Imaginary Friend Posted February 21, 2006 #26 Share Posted February 21, 2006 So much for freedom of speech in Europe! I wonder if those that thought this law valid realized they assumed the same platform as the fascists that enacted the Holocaust!? I'm glad they chose to do their bit in prison. Now they stand in testament that while Hitler and his sick minions may be dust, (or nearly so), the spirit , the mentality, that gave life to the cause, lived on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
__Kratos__ Posted February 21, 2006 #27 Share Posted February 21, 2006 i getting tired of everytime somebody doesn't like something someone said they call it ignorant Review: stalin had alot more people killed then hitler, the reasons do not matter the numbers are still greater. Both are horrible. the jews need to stop trying to make people feel guilty, they should feel guilty about not fighting back since they would die anyway. most jews totally denied human instinct I agree on the guilt but not the fighting back or denying human instinct. They did try and fight back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffybunny Posted February 21, 2006 #28 Share Posted February 21, 2006 you just cannot whitewash what people say as freedom of speech in certain parts of europe after what happened in the war, maybe freedom of a speech is the ideal ideology you can indulge in from the comfort of your amchairs so far away from events , but these events are still too raw for too many here still. Who gets to decide what people have the freedom to say? What if you disiagree with their decision? can they outlaw that as well? Talk about a slippery slope... As I said in other threads; freedom of speech is a fundemental human right. It may cut both ways and allow people to say things that you disagree with, but you have the freedom to respond in kind. Raw or not, freedom of speech is not something that can be altered in order to suit a persons opinion at a given time. If you start to give up your freedom of speech about this topic now, what is the next thought that will be outlawed? What after that? No thanks; I take my freedom of speech as intact as I can get it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnuKabal Posted February 21, 2006 #29 Share Posted February 21, 2006 They did try and fight back. The majority didn't fight back, and many were sold out hoping to be pardoned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anubi Posted February 21, 2006 #30 Share Posted February 21, 2006 (edited) you think thats why people go out and fight ?, for free speech.. they go because they are told to, they fight to survive or be killed . you think there must be thousands of ideologist soldiers all running out to battle because they think that will give somebody the right to say what he thinks somewhere in the world. That is what i imagine totally, lets all jump over this parapet under enemy fire to give some fool i dont know an opinion . This is what politicians tell you they fight for .If you want to say millions died for it than say thats the propoganda told the people its what they died for, but it wasn't their choice. Edited February 21, 2006 by Anubi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffybunny Posted February 21, 2006 #31 Share Posted February 21, 2006 (edited) Anubi, have you ever served in the military? gone to war? Are you familiar what soldiers give an oath to when the join the military? Perhaps if you did you would realize what soldiers choose to fight for. You are mistaken in this case. Edited February 21, 2006 by Fluffybunny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billystevo Posted February 21, 2006 #32 Share Posted February 21, 2006 I don't know a lot about this man, but getting locked up for denying the Holocaust is a bit extreme if he had no part in killing anyone. Lots of people don't accept historical facts, some second world war heroics were made to look like Americans did them by film makers , when it was the British who did it.History rewritten for the masses . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorpius Posted February 21, 2006 #33 Share Posted February 21, 2006 He had pleaded guilty to the charge, based on a speech and interview he gave in Austria in 1989. He should have thought about that then than now. But I don't think 3 years is reasonable. Denying the holocaust is denying World War II and I'd consider that as a form of pure ignorance. Therefore it's understandable why some countries consider it as a crime, especially when you're makin' public speeches and interviews on it. Ignorance is bliss, but not ignorance like this. i getting tired of everytime somebody doesn't like something someone said they call it ignorant Some people use the word for the wrong reasons. I'm not sure how well you understand the word ignorant. So i'll enlighten you and other people, on what my full comprehension of the word ignorance is. My definition of Ignorance is as follows: It is having, writing, or saying pre-conceived ideas or opinions without fully researching or learning these ideas or opinions in question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PadawanOsswe Posted February 21, 2006 #34 Share Posted February 21, 2006 if one deny's a genocide that is 150% proven, they should be jailed. denying a piece of history that important to remember is appalling and holds humanity back! