Poll reveals 40pc of Muslims want sharia law

[RedEyeJedi]

Zephy is actually right, Talon, and I'm a Westerner. He is not calling you guys fascists, he is saying you are blind to the fascism creeping up on us. We have been manipulated for so long. The truth has been buried and is constantly being layered, with more and more lies.

I wonder, if you had final proof that the whole War On Terrorism was started as a false-flag operation as a pretext for war against the Middle-East, would you finally believe?

The lie is falling apart and pretty much on it's way to being blown out of the water. Check this out.

Edited February 25, 2006 by RedEyeJedi

[Talon]

Zephy is actually right, Talon, and I'm a Westerner.

Yes, but you also beleive in the nWo and illuminate and all conspiracy stuff which isn't mainstream. I was talking about everyone else.

[RedEyeJedi]

Yes, but you also beleive in the nWo and illuminate and all conspiracy stuff which isn't mainstream. I was talking about everyone else.

Watch the video.

What would your answer be to my question of conclusive proof?

[Talon]

What would your answer be to my question of conclusive proof?

Well it would prove Bush and Republicans are scum... but we already know they are scum since most capitalists are. It would not prove Europe (which the US is not a part of) is going Fourth Reich on us.

And as for the video sayings it's all a conspiracy, so what? There are tons of videos which say it wasn't a conspiracy theory. What makes the ones saying it was the government who organised 9/11 more reliable?

[RedEyeJedi]

Well it would prove Bush and Republicans are scum... but we already know they are scum since most capitalists are. It would not prove Europe (which the US is not a part of) is going Fourth Reich on us.

And as for the video sayings it's all a conspiracy, so what? There are tons of videos which say it wasn't a conspiracy theory. What makes the ones saying it was the government who organised 9/11 more reliable?

Just watch the video.

9/11 was an inside job - that doesn't necessarily mean the whole government was responsible. Corrupt elements were, who wanted this war in Middle-East. Declassified documents show notes planning to take Afghanistan and Iraq on September 11th!!

Bush expected the attacks.

Corrupt investigation/whitewash of 9/11. No serious pressure from the media in everything so far to date - shows complicity. Bias against Islam. Media controlled by a few cartels.

No story of any consequence you see in the news is the (whole) truth!

Edited February 25, 2006 by RedEyeJedi

[+joc]

But wait a minute....aren't you people always talking about what a moron Bush is? So, he makes a mistake in memory and suddenly he is Big Brother in the flesh.

Most likely, and yeah I'm giving the President full benefit of the doubt, he was watching the coverage of the plane hitting the first tower just before he went in...the news coverage was wall to wall and everyone remembers the tower with smoke pouring out of the top and then after that how many thousands of times did we all witness the planes flying into the buildings? It was non-stop...like Peter Jennings (whom I was watching) just couldn't believe what he was seeing...almost like , 'if I play it one more time, maybe it won't happen'.

How many times? So, I think it is quite likely, memory being what it is, that Bush 'remembered' seeing the plane hit the tower...when actually he didn't. Why does a misspeak have to be a lie?

[bathory]

duh because its bush that misspoke...he's an idiot when he misspeaks, but it also reveals he's part of a worldwide conspiracy!

[Birmingham]

I might be a Bush hater from Bush #1, but I almost feel sorry for him when he is attacked by numbnuts like some of the above. First, no one saw the first plane crash into the North Tower on live TV. In fact there was only one video tape of the first crash. Taken by French videographers. Bush was in the school at the time of the second crash. So he did not see the crashes. But neither did 80% of the US population. Their memories are of the tapes of the crashes. Remember there were few people on the American west coast who had their TVs on at 7:00 in the morning, pacific time zone. But they will tell you of the incident, due to seeing the many replays. If these people want to nitpic, why don't they go back to the archives and see the inconsistencies in their own past postings.

Now excuse me. Having to defend Bush makes me feel a bit dirty and I need a shower.

[+joc]

I almost feel sorry for him when he is attacked by numbnuts like some of the above.

Just so you know....Bathory had his tongue way inside his cheek

[zephyr]

You know Zephyr, you're insane. You're brainwashed, you're racist, and you just want to feel hard-done to. I'm sick of hearing you're lies and exaggerations about what I've said, and about westerners in general. You're just wasting my time trying to reason with you since the only reply you're capable of coming back with is a more wordy version of 'Europe's fascist! The US is fascist! You're fascist! And Iran is the nicest country on Earth!"

At least for the case of rationality people on this site we can rely on the fact that most of the people here ARE from western societies, and know everything you say is just propaganda. You're fooling nobody but yourself.

