empire and was Pontifex Maximus ruling the Roman religion also.

This is the estate that Julius Caesar, and Caesar Augustus and every Roman

emporer occupied.

Daniel 11:19 Then he shall turn his face toward the fort of his own land:

but he shall stumble and fall, and not be found.

After spending a short time in Egypt, and a short time in Asia Minor. Caesar

then returned to Rome in Sept. of 47 BC. Caesar was assasinated while in

Rome.

Daniel 11:20 Then shall stand up in his estate a raiser of taxes in the

glory of the kingdom: but within few days he shall be destroyed, neither in

anger, nor in battle.

Note: the word “then”, indicating the next one to occupy the estate.

Caesar Augustus was the next one to occupy the estate of being both Roman

emporer, head of the state, and Pontifex Maximus, head of the Roman

religion. Augustus raised two great taxings of the people. He died

peacefully and not in anger shortly after the second one. Note it says

taxes, plural, which could mean more than one taxing. The first of these

taxings was done when Joseph went to Bethelehem at the time of the birth of

Jesus.

Luke 2:1 And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree

from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed.

Daniel 11:21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they

shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably,

and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.

Note the word “And”, which indicates that it could be a person that occupies

this estate at some future time. This vile person is the future Antichrist.

You can trace carefully what is said throughout the rest of Dan. 11 and see

that it is referring to the same man, and it goes to the time of the end of

the world, leading into chapter 12. Just like in Dan. 9 there is an

historical break of over 1900 years from the time of Jesus to the mentioning

of the Antichrist, in Dan. 11 there is a similar break from the time of

Augustus (Jesus was alive then, as a boy) to the antichrist, over 1900

years. The estate of ruler of the Roman empire (which is now the holy roman

empire) and ruler of the roman religion (pontifex maximus) passed on to the

popes of Rome. The Antichrist should be the last pope, or last Roman

pontiff.

Daniel 11:22 And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from

before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant.

Daniel 11:23 And after the league made with him he shall work deceitfully:

for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people.

This league made with him is referring to the covenant in Daniel 9:27, and

this verse also is referring to the abomination that makes desolate in Dan.

1131 and 12:11.

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in

the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to

cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate,

even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the

desolate.

So the events in Dan. 11 are a more detailed account of what already

happened in the 69 weeks in Dan. 9, and Dan 11 shows what will happen in

week 70, in Dan 9, when the antichrist is going to rule. Dan. 11:23 should

mark the beginning of the last 7 years till the end of the world, and the

events of those future 7 years go till the end of Dan 11 and some of it is

explained in Dan 12. Those events from Dan 11:23 onward should match up with

the events in Revelation, if you could see how they fit together.

Daniel 11 does not even speak of Antiochus Epiphanes at all. The scriptures

jump from Antiochus III, (called the Great) to Antiochus XIII, who reigned

after Antiochus Epiphanes. The jump in the scriptures is marked by a time

break in history in verse Dan. 11:13.

Daniel 11:13 For the king of the north shall return, and shall set forth a

multitude greater than the former, and shall certainly come after certain

years with a great army and with much riches.

Those words "after certain years" are an unspecified time break in history.

He does not tell you how many years. Any of the Kings of Syria, that follow

can be called king of the North, who reigned after this time break started.

You need to find the particular King of Syria that fits with the rest of the

scriptures. I say it is Tigranes, the one that was defeated by Roman

general Pompey. Dan. 11:16-20 fit well with this interpretation.

Raiser of Taxes in the glory of the Kingdom, verse 20, fits Caesar Augustus

very well. When Augustus reigned the Roman Empire had its greatest time of

peace and prosperity call Pax Romano. The Kingdom of Rome was glorious at

that time. The Bible scholars such as Dake, that hold the Antiochus

Epiphanes interpretation, try to say that the raiser of taxes was Seleucus

IV, King of Syria. His Kingdom was not glorious at that time and does not

fit with the scripture. He needed tax money to pay off Rome in a war

indemnity. Also, he was assasinated and was killed in anger which

contradicts verse 20.

Daniel 11:20 Then shall stand up in his estate a raiser of taxes [in] the

glory of the kingdom: but within few days he shall be destroyed, neither in

anger, nor in battle.

Refering to what I get out of Daniel 11 in the last week:

Daniel 11:23 And after the league [made] with him he shall work

deceitfully: for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small

people.

Daniel 11:24 He shall enter peaceably even upon the fattest places of the

province; and he shall do [that] which his fathers have not done, nor his

fathers' fathers; he shall scatter among them the prey, and spoil, and

riches: [yea], and he shall forecast his devices against the strong holds,

even for a time.