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imaginary Friend Posted February 21, 2006 #35 Share Posted February 21, 2006 The mistake many make in remembering the Holocaust , rather than researching it, is to imagine the Jews were the only victims. Consequently, as they are the most vocal advocates for remembering their plight as if they were the only ones, people believe. And filmmakers that seek to exploit the tragedy with the myopic attention to that lie, serve no good purpose to educate with their medium of communications, but rather propagate the lie and thereby make the Jews the victims they profess to be throughout their own history. Nothing could be further from the truth! While the number of Jews murdered is subject to debate; claimed as anywhere from 6 to 9 million or higher , depending upon the "source" one reads, there were others that were victims of this sick twisted intolerance under Hitlers regime. Ukrainians 5.5 - 7 million Jews (of all countries) 6 million + Russian POWs 3.3 million + Russian Civilians 2 million + Poles 3 million + Yugoslavians 1.5 million + Gypsies 200,000 - 500,000 Mentally/Physically Disabled 70,000- 250,000 Homosexuals Tens of thousands Spanish Republicans Tens of thousands Jehovah's Witnesses 2,500 - 5,000 Boy and Girl Scouts, Clergy, Communists, Czechs, Deportees, Greeks, Political Prisoners, Other POWs, Resistance Fighters, Serbs, Socialists, Trade Unionists, Others: Unknown Table assembled from figures quoted by Milton; Lukas 38-39, 232; Gilbert 824; Berenbaum 123; and Holocaust Internet information sites. Table Source Link. However to ask someone off the street the primary victim class of the Holocaust would render the usual answer; Jews! Consequently laws are made, like that mentioned in this article, that forbids people from not believing this tragic blight in history occurred, and all the while that law re-enforces the very spirit that compelled the Holocaust in the first place. It's tragic, however it is the way of it. For as they say those that do not learn from their history are condemned to repeat it. Case in point, this law and this, which is not the first nor shall it be the last, arrest in it's name. I remember George Orwell's book; "1984", and the "Thought Police". Laws like this that forbid free speech are effectively implying prohibition of free thought given voice. This is the new fascism and those that passed this law are the new terror. And that gives rise to the other question; What's next that shall implied forbidden in thought and manifest as law? This law does not assure freedom from history repeating itself. Rather it is an indicator that history is repeating itself. When one makes a law forbidding speech one makes the law to imply the unspoken implication that the thought that gave it voice is forbidden. This is the new evil in Europe. And this man is but one that will fall to it if it is not overturned! Disbelief does not make a victim. However jailing someone for not believing applies a wound that all of the European political construct should be ashamed, because this law in effect commands belief and in that way is reminiscent of the regime that manifest the Holocaust in the first place. Hitler would be proud he had such an impact on the future he would never live to see! And for that every European politician should be ashamed and then jailed in their own right, for manifesting 20th century fascism in his memory! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billystevo Posted February 21, 2006 #36 Share Posted February 21, 2006 I still dont understand why this man has been jailed, did he have anything to do with killing Jews? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamboIII Posted February 21, 2006 #37 Share Posted February 21, 2006 I don't know a lot about this man, but getting locked up for denying the Holocaust is a bit extreme if he had no part in killing anyone. Lots of people don't accept historical facts, some second world war heroics were made to look like Americans did them by film makers , when it was the British who did it.History rewritten for the masses . are you kidding me? if it werent for us americans you would still be fighting WWII, you really need to get over the fact that we are a strong country and accept that you rely on us in almost every aspect of the word Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamboIII Posted February 21, 2006 #38 Share Posted February 21, 2006 this is ridiculous, how can someone be jailed for this? that would never happen in america... i just want to know what will happen if they prove the holocaust did not happen and they still put this man to jail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
__Kratos__ Posted February 21, 2006 #39 Share Posted February 21, 2006 are you kidding me? if it werent for us americans you would still be fighting WWII, you really need to get over the fact that we are a strong country and accept that you rely on us in almost every aspect of the word ... this is ridiculous, how can someone be jailed for this? that would never happen in america... i just want to know what will happen if they prove the holocaust did not happen and they still put this man to jail. Because they have laws that makes it illegal to deny the holocaust. Completely ridiculous, I know... free speech being cut down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnuKabal Posted February 21, 2006 #40 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Ukrainians 5.5 - 7 million Jews (of all countries) 6 million + people hardly ever hear about the ukrainians, but i heard about this from some historians that live around me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellar Posted February 21, 2006 #41 Share Posted February 21, 2006 are you kidding me? if it werent for us americans you would still be fighting WWII As opposed to if it wasnt for Canada, the Brits, the Russians, pretty much any of the allies, you would be speaking german right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rahl