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Kuahji

Why hasn't George Bush Been Impeached?

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Kuahji

If we assume for a minute that Bush did not lie, he still needed proof the weapons existed. So where is the proof? That is what scares me about the US just taking people & locking them up without trial... Where is the proof these people are guilty & if the people are guilty why aren't they on trial? If another country was holding Americans the way we are holding supposed "bad guys" we'd be having fits. It's just not right & it goes against what America stands for. All we are doing is trading our freedoms & beliefs for safety.

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et's daddy

If we assume for a minute that Bush did not lie, he still needed proof the weapons existed. So where is the proof?

tell ya what

you take 50,000 people and go to war with california

and while youre at it you search every inch for WMD's

let me know how that works out for you

you dont seem to understand the logistics here

they are fighting a war in a country the size of california

they are being shot at everyday

suicide bombers are running around

a warhead with WMD's in it is going to be the size of a TV

let me go hide 50 TV's somewhere in california, then you go in guns blazing and find them

let me know how you do

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joc

The man who served as the no. 2 official in Saddam Hussein's air force says Iraq moved weapons of mass destruction into Syria before the war by loading the weapons into civilian aircraft in which the passenger seats were removed.

Source

Now, please can we get on with our lives? :blink:

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Kuahji

tell ya what

you take 50,000 people and go to war with california

and while youre at it you search every inch for WMD's

let me know how that works out for you

you dont seem to understand the logistics here

they are fighting a war in a country the size of california

they are being shot at everyday

suicide bombers are running around

a warhead with WMD's in it is going to be the size of a TV

let me go hide 50 TV's somewhere in california, then you go in guns blazing and find them

let me know how you do

That's still not the point... We needed concrete evidence that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction "before" we invaded.

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Kuahji

The man who served as the no. 2 official in Saddam Hussein's air force says Iraq moved weapons of mass destruction into Syria before the war by loading the weapons into civilian aircraft in which the passenger seats were removed.

Source

Now, please can we get on with our lives? :blink:

Hmm... yeah ok then why did Bush already acknoledge there were no weapons of mass destruction & his evidence was based on erroneous information? http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/01/12/wmd.search/

"After Duelfer delivered his Iraq Survey Group's report to the Senate, Bush acknowledged that Iraq didn't have weapons of mass destruction at the time he ordered the invasion but said Saddam was "systematically gaming the system" and that the world is safer because he is no longer in power."

Plain & simple it's an illegal war. We didn't have the UN approval & we didn't have proof of weapons of mass destruction.

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et's daddy

That's still not the point... We needed concrete evidence that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction "before" we invaded.

so next time we wait for them to be used ?

and btw, they were used

you see the mass graves ?

how do you suppose those people died ? old age ?

:no:

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MID

Hmm... yeah ok then why did Bush already acknoledge there were no weapons of mass destruction & his evidence was based on erroneous information? http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/01/12/wmd.search/

"After Duelfer delivered his Iraq Survey Group's report to the Senate, Bush acknowledged that Iraq didn't have weapons of mass destruction at the time he ordered the invasion but said Saddam was "systematically gaming the system" and that the world is safer because he is no longer in power."

Plain & simple it's an illegal war. We didn't have the UN approval & we didn't have proof of weapons of mass destruction.

Well, Bush was correct. And I didn't even vote for him.

This Bush hating that goes on in this country, and the wildly skewed positions people take concerning war and legality and WMD and all of that is simply amazing.

Since when did the Unites States require U.N. approval to wage war? Never. War requires approval by the Congress of the United States, and oddly enough, Congress approved it.

Of course, we deal with the flaccid U.N to be nice about things, and in fact their resolution, which was violated repeatedly by Hussein, explicitly stated that military action would follow if he didn't comply. He didn't, so he was attacked. There was no proof of WMD necessary. He HAD WMD, an established fact. He used them against his own people! The U.N. Resolutions of course mandated that he cease all WMD programs, and allow continued inspections in order to assure that this nutcase didn't pose a threat to anyone else, which he frequently did not abide by...case closed.