Calling me names is not going to change anything about the facts, just proves your inability to argue intelligently, which is of course no surprise given the that your position is hard to defend. I haven't generalized about Westerners at all, just warning you about the manipulations that the fascists in the west are performing on naive people like you, you are the one who is full of stereotypes and generalizations about Iran, the ME and the Muslims. You are the lier here since I did not mention anything about the whole of Europe and the US being fascists and Iran being the nicest country. You're making up those lies as you go along because you lack the necessary reasoning to counter what I have said. You're not wasting your time reasoning, because your made-up nonsense is not reaoning at all.

Racists are people who want to send the junks produced by their societies to other people, bomb other people's countries and homes based on some hatred that is uniqually the result of ignorance and being manipulated by the fascists.

Again, your boring attempts to make yourself the spokesman for everyone, or at least the Westerners on this site are cheap and ineffective ways of proving yourself right to yourself only; talk about who is fooling who!

[zephyr]

Do you even know what fascism is?

Or are you just throwing words regardless of what they mean?

Fascism didn't grow out of democracies, it was enabled to took over democracies because those democracies allowed any idea to be expressed, and so the fascists where able to spread their ideas freely.

Fascism grew out of fear of Communism and reaction against democracy (virtually all the countries that have gone fascist either done so when communism was the most popular or when democracy was imposed on a non democratic society).

You obviously know nothing about the subject, which doesn't surprise me, since Iranians have no exprience with democracy to really judge it.

Excuse me? Palestinians are equal Israeli citizens in the State of Israel. They form 20% of our population, and have 11 MPs representitives out of a total of 120 Israeli MPs (that's about 10%).

Israel is the only place in the Middle East where Muslims can freely express their thoughts and feelings and not being prosecuted for doing so. As a matter of fact, one of those Palestinian MPs regulary speak against Israel, meets with leaders of countries which Israel is at war with, and still serves as an MP in our parliament.

Palestinians in the territories are prosecuted (yeah the legal term) not for expressing their ideas but for assisting suicide bombing. They usually get life sentences.

Stereotypes? You are the one stereotyping my country, demonizing it, and talk nonsensically which just shows your ignorance.

Zephyr, do yourself a favor, don't mention the Nazi thing anymore because you obviously know nothing about it and the way you use it shows you as a complete ignorant, not to say a bit anti-semitic (when you demonize Israel and deliberatly equate Jews to Nazis).

Is Talon a fascist? is thebarman a fascist? I think not. As a matter of fact, me and Talon have opposite world views. Talon isn't even pro-Israeli, he actually supports the Palestinian cause.

You label anyone who disagrees with your opressive world view as fascist when we all saw how much muslims regard freedom of speech.

The truth is that your country, along with the Arab world, is a lot closer to the old European fascist model than any Western state.

As for blaming my country of genocide - it's not only absurd and down right stupid, it's also incredibly easy to refute. What do you take us all for? idiots?

Anyone who has a remote knowledge of the casualties in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict knows it doesn't get close to genocidal numbers. Actually in the last year alone more Palestinians died from inner Palestinian terrorism than from actions taken by the Israeli military.

In total, since the outbreak of the current violence in 2000, about three thousand Palestinians died and one thousand Israelis were killed.

That's in 6 years of conflict.

There are 3.8 million Palestinians in the territories. 3,000 deads are 0.0007% of the population - it must be the least effective genocide ever carried out in world history .

And being that we Israelis have top weaponry (as many criticisers of Israel like to remind us all), it's quite illogical that if we were attempting to genocide anyone we would have failed so badly, especially when Muslims in Sudan proved how easy it is to get away with genocide using only horses and guns.

Go and spread your poisonous blood libels somewhere else.

Yes Zephyr, that's it. You stick to your own bubble world, where Israel is satan and Iran is a saint, where muslims are all victimized by those evil westerners and europe is ran by fascists .

You do that, and ignore the rest of us which live in the real world .

If fascism grew out of a fear of communists, why did they go at the Jews then, and why are they going at the Muslims now? Don't tell me all the Jews and Muslims living in Europe were/are communists. Obviously, you are the one who either doesn't know what fascism is, or you know, but your agenda to cheerlead today's fascists does not let you speak fairly and justly; I think it is the second case which seems to be true as you, better than anybody else must know what fascism is and what it can do to innocent people based on their religion.

There you go again with your BS about me being an Iranian; you're only proving my point about not having a defendable position and the more you refer to my nationality, the easier you make my job. Just a reminder that Iran was a democratic country over a century ago when the Russian imperialists decided to bomb the Iranian parliament and massacre all the democrats and kill the new democracy; this was of course long before Israel even existed; so learn some facts about history and specifically the struggle of the Iranian people for democracy before you spit some more nonsense out.