Posted February 21, 2006 #42 Share Posted February 21, 2006 are you kidding me? if it werent for us americans you would still be fighting WWII, you really need to get over the fact that we are a strong country and accept that you rely on us in almost every aspect of the word you will get this thread closd too if you continue stupidity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamboIII Posted February 21, 2006 #43 Share Posted February 21, 2006 As opposed to if it wasnt for Canada, the Brits, the Russians, pretty much any of the allies, you would be speaking german right now. how do you figue that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
__Kratos__ Posted February 21, 2006 #44 Share Posted February 21, 2006 how do you figue that? You're going to give me a headache tonight... Without them fighting, who do you think would have won then? I'll give you a hint... it wouldn't have been the Allies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamboIII Posted February 21, 2006 #45 Share Posted February 21, 2006 You're going to give me a headache tonight... Without them fighting, who do you think would have won then? I'll give you a hint... it wouldn't have been the Allies. i think we could have pulled it off... come on man you are an American! anything is possible when you are under the red, white, and blue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billystevo Posted February 21, 2006 #46 Share Posted February 21, 2006 are you kidding me? if it werent for us americans you would still be fighting WWII, you really need to get over the fact that we are a strong country and accept that you rely on us in almost every aspect of the word No i don't think your a strong Country , i believe you have been brainwashed by your media into thinkinking you are, i think thats why most Countries don't like you for the arrogance you present to the world. This guy denied the Holocaust and got jailed ,American film producers ignored the facts and made out America won the second world war on its own.Lets jail American film makers for denying the truth . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurnSide Posted February 21, 2006 #47 Share Posted February 21, 2006 (edited) I've just had to remove several posts here for unsuitable remarks against the forum rules. I suggest you all take a breather before continuing, it would be a shame to have this topic closed on the account of a few patriots defending their countries in the wrong ways. This is not up for debate. Back on topic. Edited February 21, 2006 by BurnSide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imaginary Friend Posted February 21, 2006 #48 Share Posted February 21, 2006 are you kidding me? if it werent for us americans you would still be fighting WWII, you really need to get over the fact that we are a strong country and accept that you rely on us in almost every aspect of the word At the risk of being edited, allow me to communicate in a parlance you will understand; Do you even know why America entered WW2? The United States remained neutral during WW2 until the bombing of Pearl Harbor! However before that Nazi Germany was sinking American supply ships because the US was providing financial and military support to the Allied troops (England, France, China and Russia). With the attack on Pearl, by Japan, without a declaration of war or any warning that hostilities were being commenced against our Nation, most of our battle fleet stationed in Hawaii were destroyed! The day after that attack Roosevelt petitioned Congress in a formal declaration of war against Japan! It was unanimous save for one hold out, Janet Rankin (Republican) of Montana. This declaration did not petition to declare war against Italy or Germany. However, on December 10th, 1941 Germany and Italy declared war on the United States! (Research link ) It's naive to profess claims such as yours , because it is reminiscent of good old boys sitting around the bonfires talking trash about that which they know very little. To research before one speaks however, is the first step to being regarded as not only having something to say, but saying something worth listening to! Oh, and just as an aside. If you are so boldly proud to defend this country with your professions, you would do well to show her respect by capitalizing the A in the process! It denotes respect, even though your blatant ignorance of the war that took so many American lives, does not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billystevo Posted February 21, 2006 #49 Share Posted February 21, 2006 I dont post lies on here , is it not a fact that American film producers have changed history, why is this differant to a guy who is jailed for seeing history another way. Both deny what really happened. America won the war single handed , the holocaust never happened, which of these statements are true? Both are incorrect but America stays out of jail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
__Kratos__ Posted February 21, 2006 #50 Share Posted February 21, 2006 I dont post lies on here , is it not a fact that American film producers have changed history, why is this differant to a guy who is jailed for seeing history another way. Both deny what really happened. America won the war single handed , the holocaust never happened, which of these statements are true? Both are incorrect but America stays out of jail. Who said America won the war single handed?! I believe it was the Allied forces that won the war. America did help but didn't make a sweep over Germany in a magic chariot smashing the Nazis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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