Daniel 11:25 And he shall stir up his power and his courage against the

king of the south with a great army; and the king of the south shall be

stirred up to battle with a very great and mighty army; but he shall not

stand: for they shall forecast devices against him.

The Antichrist (the last pope) will use ten nations from the European Union

to give him the political and military power to try to conquer the world

militarily. Where it says, he shall forecst devices, it may be referring to

nuclear missiles, because much of the tribulation period in Revelation looks

like the effects cause by Nuclear war.

The king of the south in Daniel 11, as it applies

during the last 7 years, is probably referring to Egypt that will have an

alliance with other Moslem countries. So if the Antichrist is fighting Egypt

he is probably going to be fighting mostly all of the Moslems in the area.

It will be another war between catholicism and Islam only this time it will

use nuclear weapons and cause much more devastation.

he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy

covenant.

Daniel 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the

sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they

shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

Have intelligence with them that forsake the covenant - to me that means

that Roman catholic Jews will have infiltrated the Israeli Govt., as spies,

and they will betray Israel to the forces of the antichrist (the European

Union) and they will take over Israel peacefully and treacherously without

needing to go to war with Israel. [The vatican has a very extensive

undercover organization with many spies that have infiltrated the news

media, entertainment industry and governments around the world, and also

other religions. All of those catholic spies take orders from the Jesuit

general.]

This will happen 3 and one half years before the end. Then the Antichrist is

going to make Jerusalem where he will rule from.

The vatican city in Rome will be destroyed, the

fall of Babylon in Revelation 17. Rome is probably destroyed to shift the

Antichrist's capital to Jerusalem. Perhaps catholicism will be destroyed

with it and a form of Beast or antichrist worship will be imposed on the

people. Many Jews will flee the area and be sheltered from the Antichrist

forces around Petra, and surrounding regions. The remainder of the Jews

left, in Israel and Jerusalem, will go through another Roman catholic

inquisition like the holocaust.

The two witnesses will witness against the Antichrist at Jerusalem, and be

killed and rise again. During all of this, last 3 and a half years, the

great natural disasters and plagues and punishiments spoken of in revelation

will be happening and many men will die.

The rapture of the church will take place with the resurection of the dead

Christians, (post tribulation), then the marriage supper of the lamb, then

Jesus and the saints return with angels to defeat the antichrist forces at

armageddon. [if angels pilot UFOs, then the second coming of Christ will be

a UFO invasion. The angels will be sent out to gather the sinners and throw

them in hell.] The thousand year reign of Christ will start.

That is an overvue of what I see happening in Daniel and Revelation during

the last 7 years.

I believe Ezekiel chapters 38 and 39 will happen before the tribulation

period

starts. What is happening now in the middle east is leading up to the

prophecy in Ezekiel 38 and 39.

Pope's title, Vicar of Christ, means antichrist by definition.

JESUS CHRIST HAS NO VlCAR. Vicar, from the Latin "vicarius" means "in the

place of" e.g. vicarius sacrifice of Christ being His sacrifice in the place

of the sinner. Papal claims such as infallibility, Head of the Church, Holy

Father, all seek to put the Pope in the place of Christ, which place only

the Living Christ can have. This false assumption of Rome is expressly put

forward in the Papal title "Vicar of Jesus Christ".

The New Testament was written in Greek, and the Greek translation of " vicar

of Christ" is "Anti (instead of)-christos", or in our English Bible,

"Antichrist". The word "Antichrist" is not just a word of wild insult, but

is a Bible warning of the false role assumed by the Popes of Rome as

supposed vicars of Christ, (See 1 John 2:18 D.V.).

The Greek word for "Vice President" is "Anti-Proedros"; Because Anti, which

means opposite, also means "replacement" or "instead", as in Vicar or

Viceroy or Vicarious.

Edited February 3, 2006 by antiaging

[el_burdokai]

OMG! I admire the time you spent and the work you had but is there any way to make a little summary for a lazy person like me who hasn't got time to read a whole romance right

now. Interely my fault not yours.

Edited January 31, 2006 by el_burdokai

[PLO]

what i find diturbing in the book of revelations is that it is prophacised our rivers and seas will be filled with blood which will cuase their distruction and that all those without the mark of the beast will not be able to carry out monatery transactions.

Being the paranoid chap that i am, i see this is pollution and bio-metric chips, Lol probably not though eh. but the pollution bit well we certainly have destroyed our natural water systems pretty efficiently.

