ramster83 Posted March 7, 2006 #1 Share Posted March 7, 2006 (edited) Hey everyone this one is more for the athiests but anyone feel free to reply. My question to you is why did you give up your search to find or seek God? I mean...Do you give up your search for love? Did you ever? You don't know that love exists- but you look for it dont you? Everyone talks about "love" all the time? Oh im in "love" with this person- while others have yet to experience it- how do they know what "love" is? How do they know what theyre looking for? Its just one persons interpretation of the word...So ultimately everyones talking about "God"- but an athiest doesnt know what "God" exactly is- So maybe you dont know what you're looking for- but it doesnt mean he doesnt exist. You have to admit everyone is curious about this God character- and well billions of people have supposedly found him. I'm sure before most of you became athiests you were looking for answers- but i bet hundreds of your questions on many topics in every day life are still unanswered...but is giving up really the best option? Did you- as an athiest give yourself enough time and patience to truely forever forget God? My quest for God was a long one- but i found him...or he found me...Whichever the case- do you think that looking for something that may not exist and not finding it- necessarily mean it doesnt exist in the first place? Like my first example..."Love"....We all look for love- but theres no proof that "love" actually exists. What did you do in your quest to find a God (If anything)- and what ultimately led you to your path and do you think you adequately researched "God" to affirm he does not exist? Edited March 7, 2006 by ramster83 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stargazer123 Posted March 7, 2006 #2 Share Posted March 7, 2006 (edited) Hi Ramster I'm not an atheist but I hope you don'tmind my input here. I did search for God long ago in the biblical sense and I didn't find God, just someone's elses idea of God. You brought up the fact that love exists but we cannot see it. People believe in it but there is no proof for it. Atheists believe in love because they have felt it much different than believing in God. BTW: my friend would probably tell you it is simply a chemical reaction. Even though i think differently i wanted to present that. I don't think you can view an atheist as "giving up" because they do not believe. They simply have a different perception than you or I. Would you than ask them to be dishonest with themselves and try to convince themselves that God exists? They might feel the same way as you do in different regards. they might wonder why in the world you chose to believe something that cannot be proven. They might think you chose to give up by putting all your faith in something that isn't tangible in this reality. My own view point is that God exists but God cannot be defined through any book or religion. I think God is everywhere and within and we become a part of that. I searched a long time through books and people and all the while the answers were within and not in words however it was religion that almost made me give up on God believe it or not. I just didn't think the creator was a wrathful jealous deity who burned entire villages with children intact for the sake of punishing the very thing he created in the first place. So it was actually the thought of that kind of God that drove me away. It was what I found in my heart that made me think religion was just that and didn't matter in the scheme of things. Just my thoughts. Edited March 7, 2006 by stargazer123 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sherapy Posted March 7, 2006 #3 Share Posted March 7, 2006 Ramster i'm no longer an atheist, but when i was one, i didn't give up on 'god' , i knew there was no such thing as a vengeful, cruel diety that was so insecure that needed to be validated by his creations...I intuitively knew this absurd..it just seemed obvious to me... I never have figured out why humanity would except this as'god' I knew religion was made up. What is love??? Its whatever you decide it is.......Thats the point of anything you decide what it means to you....or you live through others...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stargazer123 Posted March 7, 2006 #4 Share Posted March 7, 2006 Ramster i'm no longer an atheist, but when i was one, i didn't give up on 'god' , i knew there was no such thing as a vengeful, cruel diety that was so insecure that needed to be validated by his creations...I intuitively knew this absurd..it just seemed obvious to me... I never have figured out why humanity would except this as'god' I knew religion was made up. What is love??? Its whatever you decide it is.......Thats the point of anything you decide what it means to you....or you live through others...... What is love? God I feel all fuzzy now...yes God is love this is what floats my boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramster83 Posted March 7, 2006 Author #5 Share Posted March 7, 2006 Stargazer, Your reply is welcome of course. You brought up the fact that love exists but we cannot see it. People believe in it but there is no proof for it. Atheists believe in love because they