PLO Posted February 25, 2006 #1 Share Posted February 25, 2006 Christianity has basicaly failed, Islam hasnt. Why is this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobysnack Posted February 25, 2006 #2 Share Posted February 25, 2006 Christianity has basicaly failed, Islam hasnt. Why is this? In what ways has Christianity failed, and what do you mean by failed. And how has Islam done any better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bella-Angelique Posted February 25, 2006 #3 Share Posted February 25, 2006 The nations that have progressed the fastest in human rights in history have been Christian. First to build hospitols. First to build pubic schools for all citizens. First to let women vote. First in many ways. Christianity has not failed. History shows it has been a major success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+joc Posted February 25, 2006 #4 Share Posted February 25, 2006 Your basic premise is flawed. Christianity hasn't failed. How can it fail? How can Islam fail? How can a personal belief system fail? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquatus1 Posted February 25, 2006 #5 Share Posted February 25, 2006 PLO, perhaps you should expand on why you believe that Christianity has failed, and Islam has not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
__Kratos__ Posted February 25, 2006 #6 Share Posted February 25, 2006 The nations that have progressed the fastest in human rights in history have been Christian. First to build hospitols. First to build pubic schools for all citizens. First to let women vote. First in many ways. Christianity has not failed. History shows it has been a major success. That's only because the Christians didn't get their way at first. For schools to all, women voting and such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PLO Posted February 25, 2006 Author #7 Share Posted February 25, 2006 "The nations that have progressed the fastest in human rights in history have been Christian." actually, historicaly thats a load of bulls***. But im not talking about that. Christianity has failed becuase our western goverments do not beleive nor care for it anymore you do not get a "christian" goverment anymore save for the Vatican, but you do get a Muslim goverment becuase they actually belive in their religion, due to the fact they are suspicious of seperating religion and state. why is this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlimited Posted February 25, 2006 #8 Share Posted February 25, 2006 Christianity has basicaly failed, Islam hasnt. Why is this? If christianity failed you somehow im sorry..It hasnt failed me and 2 billion others Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bella-Angelique Posted February 25, 2006 #9 Share Posted February 25, 2006 "The nations that have progressed the fastest in human rights in history have been Christian." actually, historicaly thats a load of bulls***. But im not talking about that. Christianity has failed becuase our western goverments do not beleive nor care for it anymore you do not get a "christian" goverment anymore save for the Vatican, but you do get a Muslim goverment becuase they actually belive in their religion, due to the fact they are suspicious of seperating religion and state. why is this? Fear to lose control over people is the only reason to fear freedom of religion and having secular governments. God can do just fine on his own. He does not need human rulers sitting on his throne in his place because he is somehow incompetant compared to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PLO Posted February 25, 2006 Author #10 Share Posted February 25, 2006 yes but please ignore superticious beleifs of your own for a moment, Islam see's no reason to seperate its religion from its goverment as muslims beleive their religion is guidance that no system of goverment can replace, why do they need a system of governing when they already have one in the form of submission to god?. This is not the case of christianity, we have abondoned it as doctrine on how to lead our lives, why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
__Kratos__ Posted February 25, 2006 #11 Share Posted February 25, 2006 If christianity failed you somehow im sorry..It hasnt failed me and 2 billion others 2 billion? I think you're a bit off on your numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquatus1 Posted February 25, 2006 #12 Share Posted February 25, 2006 yes but please ignore superticious beleifs of your own for a moment, Islam see's no reason to seperate its religion from its goverment as muslims beleive their religion is guidance that no system of goverment can replace, why do they need a system of governing when they already have one in the form of submission to god?. This is not the case of christianity, we have abondoned it as doctrine on how to lead our lives, why? My guess would be because we were able to realize that there was no such thing as one single doctrine on Christianity, nor has there ever been throughout its history. Similarly, we were also able to realize (at least, our founding father's were), that the use of religious law imbedded into human law inevitably led to corruption of humans, as they inevitably abused the power of the heaven's by proxy. Considering that this is precisely what happened in the