Edited January 31, 2006 by PLO

[mako]

I find it ludicrous that you wasted your time on a book that experts agree is a pseudepigraph dated at around 168 BCE, not back during the exile! It and Enoch were penned by Maccabean scribes in the 2nd century BCE.

[PLO]

would mention that to the ethiopians.

[draconic chronicler]

It really shouldn't bother any Christians, for after all, Enoch is still much older than the new testament, and it is pretty clear that enoch was well known and used in the time of Jesus. I agree with Mako that Daniel is a later work from the same time as the Maccabees and other apochryphal works, but diagree on his earlier comment that Job was also from that period.

Some of these works are disturbing to Christians because many of the ideas in them are hauntingly similar to the teachings of Jesus, yet long before Jesus.

[antiaging]

I find it ludicrous that you wasted your time on a book that experts agree is a pseudepigraph dated at around 168 BCE, not back during the exile! It and Enoch were penned by Maccabean scribes in the 2nd century BCE.

You are incorrect, ( as usual).

Finis Jennings Dake was an expert. [From Dake's annotated reference bible page 872 ]

Daniel was written from Babylon and Shushan about 606 or 616 to 536 BC.

It was written by Daniel, a captive from Judah, an interpreter of dreams and a prophet.

The Jewish bible scholars regard the book of Daniel as being genuine inspired scripture written by the prophet Daniel and the book of Daniel is in the Jewish canon of the Old Testament.

[The pseudepigraphs written during the time of the maccabees, are called the apocrypha, and they are not included in the Jewish canon of scripture. The apocryphal books are considered by both Jews and protestants to be false, and not inspired Scripture.]

The Apocrypha is a collection of uninspired, spurious books written by various individuals. The Catholic religion considers these books as scripture just like a Bible-believer believes that our 66 books are the word of God, i.e., Genesis to Revelation. We are going to examine some verses from the Apocrypha later in our discussion.

At the Council of Trent (1546) the Roman Catholic religion pronounced the following apocryphal books sacred. They asserted that the apocryphal books together with unwritten tradition are of God and are to be received and venerated as the Word of God. So now you have the Bible, the Apocrypha and Catholic Tradition as co-equal sources of truth for the Catholic. In reality, the Bible is the last source of truth for Catholics. Catholic doctrine comes primarily from tradition stuck together with a few Bible names. In my reading of Catholic materials, I find notes like this: "You have to keep the Bible in perspective." Catholics do not believe that the Bible is God's complete revelation for man.

The Roman Catholic Apocrypha

Tobit

Judith

Wisdom

Ecclesiasticus

Baruch

First and Second Maccabees

Additions to Esther and Daniel

Apocryphal Books rejected by the Catholic Religion:

First and Second Esdras

Prayer of Manasses

Why the Apocrypha Isn't in the Bible.

1. Not one of the apocryphal books is written in the Hebrew language, which was alone used by the inspired historians and poets of the Old Testament. All Apocryphal books are in Greek, except one which is extant only in Latin.

2. None of the apocryphal writers laid claim to inspiration.

3. The apocryphal books were never acknowledged as sacred scriptures by the Jews, custodians of the Hebrew scriptures (the apocrypha was written prior to the New Testament). In fact, the Jewish people rejected and destroyed the apocrypha after the overthow of Jerusalem in 70 A.D.

4. The apocryphal books were not permitted among the sacred books during the first four centuries of the real Christian church (I'm certainly not talking about the Catholic religion which is not Christian).

5. The Apocrypha contains fabulous statements which not only contradict the "canonical" scriptures but themselves. For example, in the two Books of Maccabees, Antiochus Epiphanes is made to die three different deaths in three different places.

6. The Apocrypha includes doctrines in variance with the Bible, such as prayers for the dead and sinless perfection. The following verses are taken from the Apocrypha translation by Ronald Knox dated 1954:

Basis for the doctrine of purgatory:

2 Maccabees 12:43-45, 2.000 pieces of silver were sent to Jerusalem for a sin-offering...Whereupon he made reconciliation for the dead, that they might be delivered from sin.

Salvation by works:

Ecclesiasticus 3:30, Water will quench a flaming fire, and alms maketh atonement for sin.

Tobit 12:8-9, 17, It is better to give alms than to lay up gold; for alms doth deliver from death, and shall purge away all sin.

Magic:

Tobit 6:5-8, If the Devil, or an evil spirit troubles anyone, they can be driven away by making a smoke of the heart, liver, and gall of a fish...and the Devil will smell it, and flee away, and never come again anymore.

