UK troops 'filmed abusing Iraqis'

[__Kratos__]

The only thing this video has done is make it worse for any improvment in iraq , British relationships.

British troops never ought to be in Iraq , they will never solve the problem that Saddam solved by using brute force, The Iraqis hate each other and will never be a peacefull nation. Lets get out of there and leave them to it.

It's also given ideas on how to improve training to your forces in controling protesters and riots in the right way. Guess the Brits are as pro as you thought, billystevo.

[Uversa]

It's also given ideas on how to improve training to your forces in controling protesters and riots in the right way. Guess the Brits are as pro as you thought, billystevo.

is this just a means for you to boost your ego and feel better for winning your point and making childish digs at other people/nations?

Im not too sure

The worlds truly gone mad, the soldiers are out there and are doing thier job.

Like i said, the only other 2 options would be to shoot them on the spot, which you and others would undoubtedly make a fuss over, OR to pat them on thier bottoms and ask nicely not to throw rocks and grenades.

They used the best possible option.

They shouldnt be there in the first place, but they are, what do you expect them to do?

Edited February 15, 2006 by Uversa

[wunarmdscissor]

its actualy come to light that the story featured by the NOFTW , is not as it seems.

these soldiers were apparently under HEAVY attack at the time.

[<bleeding_heart>]

The soilders appear to be acting as a "snatcher squad" that is they remove the main trouble causers from a violent crowd (this is standard practice in every western police forces response to violent protest).

If a command to stay down was issued and ignored. Hitting them in the legs until they stay down is acceptable and again many police forces take this stance it is after all preferable to shooting them. (Of course no matter how well you are trained hitting someone with a stick still looks like hitting someone with a stick.)

If the protestors are refusing to comply and your only option is to throw your head in that is also acceptable (although it is frowned upon and doesnt look nice).

Filming it for "fun" is illegal no matter what.

Giving a running comentary making you sound like a t**t is sadly not.

Going too far and giving a beating for the sake of giving beating is illegal (and thats a judement call a court will have to make).

This isnt as clear cut as the Americans scum stripping captives naked and putting a dog collar on and taking pictures or as the British scum who forced captives to simulate sex acts on each other and took pictures.

If only everything was as black and white as it is in the minds of the the rapid anti-war/pro-war groups.

[KingTomis]

Seeing as how the mob of people were pelting the British troops with stones and homemade explosive devices, those people are damn lucky they all weren't shot down.

So what, a few kids got the beating of their lives are going to remember it. I've been hit for far less by my father and know it has made me a better man. Naughty kids need to learn not to throw stones/bombs. It's wrong. Something the majority of people in the Middle East are clearly lacking, a sense of right and wrong, or at least their views on it are clearly ****ed up.

That being said, the guy commenting on it is clearly messed up in the head. In fact, the commentary is so messed up I wouldn't be surprised if it was added to make the video clip seem far worse than it was by whoever got their hands on the clip.

[wunarmdscissor]

British scum who forced captives to simulate sex acts on each other and took pictures.

theyre fake are they not?

[__Kratos__]

theyre fake are they not?

Yeah, they were.

This new video though... is 95% real as says MoD.

[baastetnoir]

-------------------------------------------------------------------

It could be me watching way to much NCIS, but can't they take the facial structure of the soldiers in the video and match it with the military ID database?

Me thinks NCIS is a "couple" of light years ahead of reality ...lol

it would be really nice if all the gadgets NCIS and CSI and 24 and Numbers, really existed or worked that well...

[<bleeding_heart>]

theyre fake are they not?

Yeah, they were.

This new video though... is 95% real as says MoD.

No I was talking about the court-martialed soilders not the Daily Mirror TA crap. If those pictures turned out to be fake I apologise.

[__Kratos__]

Update: Video fallout hits UK Iraq troops

British forces are facing problems in southern Iraq as the fallout continues over footage of soldiers apparently beating Iraqis.

A second regional council has now ended all co-operation with the British Army.

British military police have started interviewing four Iraqi youths about the video, taken during a demonstration in Amara, southern Iraq, two years ago.