have felt it much different than believing in God. I'm not talking about "seeing" though- im talking about "feeling"...People feel that they are in love and its personal- then others want to be "in love" as well- but they dont know what to look for because "love" is different to each person. If an Athiest believes in love- then he or she had to look for it- and find it...What about an athiest that hasnt found love yet? Does that mean he cant believe in it? Or shouldnt? This athiest will look for love- even though he or she doesnt exactly know what they're looking for- their quest is to find it...Then the same may apply for God no? Everyones talking about God- and this great "feeling" in their lives (and im not saying Athiests arent happy, great, fun people) but given the opportunity wouldnt someone want to "feel" God as well? Even if for curiousity? I don't think you can view an atheist as "giving up" because they do not believe. They simply have a different perception than you or I. Would you than ask them to be dishonest with themselves and try to convince themselves that God exists? Oh not at all- i believe its great to have a different perception...Yet i see it as giving up- because as we evolve- we continue to search and grow- things are revealed to us as we mature- if one is to deny say a cure for cancer- who is to say in the future there wont be one? This is looking forward- and not giving up...Why can one not "look forward" to God rather than to just give up the search- as i said most athiests "seeked" God before disbelieving in him. They might wonder why in the world you chose to believe something that cannot be proven. They might think you chose to give up by putting all your faith in something that isn't tangible in this reality. Thats the thing this "reality" is our reality- today as we percieve it. If one is to believe in things we cannot see the reality is we cant see it- so its not "realistic" for it to be real. Yet there are things the human eye cant see that are indeed real- and if these things werent "revealed" (or searched for) then we'd have no idea of this "reality"...Thats the key here- its searching- looking and eventually finding and thats the greatest reality of all. Our minds and expecations are constantly blown away by findings of any sorts- God could be one of these "findings" if one looks- no? I just didn't think the creator was a wrathful jealous deity who burned entire villages with children intact for the sake of punishing the very thing he created in the first place. So it was actually the thought of that kind of God that drove me away. Yeah i hear ya. Thats understandable. Yet this isnt directed to one particular religion just faith in a "God". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sherapy Posted March 7, 2006 #6 Share Posted March 7, 2006 (edited) Ramster you aren't giving up love by being an atheist you are actually opening yourself to love, dude belief in a man made religon is one thing ,man made god but its got very little to do with real life, We are talking conditional love as defined by the bible, that is not love that is fear and you certianly can be in fear many are, but it has nothing to do with love... Love is whole, free unlimited, eternal. it seeks no object of love because iits sufficent unto itself, It says In loving you are free to be who you are and i am free to be who i am,I am not herr to complete you and you aren't here to complete me we are here to enhance the others journey it also heals anything unlike itself, by bringing it into awareness... you don't think your way into love you just are in love .....Its what you are naturally....... Very nice post Star Edited March 7, 2006 by Sheri berri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramster83 Posted March 7, 2006 Author #7 Share Posted March 7, 2006 (edited) Ramster you aren't giving up love by being an atheist you are actually opening yourself to love, dude belief in a man made religon is one thing ,man made god but its got very little to do with real life, We are talking conditional love as defined by the bible, that is not love that is fear and you certianly can be in fear many are, but it has nothing to do with love... Love is whole, free unlimited, eternal. it seeks no object of love because iits sufficent unto itself, It says In loving you are free to be who you are and i am free to be who i am,I am not herr to complete you and you aren't here to complete me we are here to enhance the others journey it also heals anything unlike itself, by bringing it into awareness... you don't think your way into love you just are in love .....Its what you are naturally....... Very nice post Star Im not saying by being an athiest you give up on love- no way...of course athiests know of love- but i was just comparing that Love And God - you both cant see- but you can both "feel" thats the general view of it at least - so how can one be so much more believable than the other? You are talking conditional love defined by the Bible- i wasnt at all...This isnt even about religion Sharri- God needn't have a "religion"- but thats why our responses clash- none of us are actually athiests. Nice response though on the whole feeling of love i agree thats what love should feel