Mary was born sinless (immaculate conception):

Wisdom 8:19-20, And I was a witty child and had received a good soul. And whereas I was more good, I came to a body undefiled.

7. It teaches immoral practices, such as lying, suicide, assasination and magical incantation.

8. No apocryphal book is referred to in the New Testament whereas the Old Testament is referred to hundreds of times.

9. Because of these and other reasons, the apocryphal books are only valuable as ancient documents illustrative of the manners, language, opinions and history of the East.

Additions to Daniel is mentioned as part of the apocrypha, and that is a pseudipigraph. The additions to Daniel is not accepted by protestants or Jews.

Daniel chapters 9 and 11 are not part of the additions to Daniel.

Daniel 9 & 11 are parts of the original book of Daniel that is considered genuine inspired scripture by the Jews and protestants.

Edited February 1, 2006 by antiaging

[PLO]

"It was written by Daniel, a captive from Judah, an interpreter of dreams and a prophet"

no it wasnt, it reflects the persecutions of Israelis by Antiochus IV Epiphanes.

[mako]

Again you astound me, first you offer material from a man that died around 30 years ago, back when the Maximalists were in control of biblical studies and archaeology. Things have come a long way since then, most of the breakthroughs on epigraphic studies of the bible have been made in the last 15 years of so, as has most of the archaeological findings that are shaking up the long held beliefs of the Maxmalists! Second, you quote a man that mainstream Christianity consider to be heretical. Most Christian scholars point out that there are severe problems with his work and the theology contained in such. Some people consider his works to be cultic, hardly an endorsement for him or his findings!

[antiaging]

"It was written by Daniel, a captive from Judah, an interpreter of dreams and a prophet"

no it wasnt, it reflects the persecutions of Israelis by Antiochus IV Epiphanes.

The main reason why this is falsely related to Antiochus Epiphanes is because over 100 years BC, he took a pig and offered it on the Jewish alter as an insult to the Jews. The Jews knew of the prophecy in Daniel about an evil ruler that was supposed to take away the daily sacrifice and place an abomination. So, they thought this was fulfilled when Anticochus Epiphanes did it. However, according to scripture, this cannot refer to Antiochus Epiphanes.

The verses asscociated with this are here:

Daniel 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

Daniel 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

You see in that verse in Matthew, that Jesus said that this was going to be a future event, from the time that He spoke of it. Antiochus Epiphanes was long dead before Jesus was born. The verses in Matthew 24, are about the events leading up to the end of the World before Jesus returns with an army of angels to take over the world by force. So, the event described in Daniel 11, about the abomination, is something that a future ruler, called the antichrist, is going to do close to the end of the world .

You see in Dan. 12, it says that the event of the abomination will happen 1290 days before the end of the world. Daniel 12 is also about the end of the world when the dead will be raised up, and the world system as we know it will come to an end.

For those reasons, what is said in Daniel 11 cannot be about Antiochus Epiphanes, who died many years before Jesus was even born.

[The Jewish nation at the time of the Maccabees and at the time of Jesus had fallen into aposctacy and they could not interpret scripture correctly.]

[antiaging]

Again you astound me, first you offer material from a man that died around 30 years ago, back when the Maximalists were in control of biblical studies and archaeology. Things have come a long way since then, most of the breakthroughs on epigraphic studies of the bible have been made in the last 15 years of so, as has most of the archaeological findings that are shaking up the long held beliefs of the Maxmalists! Second, you quote a man that mainstream Christianity consider to be heretical.

Most Christian scholars point out that there are severe problems with his work and the theology contained in such. Some people consider his works to be cultic, hardly an endorsement for him or his findings!

Many people that call themselves Christian are not really Christian. - So it is with fake bible experts.

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

They talk the talk, but don't walk the walk!!!

Matthew 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

Only real born again Christians, that have the Holy Spirit of God with them, can interpret the bible correctly.

Edited February 4, 2006 by antiaging

[baastetnoir]

maybe this link will help...if it doesn't I appologise... I always thought the Book of Daniel is the Key for Prophecy, things to come...not yet passed...

Daniel 70 x 7

[mako]

So it is with fake bible experts.

I assume you are referring to Finis Jennings Dake

They talk the talk, but don't walk the walk!!!

Yeah, you must be referring to Mr Dake!

Only real born again Christians, that have the Holy Spirit of God with them, can interpret the bible correctly.