So, we had a perfectly legitimate war, which we quickly won. We are now continuing to fight terrorists, which is in fact an "illegal" war in the respect that our enemy does not play by the rules of engagement. Therefore, these people we are fighting have no rights and no privileges under the articles of war, and really should be dealt with alot more ruthlessly than they have been.

We sit here and house prisoners in camps like Guantanamo, and you people talk about their rights and not giving them trials and all that. They're in a prison camp! They're not even legitimate members of a warring nation or army. They get no trials, they have no rights...and, they're being treated quite nicely, despite the fact that if we let all of them go, most of them would slit your throat in the typical, cowardly way of these yahoos.

You all talk about all these illegal things as if they actually existed. Illegal wiretaps where there haven't been any, for one. These people who wear masks, kill innocents and defenseless people, put it on TV for everyone to watch, stick bombs in public places, etc., are the enemy and the fact is this war will not end until we eliminate every single last one of these idiots from the face of the planet. You people don't seem to get the seriousness of the situation.

Of course, I suppose that people killing several thousand defenseless Americans right in New York city isn't enough to convince you...in fact, many of you accuse Bush of planning 9-11! How that idiotic notion...a notion that is borderline treasonous, came about is absolutely beyond all logic.

I also suppose watching these cowards hack the head from a defenseless, bound up, begging person on TV is just becoming old hat, eh?

Innocents die in war. They do. It's one of the terrible consequences of the action. However, the U.S. doesn't take a person into custody, stand around him with masks on, make him read a demand to stop attacking Americans or we'll cut off his head...and then do it while filming it for the nightly news. We simply kill them, efficiently and effectively, as soldiers are trained to do. When our soldiers do something stupid, they get punished for it. When the terrorists do something abhorrent and viscious, they're praised by their command.

Come on, get real.

You really ought to can this mis-guided passion, which is really all about Bush-hating, and examine the facts of the matter.

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Kuahji

As I already stated congress did approve force but heres the catch "only" if Bush could prove Saddam had weapons of mass destruction... It was clearly written the force was only approved upon proof of weapons of mass destruction.

You state "We sit here and house prisoners in camps like Guantanamo, and you people talk about their rights and not giving them trials and all that. They're in a prison camp! They're not even legitimate members of a warring nation or army. They get no trials, they have no rights...and, they're being treated quite nicely, despite the fact that if we let all of them go, most of them would slit your throat in the typical, cowardly way of these yahoos."

What ever happened to being innocent until being proven guilty? I'm not saying let them all go, but what I am saying is either put them on trial or let them go. If you have evidence the people are guilty then let them have a trial & if you have no evidence then why are we holding them?

You also state "Of course, I suppose that people killing several thousand defenseless Americans right in New York city isn't enough to convince you...in fact, many of you accuse Bush of planning 9-11! How that idiotic notion...a notion that is borderline treasonous, came about is absolutely beyond all logic.

I also suppose watching these cowards hack the head from a defenseless, bound up, begging person on TV is just becoming old hat, eh? "

First off I don't think Bush planned 9/11. I'm not for the terrorists & I don't condone their actions. All I'm saying is the people in Guantanamo either need to be tried or let go & the UN thinks the same way. I also realize Saddam used weapons on his own people, however if you look back in history the US funded Saddam to fight Iran... The point is we simply didn't have the UN approvel nor congress's approval. We really don't need UN approval, but the only reason we got away with this war is because of how strong the US is... Now the UN stated we need to close down Guantanamo, I suppose we'll just say screw the world again & we have every right to keep people in prison without a trial. Again I'm not for the terrorists & I think their actions are disgusting, but I'm also not for the clearly illegal actions of the US.

Edited by Kuahji

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et's daddy

All I'm saying is the people in Guantanamo either need to be tried or let go & the UN thinks the same way.

have you noticed that even thier own countries dont seem to be asking for us to release them ?

says alot about the scum we have down there

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Stellar

have you noticed that even thier own countries dont seem to be asking for us to release them ?

says alot about the scum we have down there

Or about whether they know.

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Lilly

No WMDs? Tell that to the Kurds.

Where are these WMDs now? They didn't just up and disappear into thin air.

Why hasn't Bush been impeached? Well, like him or not Pres. Bush hasn't done anything that qualifies him for impeachment.