In a speech, Defence Secretary John Reid is to call for people to be "slow to condemn our troops".

Mr Reid wants the difficult context of operating in an extremely hostile environment to be taken into account.

But with Maysan council joining its counterpart in Basra in registering a protest over the footage, most of British-controlled Iraq is now not co-operating.

All contacts with UK military and civilian authorities in Maysan have been suspended and the council has demanded the release of all the detainees from the province being held by the coalition.

The council in Basra, which has already frozen ties, has now warned its employees they will be fired if they have any involvement with the British forces.

Both councils are also demanding an immediate handover of powers from the British.

Military officials are hoping a speedy and thorough investigation into the events at Amara will help defuse tensions.

Officers have spoken to four alleged victims and visited the area where it is claimed the incident took place.

Proportion call

The video, released by the News of the World, shows soldiers apparently kicking and beating Iraqis, and was widely condemned.

Mr Reid has said that while the images were unacceptable, it was important to keep this in proportion. Out of nearly 100,000 troops going to Iraq, there have been only five sustainable allegations of the mistreatment of civilians, he added.

Three soldiers have been arrested in relation to the video, the Ministry of Defence said last week.

Cpl Martin Webster, of 1st Battalion The Light Infantry, was arrested on the day of publication, while a further two unnamed soldiers were arrested two days later.

The governor of Maysan told the BBC he intended to pursue the soldiers responsible for the apparent beatings through the British civil courts, if no criminal charges were brought by the UK authorities.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jeez, that sucks.

[PadawanOsswe]

Yeah, the guy filming it, sounds pretty much like an idiot.

I think that guy has seen to much combat or somthing because he sounds like he's lost his mind.

[PadawanOsswe]

its a wonder anyone wants to be in the army nowerdays.

its a dirty job, but someone has to man the post at the wall. be thankfull for your troops, for they allow you to sleep in peace.

[julianpenrod]

Julian Penrod

4 Fairfield Avenue

West Caldwell, New Jersey 07006

(973) 220-1601

julianpenrod@comcast.net

February 16, 2006

To all:

To a large degree, commentary on the subject of British soldiers beating a group of youths singled out from a demonstration, while one of the soldiers' number filmed from a rooftop, with mocking "narration", can be characterized as gratuitous "validation" of the solderis' acts, because of the nature of the situation.

Hurting Spirit opined, "We have NO IDEA, [sic] of the state of mind these people are in, yet we feel that we are able to cast judgement on their actions. Im [sic] not saying they are right for abusing the prisoners, im [sic] just saying, [sic] there is probably more then [sic] meets the eye."

RamboIII illiterately seconds that sentiment with, "definatley [sic]".

PadawanOsswe's offering was, "war is hell, it makes people do crazy stuff. no [sic] matter what nationality."

"They dont [sic] show what those iraqi's [sic] were doing before the british [sic] troops gave them a kicking", Anubi says, "in war people revert to animal instincts. it [sic] is natural. these [sic] soldiers are under constant threat of death [sic] they will; not go up to these people and say [sic] 'please stop throwing grenades at me' [sic], they will kick the sh** out of them [sic]. so [sic] would you, so would the media and politicians id they were put in the place of these soldiers."

Anubi also states, "you have no idea what these troops have to live with", and follows with "you want people to slap their hands and send them on their way, employ artists and humanitarians to do the job instead [sic]?..guess what [sic] they dont [sic] have what it takes to be soldiers [sic]."

Billystevo wonders what "cuased so much fuss", since "this was after they had been stoned and bombs thrown at them."

Psychic Spy applauds the British troops, asserting, "it's all about survival of the fittest. realeasing [sic] these fighters only lets them rejoin their group to fight against us again."

Bathory says, "meh [sic] having seen the video, these a**holes are lucky the brits [sic] didn't fire into the violent crowd to 'disperse' it..."

Uversa opines, "Whats sic] the big problem? Do you not understand whats going on over there? Its [sic] a war-zone. Rioters are throwing rocks and bombs at soliders [sic], soldiers catch a few a [sic] beat them up. Whats [sic] so outrageous about this?"