And how do you tell who real born again Christians are? If they are devil-inspired, they could do as you and claim to be real born again Christians! Just remember, Jesus is said to have established his church upon this rock (Peter is a variant of the Greek Petros, meaning “rock”), meaning that the church that Peter founded was the church of Jesus. Peter founded the church in Rome, which eventually became the Catholic Church. Now what is the best way for Satan to attack the church? Through the members is only slightly effective, but if you start getting groups to splinter off from the church, such as the Protestant movement and the splintering of the Protestants (such as your little cult), and having them use the worst translation of the bible (JKV), then Satan is successful in subsuming the church. It isn’t too late, you can go back to the true church before Jesus returns (that is if you believe that sort of ordure).

[Bella-Angelique]

The historical inaccuracies and incorrect interpretations used in this hate speech against Catholics are so many I could easily spend a hour on pointing things out.

How about just this much. Julius Caesar was never emperor over any empire. There was no Roman empire in his lifetime. His title was dictator and his estate he ruled over was called The Republic of Rome.

This "expert" also missed another important fact. Cleopatra owned and ruled the Roman province of Palestine when it was given to her by Mark Athony, before any Roman empire existed.

And as for a pope becoming THE Antichrist, the term estate refers to lands. The last land of the Holy Roman Empire is called in English, Germany and tax collector means a government job in ancient and modern times. Religious leaders collect tithes.

All of this post by an "expert" is a long twisted hate speech, nothing more.

[Mekorig]

I love this kind of post. It are too funny to read, whit people like antiaging.

[Pontius Pilate]

I believe I have found the website of Antiaging's cult/denomination:

http://www.truechristian.com/atheists.html

[mako]

Augustus raised two great taxings of the people. He died

peacefully and not in anger shortly after the second one. Note it says

taxes, plural, which could mean more than one taxing. The first of these

taxings was done when Joseph went to Bethelehem at the time of the birth of

Jesus.

Another mistake made in the original posting:

It is always hard to tell exactly what Antiaging is speaking of. With the Romans, Censuses were conducted for purposes of taxation and In his account of the major events of his life, Augustus wrote that he conducted official censuses in 28 BCE, 8 BCE, 6 CE and 14 CE. Dio Cassius the Roman historian wrote that in 6 CE Caesar Augustus set up a fund to benefit the Roman military and had kings and certain communities contribute to it. He also made a sizable contribution and promised to do so each year. When this did not provide sufficient funds to keep the military going, he issued a worldwide decree that there would be a 5% inheritance tax on estates/inheritances, something beyond normal taxation. Such taxation would require a census to register transferable assets, such as land, and to record genealogies to establish “very near relatives” (Roman History LV 25:5-6).

Josephus noted the effects of this decree in Judea: “Now Cyrenius, a Roman senator, and one who had gone through other magistracies, and had passed through them till he had been consul, and one who, on other accounts, was of great dignity, came at this time into Syria, with a few others, being sent by Caesar to be a judge of that nation, and to take an account of their substance. Coponius also, a man of the equestrian order, was sent together with him, to have the supreme power over the Jews. Moreover, Cyrenius came himself into Judea, which was now added to the province of Syria, to take an account of their substance, and to dispose of Archelaus' money; but the Jews, although at the beginning they took the report of a taxation heinously, yet did they leave off any further opposition to it." (Antiquities. XVIII 1:1). He further reported "a certain Galilean, whose name was Judas, prevailed with his countrymen to revolt; and said they were cowards if they would endure to pay a tax to the Romans, and would, after God, submit to mortal men as their lords." (Wars II 8:1). In Antiquities XX 5:2, he wrote of "Judas who caused the people to revolt, when Cyrenius came to take an account of the estates of the Jews." As Josephus noted, Caesar’s 5% tax was to be on estates/inheritances of all but the poor and near relatives, not on the people.

The census attached to this taxation was also noted by Luke: "Judas of Galilee rose up in the days of the census, and drew away some people after him, he too perished, and all those who followed him were scattered." (Acts 5:37) This shows that Luke was speaking of the same census/taxation as Josephus, the 6 CE census/taxation conducted under Cyrenius (P. Sulpicius Quirinius). A listing of the Governors of Syria from 10 BCE to 7 CE are as follows:

BCE 10-9 M. Titius

BCE 9-6 Gaius Sentius Saturninus

BCE 6-3 P. Quinctilius Varus

BCE 3-1 L. Calpurnius Piso

BCE 1-4 CE Gaius Julius Caesar

4-6 CE L. Volusius Saturninus

6-7 CE P. Sulpicius Quirinius

[markbg]

interesting views on the abomination of desolation , it is a mystry why people think of an event in 167 bc