I talk about whomever I please including the Nazis, and the more I talk and the less you are able to reason, the funnier it gets, because you resort to your old, and by now ridiculous methods of labeling people as 'anti-semetic'. And frankly, I don't care whether you agree or disagree with Talon. I regard as fascist anyone calling for wars and bombings of other people's homes, expelling the extremists in their own country to other countries, etc. It's not me who decides who is a fascist and who is not, people choose that for themselves and often display it on open forums like this.

Contrary to your narrow-minded generalizations, I do not regard myself as representing the whole of the Muslim world, or all the Iranians for that matter; I only speak for myself. If calling for peaceful and intelligent dialogue between different cultures for the purpose of peace is an "oppressive world view" according to you, then so be it; it doesn't have much effectiveness and meaning especially coming from someone with militaristic views, views which are re-enforced by aggressive avatars and signature, views that regard 3000 Palestinians and 1000 Israelis killed as something trivial.

Telling me to go somewhere else is no help either, you've got to come up with something more intelligent and less venomous to say, something that at least clears up your position with respect to today's fascists in Europe that you seem to be supporting when it comes to dealing with Muslims. You are stuck in a hypocritical position and the fact that I'm from Iran, is not going to change that, no matter how many times you resort to this kind of non-reason.

You are the one who doesn't live in the real world, you live in a world filled with militarism and hatred, a bubble world defined by propaganda and biased views. Fortunately, all the peace seeking people everywhere who are sick of this militarism and hatred are more awake and aware of the realities than you can imagine, and because of their just position, they are the ones who are going to burst the bubbles and prevail, making the world a safer and a better place for everyone; inshallah!

Zephy is actually right, Talon, and I'm a Westerner. He is not calling you guys fascists, he is saying you are blind to the fascism creeping up on us. We have been manipulated for so long.

I wish I weren't right, RedEye, and that fascism were totally a thing of the past, but unfortunately it isn't and the only hope is for people with open minds and open eyes to warn the more naive ones among us. One thing I know through experience though is that is it is very hard to blow reason into minds hardened by exposure to long-term propaganda, into people blinded by illusions that they, or others have created for themselves, very hard indeed, and I wish you lots and lots of luck in trying to do so.

[Sanjuro]

Zephyr is right about propoganda, now many peoples in US and even in europe thinks that all muslims are terrorists.

[__Kratos__]

Zephyr is right about propoganda, now many peoples in US and even in europe thinks that all muslims are terrorists.

Hmmm... your opinion or do you have something to back that up?

A lot of terrrorists are Muslim though.

[PLO]

i think that post just skirted on his point.

"Fascism didn't grow out of democracies, it was enabled to took over democracies because those democracies allowed any idea to be expressed, and so the fascists where able to spread their ideas freely."

so facism did grow out of democracy then. Erikl, Palestinian people are prosectued becuase your goverment wants to steal as much land from them as it can. You think they have legal precedent for annexing a good third of the Jordan Valley? You have a facist goverment, one in which you actively support, oh but wait, sorry, apparently jewish people are somehow incapable of being intolerant and authoritarion.

Edited February 26, 2006 by PLO

[RedEyeJedi]

I might be a Bush hater from Bush #1, but I almost feel sorry for him when he is attacked by numbnuts like some of the above. First, no one saw the first plane crash into the North Tower on live TV. In fact there was only one video tape of the first crash. Taken by French videographers. Bush was in the school at the time of the second crash. So he did not see the crashes. But neither did 80% of the US population. Their memories are of the tapes of the crashes. Remember there were few people on the American west coast who had their TVs on at 7:00 in the morning, pacific time zone. But they will tell you of the incident, due to seeing the many replays. If these people want to nitpic, why don't they go back to the archives and see the inconsistencies in their own past postings.

Now excuse me. Having to defend Bush makes me feel a bit dirty and I need a shower.

If Dubya got confused about what he saw, and when - why does he talk about what was going through his mind?

He was in his Limo on the way to the school when the first plane hit. Lets suppose he was in on 9/11, for just a second, if you guys can even bare to imagine that, even hypothetically. He could have seen the first crash from his Limo in a private link-up. If this is not the case how can he possibly talk about thinking that the first crash was the work of a 'really terrible pilot'???? The thought could have never entered his mind to think it was an accident. If you think he meant he heard about it in the Limo, then why the **** was he left sitting in the classroom after the second attack. If America was under attack from foreign terrorists, he would have been target #1 and secured by the Secret Service.