past to governments that imbued themselves with Judeo-Christan religious law, and what is currently happening now in governments that imbue Islamic religious law into their system, I cannot see how that makes any one of them either failures as beliefs. As governmental structures, certainly, both fail miserably, but as belief systems, they are really no different than any other variation of their kind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PLO Posted February 25, 2006 Author #13 Share Posted February 25, 2006 well their actually extremely different, essentialy western goverments abandoned it becuase industrialists realised it was a load of nonesense and couldnt really be bothered with ancient superstiscion and mythology, becuase at the end of the day that will not put food on the table. "I cannot see how that makes any one of them either failures as beliefs" i see abandoning ones religion as a failure, compared to countries that still adopt their religion as a rule or law to live by. its shows genuine beleife in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bella-Angelique Posted February 25, 2006 #14 Share Posted February 25, 2006 well their actually extremely different, essentialy western goverments abandoned it becuase industrialists realised it was a load of nonesense and couldnt really be bothered with ancient superstiscion and mythology, becuase at the end of the day that will not put food on the table. "I cannot see how that makes any one of them either failures as beliefs" i see abandoning ones religion as a failure, compared to countries that still adopt their religion as a rule or law to live by. its shows genuine beleife in it. Freedom of religion is not abandoning one's religion. It is not forcing your religion on others or discriminating against those who do not believe as you do. Also your western history is very bad. It predates the industrial age. Google history of Rhode Island as an expample. It began in North American among the first European colonists. Nations that adopt their religion as their law is an oxymoron. Nations do not have religions, people do. But to even say a nation has a religion is to say that citizenship is also membership of a religion, which means that the state is intolerant of people being free to follow their own faith, not that the faith of the leaders is strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glacies Posted February 25, 2006 #15 Share Posted February 25, 2006 (edited) i see abandoning ones religion as a failure, compared to countries that still adopt their religion as a rule or law to live by. its shows genuine beleife in it. or it could show a lack of other options or choices for ways in which the country is run... just my two cents Edited February 25, 2006 by Glacies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saxon Posted February 25, 2006 #16 Share Posted February 25, 2006 religion/government systems usually partake in genocide... it's the ultimate 'if you're not with us, you're against us'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquatus1 Posted February 25, 2006 #17 Share Posted February 25, 2006 well their actually extremely different, essentialy western goverments abandoned it becuase industrialists realised it was a load of nonesense and couldnt really be bothered with ancient superstiscion and mythology, becuase at the end of the day that will not put food on the table. You...believe the founding fathers of the United States were thinking of the industrialists when they wrote up the Bill Of Rights? In all cases, I cannot agree that the western governments abandoned it because they 'couldn't be bothered with ancient superstition'. They may have done so because they realised it was dangerous or impractical, but not because they considered it nonsense. Religious belief, whether correct or not, has immense power, and most certainly cannot be ignored as nonsense (just look at what is happening with cartoons these days). i see abandoning ones religion as a failure, compared to countries that still adopt their religion as a rule or law to live by. its shows genuine beleife in it. You think? I would call the physical enforcement by use of law and force to be a sign of insecurity of religion. Faith in a religion to me would indicate that it does not require legal enforcement in order for the belief to survive. Using the secret police to beat up anyone who expresses a contrary opinion seems more thuggish than faithful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saxon Posted February 25, 2006 #18 Share Posted February 25, 2006 I would call the physical enforcement by use of law and force to be a sign of insecurity of religion. Faith in a religion to me would indicate that it does not require legal enforcement in order for the belief to survive. Using the secret police to beat up anyone who expresses a contrary opinion seems more thuggish than faithful. beat up if you're lucky... the Christian countries went through this, it led to inquisitions, witch burnings, expulsions and sometimes genocide... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5aret Posted February 25, 2006 #19 Share Posted February 25, 2006 (edited) yes but please ignore superticious beleifs of your own for a moment, Islam see's no reason to seperate its religion from its goverment as muslims beleive their religion is guidance that no system of goverment can replace, why do they need a system of governing when they already have one in the form of submission to god?. This is not the case of christianity, we have abondoned it as doctrine on how to lead our lives, why? First of all are you implying that we should set up Christianity as our official religion? That would be in violation of the 1st Amendment. People have the right of freedom of religion, be it Islamic, Christian, or no religion at all. The difference between us and Islam is that Islam is forceful in their religious beliefs. They set up ridged rules for women that dont want it, etc. Oh by the way, Christianity has 2.1 Billion people in it. So yes, it is over 2 billion. If you want proof, go here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity read the first and 2nd paragraphs and http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html Edited February 25, 2006 by 5aret Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Link of Hyrule Posted February 25, 2006 #20 Share Posted February 25, 2006 (edited) Christianity has basicaly failed, Islam hasnt. Why is this? Michael Hart wrote a book, the 100 most influential figures of all time. That was the only criteria - influence. It didn't necessarily have to be good influence, just influence. So, out of all the figures in history, who do you think would come out number 1!!!!!!! You all think I'm going to say Jesus now, don't you! The most influential figure of all time, according to Michael Hart, was Mohammed. Mohammed was followed by Isaac Newton, and close behind him, in position 3 - Jesus. And after hearing his rationale behind choosing Mohammed over Jesus, I agree!!! Why is this, you may be asking. Jesus was way bigger than Mohammed, right? Michael Hart anticipates this, and in his commentary on Jesus, he says (paraphrasing, I don't actually ahve the book here) - The teachings of Jesus do not have the same effect on Christians that the teachings of Mohammed have on Muslims. Hart then goes on to explain that Jesus' primary teaching - Love your neighbour as yourself, is not even put into practice by most Christians. Most Christians admit they should, but the teaching is seen as a lofty goal, an ideal to wait for in future times, but not something feasible today. Jesus' teachings remain an interesting, potentially society changing teaching. And if Christians were to put it into practice, Hart stated he would have no hesitation putting Jesus as the most influential figure of all time. But, since this obviously is not happening, that the teachings of Mohammed actually have an impact in the lives of Muslim's, as opposed to the apathy of many Christians, Mohammed takes top spot. PLO - the reason it seems Christianity has failed, is because most Christians do not actually practice what they preach. They are intolerant, not loving. They preach hate, not Love. Muslim's hold to their religious beliefs - his teachings actually mean something to his followers. If I sound like I'm bagging out Christianity, then you may be right. Christianity is filled with hypocrites, those who say one thing, then turn around and do the exact opposite. Muslim's, at least, take their Faith seriously. Any Christian reading this, I implore you - look at your life. Are you leading a godly, Christ-like life? As long as Christians continue to live in apathy and carelessness, it will always seem as if Christianity has failed. Sorry, I'm rambling Hope I make sense. Regards, PA Edited February 25, 2006 by Paranoid Android Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckys_Mom Posted February 25, 2006 #21 Share Posted February 25, 2006 Sorry, I'm rambling Whats new? LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramster83 Posted February 25, 2006 #22 Share Posted February 25, 2006 PA i agree with you there...yet let it be seen that islam hasnt "passed" its test either. Look at the world at its current state- where is the most restlessness and war? The Middle East. Look at Iraq right now- Muslims are fighting against Muslims...Shiaas and Sinni's. In the time of Eid every year hundreds or sometimes thousands are killed by being trampled to death in festivals. Many muslims say Christians and Jews are going to hell when their book loud and clear states Good Christians and Jews are going up there into heaven with them. Sure Islam holds a lot of pride to its religion and they DO practise it to the core- yet there could be too much of a good thing and in my opinion some Muslims take their religion TOO seriously. Christians barely follow their religion and Muslims take their religion into extreme there needs to be a median somewhere... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Link of Hyrule Posted February 25, 2006 #23 Share Posted February 25, 2006 Ramster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckys_Mom Posted February 25, 2006 #24 Share Posted February 25, 2006 Ramster Is this cuz he agreed with you PA LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Link of Hyrule Posted February 25, 2006 #25 Share Posted February 25, 2006 Is this cuz he agreed with you PA LOL He didn't agree (not totally at least). I thought they were good points that he'd added, specifically about the nuances of the Muslim Faith. Regards, PA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts