Could America be defeated?

[.JJ.]

I was debating this with someone who's kinda off the wall. This guy is very gung-ho for the war on terrorism and for pre-emptive strikes on nations that support terrorists. He claims if we do not do this that armies of millions of terrorists will invade the continental US and totally defeat us. I totally disagreed for the following reasons.

1. We are VERY isolated from the rest of the world. Any invading force would have to travel many thousands of miles to get to us. The only nation to ever successfully invade our mainland was Great Britain, and keep in mind that they had the world's best navy at the time. Not even the Japanese were able to come close to invading our mainland during WW2. An invading force would have to travel far over land or sea, which they would be picked up on radar and destroyed by our Air Force and Navy.

2. We have the right to bear arms. If invaders were actually able to reach our borders and inflict damage on our military, we have a lot of private citizens who own guns and know how to use them. I would think the invaders would face an insurgency here that would make the one in Iraq look like child's play due to the number of guns we have here. Every redneck around with a deer rifle would be out there inflicting casualties on the invaders.

3. We will never be defeated for the same reason Napoleon and Hitler never defeated Russia, we have very cruel winters. I think if our military really got pinned down, and if they could hold out until winter and pull back into Wisconsin, Minnesota, or North Dakota for a final defense, we would win out. I could see invaders freezing to death and starving in great numbers just like Hitler's 6th Army did at Leningrad/Stalingrad if they had to fight in or around Minneapolis in winter.

Anyway, those are my thoughts.

[Mr. 420]

all ur base are belong to U.S.

[rose_ashes]

^...sentences might help.

anyways, i agree with you. if someone were to invade america, it would litterally need to be four or five of the bigger countries in the world, such as those from the UN. we're like the dad of the world. the children (other countries) get into squabbles and sometimes we end up having to put our foot down, but they always listen to us because they know better than to go against us.

[Raptor]

Anyone can be defeated. All it takes is a single group of people to launch a nuclear missile.

[Thanato]

"cruel winters" lol

Anywho the only way for the States to be invaded is through Mexico or Canada.

And i dont think the Northern united State's winters are bad enough to cause thousands of soldiers to freeze to death, maybe if you retreated up into Canada that might happen.

~Thanato

[two_cut]

who the hell said they'd attack from the outside? they will probobly sabotage you guys from

the inside to cripple you, then they'll launch an attack.America has been p*ssing off minorities such as muslims, former commonwealth countries,jews,blacks,communists,and native americans and the list doesn't end there. so its no suprise that you guys will probably get attacked

[Super Pancake]

^ Yes that is the best way, A small militia with ties to the Military Generals in the U.S. stage a coup d'état. and have the generals put troops all over the U.S. and turn it into a military state

But I don't see any muslims, jews, blacks, latinos, communist or native americans ever having the money or power to do that. Maybe far right wing extremist white christians can.

[two_cut]

But I don't see any muslims, jews, blacks, latinos, communist or native americans ever having the money or power to do that. Maybe far right wing extremist white christians can.

its the americans fault they dont have that.LOL

[Rykster]

millions of terrorists will invade

I don't believe we will ever face that sort of invasion from today's terrorists. I think we could be crippled by a few dozen well placed terrorists with even low yeild atomic weapons. Not a likely to succeed, but more of a scenario I could see them using. On the other hand, if we managed to anger Russia and China enough that they joined the Middle East in an invasion of the US, we would be in for one helluva fight. While I don't seriously think that this would happen, I mention it here as a possible scenario. One advantage such an attack would have on us is while we could send nuclear weapons to their countries, I think we would be very reticent about using those weapons against them here on American soil.

we have a lot of private citizens who own guns and know how to use them. I would think the invaders would face an insurgency here that would make the one in Iraq look like child's play due to the number of guns we have here.

The insurgencies in Iraq have rocket launchers and mortars as well as rifles and colt 45s. They are not faring terribly well against the overwhelming US forces. Why is it always a redneck in a pickup truck? I think the criminals in any inner city would be more dangerous to the invaders. That is if they chose to fight. They are better armed and accustomed to using their weapons against human tragets as opposed to shooting game.

we have very cruel winters

They're not that cruel. Of course for someone from the Middle East, it might be a factor, but I don't think it's an insurmountable problem. They are used to extreme climates. Winters are just the other extreme.

[AdNauseamSuiGeneris]

1. We are VERY isolated from the rest of the world. Any invading force would have to travel many thousands of miles to get to us. The only nation to ever successfully invade our mainland was Great Britain, and keep in mind that they had the world's best navy at the time. Not even the Japanese were able to come close to invading our mainland during WW2. An invading force would have to travel far over land or sea, which they would be picked up on radar and destroyed by our Air Force and Navy.

2. We have the right to bear arms. If invaders were actually able to reach our borders and inflict damage on our military, we have a lot of private citizens who own guns and know how to use them. I would think the invaders would face an insurgency here that would make the one in Iraq look like child's play due to the number of guns we have here. Every redneck around with a deer rifle would be out there inflicting casualties on the invaders.

3. We will never be defeated for the same reason Napoleon and Hitler never defeated Russia, we have very cruel winters. I think if our military really got pinned down, and if they could hold out until winter and pull back into Wisconsin, Minnesota, or North Dakota for a final defense, we would win out. I could see invaders freezing to death and starving in great numbers just like Hitler's 6th Army did at Leningrad/Stalingrad if they had to fight in or around Minneapolis in winter.

Anyway, those are my thoughts.

Ok as for number one. The Japenese could have invaded our mainland if they had so chosen to. The only problem they faced was supplies. They probably could have gotten as far as Ohio before any organized resistance met them, but then what? It would be months before their supply lines caught up to them and then what?

Number 2, there are a large amount of gun owners in every state, and we don't just own deer rifles, for example, I own an ar-15, a m1 garand, m1carbine, ak-47 semi-auto (legal version) 3 hunting rifles, an 1877 lever action Winchester "Indian Killer," .44 revolver, a 9mm beretta, another beretta that has interchangable barrels for .22, .44. .50, 9mm, it was my dads spec ops pistol from Vietnam, as well as a Luger. And my personal favorite, the M1A Scout Squad Rifle. I live on Long Island, I'm no where near the redneck states, and if you want to talk about stereotypes, it's a bad one that only rednecks have firearms and know how to shoot them. By the way, my list goes on, and on.

Why on Earth would anyone want to invade North Dakota or Wisconsin?

[AdNauseamSuiGeneris]

who the hell said they'd attack from the outside? they will probobly sabotage you guys from

the inside to cripple you, then they'll launch an attack.America has been p*ssing off minorities such as muslims, former commonwealth countries,jews,blacks,communists,and native americans and the list doesn't end there. so its no suprise that you guys will probably get attacked

Yeah I can picture that, lmao, an uber-1337 alliance of Africans, disenfranchised Communists from all around the world, united with the Native Americans of this counrty, and financed by ISrael. Yeah, no suprise there...

[XNavyGunner]

Might be interesting to see what idiots would try. Especially here in Colorado where it seems like everyone has a gun.

[et's daddy]

Anyone can be defeated. All it takes is a single group of people to launch a nuclear missile.

would take much more then a nuclear missile to defeat the US

it would be very bad yes, but 1 would hardly defeat us

[Celumnaz]

It'd be hard, but nothing's impossible.

I don't think an invasion by itself would work. But combined with natural disasters, an insurgency, and a few well placed nukes we'd be hurting pretty bad for a couple decades.

Economy collapse? We'd switch to barter or something, the people will survive and rebuild. We didn't have the systems we do now in 1776. We didn't have them in the Wild Wild West era. Cities did fine. People made it somehow. We somehow worked our way out of the "Great Depression" and we'll work our way out of whatever economic "collapse" happens. Yeah bankers and lawyers and stockmen might jump out a window. One nice thing about having a 70 year old mother is you get to learn about a poor mexican cotton picker's family through those times. I'm not worried about it. Bomb all our financial centers for all I care. I know how to fish.

I'm more worried about Socialism as National Policy, Hedonism as National Pasttime. That will do more to make sure we become the fading rome than anything else out there. Rotted from the inside by our own citizens.

But yeah... think the insurgency in Iraq is bad, try us. It would Require wholesale bombing of complete cities... like... all of them.

Well I say that... maybe get an electoral map and look at the counties in Blue. Can pretty much count on them having a white flag factory and lots of volunteers for whatever nation(s) come in with those intentions.