So NO, people - he did not misspeak - whichever way you look at it. Watch the press conference clip when he is asked about prior knowledge. He is LYING THROUGH HIS TEETH. If you can't see that, then you probably deserve to have your freedoms stripped away, one by one.

Good luck to you.

Edited February 26, 2006 by RedEyeJedi

[bathory]

look out or the shape shifting reptilians will get you

sorry but conspiracy theories should remain in the conspiracy theory section, with all the Elvis is still alive and Aliens are stealing my socks so i have odd pairs threads

[Erikl]

so facism did grow out of democracy then. Erikl, Palestinian people are prosectued becuase your goverment wants to steal as much land from them as it can. You think they have legal precedent for annexing a good third of the Jordan Valley? You have a facist goverment, one in which you actively support, oh but wait, sorry, apparently jewish people are somehow incapable of being intolerant and authoritarion.

Let's see on what you base your assumptions...

A. You claim my government's actions are land motivated.

You treat this claim as a fact, when it isn't so. My government's actions are motivated to stop terrorism and enable most Israelis to live in peace.

The Palestinians do not understand that if all terrorism would stop, my government will have no choices but to give them everything they want, mostly because of inner Israeli pressure.

You also claim my government porsecute Palestinians, ignoring the fact that 20% of Israelis are Palestinians who are equal citizens in a western democracy. The fact is that this poses a problem for you because then it takes the ground off any racist or fascist accusation towards my country - because for the Israelis, the conflict is obviously not race-related. It is survival-related.

B. My government has yet to annex the Jordan Valley. It is still considered a no-man's land. And you picked up a bad example - the Jordan Valley is scarcely populated with any Palestinians. As a matter of fact, most residents over there are Israelis.

C. You then call my government fascist, basing yourself on false, sel-wishing "facts" that you concluded yourself. You then carry on claiming that I believe Jews as a people can't be fascist (which is a racist saying btw, and also a lie because I have never said so), when as a matter of fact I myself have labelled on this site fascist groups in my country (such as the terrorist organization call "Kach").

And as for the stupid arguemnt that fascism originated in democracy - while in Zephyr's posts it was obvious he claim so out of lack of knowledge and brainwash, your claim is obviously a demagogoue one.

Fascism just as Communism didn't originate in democracy. Most fascist govenments were able to rise in democracy because democracy, as opposed to other form of governments, enable other voices to be heard, some of them anti-democratic.

Fascism rose out of fear of communism and fear of liberalism. Democracy itself didn't breed fascism, it just enabled fascist elements in societies to speak out and take power.

[PLO]

man you dont half talk some utter sh** about your country.

[Erikl]

man you dont half talk some utter sh** about your country.

I do but because you are so misinformed about my country your definition of true criticism against it would be demonization and non-legtimate alligations.

The simple truth is that my country isn't that different than most European countries, just in some serious security-related sh** since it's birth.

Also being that so much poison is already spilt on this board on my country, I'm thinking that any true criticism from my behalf would play to your hands with you and alike twisting it and using it in your lies.

[+joc]

The fact of the matter is, Israel is an ally of the United States of America. The fact of the matter is Iran is a terror exporting country and everyone knows it. The fact of the matter is that Terrorists hide behind Islam and use the sharia law as cover for their sins. Any upstanding, Muslim should be totally behind the United States and Israel in wiping Terrorism off the face of the Earth. You cannot be against God and for God at the same time. If you are a Muslim and you view America as the Great Satan...then damn it...stop producing oil and tell the infidels to go straight to hell! Otherwise, get a grip...join the war on terror and let the chips fall where they will.

Edited March 1, 2006 by joc

[RedEyeJedi]

The fact of the matter is, Israel is an ally of the United States of America. The fact of the matter is Iran is a terror exporting country and everyone knows it. The fact of the matter is that Terrorists hide behind Islam and use the sharia law as cover for their sins. Any upstanding, Muslim should be totally behind the United States and Israel in wiping Terrorism off the face of the Earth. You cannot be against God and for God at the same time. If you are a Muslim and you view America as the Great Satan...then damn it...stop producing oil and tell the infidels to go straight to hell! Otherwise, get a grip...join the war on terror and let the chips fall where they will.

Terrorism can never be defeated unless the causes are addressed and resolved. The US and Israel cannot 'wipe terrorism off the face of the Earth'. It is impossible! Unless the foreign policies that create terrorists are changed. Waging a war against another nation creates more terrorists. Killing innocent civilians in retaliation for the actions of an immoral few creates more terrorists.

The whole War on Terror is just a ruse. It is senseless rubbish!

Any upstanding Muslim would be for the sanctity of human life and not the bombing of innocents!