Section 4. The President, Vice President and all civil officers of the United States, shall be removed from office on impeachment for, and conviction of, treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors.

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Kuahji

have you noticed that even thier own countries dont seem to be asking for us to release them ?

says alot about the scum we have down there

lol well I'm glad you know they are all guilty. Personally I'll hold my opinion until there are some trials. I mean there most likely are scumbags down there, but without a trial of some sort I don't see exactly how we can just keep holding people.

This is from wikipedia "Critics of U.S. detainment policies also question the propriety of using an offshore prison, and the unclear legal status of its detainees (neither prisoners of war, nor tried as common criminals). It is clear, however, that the U.S. kidnappings and treatment of prisoners violates the international law and United Nations Convention Against Torture, which also U.S. has ratified. Critics of protesting organizations argue that constitutional rights have never been afforded for prisoners of war or non-U.S. citizens, however they omit the protections guaranteed by international treaties, among other things, against torture. These treaties are the "Supreme Law of the Land" through the U.S. constitution and also cover the treatment of prisoners in black sites and exported and outsourced torture."

What's more disturbing is the fact people have been released with no charges pressed against them... The people were just sent home like nothing happened. Oh yeah & part of the prison was already shut down thanks to the Supreme Court (camp X-ray, the part still open is dubbed camp delta).

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Kuahji

No WMDs? Tell that to the Kurds.

Yeah but Bush's father attacked Iraq for that already & if I recall Saddam dismantled his weapons of mass destruction... Obiviously what Saddam did was dispicable & he should have been put in jail. However, that still doesn't prove Saddam had weapons at the time when George W. Bush invaded... I'm not saying Saddam doesn't deserve to be in jail, but that doesn't change the fact it was an illegal war.

Where are these WMDs now? They didn't just up and disappear into thin air.

Bush already admitted there were no weapons of mass destruction, I've already posted the link... I guess we have conflicting reports. But, that very well gives a shadow of doubt & proves we didn't have proof of weapons of mass destruction...

Edited by Kuahji

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et's daddy

lol well I'm glad you know they are all guilty. Personally I'll hold my opinion until there are some trials. I mean there most likely are scumbags down there, but without a trial of some sort I don't see exactly how we can just keep holding people.

This is from wikipedia "Critics of U.S. detainment policies also question the propriety of using an offshore prison, and the unclear legal status of its detainees (neither prisoners of war, nor tried as common criminals). It is clear, however, that the U.S. kidnappings and treatment of prisoners violates the international law and United Nations Convention Against Torture, which also U.S. has ratified. Critics of protesting organizations argue that constitutional rights have never been afforded for prisoners of war or non-U.S. citizens, however they omit the protections guaranteed by international treaties, among other things, against torture. These treaties are the "Supreme Law of the Land" through the U.S. constitution and also cover the treatment of prisoners in black sites and exported and outsourced torture."

What's more disturbing is the fact people have been released with no charges pressed against them... The people were just sent home like nothing happened. Oh yeah & part of the prison was already shut down thanks to the Supreme Court (camp X-ray, the part still open is dubbed camp delta).

gee no more talk about WMD's ?

have you seen the light, or have you given up ?

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Kuahji

gee no more talk about WMD's ?

have you seen the light, or have you given up ?

scroll up one post :P What more do you want? I've already pointed out that Bush clearly stated there were no weapons of mass destruction.

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et's daddy

Yeah but Bush's father attacked Iraq for that already

you dont know history do you ?

we attacked Saddams forces back then to push them out of Kuwait

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Kuahji

you dont know history do you ?

we attacked Saddams forces back then to push them out of Kuwait

It's kool attack me personally if it makes you feel better. It doesn't change the fact we really didn't have the proof that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction when we invaded the second time. Iraq invaded Kuiwat illegally & we invaded Iraq illegally the second time around. If we would have had the proof, the president wouldn't of said there wasn't any weapons of mass destruction...