like- but i dont know if thats what love actually is- thats exactly the thing there are many interpretations of what "love" is...and theres many interpretations of what "God" is (hence many religions)- but the thing is its just interpretation can we truely know what either is? hence...So we dont really know what God is- but by searching for God one may find him/her it- just like searching for love...one will find love if they seek. Edited March 7, 2006 by ramster83 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stargazer123 Posted March 7, 2006 #8 Share Posted March 7, 2006 (edited) Being in love is different than just feeling love. Love as a whole is felt from a very young age. You feel love for your parents, or animals, or different things and so I think the concept of "being in love" is more plausible for someone that has felt it on the whole. We do evolve and I don't believe that evolvement requires belief in God. I think of Buddha, he evolved and God was never the involvement. I agree that reality is how we percieve it. I do not think personally that this is the true reality. You're right there are things that are real that we cannot see with our eyes and we seek to prove it however no one has proved the existence of God yet so i would imagine in the mind of an atheist that God is not plausible. I am just presenting things from a point of view. My very dear friend is an atheist and we discuss this stuff alot. I don't think he has given up. I think he would accept the possibility of the unknown however he has not felt God as we speak of in his own heart and experience and therefore does not believe. Perhaps an experience would change his mind, God knows I tell him enough of my own and he knows I wouldn't lie but I think it is different to hear it and then experience it for yourself. The funny thing is that many atheists I've known have searched. I think they know scripture and such better than I. I know in my friend's case that he has been subjected to alot of fundamental religion and this is the idea that was instilled and he felt he would rather reject the whole thing than the possibilty of that kind of idea. Perhaps if God was instilled as a loving creator rather than this deity than more atheists would be open to the possibility. I don't know that would be for each atheist to tell you for themselves. Edited March 7, 2006 by stargazer123 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramster83 Posted March 7, 2006 Author #9 Share Posted March 7, 2006 (edited) Oooooh This Tags along another question...If God is love...then if one finds love- is that not enough? Can one just "love" without thinking of God/religion? Many say God is love and i agree- but if he truely is- then if we are ever in "love" we've already felt God...no? Ohh the confusion.. Edited March 7, 2006 by ramster83 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stargazer123 Posted March 7, 2006 #10 Share Posted March 7, 2006 Oooooh This Tags along another question...If God is love...then if one finds love- is that not enough? Can one just "love" without thinking of God/religion? Many say God is love and i agree- but if he truely is- then if we are ever in "love" we've already felt God...no? Ohh the confusion.. Well I believe I have felt God in love but its different for someone that views the two things seperate. I believe I am in God when I have love. I think about this as well. I never felt God in any church truly. However when I drive to work and look up at a blue sky I feel God. When I feel the fresh cut grass beneath my feet I feel God. When I jump out of airplanes like I like to do I definately feel God. I feel God everywhere and in love and that is my perception rather than feeling God through faith. Perception is everything because someone else can look up at the blue sky and not feel God in it as I do. Someone else can go to church and feel God as to where I do not. God is a wide range of concepts but to the non-believer God is not the concept of feeling behind wonder or love....its simply just wonder and love. Perhaps it is hard for me as well to imagine life without the concept of some wonderful wholeness called God but than again to others it is hard to believe I draw God from such things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImOne Posted March 7, 2006 #11 Share Posted March 7, 2006 My love never stops growing. It's not something you find, it's something you do. You are looking at it backwards. I think most athiests were taught to believe in God as children. Something made us question and seek our truth. We discovered religions are false. The Gods of the religious texts simply don't make any sense to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramster83 Posted March 7, 2006 Author #12 Share Posted March 7, 2006 My love never stops growing. It's not something you find, it's something you do. You are looking at it backwards. I think most athiests were taught to believe in God as children. Something made us question and seek our truth. We discovered religions are false. The Gods of the religious texts simply don't make any sense to us. You discovered religions are false...Yet have you discovered God is false? You've only scraped the surface off the true mystery of the "Higher Power"...So was your job really complete? End of story? No God? If one seeks truth- one digs deep- much deeper than "religious texts"...God survives without religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckys_Mom Posted March 7, 2006 #13 Share Posted March 7, 2006 (edited) IMO.......EVERYONE who is ANYONE knows what love is There are diffeerent kinds of love.. My love for God differs from my love from my partner...meaning I am not 'in love with God, but I am with my partner...but I do love God for all that he has done for me and I put my 100% faith and trust into him but I know one thing that is conforting...I don't have to worry if he is going to die and leave me...unlike my partner....but I do worry if he will turn his back on me...heck that's only natural My love for my child is strong...I love her more than life itself...and even if I gave up my belief in God...my love for her or my partner wont die I have learnt from my NB friend Sheri, a few things about the love for a child...and I believe in what Sheri says...I fully intend to show my love to my child every day and unlike my own parents I wont put her down or tell her she can't go for her goals in life...I will be there for her through thick and thin and support her all the way..I wont ever give up on her...now tell me if I was a NB would that mean I don't know what love is??? I read a debate recently by Yel...Does true love exist???..IMO YES IT DOES....for those that say likewise are ones who have never been in love Edited March 7, 2006 by Beckys_Mom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sherapy Posted March 7, 2006 #14 Share Posted March 7, 2006 (edited) Im not saying by being an athiest you give up on love- no way...of course athiests know of love- but i was just comparing that Love And God - you both cant see- but you can both "feel" thats the general view of it at least - so how can one be so much more believable than the other? You are talking conditional love defined by the Bible- i wasnt at all...This isnt even about religion Sharri- God needn't have a "religion"- but thats why our responses clash- none of us are actually athiests. Nice response though on the whole feeling of love i agree thats what love should feel like- but i dont know if thats what love actually is- thats exactly the thing there are many interpretations of what "love" is...and theres many interpretations of what "God" is (hence many religions)- but the thing is its just interpretation can we truely know what either is? hence...So we dont really know what God is- but by searching for God one may find him/her it- just like searching for love...one will find love if they seek. Ramster Athiesm is a religion to some, In order to not beleive in something there must be something you beleive in...Of course you were talking about 'gods' love as defined by the bible, you are wondering how can one know love without the model of the bible and you on a personal level seem to be asking what is love...correct???this is what I'd say Ramster if you are asking what love is then the model you are using may not be serving you, it may limit love, narrow the search just a thought, i'm not the enemy ramster i'm contributing another perspective, you may not like it or agree or care but i felt it is a good question none the less, from one who is questioning which is good....Love is what you are aknowlege it in yourself and you will find it everywhere you look.also the love you give to yourself is the love you will give to all others..including 'god' "question how does one do this when the 'god' they worship deems them unworthy to begin with, its a very powerful message to teach the only worthy being was jesus, i'd say there may be some confusion on the subject of love IMO Namaste Sheri Edited March 7, 2006 by Sheri berri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BazookaTooth Posted March 7, 2006 #15 Share Posted March 7, 2006 (edited) Well I never believed in there being a god ever,so there wasn't a search for me to start.I wasn't going to go looking and praying on something I had zero belief in. Love is a mental and chemical thing so you don't have to seek it,its there if its the right person. Edited March 7, 2006 by BazookaTooth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mako Posted March 7, 2006 #16 Share Posted March 7, 2006 I never gave up my quest...I no longer had to seek, as I had found the Creator that my father and grandfather knew. I can see the love that the Creator has for us in this vast and wonderful universe, in the true free will that he granted us with no "you gotta" strings attatched, and in the conscience he gave us to let us know right from wrong. My Creator does no dictate to me, does not ask for barbaric antique rituals of worship, nor does he weight me down with dogmas and scriptures; He only asks that I follow my conscience and live a life that leaves the world just a little better than before I was born. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sherapy Posted March 7, 2006 #17 Share Posted March 7, 2006 IMO.......EVERYONE who is ANYONE knows what love is There are diffeerent kinds of love.. My love for God differs from my love from my partner...meaning I am not 'in love with God, but I am with my partner...but I do love God for all that he has done for me and I put my 100% faith and trust into him but I know one thing that is conforting...I don't have to worry if he is going to die and leave me...unlike my partner....but I do worry if he will turn his back on me...heck that's only natural My love for my child is strong...I love her more than life itself...and even if I gave up my belief in God...my love for her or my partner wont die I have learnt from my NB friend Sheri, a few things about the love for a child...and I believe in what Sheri says...I fully intend to show my love to my child every day and unlike my own parents I wont put her down or tell her she can't go for her goals in life...I will be there for her through thick and thin and support her all the way..I wont ever give up on her...now tell me if I was a NB would that mean I don't know what love is??? I read a debate recently by Yel...Does true love exist???..IMO YES IT DOES....for those that say likewise are ones who have never been in love If there was a award for the most genuine heart felt posts it would go to you Becs' ma beautiful posting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bella-Angelique Posted March 7, 2006 #18 Share Posted March 7, 2006 My Creator does no dictate to me, does not ask for barbaric antique rituals of worship, nor does he weight me down with dogmas and scriptures; He only asks that I follow my conscience and live a life that leaves the world just a little better than before I was born. You would like the book Moses and the Original Torah by Abba Silver. Maybe you are Abba Silver come back for all I know. You sound enough alike anyway from this paragraph you typed in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capeo Posted March 7, 2006 #19 Share Posted March 7, 2006 For me there was never a search in the first place. I just never saw a cause or a need for there to exist any kind of creator so it never made sense to me. Don't know why. I always just saw beauty in vastly random systems, even as a child. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mako Posted March 7, 2006 #20 Share Posted March 7, 2006 (edited) Maybe you are Abba Silver come back for all I know. You sound enough alike anyway from this paragraph you typed in. I can't take credit for that thought...my Grandfather "pounded' it into my head. Every time I did something wrong, he would make me feel so sorry by asking me if that would be what my legacy would be - wrong-doing; or would I choose to make the world a better place just by having existed. He is also where I got my love of history and archaeology, being a very talented amatuer archaeologist,who worked with the state archaeologist on occassion and was a near expert on the Woodland Indians. Edited March 7, 2006 by mako Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckys_Mom Posted March 7, 2006 #21 Share Posted March 7, 2006 If there was a award for the most genuine heart felt posts it would go to you Becs' ma beautiful posting Why thankyou Sheri...it's nice when someone notices a good post now and then BTW I meant every word of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sherapy Posted March 7, 2006 #22 Share Posted March 7, 2006 Why thankyou Sheri...it's nice when someone notices a good post now and then BTW I meant every word of it i felt that merci beaucoup mon amie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckys_Mom Posted March 7, 2006 #23 Share Posted March 7, 2006 i felt that merci beaucoup mon amie You are living proof that a NB is every bit as loving and you know the meaning of the word LOVE than any other religious person and I would dare say more so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckys_Mom Posted March 7, 2006 #24 Share Posted March 7, 2006 I can't take credit for that thought...my Grandfather "pounded' it into my head. Every time I did something wrong, he would make me feel so sorry by asking me if that would be what my legacy would be - wrong-doing; or would I choose to make the world a better place just by having existed. He is also where I got my love of history and archaeology, being a very talented amatuer archaeologist,who worked with the state archaeologist on occassion and was a near expert on the Woodland Indians. This is the 2nd post I have read about your grandfather..he sounds like he was a very wise man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mako Posted March 7, 2006 #25 Share Posted March 7, 2006 He lived to be 94 and died in 1993 and I still miss him. He was the type of man that loved teaching children. He was a master carpenter and taught all the kids of the neighborhood how to work with wood. He was windy (a southern term that means a spinner of tall tales) and could enthrall you for hours with he tales and true stories from history. I never told the old man how much he meant to me and the last ten years of his life, I was overseas and didn't get to see him. This is my one regret of my life. All my other significant family members I saw before they died (my mother died three days after I saw her), but my "Pop Paw" was in the casket before I got to see him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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