[Ciraxis]

I think if war hit our soil, every american that loves his/her country would fight, including the police/military. i know that i would pick up my guns

[NME_locus]

its the americans fault they dont have that.LOL

Pare 'two cut'....... before you speak and take a jabb at the US. As I recall, Spain ruled Philipines for nearly hundreds years treating you as an unequal.. Thanks to the United States for going to war to free the Phillipines. If not for the US, Phillipines would be a 3rd world country. Once US gained control and made Philipines the most asian envied country and you guys thrived as US gave you independence.

Our land can not be breached, maybe by nuclear weapons yes.... but, anyone who understands the ballastics of nuclear weapons knows that doing so will kill off most of the earth including themselves.

Think about the era of the cuban Missiles crisis. Russia'a Tsars bomba is 110 megaton yield, which is the equivelant to the explosion that killed of the dinosaurs. So, what's winning if we all die?

[NME_locus]

Might be interesting to see what idiots would try. Especially here in Colorado where it seems like everyone has a gun.

Sames with most of the US. I believe in Arizona, anyone can carry a handgun on their hip without being registered.

In Texas, we can carry our weapons while grocery shopping.

[Rykster]

The 10 km wide asteroid that is blamed for the KT extinctions released the eqivilant of 100 million megatons of TNT. Source

I'm not trying to argue, just trying to be accurate. That is a big difference in energy.

[.AKUMA.]

off course america can be defeated any country can! anyone who says they cant are just plain ignorant

[StalingradK]

Ok as for number one. The Japenese could have invaded our mainland if they had so chosen to. The only problem they faced was supplies. They probably could have gotten as far as Ohio before any organized resistance met them, but then what? It would be months before their supply lines caught up to them and then what?

Um... no, the Japanese had a terrible army, the only reason they could defend an island, is because they never fell back, and blew them selves up along with enemy tanks and troops if they go too close.

Japanese tanks were horrible, they were post-ww1 models.

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Anyone who actually does make an aggressive advance on US borders will get a missle shoved up where the sun don't shine, and the country where he's from will pay the most. Sorry to say, but it's true.

Edited February 14, 2006 by StalingradK

[Ciraxis]

i'll second stalingradk on that, the jap tanks could be taken out with a well place rifle shot. The problem with japan, I think, was that they thought themselves better than everyone else, they thought they were on a higher level and could not be defeated. This in turn lead them to make horrible and stupid plans for war.

I've read up on WW2 my whole life, and from what i've seen japan was doomed anyways, they spread themselves to far and thin, too many fronts, much like the krauts in the western campaign. ok, i'm rambling now, but no one ever talks about Ww2 on here so i never get a chance. oh well.

[Rykster]

In the book,"Sum of All Fears,"(not the movie, it was terrible)

The neo-nazis tried to get the US and Russia to fight. It was an interesting strategy. Whereas Hitler tried to take on the US and Russia, this scenario would have us do it to ourselves.

[Talon]

We will never be defeated for the same reason Napoleon and Hitler never defeated Russia, we have very cruel winters.

Indeed, there is old saying in Europe; That Russia has two unbeatable Generals - December and January.

[NME_locus]

The 10 km wide asteroid that is blamed for the KT extinctions released the eqivilant of 100 million megatons of TNT. Source

I'm not trying to argue, just trying to be accurate. That is a big difference in energy.

Thanks, but I don't think that's accurate and not trying to argue either. Weight is different than Yield.

Example: Atomic bombs, of the type used in the attacks on Japan, weighed in the range from 10 to 100 kilograms, and had yields in the region of 15 to 20 kilotons.

Okay, so now can accurately calculate TNT into Plutonium or Uranium porportions during fission?

An atomic bomb must contain a critical mass of fissile material, that is, material that can undergo fission.

Two types of fissile material have been used in atomic bombs up to the present type:

Uranium-235 (235U), the rare isotope of uranium, critical mass about 5 kg

Plutonium, some combination of 239Pu and 240Pu, critical mass about 16 kg.

Fission: The splitting of the nucleus of an element into fragments. Heavy elements such as uranium or plutonium release energy when fissioned.

Yields today are usually given in megatons, the equivalent of one million tons of TNT. The largest bomb ever exploded had a yield of 50 megatons; it was a test carried out by the Soviet Union. Today most nuclear weapons have yields of around 1 megaton. That is because there is relatively more destructive power in smaller bombs: e.g. more destruction caused by 10 bombs of one megaton than by one bomb of 10 megatons.

source:

[Rykster]

Well, I disagree, but we are allowed that!