To a large extent, what can be considered the reliably NWO side of the issue insists that there's nothing wrong with the brutality the soldiers unleashed, since, when you're in fear of being attacked, it's natural to be violent, and, when you're in a war, you have a right to act destructively.

That's apparently the way the Muslims demonstrating over the Mohammed caricatures feel.

They have seen their countries colonized, infiltrated, destablized and subject to targeted assassinations for decades.

They have seen leaders they respected removed, and replaced with dutiful puppets of Wall Street, who evidently kept the public largely in a state of unnatural poverty, to avoid their rising up to restore the culture and rule that they wanted!

They have seen members of their number, the Palestinians, uprooted and denounced for trying to get their lands back.

They have seen an evidently psychotic American administration engineer an attack on the nation, to "justify" enshrining greed, self-interest and wholesale butchery as the guiding light of Columbia!

They have seen the United States engage in evident international criminality in Afghanistan and Iraq, stealing the countries from their people, raiding theie resources and reducing their societies to little more than bedlam!

They have seen members of their communities subjected to vicious treatment in Abu Ghraib and Guantanamop and any of a number of "black sites" in the former Soviet Union!

They have seen the Koran subjected to mistreatment, out of evident craven contempt for Muslims, as a whole!

And now they have seen the Prophet mocked viciously by an evidently Fascist-leaning rag, and the entire incident treated by so many as little more than the Muslims supposedly "getting their come-uppance"!

The fact of the matter is, the Muslims evidently do see themselves as being in a state of war! It seems the utmost in delusion not to realize it! They see themselves as the victims of utter and complete hate, their lives constantly being the plaything of ruthless and unprincipled Wall Street criminals, and carried out by their mindless armed thugs!

The CIA is the least agency involved in evidently fomenting perpetual destabilization in that part of the world, supplying arms to maintain inter-tribal feuds, supporting warlords, propping up apparent dictators like Reza Pahlavi, carrying out covert operations. And all largely to maintain a silent and secret cabal monopolizing the area’s oil. And don’t depict OPEC as having hamstrung American oil companies; their CEO’s didn’t dress in rags as a result of the oil clamp-downs! The leaders of the OPEC nations and the oil CEO’s are apparently all together against the “rank and file”! And the Muslim “rank and file” are apparently well aware of this vampirism of their resources and puppeteering of their society. They evidently see this as a war that has persisted for at least half a century!

What the defenders of Jyllands-Posten casually, and apparently even calculatedly, ignore is the fact that what happened there was apparently seen by Muslims as a last straw! It is not an example of “militant Islamism” denying freedom of speech; it’s not a case of Islamic immigrants wanting to impose sharia law on everyone, even residents of host countries who “politely” took them in. Do you think they are spread all over the map because they want to be? A lot of them have evidently left the Middle East because incessant CIA activities has made existence monstrous there! They want to force them out, so they can pull in their own army of compliant workers! The Muslims who emigrated to places like Denmark and Norway out of an appreciation for the economic opportunities there, the ones the evident proponents of the “clash of cultures” term “hypocritical” in denouncing Jyllands-Posten, are the canny, exploitive types, just exactly the ones who wouldn’t speak out against the government supporting their financial enterprises! The only ones who would speak out in anger are those who aren't getting anything now from the government that is apparently sponsoring Jyllands-Posten, the ones who are there only because the fled they butchery that CIA machinations have wrought in their home countries! The ones who are denouncing Jyllands-Posten are evidently not benefiting as much as their detractors on this board like to make out! They are no better financially than at home, except that there don’t seem as many CIA operations against them in Denmark! Until now, that is!

But what drives them in this backlash appears to be a sense of being victims in a half century or more long war, against an implacable foe, motivated by nothing other than money, and fueled by an utter and complete contempt for everyone without a lot of money!