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et's daddy

it's not that he didnt have any

just none have been found

big difference

and when you make such an error as not knowing we went to save Kuwait i will correct you

it wasnt an attack :tu:

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Kuahji

it's not that he didnt have any

just none have been found

big difference

He very well may have had weapons but that's not my point. The point is we didn't have the proof at the time we invaded... It was clear by the UN vote we didn't have the evidence & again Bush even stated Saddam didn't have the weapons of mass destruction. Down the line we may very well find out that Saddam did have the weapons, but the fact remains we didn't have the proof when we invaded which was clearly required by congess before Bush got approval to use force. Hence it was not only an internationally illegal war by UN standards, it was also illegal by American law. The bottom line, Bush needs to be impeached for his actions.

Edited by Kuahji

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et's daddy

The bottom line, Bush needs to be impeached for his actions.

ya know what ?

let's solve the problem

move out :D

go try living in Iran or something :w00t:

see if that suits you better

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Kuahji

lol why would I want to move out of America? I love America & I am extremely glad I'm a citizen of the country. However, that doesn't mean I have to agree with everything the country does. To be honest I'm very patriotic. I just think it's dumb not to admit mistakes. Every country makes mistakes... I really don't see America admitting to too many of them. Have I somehow lost the right to voice my opinion that I need to move out of the country? :P

Edited by Kuahji

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joc

You have a right to voice your opinion. I have a right to voice mine. My opinion is that your hatred of Bush is being fueled by the equaled hatred of the main-stream media. My opinion is that you are short-sighted, not that smart, and being pulled around by your nose by the Democrat talking points of the day.

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Lilly

A President can not be impeached just because some citizens don't like/agree wit his actions. The Constitution is specific, A President must be convicted of, treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors. Even when President Clinton told a lie to a Grand Jury (granted it was ridiculous to even ask about a sexual laison) that isn't a crime even close to fitting the criteria for impeachment.

Now, Congress did ok military action. Some will say they were mislead, and that may be a somewhat valid argument. But remember, and this is important...All the intelligence indicated that Saddam was still in possession of the WMDs. Should we have invaded? Well, hindsight is 20/20, and knowing what we know now, I certainly wouldn't advocate it.

History will probably have to be the judge of this one, I honestly don't know. I just hope that Iraq will finally become stable, that all hell doesn't break loose, the mere idea of WWIII scares the socks off of me. If one thinks Bush et al are *bad*, take a long hard look at the Islamic extremists and what their vision for the world is.

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Unlimited

lol why would I want to move out of America? I love America & I am extremely glad I'm a citizen of the country. However, that doesn't mean I have to agree with everything the country does. To be honest I'm very patriotic. I just think it's dumb not to admit mistakes. Every country makes mistakes... I really don't see America admitting to too many of them. Have I somehow lost the right to voice my opinion that I need to move out of the country? :P

you should think about it? why do you keep saying the war was illegal? congress empowered the president...you should take that howard dean sticker off your bumper and grow up .what war was ever " Legal"... :ph34r:

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MID

You state "We sit here and house prisoners in camps like Guantanamo, and you people talk about their rights and not giving them trials and all that. They're in a prison camp! They're not even legitimate members of a warring nation or army. They get no trials, they have no rights...and, they're being treated quite nicely, despite the fact that if we let all of them go, most of them would slit your throat in the typical, cowardly way of these yahoos."

What ever happened to being innocent until being proven guilty? I'm not saying let them all go, but what I am saying is either put them on trial or let them go. If you have evidence the people are guilty then let them have a trial & if you have no evidence then why are we holding them?

Innocent until proven guilty is a doctrine of the American criminal justice system. That does not apply to foreign combatants, and especially not toward those combatants who are terrorists, belonging to no organized army, and committing heinous acts against the defenseless. They have no rights to trials under the American justice system. Nor do they even have the right to protections under the Geneva Conventions, which apply to legitimate members of combatant armies associated with other governments.

We've put these people in prison camp, where they are being cared for humanely...which is alot more than they're entitled to, and alot more than they would do if they captured some of our soldiers!

Just what do you think would happen then? Yea, you guessed it: they'd parade them on TV, and then brutally murder them on film.

You need to understand the realities of this situation. There is no innocent until proven anything. These people have no rights. We simply elect to treat them, humanely, because that's what America does.

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