And, when bathory, PadawanOsswe and Anubi take sides with the British soldiers beating up youths demonstrating their anger at their country apparently being stolen from them, they demonstrate the hypocrisy evidently so characteristic of the malignant agencies behind NWO’s evident attempted enslavement of earth! Because they can prate about the soldiers being “justified” in acting brutally because they were in a state of war, yet they, at the same time, denounce Muslims for their actions, even though those Muslims evidently also see themselves as embroiled in a condition of aggression! They can ghoulishly applaud the British troops beating unarmed youths, yet they can’t spare a moment’s sympathy for a culture evidently pushed to the brink by connivance and theft of resources and exploding from this ultimate indignity! Given that the British soldiers were eminently more powerfully armed than the demonstrators, indeed, their actions were all the more craven, since the Muslims demonstrating against the Mohammed cartoons do not seem to have the same degree of military might as the CIA, MI-5 and Mossad facilitated nations they see as having mistreated them! Hurting Spirit, billystevo, RamboIII, Anubi, PadawanOsswe do all eminently embody the evident malevolent spirit of the NWO! To see them, here or anywhere else, as anything other than malignantly devoted to the NWO’s depraved plans seems unwise in the extreme!

Julian Penrod

[Talon]

julianpenrod can't you just post like a normal person, rather than these over inflated essays which tend to completely exaggerate/completely lie about what other posts say.

For one example of the nonsense you post. One of our threads claimed I, Elfstone and others were 'fascist' advocates of the nWo..... despite the fact I don't even believe in it, let alone support it. Second if you ever really bothered to read another of my posts you'd realise I'm a socialist, you know, they guys Hitler sent on mass to the death camps.

Also most tripe you wrote was claiming I somewhere said all Muslims were terrorists and should be kicked out the country. As I replied to you that day but you never bother to get back to me, I've never once said anything about all Muslims being terrorists, let alone all of them being kicked out the country. I've said EXTREMISTS should be kicked out the country. If you for some reason believe extremists must equal all Muslims, then that says far more about yourself being a bigot that me.

God you even lied once and said 'Such a point seems to be evident in a reply by Talon in this thread' despite the fact I never posted in the thread once.

All that you come off is as rude, ill-mannered, rather self-inflated (I mean who posts 4 A4 pages long replies insulting fellow posters?), you out right lie about what they said, and what’s more you insult people left right and centre in you're posts.

Edit: And I wouldn't be surprised if you respond to this with another 4 pages of essay trying to prove I am nWo and an evil fascist, the content of which of course will be mainly fiction.

Edited March 3, 2006 by Talon

[Talon]

Here's a question Julian. I've been looking over you're posts and every single one of them is an essay. You don't have a single post which is under a thousand words long. Have you ever tried just talking to people? You know, on PM or in the site, just a few sentences at a time, have a evolving discussion and actually get to know them rather than just leap in with an essay which insults half the other posters and based completely on you're own pre-judgements and on posts that you clearly misinterpret. Seriously, there is more to this forum that this world affairs section, ever tried talking about video games, movies, or you're hobbies with other people and actually engage in getting to know people and make friends?

I mean dude, its up to you, I honestly don't care so long as you stop insulting me and writing me up as the big Satan on this site. Since you obviously don't like me, even though we haven't once had a conversation, I'm not asking you to make friends with me, but seriously try going to the non-politically motivated threads, have one sentence long replies and actually talk to the people you have all these negative thoughts about. I don't expect you to like everyone, but can't you at least develop a relationship with us before you start attacking us in you're "taking this forum waaaay to seriously" style posts.

[PadawanOsswe]

yeah, and if Julian is really a Journalist, can she show us her Journalist website?

also Julian, if I were you, ide stop posting all of my personal information on here. why are you posting your Phone number and Address? are you intentionally trying to attract a Psycho's Attention?

no offense, but like Talon said please post like a normal person.

[RedEyeJedi]

Funny how you guys criticise Julian's method of posting and complain about him misquoting you. Yet you have absolutely no comment about the points he actually makes. The fact is you can't, as he is shining a light through the smoke your opinions are clouded by.

In fact I seriously doubt you guys have even read all his comments.

We in the West need to take a SERIOUS look in the mirror. I don't even understand what it you guys who refuse to see this are fighting for. Are you fighting for the right to live in ignorance?? To maintain your bliss?

Edited March 3, 2006 by RedEyeJedi

[bathory]

Funny how you guys criticise Julian's method of posting and complain about him misquoting you. Yet you have absolutely no comment about the points he actually makes. The fact is you can't, as he is shining a light through the smoke your opinions are clouded by.

In fact I seriously doubt you guys have even read all his comments.

We in the West need to take a SERIOUS look in the mirror. I don't even understand what it you guys who refuse to see this are fighting for. Are you fighting for the right to live in ignorance?? To maintain your bliss?

i think its more that we got tired of him posting the exact same arguement over and over when after people have called him out on some of the stupid stuff he says, we wait for a reply maybe a month later that rephrases the argument and calls us names...

[__Kratos__]

Funny how you guys criticise Julian's method of posting and complain about him misquoting you. Yet you have absolutely no comment about the points he actually makes. The fact is you can't, as he is shining a light through the smoke your opinions are clouded by.

In fact I seriously doubt you guys have even read all his comments.

We in the West need to take a SERIOUS look in the mirror. I don't even understand what it you guys who refuse to see this are fighting for. Are you fighting for the right to live in ignorance?? To maintain your bliss?

Sadly, I have read Julian's comments and often reply. Just look back.

Yeah, but we're fighting for ignorance.

They have seen the United States engage in evident international criminality in Afghanistan and Iraq, stealing the countries from their people, raiding theie resources and reducing their societies to little more than bedlam!

Yeah, because Afganistan wasn't run by the Taliban or anything.

Edited March 3, 2006 by __Kratos__

[Talon]

Funny how you guys criticise Julian's method of posting and complain about him misquoting you. Yet you have absolutely no comment about the points he actually makes. The fact is you can't, as he is shining a light through the smoke your opinions are clouded by.

Why should we? I've tried debating with this guy before, but as I said he never comes back to reply to you. Instead he writes up another 2000 words on why you're wrong because you disagree with him and he's got all these quotes he's edited/misquoted to completely lie about what you actually said. And to finish it all he insults you like a bratty-teenager (if he is a columnist he's about News of the World level, as no professional paper would take someone that bias and that bad mannered) by claiming you're racist, fascist, etc etc etc Why should we deal with or respect an individual who's as childish as that?

If Hitler came onto the board Jedi and started posting chapters of Mien Kampf, I wouldn't bother replying individually to every little thing he said either. Do you know why? Not because I can't prove him wrong, because I can't be bothered wasting my time dealing with such utter garbage.

[PadawanOsswe]

Hurting Spirit, billystevo, RamboIII, Anubi, PadawanOsswe do all eminently embody the evident malevolent spirit of the NWO! To see them, here or anywhere else, as anything other than malignantly devoted to the NWO’s depraved plans seems unwise in the extreme!

actually my NWO membership was revoked cause I refused to pay membership fee's.

allthough I do miss the saturday golf at Bohemian Grove.....

ok...ok......I admit I am under the membership age of 18 so I have to join the NWO Scouts.

which is very dull BTW cause while the adults get to worship Moloch every year........we have to sit at the kiddie table.

Edited March 7, 2006 by PadawanOsswe

[billystevo]

The British army are trained to win, sometimes looking at their methods is not for the fainthearted. Having said that they do as the Goverment tells them , i dont think they want to be in Iraq but have a sense of honour to be the best troops.

If i was taking bets i think the average British soldier would rather be at home than fighting this stupid war, its not a war that threatens Britain, more of a war Tony Blair agreed to with his pal George.As a British citizen , i think Bush and Blair are more braindead than Homer Simpson.

[__Kratos__]

The British army are trained to win, sometimes looking at their methods is not for the fainthearted.

There is a time and place for everything. Dealing 42 blows to defenseless Iraqi teenagers that posed no threat at the time is niether the time nor the place.

[billystevo]

There is a time and place for everything. Dealing 42 blows to defenseless Iraqi teenagers that posed no threat at the time is niether the time nor the place.

Thats why the British Army are better than most , thay actually kill the enemy , but having said that they are the best at being supportive to the natives and actually care about their lives. if you attack the British you get hell , if you dont you get freindship.

[Astronema]

Why is the u.s taking oil from iraq if there fighting them?